I think he means aliens can just harass their way to a victory and they really gain nothing from attacking marines near bases, especially as downed weapons can be grabbed, untill they can roll in on the Onos skill train.
They need to make respawns cost resources for base life forms to make throwing away skulks and base marines a bad idea. Currently throwing away skulks/marines to damage/kill RTs far ourweighs the cost - except because of speed differences and the real lack of spawn in bottlenecks past the super early game on either side aliens can attack 1 rt and die 3 times before marines hit an RT once.
Silence loses all of its benefits once strong battle lines are established, which occurs around the 7 to 8 minute mark. Yay, I'm silent! This is going to help while I have to blink directly into the incoming marine force.
Silence useless at 7 minute mark in game, strong battle lines are the cause.
Blink fade at 7 minutes into game, the strong battle line must be the marine spawn since they obviously never got out of that area?
Silence also only benefits two and a half life forms. The two are skulks and fades, and the half is the lerk. I say half becuase it only benefits a particular kind of lerk, which is the spike hero lerk. This also just happens to be the least beneficial playstyle a lerk can use.
I don't know about you, but I've need sniped quite a few times by silent lerks who wait for an opportune moment to bite me.
I won't go into much more because it's obvious you only play pub games.
Long story short, aliens win through passive play. Shade hive assists in passivity in absolutely no way.
Avoiding marines and going for structures is the very definition of passive play.
Avoiding marines and going for things like RT's is an aggressive play style. The goal isn't to get a large kill count. The goal is to take map control and deny the enemy map control. This in turn lets you get more tech up faster than the opposition (due to RT control) which in turn leads to more map control and eventual victory. (Generally).
By avoiding marines when you don't have to face them and attacking RT's you are in essence denying them map control because they have to run back to defend, or send someone to rebuild. This is why if you watch any scrim or competitive game you never see a team v team fight unless it is for a pivotal position on the map (aka map control), or a main base.
EDIT: Another way to put it would be if 8 skulks base rushed the marine comm chair immediately at the start of the game, is that aggressive or passive?
Your not avoiding confrontation if your hitting res nodes! Your screaming "Here I am! Come and get me!"
And then when the Exo pitches up to defend it, you charge him right?
Oh no, that's right... you run away to attack a res node another day...
Passive play.
What sort of ****** up games do you play in?! Who the hell sends an exo to defend a res tower!
But back to the point. If a marine runs into the hive room, axes an upgrade and runs away is he playing passively?
No you idiot, the upgrade is in an established tech point, that's aggression, lone RT's are just that, alone. Run away whenever marines come to defend them and that's pretty passive. If you asked if hitting an arms lab in their main spawn was aggressive, yes, yes it is.
Running away when a marine comes to defend a RT isn't necessarily passive, it's just playing smart, at least in some cases. Not seeking the RT to harass the marine economy and disrupt their force in other areas of the map in the first place would be passive.
If it wasn't for the potential of getting egglocked in the beginning of a round, then camo would be better than celerity as long as you don't count those people that decide to crawl slowly around the whole map in camo.
It's not about celerity being better than camo or anything (I actually prefer carapace, but both are fine). It's about the fact that if you go shade hive, then get stuck on two hives, you're fucked, because you don't have cara (really dumb, crag hive should be second if you went shade first) or celerity/adren late game, enjoy seeing your onos and fades get shit on.
Its very situational. Shade is still valuable in middle/late-game on open fields. Most people underrated an Onos with silence. Its the way better upgrade to come close to a marine because every marine is prepared where the loud onos is came from and the first shot will disable celerity instantly. Celerity is just usefull to run back to the hive for healing.
For baseatacking I agree that shift/crag is the better choice.
In the end its just bullshit to say" bllaaaa we have lost the game because the first hive was shade/crag/shift ". It doesent matter which hive u choose first, its all about the playerskills and nothing else.
