Establishing a Time Limit on activating the concede option
MathewRD1
Join Date: 2013-01-28 Member: 182591Members
Join Date: 2013-01-28 Member: 182591Members
I refuse to play the game anymore. It's not fun at all. Maybe I've had the worst luck in servers, but it's every game now where we either kill one of their hives or command chairs, and the entire enemy team concedes.
It's not even fun anymore.
Games last 15 minutes at tops.
I understand the concede option is there for lengthy games (45 minutes or higher).
But why not set the button to be available at that time?
I cannot play the game otherwise. It's ultimately pointless. We barely even make it to the second or third upgrade before the game is over.
It's not even fun anymore.
Games last 15 minutes at tops.
I understand the concede option is there for lengthy games (45 minutes or higher).
But why not set the button to be available at that time?
I cannot play the game otherwise. It's ultimately pointless. We barely even make it to the second or third upgrade before the game is over.
Comments
Why do you think that's "short"? Sounds about right to me.
People concede because there is no reason to draw out the inevitable. A prolonged, pointless turtle is not fun if it's coming from a point of no return. Longer games are enjoyable when it's a long back and forth between fairly balanced teams. Some of my best memories are 2 hour pub grind fests, but those (and 45 minute matches) are anomalies as opposed to the norm.
If you're marines, control two tech points and 3 resource towers at 10 minutes and you lose your 2nd Comm Chair and can't immediately regain control of that base (or take another alien hive down within a minute), it's game over. Aliens control the map, the techs and can spam Onos eggs. Why draw that out?
Usually that kind of dominance by the opposing team is clear through the whole game. It becomes apparent to the players that not only are they losing, they're going to be continually outplayed by a stronger team.
On the flipside, if you have two tech points, are teched up considerably have a couple JPs or Exos on the field, then that two Hive turtle can be fun. I don't see people conceding there because they still have the tech to make a slow push and maybe change the tide.
The concede is there to offer a cleaner, quicker alternative to recycling, or F4'ing. Not to end longer games, but to end games past the point of no return. This game is very unforgiving and while it may be frustrating to see "oh we voted to concede, we only lost one tech point" it may because the rest of your team is grasping the meta with a bit more clarity. Start viewing Concede-losses as any other loss and move on.
Here's why...
a) It's boring.
b) It's degrading. When the Marines have level 3 upgrades and you just lost your Carapace upgrade, it sucks to get one-shot.
c) People will rage quit. If you're sitting there getting beat on for the next 5-10 minutes people will get annoyed/upset and leave. (Side note: If people do rage-quit, the game could potentially take even longer with the auto-balance feature of not allowing you to respawn).
d) The time spent waiting to lose can be spent playing another match.
e) It's simply not fun.
And I wouldn't mind if it were used in the sense of "There's no hope." But the problem is that too many people are willing to say it's pointless after way too early in the game. They'd lose an upgrade and immediately concede. They'd lose a phase gate and concede.
If people are getting stomped, they need to tough it out and let it happen. Otherwise, nothing was gained from the experience. Yeah, it's a video game, not much is going to be gained regardless. But I don't have ANY feeling of accomplishment when we haven't touched their main base and suddenly, we win. There's no reward, no feeling of success. It's not winning, it's just having the other team quit.
Again, I'm going to point out to you... 30 minute stalemates aren't why the vote concede option exists. It exists to end games at the 13 minute mark that would have dragged onto the 19 minute mark before ending to the clearly dominate team, due to a Marine or Alien turtle.
That is ridiculous. I won't argue that.
That's more reasonable. If your only hope lies on establishing a Phase Gate in Cross roads, you control no other tech point from Sub and Fades are hitting the field, sometimes a lost phase gate position is the game. I don't mean to reference comp play to pub play, but it's a valid comparison and often a forward phase is a team last hope.
It's winning. If you so thoroughly dominated them, they don't want to sit in their base and get smacked around pointlessly for 5 minutes... I can't imagine a more thorough "win" scenario. Sure, you may have fun setting up to siege their hive, shoot it down, go in and destroy life forms... but if they're thoroughly dominated enough to know they aren't going to win that... it's going to be a pointless, time wasting march because it's inevitable. Why not skip the inevitable, get right back to a new game and maybe reset the field for a more balanced match, or a new outcome?
Sometimes people just get beat. This game allows people to end the beating and move onto to a fresh round. I'm sorry you feel as if people are doing it too quickly, but I also feel you aren't grasping the full meta game to the extent some of the other people are. The novelty of turtling a hive or tech point wears very thin as that isn't the point of the game. Concede is a good way around that.
Also, if you are just getting rolled there's really no reason to concede. Conceding should be more to prevent the longer turtles, especially the 30+ minute marine turtles from which they have no hope of coming back short of external circumstances (people joining/leaving in particular).
We still had 2 hives and upgrades, and I played as onos on my way to strike in to the marines mainbase. But apparently no one else in my team notice me trying to take the base down? I don't know what can be done about this, but it is really boring when everyone just gives up when you still can win with the right amount of energy and push!
However...before people NEVER f4ed before. The lack of people understanding when to f4 made games last FAR too long especially when there was team balance enabled. Making a wining team play with 4 players instead of 8 was insane. So simply removing vote concede I don't think is the right option if you force the team balance mechanic on people when the other team f4ed.
