Some alien attacks needs to be nerfed.
GameWarrior2216
Join Date: 2013-01-24 Member: 181883Members
Join Date: 2013-01-24 Member: 181883Members
Spikes and spit needs to be nerfed. The whole concept of Natural Selection is that marines use ranged attacks and aliens use melee. If a marine uses a melee attack, it should be weak and vise versa for the aliens. This doesn't seem to apply to the aliens' ranged attacks though, with the exception of parasite.
I have played a few games where teams spike abuse marines early in a match. As a marine, spike can wear you down fast and most times won't know where it's coming from until it's too late. Here's the problem(besides the damage HUD icons is too thin and small to see, for me atleast), spike shoots too fast. Spike is already weak as is but it shoots almost as fast as the LMG and I bet does more damage in the end. From the sounds of it, and I'm most likely wrong, it seems like spike shoots from 4-6 shots per second. It should be half that. The Lerk is a support class that works by aiding fellow aliens with spores but as of now, a small group of people 2 minutes in the game can annihilate the entire opposing team.
The Gorge is an engineer class by trait meant only to do two things: build and heal. Spit, with 40 damage per attack, can take down a marine pretty fast if at a good distance. Granted, it's no where near as overpowered as spike is but a Gorge is not a fighting class at all and should have the weakest attack of them all. Bring down spit from 40 damage to 15 damage so Gorges should have to fear more for their own lives rather than feeling any form of confidence to fight a marine solo.
Don't get me wrong about my thoughts where you may think I am just mad that other people have abused these attacks solely against me(which they did). I have actually done this myself on others and felt how easy it is to take down the enemy and how other people may like to exploit it. It's not game breaking in anyway, it's just in the wrong hands it could be.
I have played a few games where teams spike abuse marines early in a match. As a marine, spike can wear you down fast and most times won't know where it's coming from until it's too late. Here's the problem(besides the damage HUD icons is too thin and small to see, for me atleast), spike shoots too fast. Spike is already weak as is but it shoots almost as fast as the LMG and I bet does more damage in the end. From the sounds of it, and I'm most likely wrong, it seems like spike shoots from 4-6 shots per second. It should be half that. The Lerk is a support class that works by aiding fellow aliens with spores but as of now, a small group of people 2 minutes in the game can annihilate the entire opposing team.
The Gorge is an engineer class by trait meant only to do two things: build and heal. Spit, with 40 damage per attack, can take down a marine pretty fast if at a good distance. Granted, it's no where near as overpowered as spike is but a Gorge is not a fighting class at all and should have the weakest attack of them all. Bring down spit from 40 damage to 15 damage so Gorges should have to fear more for their own lives rather than feeling any form of confidence to fight a marine solo.
Don't get me wrong about my thoughts where you may think I am just mad that other people have abused these attacks solely against me(which they did). I have actually done this myself on others and felt how easy it is to take down the enemy and how other people may like to exploit it. It's not game breaking in anyway, it's just in the wrong hands it could be.
Comments
Lerk spike I'm no so sure about. The thing with spikes is that the disadvantage doesn't come in plain lower damage, as would be most obvious. Instead it comes in the use of the ability. Flying and spiking at the same time is difficult, and actually removes a lot from your ability to be evasive. If you are always facing the target, you can only fly perpendicular to his location so fast, using strafe, making you an easier target. It also makes you highly inaccurate as you can imagine. Your only alternative is to sit still and spike.
A Lerk that can remain stationery and spike marines is incredibly powerful. Doing that you can get close to 100% accuracy, and in the early game you only need around 3-4 seconds of sustained spiking to kill a marine. However, if you are found while doing this, you will almost certainly die, because the amount of time it takes an LMG to kill a Lerk is well below the compensation latency + average reaction time.
Is this more opinion, than fact?
The whole concept of the Tyranids and the Space Marines is that Space Marines have a God Emperor that should smite anything, but, that doesnt happen...
Spit is easy to dodge. Complaining about Spit at early game is just a sign of not understanding how to properly fight a Gorge that can defend itself now. Learn, adapt.
Spikes DPS is so ridiculously low that any Marine that doesnt know how to spot a Lerk on the wall or Ceiling deserves to be killed. Early game lerks are meant to buy space for aliens while marines get A2/W2.
Marines Ranged Weaponry > Aliens Ranged Weaponry.