No you idiot, the upgrade is in an established tech point, that's aggression, lone RT's are just that, alone. Run away whenever marines come to defend them and that's pretty passive. If you asked if hitting an arms lab in their main spawn was aggressive, yes, yes it is.
So a marine attacking harvesters is passive? A skulk attacking a currently undefended phase gate in say hub is passive (because it's all alone)? What about hitting an upgrade that's been hidden at a tech point with no hive (I see this quite a lot)?
Maybe we just have wildly different terminology but to me if your moving into the enemy space to attack your being aggressive. Passive play is sitting around defending the land you have and building defense; and in all but the very lowest levels of play that gets you killed!
At any rate we're arguing over meaning here. What you and strofix are arguing for (and what I think everyone mostly agrees with) is that aliens win by doing hit and run attacks on undefended marine positions.
A skulk attacking a PG? No, that's a gateway to a marine, might as well be biting a building through a window that a marine is on the other side of.
The type of passive play you are talking about can't exist in NS2, you can't sit around and literally do nothing. So to divide the two types of play, passive and aggressive, passive has to be the one that avoids the most action.
A skulk attacking a PG? No, that's a gateway to a marine, might as well be biting a building through a window that a marine is on the other side of.
The type of passive play you are talking about can't exist in NS2, you can't sit around and literally do nothing. So to divide the two types of play, passive and aggressive, passive has to be the one that avoids the most action.
Nope, being passive means not doing anything, and I have seen skulks doing this... Especially camo skulks sitting above doorways when there aren't any marines coming that way. THAT is being passive, and it does happen in some games (thankfully not too often!).
I think you're just misunderstanding the precise meanings of 'aggressive' and 'passive.' By definition, an attack is an act of aggression, it's an action (not an inaction) and is therefore not passive. How useful it is, and indeed how risky it is are completely different things. I think the core meaning is the same here, though. Aliens who sit back waiting for the marines to come to them (passive aliens) are almost certainly going to lose. By sitting back and waiting, or only reacting to marines rather than being proactive, the aliens are giving the marines the opportunity to play in the only way that they must play in order to win: ie allowing marines to be aggressive.
Your not avoiding confrontation if your hitting res nodes! Your screaming "Here I am! Come and get me!"
And then when the Exo pitches up to defend it, you charge him right?
Oh no, that's right... you run away to attack a res node another day...
Passive play.
What sort of ****** up games do you play in?! Who the hell sends an exo to defend a res tower!
But back to the point. If a marine runs into the hive room, axes an upgrade and runs away is he playing passively?
No, because a marine can't play passively. What is he going to do when a skulk comes to defend the upgrades? Run away? He isn't actively avoiding conflict, he is actively pursuing a target.
Aliens actively avoid other players in order to target weaker structures like power nodes and comm chairs. If something goes wrong, they simply leave, or they simply die like a gorge. However there is not a situation where they fight back, which means they never become aggressive.
A skulk attacking a PG? No, that's a gateway to a marine, might as well be biting a building through a window that a marine is on the other side of.
So Skulks shouldn't attack phasegates? Or IPs? Or any base with an obs and CC in it? Sometimes getting in a risky place is the best thing to do, you can't always avoid confrontation.
The type of passive play you are talking about can't exist in NS2, you can't sit around and literally do nothing. So to divide the two types of play, passive and aggressive, passive has to be the one that avoids the most action.
It does exist in NS2. I've seen both Aliens and Marines play passively, they normally lose.
I understand what passive means just fine, I'm just redefining it to better suit describing the game.
You don't need to go around redefining standard words to do that. Use the words we already have! In this case your looking for words like "hit and run", "guerilla", or "evasive".
Your not avoiding confrontation if your hitting res nodes! Your screaming "Here I am! Come and get me!"
And then when the Exo pitches up to defend it, you charge him right?
Oh no, that's right... you run away to attack a res node another day...
Passive play.
What sort of ****** up games do you play in?! Who the hell sends an exo to defend a res tower!
But back to the point. If a marine runs into the hive room, axes an upgrade and runs away is he playing passively?