Ideally for me you would make the auto balance not kick-in in any F4 situation and you would remove the vote concede feature in a month or so. People will then look for a way to end horrible games and be not as likely to do it since they potentially have to sit out while others play.
If it were up to me, I would let people switch teams whilst already in a team (presuming the target team doesn't have too many players compared to the numbers your team will have once you leave), and remove f4 entirely, leaving ready room only available to connecting players, rounds that have ended, and map changes - although people could always reconnect to effectively f4. 15 minute concede sounds alright though? (even though I'm very much a "play until the fat lady sings" type person) Hell, drop that down to 5 minutes. Plenty of games are decided that quickly, so if it is, then no point making people suffer an extra 10 if they don't want to sit there getting slaughtered while they wait for the inevitable. There needs to be a minimum time limit on concede votes to cut down on abuse while server admins aren't present. But 45 minutes is ridiculous. Aliens could have amassed all their technology well before then, and just be sitting outside the remaining marine base just toying with them. I'd hate to wait till the 45 minute mark to put a stop to that.
If you're looking for a 60+ minutes tower defense fest, either wait for siege mods, or look for another game. That's my suggestion anyway.
P.S. I personally have WAY more fun playing 6 10-minute rounds with a clear win/loss, than one protracted, bloated, 60-minute spamfest without teamwork on either side.
I see marines constantly concede while holding 2 bases, what the fuck, this is/was a core concept of NS, aliens are zerg who constantly need to expand to get stronger and push, marines have the better static game and can turtle or hold and tech up to break the aggression or turn it around. In SC2 you send drop ships and harrass resource lines, NS2 you send 2-3 marines to harrass hive/upgrades/RTs.
There is literally 0 reason to ever concede on 2 bases as marines (fuck even 2 hive aliens), you can armoury up entrances to hold off onos, send out 2-3 man death squads on their RTs/upgrade, shit just killing 2-3 upgrades sets the aliens back 2-3 minutes of res easy, killing off an RT-2 afterwards basically resets any advantage the alien team had outside of pres.
There's a serious lack of 'plays' being made in NS2 because dickheads think you need 3/3 upgrades with 5 exos and 10 seiges to kill a hive when it's possible for 3-4 marines to knife down any hive in about 30 seconds at any stage of the game, serious lack of aggression or game sense on the whole of public servers because rands have no idea what to do or how to do it. Concede only helps these idiots reset rounds endlessly because they didn't get some perfect start, it'd be like forfeiting games in CS because you lost the pistol and save round "FUCK IT WE CANT AWP BY ROUND 4 GG GUYS WE'll NEVER HIT 11 VOTE CONCEDE" would be ridiculed to high heaven.
I thought concede was to be used once it was completely over and the enemy team isn't finishing a round, to break the 1 base turtle on marines basically without looking like a rage quitting faggot in the ready room before everyone else and forcing server auto balance on the winning team. Instead I see concede used endlessly when aliens lose third hive and 1-2 high life forms or people can't be arsed playing another 5 mins into a loss, it's like a never ending Idra ragequit in SC2 where people give up in the middle of a fight for no apparent reason while pretending they knew everything.
If only I hadn't seen this... exact thing essentially happen - when the moral of the team saps and they just roll over ... good times! But yes, concede is used far to early in most cases! Some of the ... if not all the best games I've had are when it all feels like you've lost, and then you take advantage of a mistake succeed in a major play and take some ground back and the game sweeps around to your victory.
(Goes for both CS and NS2)
I'm not a big fan of the 10-15 min games, they are too short and their is still a possibily of making a comeback.
I was in a game the other night as aliens and we were making pretty good progress with two hives already and working on a 3rd vs only 1 CC. Looked like an easy win for aliens and surprised marines didn't concede.
But all of a sudden the marine team got organized and started making entire team shottie rushes to our hives and took them out faster than we could get there. By the time we got to the hive they beaconed back to base and rushed our other hive and proceded to do the same thing. Luckily we were able to regrow another hive but losing two hive in that short amount of time we thought for sure if was over for us.
But we managed to make a comeback and win. Sure the game lasted probably 45-60 min but it was a lot of fun.
So what did you do to fix that? In order to "even" the teams, you have this autoteambalance feature that punishes the winning team if the losers give up, dragging out the game even longer and frustrating the winning team as well.
So what did you do to fix that? You added the concede vote, another mechanic on top of it all without reacting to the root of the problem. Now you have rounds being thrown at the first sight of a loss.
What comes next? Time limits, only to see one team give up at 5 minutes and wait it out for another 10 so they can concede?
Adding more stuff will not solve the inherent problems the game has:
Respawntime is too fast -> Zerging on both sides, killing players is almost meaningless.
Aliens spawn in waves, Marines not -> Causes the egglock frustration and making it way too hard to kill a defended hive without arcs (at least in pubs). Causes skulkrushes to be more effective than they should be (when marines would spawn in waves).
The Khammander does not need his team to expand -> The marines are screwed if they dont hinder alien expansion in the first 5 minutes. If marines start to fight over hives/outposts, they are already losing.
The GL is terribly ineffective at killing structures while doing too much damage to lifeforms.
LMG fire rate is too fast, making the weapon very unforgiveable for newbies - they waste all their bullets into the walls and then get picked off when reloading.