Vortex Targeting
w3st420
Join Date: 2010-07-21 Member: 72615Members
Join Date: 2010-07-21 Member: 72615Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Really guys?</div>Made a quick video illustrating how dumbed down the vortex targeting has become. A player's aim has absolutely nothing to do with what gets Vortexed. Absolutely none.
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xeAUACcclc" target="_blank">Vortex in action</a>
At one point I actually could use vortex through a wall while aiming in the wrong direction. I mean it is getting ridiculous and causing even less of a reason (not that there were many beforehand) to use vortex in any situation. Currently the only thing that determines what if anything gets Vortexed is the vicinity of the object to the player.
We need to either come up with a much much better targeting system, completely change the ability, or scrap it. My suggestion would for it to be a hitscan weapon with the same range as it is now, but will only trigger if you hit something (no more vortexing nothing and waiting for the cool down). Would be much more forgiving and <i>might </i>actually have a use.
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xeAUACcclc" target="_blank">Vortex in action</a>
At one point I actually could use vortex through a wall while aiming in the wrong direction. I mean it is getting ridiculous and causing even less of a reason (not that there were many beforehand) to use vortex in any situation. Currently the only thing that determines what if anything gets Vortexed is the vicinity of the object to the player.
We need to either come up with a much much better targeting system, completely change the ability, or scrap it. My suggestion would for it to be a hitscan weapon with the same range as it is now, but will only trigger if you hit something (no more vortexing nothing and waiting for the cool down). Would be much more forgiving and <i>might </i>actually have a use.
Comments
It did change from what you're aiming at to which ever thing is closest, but it has increased it's usefulness by doing so. Now, you can run past enemies/etc and trigger it. You can use it to hit and run more effectively, against an exo for instance, you can get a few swipes in, trigger it while moving away (and not aiming directly at him) and then vanish around a corner before he has a chance to respond.
I think of it as more of a 'pulse' than an aiming move. Though perhaps shortening the range, and making it vortex anything within said range would work.
Shortening the range even further if this proves to be overpowered.
However, Vortex used to be a plain AOE ability. You would drop it on the ground and things near it would receive the effect. This has been slightly modified in the current version. Now, the fade serves as the "centre" of the vortex AOE, and the number of targets that can be affected has been kept at 1. When using the ability, if the fade is not directly looking at a target, it will vortex whatever target is closest to the centre of the fade. If the fade is looking directly at an in range target, that target will be vortex instead, regardless of what is closest.
This actually adds additional skill, because vortex is inherently not a 360-no-scope aim ability. The primary skill is not aim, just as the primary skill with a skulk is not aim. Instead, this is simply a utility skill, and the primary skill is in its effective use. What the proximity targeting allows a player to do is hit the selected target without having to reduce his speed or move in a direction he doesn't want to, simply by ensuring that the distance between him and his target is the shortest compared to any other targets in the area.
You literally don't aim or have any control besides what is close to you. How does this add skill in any way? Adding skill would be having to aim at the target. Apparently aiming in a skill based game is too difficult, so the attack does it for you. Can't wait for the heat-seeking grenade launcher next.
Vortex is not hard to master because there isn't anything to improve on once you learn how to click a button because that's your skill ceiling for that skill, clicking your mouse. Emergent gameplay eh?
I'm just glad vortex never appears in games... I wonder why.
Vortex is not hard to master because there isn't anything to improve on once you learn how to click a button because that's your skill ceiling for that skill, clicking your mouse. Emergent gameplay eh?
I'm just glad vortex never appears in games... I wonder why.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There is no sense in me arguing with someone who thinks aim is the only conceivable skill in NS2. I think you best take such an attitude back to COD.
* surroundings awareness.
you have to know who and what is where in order for vortex to grab the target you wish for.
* a vanilla marine can 'bait' by being the closer target, instead of your obs for example.
* use of cover.
It opens up a whole new book on tactics on what to do instead of, target & click which is one of the easiest things to do at the range vortex works.
So why don't we see vortex used a lot?
because its still fairly underpowered compared to anything else a fade can do.
Not really, just adds to the utility, by adding an easy-apply function. Making run-by vortexing easier, as far as I can see.
Looks interesting imho, doesn't make vortex appealing yet, but is nice still tho. :p
<!--quoteo(post=2067392:date=Jan 27 2013, 05:08 PM:name=DC_Darkling)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DC_Darkling @ Jan 27 2013, 05:08 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2067392"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Why the op is wrong and it does add skill for both sides:
* surroundings awareness.
you have to know who and what is where in order for vortex to grab the target you wish for.
* a vanilla marine can 'bait' by being the closer target, instead of your obs for example.
* use of cover.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Naaah, all the surroundings awareness you need is "blink into the obs and press vortex", but the marine baiting is a nice addition I admit, since the obs is not the easiest...... ........sorry I just stopped to think if I'd ever see this scenario happen. I suppo..... ......okay chances are slim. Maybe. :3
I think with some tweaks to duration, cost, and weapon swap time vortex might be viable without having to completely rework it's function.
And it doesn't give any advantage to escaping a group as it used to.
And it more often than not gives a free pass to a marine to re group
And it is hardly researched as such
I severely dislike vortex in it's current implementation.
I agree that it is not very useful right now.
If you aren't aiming directly at something, it defaults to what is closest, otherwise it targets whatever you are aiming at that is in range.
I think its a pretty good example of scaffolding working as intended. For your first couple of hours you will aim at everything you want vortexed. Once you may by accident vortex something you weren't aiming at. And then you learn what it can do.
Like a slow trooper only acid rocket.
If you aren't aiming directly at something, it defaults to what is closest, otherwise it targets whatever you are aiming at that is in range.
I think its a pretty good example of scaffolding working as intended. For your first couple of hours you will aim at everything you want vortexed. Once you may by accident vortex something you weren't aiming at. And then you learn what it can do.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Obviously you didn't watch the video.
He aims directly at the command chair... and vortexes the IP behind him. Then he steps a bit closer to the chair and aims directly at the IP and the chair gets vortexed. To me that's pretty conclusive proof that it doesn't target whatever you are aiming at that is in range.
He aims directly at the command chair... and vortexes the IP behind him. Then he steps a bit closer to the chair and aims directly at the IP and the chair gets vortexed. To me that's pretty conclusive proof that it doesn't target whatever you are aiming at that is in range.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, I can't watch the video, region restrictions or something. I did, however, test it for myself yesterday with 3 observatories in a triangle. I'll test it again when I have the chance. I've used vortex quite a lot in combat when you really do have specific targets to hit, and aiming always seems to have done the trick.
mostly because you can't choose your target - e.g. at one point i was trying to vortex an exo, but it kept doing a marine. Obviously as a fade you want to vortex the biggest damage dealer and take out the easy targets first.
another problem is vortex is that it seems like you can't blink or attack for 1 or 1.5 seconds after you drop a vortex. that is just a complete death trap.
so i currently don't actually know what i'd use vortex for, since i can't choose my target, and I can't attack/blink for a second or two.
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i'm still waiting for the vortex to be turned into an ability that you can blink a marine with you to another room