No, because a marine can't play passively. What is he going to do when a skulk comes to defend the upgrades? Run away? He isn't actively avoiding conflict, he is actively pursuing a target.
Aliens actively avoid other players in order to target weaker structures like power nodes and comm chairs. If something goes wrong, they simply leave, or they simply die like a gorge. However there is not a situation where they fight back, which means they never become aggressive.
No his actively harassing a structure, exactly the same as the skulk. And yes, he can run away! I've seen plenty of marines run to an alien structure ax it down and run away, shock horror just like skulks do to marine structures!
But as Roo and I said above, any form of attack is aggressive play. Using the word passive for what your describing is disingenuous, it's aggressive hit and run play. And on that style of play we can agree. Aliens and marines should both be attacking undefended locations to do maximum damage to other team.
No his actively harassing a structure, exactly the same as the skulk. And yes, he can run away! I've seen plenty of marines run to an alien structure ax it down and run away, shock horror just like skulks do to marine structures!
But as Roo and I said above, any form of attack is aggressive play. Using the word passive for what your describing is disingenuous, it's aggressive hit and run play. And on that style of play we can agree. Aliens and marines should both be attacking undefended locations to do maximum damage to other team.
So you can be aggressive in explore mode?
Also, I don't even want to know what servers you have been playing on that makes you think a marine can run away from a skulk. I shudder at the thought, I really do.
This thread lost all usefulness and interest the moment it became about arguing over the meaning of the term "passive".
Terminology arguments are stupid. "We all agree that marines should attack enemy resource towers, but we are locked in verbal combat over whether that's resource destruction or tower destruction. This is important. Our penis size is at stake."
Posted a thread about a goofy match that was fun, and actually good (pub good, if aliens got DC, I think they coulda had it). Came back to find it burning to the ground.
Protip: don't redefine words, you are the only one who knows the definition.
No his actively harassing a structure, exactly the same as the skulk. And yes, he can run away! I've seen plenty of marines run to an alien structure ax it down and run away, shock horror just like skulks do to marine structures!
But as Roo and I said above, any form of attack is aggressive play. Using the word passive for what your describing is disingenuous, it's aggressive hit and run play. And on that style of play we can agree. Aliens and marines should both be attacking undefended locations to do maximum damage to other team.
So you can be aggressive in explore mode?
Also, I don't even want to know what servers you have been playing on that makes you think a marine can run away from a skulk. I shudder at the thought, I really do.
Every single thread about camo winds up +10 pages arguing, and people still got the nerve to claim some tech choice is "absolute no-go".
You play in pub. EVEN IN COMP, no hive tech is a no-go. GIVE ME A BREAK. You can easily go camo and make it work. And it won't suck.
Guys I've been playing with have been trying to mix up our alien strats. Shift/crag first is still preferred but we've pulled off wins with all sort of build orders.
"Fade silence useless after 7min because of static battle lines" -WHAT THE H-......I don't even. Seriously.
Let me break it down for you.
If marine's are sieging your hive, your silence is now absolutely useless.
If you are trying to get marines out of your potential third tech point, where they have a base, your silence is now absolutely useless.
Oh, and past the 7 minute mark, 90% of all encounters are the above two. So yeah, your silence is absolutely useless.
It will help you against exos, but honestly, if you are going up against an exo with shade and crag upgrades, you're going to need more help than that.
Silence and camo are stealth upgrades, of course they blow in a straight up fight. But what about that silence/camo skulk/gorge harassing the marine main? Bile and bite don't have very loud it sounds. I use silence when I'm harassing to keep a low profile and help detect the marine response.
Bottom line shade first is viable, but yes, failing to secure 3 hives leaves you in a much harder position compared to having shift and crags. I like to go for the throat early and good shade play can really work well.
If anything, I would argue that shade 2nd is the worst unless you are holding the third point very tightly. Mid game, the marines probably have obs in both tech points an can afford more scans.
Shade third is simply grabbing the last bit of tech. Still very useful, but not a major risk.