*You can't actually dodge spit, you can only move evasively.
Dodging isn't limited to a Damage Mitigation Proc.
Spikes and Lerks are essential.
First off, LMG powers down stationary lerks. Thus they have to move as soon as they are spotted. Spiking while moving is difficult. Can't spot them? It takes some training. I look at where spikes are landing and try to determine the source. With time you'll be able to spot areas that seem off which, lo and behold, is a lerk.
Second, It is a support unit mid to late game. Early game, offensive lerks are essential for filling the void left by waiting for 50 res fades. They are still manageable though. They die easier to LMGs than you to spikes
And moving out of the way of the projectile doesn't ensure it won't hit you
???
Is this more opinion, than fact?
The whole concept of the Tyranids and the Space Marines is that Space Marines have a God Emperor that should smite anything, but, that doesnt happen...
Spit is easy to dodge. Complaining about Spit at early game is just a sign of not understanding how to properly fight a Gorge that can defend itself now. Learn, adapt.
Spikes DPS is so ridiculously low that any Marine that doesnt know how to spot a Lerk on the wall or Ceiling deserves to be killed. Early game lerks are meant to buy space for aliens while marines get A2/W2.
Marines Ranged Weaponry > Aliens Ranged Weaponry.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The common marine has an LMG, pistol, and axe while the common alien is a Skulk with bite and parasite. Which of these attacks are stronger for each race and what type of attacks are they?
...Your point being?
You are assuming this is only from being attacked. I have killed countless marines as a Gorge using spit while alone and like me, they have trouble dodging spit. Not as easy as you put it.
If a Lerk is attacking in a small, cramped space then I agree with you. However, large rooms is a Lerk paradise and harder to spot even if you know in which direction they are attacking from. Also, low DPS? I found from a wiki that spike has a fire delay of ~0.17 seconds with a minimum/maximum of 9/12 damage per attack. That's 45-54/60-72 damage per second and I remind you early marines have 100 health with 30 armor, he will die quick.
My assumption is that you either haven't read my entire post or you haven't played the game.
Two pretty important pieces of information involved in the act of moving your body out of the path of a projectile are not provided to you, namely the position of your body and the position of the projectile. Not having this information makes it pretty difficult to dodge.
The Lerk, in previous incarnations, never had spikes at all. NONE. It was hotly debated giving the Lerk spikes, and frankly I think the Lerk spikes need to have their speed reduced so it's harder to hit moving targets. What is the job of the Lerk, as defined by Charlie? "Lerk - Damage over time support" In weapon description he indicates spores should be used for displacement. The Lerk shouldn't be out sniping players. That's not what he was designed for. While spike can help take out static marine defences from range, the Lerk wasn't designed to be a bird with a sniper rifle.
With the gorge he describes it as a combat engineer. Which means it should be a SUPPORT role. Right now spit is too strong. I'm sure a nerf is on the way, ever die-hard alien supporters agree it's OP.
I don't think those things are that bad either. What is bad is Bilebomb and Spores. Those 2 things are pretty much game changers.
It may be true that it wasn't initially intended but, from my own experiences, Lerks are the most engaging and rewarding class gameplay wise, for both Lerk and Marine. I've never felt hopelessly outmatched by a Lerk, or that it was abundantly powerful, and I've never felt completely invulnerable as a Lerk.
[nonconstructive]
nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooope
[/nonconstructive]
So if the skulk happened to be double the speed it currently is, and did triple the damage, the best course of action would be to simply come up with better strategies?
Why am I saying this? Because a shotgun 1 hit kills skulks in close quarters(lets not mention anything about gorges/lerk/fades in the same situation...), a lerk counters a shotgun marine because of the ranged attack.
You can't have it all, lerk spikes are fine since they require skill to use, so do shotguns. I don't see the problem here.
Utilizing your team is part of Marine balance. This isn't a 1v1 game, try asking for meds/nano shield. Pay close attention to your early game on Marine because that's where you lose most of the time. Practice your aiming, look up tactics, watch videos. "Buff" your strategies and when you kill off Lerks/Fades by yourself you'll realize these things were never an issue in the game, it was you who didn't understand how to counter them. These are moments of growth and you'll realize it more the better you get, at least I did.
So you are saying that if the skulk moved twice as fast and did triple the damage, that UWE's best course of action would be to tell players to play better?
