Alien Evolves costing extra pRes depending on abilities
Calego
Join Date: 2013-01-24 Member: 181848Members, NS2 Map Tester
Join Date: 2013-01-24 Member: 181848Members, NS2 Map Tester
Alrighty, since we're all hatin on aliens right now I may have had something of an epiphany, help me out here. I bolded the important bits for those of you like me who don't like reading superposts.
It seems that an agreement has been made that the alien economic model is one of the potential reasons for the perceived unbalances. What would happen if we made it cost more pres to evolve into higher life-forms based on what abilities they have available? The cost increase would be related to how many potential upgrades the life-form can have.
For Example:
Gorge currently costs 10pres to evolve, regardless of whether they have bile bomb or not. What I propose is making the new cost of a gorge 15pres (+50%) after bile bomb has been researched.
+50% because Bile is the only thing a gorge can have in addition to being a gorge.
Lerk, since it can get two further abilities, would increase in increments of 25%. So a lerk with spores would be 30 pres base, 38 (rounded up) pres with spores, and 45 pres with spores and umbra.
Here's a breakdown:
Gorge
base - bile
10 - 15
Lerk
base - spores - umbra + spores
30 - 38 - 45
Fade
base - blink - blink+vortex
50 - 63 - 75
Onos
base - stomp
75 - 113
I've heard that the idea is to have 3 abilities for each at some point, so I'm not sure if the price breakdown would work then.
Idea here is making a more powerful alien more expensive for the individual players.
It could also be that commander dropped eggs are automatically upgraded fully for the base price, to make comm dropped eggs more desirable. I don't know if pre-existing lifeforms automatically receive the upgrades or not, that could be tried either way if this gets enough people to warrant requesting a mod.
It seems that an agreement has been made that the alien economic model is one of the potential reasons for the perceived unbalances. What would happen if we made it cost more pres to evolve into higher life-forms based on what abilities they have available? The cost increase would be related to how many potential upgrades the life-form can have.
For Example:
Gorge currently costs 10pres to evolve, regardless of whether they have bile bomb or not. What I propose is making the new cost of a gorge 15pres (+50%) after bile bomb has been researched.
+50% because Bile is the only thing a gorge can have in addition to being a gorge.
Lerk, since it can get two further abilities, would increase in increments of 25%. So a lerk with spores would be 30 pres base, 38 (rounded up) pres with spores, and 45 pres with spores and umbra.
Here's a breakdown:
Gorge
base - bile
10 - 15
Lerk
base - spores - umbra + spores
30 - 38 - 45
Fade
base - blink - blink+vortex
50 - 63 - 75
Onos
base - stomp
75 - 113
I've heard that the idea is to have 3 abilities for each at some point, so I'm not sure if the price breakdown would work then.
Idea here is making a more powerful alien more expensive for the individual players.
It could also be that commander dropped eggs are automatically upgraded fully for the base price, to make comm dropped eggs more desirable. I don't know if pre-existing lifeforms automatically receive the upgrades or not, that could be tried either way if this gets enough people to warrant requesting a mod.
Comments
Oh, and each weapon upgrade makes shotguns cost 30/40/50 more.
No.
The pricing may need work and lots of playtesting would be required, but I like the general idea.
I agree, it's an interesting idea and I quite enjoy the sound of it. This doesn't necessarily make it the correct solution, but I think it is a proactive idea that deserves to be analyzed.
Gorge
base - lvl 2 (bile)
10 - 15
Lerk
base - spores - umbra
25 - 30 - 35
Fade
base - blink - vortex
40 - 50 - 60
Onos
base - stomp
50 - 75
Perhaps additional waiting time could be added for aliens to "mature" to use their already researched abilities.
For example, after Bile Bomb is researched, existing Gorges gain the ability (like now). But aliens who evolved to Gorge after Bile Bomb is researched will need to wait for some time (to "mature") before they can use Bile Bomb.
Alternatively, aliens who do not wish to wait for maturation can pay a fee (in Personal Res), and extra "egg time" to unlock abilities early.
I think this would help balance strategies such as "rush to marine base as skulks, evolve to gorge, bile base", as well as provide marines longer warning times before fully upgraded Fades and Onos suddenly appear on the field.
So yes, prices definatey would need tweaking.
That's an interesting idea as well. It would tie in to the existing maturation of alien structures and would make sense. This could roll over into commander dropped eggs as well, requiring them to "cook" longer for the end life form to have all of the abilities.
I think most people here would agree that 40 Pres fades and 50Pres onos wouldn't be very good for the marines. That would mean these life forms coming onto the field a few minutes earlier, which would tip the balance even more towards the alien side. Fades without blink can work very well (especially if there are no jetpacks) and stomp is practically never seen in comp play, since onii can dominate matches before there's a chance to research it.
This maturation time for higher-tier abilities sounds nice, though! That would be a good way to cut down on endless bile-bomb suicides without messing with res costs...
Daring to suggest a change which could potentially make it much more interesting. Sure the values posted are off the chart, but properly balanced..
And its not like devs just implement anything we post, so let ppl post. Atleast it was a complete idea.
My apologies for suggesting something that I thought was worth discussing and might potentially lead to a way to get more people to enjoy the game I've invested too many hours of unproductivity enjoying. I had no idea something like this would be so offensive to the awesome community surrounding this amazing game.... Now can we get back to why this is a terrible idea?
I say just make it so you have to purchase abilities to use them a second time round, like 2 pres for leap, 8 for bile, 6 for blink so on so forth. don't overcomplicate the things by having prices go up for lifeforms with ability researching.
See, now that's not a bad idea. Slows down the alien evolution process, while still encouraging early play as higher lifeforms if you wanted.
It also makes sense thematically, as well. Aliens are all about "evolving" and "maturing" over time.
Res cost for carapace, celerity etc was tried and discarded as it did little to solve the life-form/tech explosion. all it did was penalise aliens who died, unlike marines you cant go pick up the dead fade skin of another player (like they do with GL's, FT's,SG's, Welders, Mines) so having aliens pay for abilities in the same way would just penalise the alien team.
You would also need to buff the lifeforms as they would need to be worth the res for what your getting (ie no blink), making the lifeforms cheaper would not solve the tech explosion but bring it on earlier.
I actually think the "gimped" evolves have a better place;
For 20 Res you can get a lerk with lower stats and doesn't get 2nd or 3rd hive abilities.
Or for 30 a fade without blink and a reduced energy pool etc.
This would allow for weakened versions of the aliens to hit the field earlier but not have massive impacts as they would be significantly weaker (ie ~30-50% of full evolve HP and Armour.