If marine's are sieging your hive, your silence is now absolutely useless.
If you are trying to get marines out of your potential third tech point, where they have a base, your silence is now absolutely useless.
Oh, and past the 7 minute mark, 90% of all encounters are the above two. So yeah, your silence is absolutely useless.
It will help you against exos, but honestly, if you are going up against an exo with shade and crag upgrades, you're going to need more help than that.
Because the fade can't go behind enemy lines? Because the fade can't wreck havoc somewhere else to help the team? He can't pick off reinforcing marines?
If marines are sieging one of your hives and NOBODY goes around them, you're going to lose. You don't beat marines in frontal assaults.
"Fade silence useless after 7min because of static battle lines" -WHAT THE H-......I don't even. Seriously.
Let me break it down for you.
If marine's are sieging your hive, your silence is now absolutely useless.
If you are trying to get marines out of your potential third tech point, where they have a base, your silence is now absolutely useless.
Oh, and past the 7 minute mark, 90% of all encounters are the above two. So yeah, your silence is absolutely useless.
It will help you against exos, but honestly, if you are going up against an exo with shade and crag upgrades, you're going to need more help than that.
It's all about reaction times. Even pro players don't watch their minimaps 100% of the time. If you come up on a marine from behind fast enough with silence then even next to an obs he won't turn around until you've already hit him. Even better, his buddies tend to take even longer to turn around and focus you down as well.
Sieging your hive is even better. Take advantage of that ungodly speed and "sneak" out of the hive in another direction. The marines won't even know you exist let alone where you went thanks to silence. Now you can run up and flank them, again taking advantage of silence and they will never even see you coming.
Sieging your hive is even better. Take advantage of that ungodly speed and "sneak" out of the hive in another direction. The marines won't even know you exist let alone where you went thanks to silence. Now you can run up and flank them, again taking advantage of silence and they will never even see you coming.
Ok, so you're in generator, being sieged from stability, and you are going to "go around". Just a quick trip through maintenance right, down past courtyard, and back around into stability? Well, assuming the hive is still there, you will definitely be able to hit a marine a few times, maybe killing him, and have to blink out within 2-3 seconds, all to ready to make the maintenance trip again.
That's the problem with so many people, and why people think shade is so awesome. You only think about what could be. Just sneak around them, its no problem! Just come up behind them, they will never be looking! You don't think about what is practical. Considering that a fade can stay in combat for a MAXIMUM of 5 seconds, and that is against utterly terrible marines, taking the long way around to engage every time is not an option.
Also, please explain to me how a fade can "go behind enemy lines". Lets ignore the passive/active argument for the time being. At least skulks, gorges and onos can actually do damage to structures that are behind enemy lines. What the hell is a fade going to do there? The fades only role is to attack marines. If you aren't going where the marines are, then you aren't playing fade properly.
Considering the fade is moving at 3 times the speed of a non-celerity skulk for most of that trip, he will spend more time at the hive healing than he will actually moving around behind the marines. And of course it buys you a free kill and a couple extra seconds in combat.
As far as what a fade can do behind the lines, consider that no one should be doing anything alone. What a fade can do and what a gorge can do pales in comparison to what a fade AND gorge can do together. Even so, a lone fade on a phasegate is bad news for the marines. How exactly Silence helps with that depends on the situation, but Celerity and Adrenaline help exactly none at all.
As far as what a fade can do behind the lines, consider that no one should be doing anything alone. What a fade can do and what a gorge can do pales in comparison to what a fade AND gorge can do together. Even so, a lone fade on a phasegate is bad news for the marines. How exactly Silence helps with that depends on the situation, but Celerity and Adrenaline help exactly none at all.
They both get you there faster.
And I wouldn't really bother with adrenaline. 2 hive adrenaline fade is like 2 hive camo fade, except in that case camo may actually be better, because it can at least maybe do something.