Ehm. Do u have forget the shotgun and the flamethrower? Are those weapons for close combat or not? If u want to change spit/spikes than change shotguns/flamethrower too.
Spit is very strong at the start versus 0/0 marines. The gorge is frankly a better marine than the marine at 0/0. Its more the price of the gorge that should go up than spit being nerfed or it becomes a pointless attack.
Spikes is in a good place. Its a good attack but its on a fairly costly lifeform. If you are going versus even 1 marine using only spikes you are risking death or very low life to kill a base marine. Its good for weakening marines but you cant risk sticking around to finish as you'll be taking damage yourself. For lone marines you probably need to rush in with bite as well if you want to be effective.
Stomp, bile and umbra all strike me as being much more OP. Stomp is an I win button versus stuff that the Onos wins skilllessly and effortlessly anyway.
Bile needs to be good or arcs would go wild but at current base structure and Exo armor levels/ Exo general uselessness i'd say its probably too strong for the price of a gorge.
Umbra at least has a counter but it locks you in to having a bad and expensive weapon which is terrible against lerks or you'll get wrecked. Its far too effective when it cant be burned away. Without a specific counter its like stomp or Onos in general where you realise fighting is so impossible you may as well f4.
But that isn't the case right now is it? I'm not sure why your trying to start an arguement over something that isn't really an issue by using examples that would clearly be an issue and will never be put into the actual game anyways.
Try using common sense.
Try using common sense.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The guy quite blatantly said that nerfing the game doesn't make for fun balance changes, and that people should simply adopt a better strategy to overcome the difficulties. That statement, in its given form, applies to any conceivable situation that could possibly arise in NS2. If you had correct logic, and properly functioning common sense, you would identify that.
If an imbalance exists, then it needs to be addressed by balance changes, which may indeed involve nerfs if necessary. The illogical approach would be to hope that the underpowered team gets better at playing, while the overpowered team gets worse.
None of these ranged attacks are as good as you claim. No lerk using just spikes will ever stand a chance against a decent marine. No gorge stands a chance against a decent marine. These abilities are support abilities at best. Spikes are far better against buildings or used to help you while you are going in for the bites. Hydtas are only good for wasting a clip of my ammo.
If an imbalance exists, then it needs to be addressed by balance changes, which may indeed involve nerfs if necessary. The illogical approach would be to hope that the underpowered team gets better at playing, while the overpowered team gets worse.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No because if we use your example "Skulks move double speed and do triple damage" I can guarantee you that he wouldn't be the only person suggesting that the skulk needs to be nerfed because those changes would be ridiculously over-powered and UWE knows that and would never implement that into their game.
So again, use common sense when making examples.
+1
Especially regarding bilebomb.
Bilebomb OP? Defend more (leaving the base totally undefended is a bad idea), marines should be more observant, (multiple) obs in the right places to see the attack coming (I often evolve to gorge IN the marine base behind a counter or a wall, or even in amongst the foliage in ns2_docking).
If you think it can't be done, you're wrong. It's entirely possible to sneak walk into a marine base without camo and take a risk to gorge up (behind the aforementioned cover) with the shortest distance between you and your target.
So again, use common sense when making examples.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ye, that isn't what he said.
I suggest you put your faith in common sense on the back-burner and become literate.
<!--quoteo(post=2066418:date=Jan 25 2013, 06:41 PM:name=Gorgenapper)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gorgenapper @ Jan 25 2013, 06:41 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2066418"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Bilebomb OP? Defend more (leaving the base totally undefended is a bad idea), marines should be more observant, (multiple) obs in the right places to see the attack coming (I often evolve to gorge IN the marine base behind a counter or a wall, or even in amongst the foliage in ns2_docking).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
A gorge is OP simply from a damage output point of view. UWE never wanted any alien to be self sufficient, or to be able to accomplish its goal without the aid of other lifeforms. It may appear that the gorge is one life form for whome this is more true than any other, but in fact it really isn't. If I want to bile rush a structure in marine base, and there is only one marine their defending, I will destroy whatever my target is (so long as it isn't a power node or a comm chair). The damage output is simply too much at the moment. Sure, the gorge will die, but 10 res for a gorge is nothing, and he can do far more damage.
I think either the damage output needs a slighty nerf (15-20%) or it needs more synergy with other normal attacking lifeforms.
I suggest you put your faith in common sense on the back-burner and become literate.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I will once you stop trolling.