As far as what a fade can do behind the lines, consider that no one should be doing anything alone. What a fade can do and what a gorge can do pales in comparison to what a fade AND gorge can do together. Even so, a lone fade on a phasegate is bad news for the marines. How exactly Silence helps with that depends on the situation, but Celerity and Adrenaline help exactly none at all.
They both get you there faster.
And I wouldn't really bother with adrenaline. 2 hive adrenaline fade is like 2 hive camo fade, except in that case camo may actually be better, because it can at least maybe do something.
Nope, neither Celerity nor Adrenaline will get a fade to the front faster. With proper usage of the Shadowstep+jump maneuver you will get to the front exactly as fast without celerity and blink as you would with both of them using blink jumps. Celerity does not affect blink or shadowstep speed, and does not impact your speed using shadowstep jumping, so as a fade you can achieve you're maximum out of combat speed WITHOUT celerity. And of course shadowstep consumes less energy then you regen during its cooldown (during which time you will be maintaining speed through jumping), so adrenaline has no impact here either.
As far as what a fade can do behind the lines, consider that no one should be doing anything alone. What a fade can do and what a gorge can do pales in comparison to what a fade AND gorge can do together. Even so, a lone fade on a phasegate is bad news for the marines. How exactly Silence helps with that depends on the situation, but Celerity and Adrenaline help exactly none at all.
They both get you there faster.
And I wouldn't really bother with adrenaline. 2 hive adrenaline fade is like 2 hive camo fade, except in that case camo may actually be better, because it can at least maybe do something.
Nope, neither Celerity nor Adrenaline will get a fade to the front faster. With proper usage of the Shadowstep+jump maneuver you will get to the front exactly as fast without celerity and blink as you would with both of them using blink jumps. Celerity does not affect blink or shadowstep speed, and does not impact your speed using shadowstep jumping, so as a fade you can achieve you're maximum out of combat speed WITHOUT celerity. And of course shadowstep consumes less energy then you regen during its cooldown (during which time you will be maintaining speed through jumping), so adrenaline has no impact here either.
So you're saying that if we selected a random impartial subject, and asked them to travel from one side of the map to the other, with and without celerity, the celerity time would not be faster?
Are you willing to let your entire argument ride on that assumption?
Comments
What sort of ****** up games do you play in?! Who the hell sends an exo to defend a res tower!
But back to the point. If a marine runs into the hive room, axes an upgrade and runs away is he playing passively?
They need to make respawns cost resources for base life forms to make throwing away skulks and base marines a bad idea. Currently throwing away skulks/marines to damage/kill RTs far ourweighs the cost - except because of speed differences and the real lack of spawn in bottlenecks past the super early game on either side aliens can attack 1 rt and die 3 times before marines hit an RT once.
Silence useless at 7 minute mark in game, strong battle lines are the cause.
Blink fade at 7 minutes into game, the strong battle line must be the marine spawn since they obviously never got out of that area?
I don't know about you, but I've need sniped quite a few times by silent lerks who wait for an opportune moment to bite me.
I won't go into much more because it's obvious you only play pub games.
Avoiding marines and going for things like RT's is an aggressive play style. The goal isn't to get a large kill count. The goal is to take map control and deny the enemy map control. This in turn lets you get more tech up faster than the opposition (due to RT control) which in turn leads to more map control and eventual victory. (Generally).
By avoiding marines when you don't have to face them and attacking RT's you are in essence denying them map control because they have to run back to defend, or send someone to rebuild. This is why if you watch any scrim or competitive game you never see a team v team fight unless it is for a pivotal position on the map (aka map control), or a main base.
EDIT: Another way to put it would be if 8 skulks base rushed the marine comm chair immediately at the start of the game, is that aggressive or passive?
No you idiot, the upgrade is in an established tech point, that's aggression, lone RT's are just that, alone. Run away whenever marines come to defend them and that's pretty passive. If you asked if hitting an arms lab in their main spawn was aggressive, yes, yes it is.
Its very situational. Shade is still valuable in middle/late-game on open fields. Most people underrated an Onos with silence. Its the way better upgrade to come close to a marine because every marine is prepared where the loud onos is came from and the first shot will disable celerity instantly. Celerity is just usefull to run back to the hive for healing.
For baseatacking I agree that shift/crag is the better choice.
In the end its just bullshit to say" bllaaaa we have lost the game because the first hive was shade/crag/shift ". It doesent matter which hive u choose first, its all about the playerskills and nothing else.
So a marine attacking harvesters is passive? A skulk attacking a currently undefended phase gate in say hub is passive (because it's all alone)? What about hitting an upgrade that's been hidden at a tech point with no hive (I see this quite a lot)?
Maybe we just have wildly different terminology but to me if your moving into the enemy space to attack your being aggressive. Passive play is sitting around defending the land you have and building defense; and in all but the very lowest levels of play that gets you killed!
At any rate we're arguing over meaning here. What you and strofix are arguing for (and what I think everyone mostly agrees with) is that aliens win by doing hit and run attacks on undefended marine positions.
The type of passive play you are talking about can't exist in NS2, you can't sit around and literally do nothing. So to divide the two types of play, passive and aggressive, passive has to be the one that avoids the most action.
Nope, being passive means not doing anything, and I have seen skulks doing this... Especially camo skulks sitting above doorways when there aren't any marines coming that way. THAT is being passive, and it does happen in some games (thankfully not too often!).
I think you're just misunderstanding the precise meanings of 'aggressive' and 'passive.' By definition, an attack is an act of aggression, it's an action (not an inaction) and is therefore not passive. How useful it is, and indeed how risky it is are completely different things. I think the core meaning is the same here, though. Aliens who sit back waiting for the marines to come to them (passive aliens) are almost certainly going to lose. By sitting back and waiting, or only reacting to marines rather than being proactive, the aliens are giving the marines the opportunity to play in the only way that they must play in order to win: ie allowing marines to be aggressive.
No, because a marine can't play passively. What is he going to do when a skulk comes to defend the upgrades? Run away? He isn't actively avoiding conflict, he is actively pursuing a target.
Aliens actively avoid other players in order to target weaker structures like power nodes and comm chairs. If something goes wrong, they simply leave, or they simply die like a gorge. However there is not a situation where they fight back, which means they never become aggressive.
"Agree"
"Awesome"
Where's the 'Superiority Complex' button for 80% of strofix's posts?
So Skulks shouldn't attack phasegates? Or IPs? Or any base with an obs and CC in it? Sometimes getting in a risky place is the best thing to do, you can't always avoid confrontation.
It does exist in NS2. I've seen both Aliens and Marines play passively, they normally lose.
You don't need to go around redefining standard words to do that. Use the words we already have! In this case your looking for words like "hit and run", "guerilla", or "evasive".
No his actively harassing a structure, exactly the same as the skulk. And yes, he can run away! I've seen plenty of marines run to an alien structure ax it down and run away, shock horror just like skulks do to marine structures!
But as Roo and I said above, any form of attack is aggressive play. Using the word passive for what your describing is disingenuous, it's aggressive hit and run play. And on that style of play we can agree. Aliens and marines should both be attacking undefended locations to do maximum damage to other team.
So you can be aggressive in explore mode?
Also, I don't even want to know what servers you have been playing on that makes you think a marine can run away from a skulk. I shudder at the thought, I really do.
Terminology arguments are stupid. "We all agree that marines should attack enemy resource towers, but we are locked in verbal combat over whether that's resource destruction or tower destruction. This is important. Our penis size is at stake."
Protip: don't redefine words, you are the only one who knows the definition.
You play in pub. EVEN IN COMP, no hive tech is a no-go. GIVE ME A BREAK. You can easily go camo and make it work. And it won't suck.
"Fade silence useless after 7min because of static battle lines" -WHAT THE H-......I don't even. Seriously.
Explore mode... ok I give up.
Guys I've been playing with have been trying to mix up our alien strats. Shift/crag first is still preferred but we've pulled off wins with all sort of build orders.
Don't try to understand stro's games. They send exos to defend res towers from skulks in his world.
Let me break it down for you.
If marine's are sieging your hive, your silence is now absolutely useless.
If you are trying to get marines out of your potential third tech point, where they have a base, your silence is now absolutely useless.
Oh, and past the 7 minute mark, 90% of all encounters are the above two. So yeah, your silence is absolutely useless.
It will help you against exos, but honestly, if you are going up against an exo with shade and crag upgrades, you're going to need more help than that.
Bottom line shade first is viable, but yes, failing to secure 3 hives leaves you in a much harder position compared to having shift and crags. I like to go for the throat early and good shade play can really work well.
If anything, I would argue that shade 2nd is the worst unless you are holding the third point very tightly. Mid game, the marines probably have obs in both tech points an can afford more scans.
Shade third is simply grabbing the last bit of tech. Still very useful, but not a major risk.
Because the fade can't go behind enemy lines? Because the fade can't wreck havoc somewhere else to help the team? He can't pick off reinforcing marines?
If marines are sieging one of your hives and NOBODY goes around them, you're going to lose. You don't beat marines in frontal assaults.
Whole different tactic.
So if they have 3 tech points, someone screwed up waaay before they build that.
It's all about reaction times. Even pro players don't watch their minimaps 100% of the time. If you come up on a marine from behind fast enough with silence then even next to an obs he won't turn around until you've already hit him. Even better, his buddies tend to take even longer to turn around and focus you down as well.
Sieging your hive is even better. Take advantage of that ungodly speed and "sneak" out of the hive in another direction. The marines won't even know you exist let alone where you went thanks to silence. Now you can run up and flank them, again taking advantage of silence and they will never even see you coming.
Ok, so you're in generator, being sieged from stability, and you are going to "go around". Just a quick trip through maintenance right, down past courtyard, and back around into stability? Well, assuming the hive is still there, you will definitely be able to hit a marine a few times, maybe killing him, and have to blink out within 2-3 seconds, all to ready to make the maintenance trip again.
That's the problem with so many people, and why people think shade is so awesome. You only think about what could be. Just sneak around them, its no problem! Just come up behind them, they will never be looking! You don't think about what is practical. Considering that a fade can stay in combat for a MAXIMUM of 5 seconds, and that is against utterly terrible marines, taking the long way around to engage every time is not an option.
Also, please explain to me how a fade can "go behind enemy lines". Lets ignore the passive/active argument for the time being. At least skulks, gorges and onos can actually do damage to structures that are behind enemy lines. What the hell is a fade going to do there? The fades only role is to attack marines. If you aren't going where the marines are, then you aren't playing fade properly.
As far as what a fade can do behind the lines, consider that no one should be doing anything alone. What a fade can do and what a gorge can do pales in comparison to what a fade AND gorge can do together. Even so, a lone fade on a phasegate is bad news for the marines. How exactly Silence helps with that depends on the situation, but Celerity and Adrenaline help exactly none at all.
They both get you there faster.
And I wouldn't really bother with adrenaline. 2 hive adrenaline fade is like 2 hive camo fade, except in that case camo may actually be better, because it can at least maybe do something.
Nope, neither Celerity nor Adrenaline will get a fade to the front faster. With proper usage of the Shadowstep+jump maneuver you will get to the front exactly as fast without celerity and blink as you would with both of them using blink jumps. Celerity does not affect blink or shadowstep speed, and does not impact your speed using shadowstep jumping, so as a fade you can achieve you're maximum out of combat speed WITHOUT celerity. And of course shadowstep consumes less energy then you regen during its cooldown (during which time you will be maintaining speed through jumping), so adrenaline has no impact here either.
So you're saying that if we selected a random impartial subject, and asked them to travel from one side of the map to the other, with and without celerity, the celerity time would not be faster?
Are you willing to let your entire argument ride on that assumption?