Marines And Bunny Rabbits
Frahg
Join Date: 2002-12-03 Member: 10432Members, Constellation
Join Date: 2002-12-03 Member: 10432Members, Constellation
<div class="IPBDescription">Too much or Fine the Way it is?</div> Marines seem a lot like bunny rabbits to me. Whenever a skulk comes trapzing down the hallway they start bouncing around trying to avoid their prey. Which works surprisingly well because the skulk is forced to look up to hit the marine and before you know it they're watching the ceiling and have lost track of their target. Meanwhile, the marine has continued to fill them full of lead. Also, the bouncing will cause the skulk to run underneath the marine and because the marine has god-like balance he can just run across the back of the skulk without falling over.
To me, marine hopping (not unlike CS) has gotten out of hand. If a marine jumps around they should have their aim go to hell, and they should definately get tired when they jump constantly for a minute straight. Also, if a marine jumps on top of a skulk they should fall down and knock the skulk down with them (you're jumping onto a moving creature and not to ride it either--you'd fall). Jumping over an attacking prey just because your bounding box lets you isn't right at all.
Do you believe that marine hopping has reached an excess? Or do you believe it's fine the way it is? Why?
To me, marine hopping (not unlike CS) has gotten out of hand. If a marine jumps around they should have their aim go to hell, and they should definately get tired when they jump constantly for a minute straight. Also, if a marine jumps on top of a skulk they should fall down and knock the skulk down with them (you're jumping onto a moving creature and not to ride it either--you'd fall). Jumping over an attacking prey just because your bounding box lets you isn't right at all.
Do you believe that marine hopping has reached an excess? Or do you believe it's fine the way it is? Why?
Comments
Poor marines are practically crippled when they try to backpedal.
BlueGhost
Another bug I noticed is that pistols tend to cause aliens to dissipear when killed by them.
Tried reporting this on the bug report forum but the post vanished <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Not necessarily.
The lack of footsteps is because of their slow movement rate, right? I always assumed that, probably because moving in a walk instead of a run kills your footsteps. Now as for a truly "heavy" marine, there's no need for him to make louder footsteps unless he is exerting a greater force on the ground (that force gets converted to sound energy.) F=ma. Acceleration is due to movement speed. As long as the reduction in speed affects force significantly more than the change in mass increases force, there should be no problem in having silent heavy marines.
Eh, it's generally not too much of an issue because those marines are relatively slow anywho. They're not sneaking up on anybody.
IMHO no marine without heavy armor should be able to survive the attack of a skulk in close combat or the skulk combined with the very slow alien respawn will be absolutely useless.
Even if you're moving reeeealy reeeealy slow-like? (And that's the technical description) <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
I agree, it is somewhat strange, I was just trying to validate it somehow...
And you're right, your average heavy marine shouldn't exactly need to play ninja.
The game is FINE it's PERFECT...with the exception of a few things..like fade exploit and blah blah blah
sorry for the **obscenity** reply, i'm not in my best of moods right now...u know that feeling u get where u just dont care and want to kill everybody..or just kill yourself..ya..that's me right now
So basically, you're saying marines should'nt be able to kill skulks unless they had HA and HMG?
Yeah, im sure those "elite" marines that can't even kill a level 1 alien will survive until they get heavy armor and heavy machine guns.
Skulks are fine, Marines are fine, there is no issue here, just a difference in skill.
If you can't kill a marine, then try again, and again, and again until you learn how to kill them.
Not necessarily.
The lack of footsteps is because of their slow movement rate, right? I always assumed that, probably because moving in a walk instead of a run kills your footsteps. Now as for a truly "heavy" marine, there's no need for him to make louder footsteps unless he is exerting a greater force on the ground (that force gets converted to sound energy.) F=ma. Acceleration is due to movement speed. As long as the reduction in speed affects force significantly more than the change in mass increases force, there should be no problem in having silent heavy marines.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You are making some major mistakes in your semi scientific aproach.
First of all the force on the ground you want to convert to "sound energy" is perpendicular to your movement direction. So it in no way affects the force on the ground. The force on the ground is affected by gravity (assuming you are in vacuum acceleration then will be same for ha and la marine, without vacuum ha marine acceleration will be bigger) and height of the foot "falling" down (and the force your leg uses to slow down this downward movement). All these factors (just a little reminder, your movement speed was none of those factors) accelerate your foot towards the ground which results your foot having a certain speed once he hits the ground. Now your a in your formula f=ma is the (negative) acceleration which stops your foot when it hits the ground.
Second of all you fail to recognize that the material the ground and the shoes consist of plays a mayor part in how energy is converted into sound, heat, deformation... With the leather boots of a light armored marine for example most of the energy is converted to deformation and heat and only very few in sound, while the hardened boots of a heavy marine convert quite a big chunk of energy into sound.
In the real world there are ways to evade the bite of oncoming creatures. Throwing up your arm to deflect, kicking, and so on. Since the earliest computer games, characters have had an uncanny ability to jump (think Mario, who has serious air: >three times his own height).
I don't see why NS marines, who can only move, crouch, and jump, should be restricted from jumping. If it helps evade the bite, it is an evasive manouver and in my opinion, a valid one.
So basically, you're saying marines should'nt be able to kill skulks unless they had HA and HMG?
Yeah, im sure those "elite" marines that can't even kill a level 1 alien will survive until they get heavy armor and heavy machine guns.
Skulks are fine, Marines are fine, there is no issue here, just a difference in skill.
If you can't kill a marine, then try again, and again, and again until you learn how to kill them.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think the importaint part in the post you quoted was "CLOSE combat". Same way as no skulk can survive mid to long range combat against a la/lmg marine (simply because he can do no dmg at all over this distance). As long as skulk is trying to get into melee range: marine time, once skulk is in melee range: alien time. Now problem is with the low eye level of the skulks, the messed up hitboxes and bunnyhopping sometimes even in melee range it is marine time. But that is more a problem of fixing hitbox bugs (invincible marine feet) and MAYBE thinking about adding a stamina system rather than a balancing problem.
I just try to imagine a human jumping/duck-jumping to avoid the bite of a dog... Skulks are not as small as a mouse.
I don't see why NS marines, who can only move, crouch, and jump, should be restricted from jumping.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You are equating jumping with bunny-hopping. That's like comparing ringing a doorbell once with ringing the doorbell a hundred times in a row.
Jump/ring once = appropriate action for a situation
That other thing = completely inappropriate and annoying.
Marines should have an Energy bar just like Aliens, and when they jump, it should sap their energy. Jump 10 times in a row, and they lose all their energy and have to walk around at a slow speed for a while. Like how Diablo II handles people who run everywhere all the time.
Perhaps jumping needs a "landing delay", such as the one implemented in CS 1.3 (version number?)? When you land from a jump, you're somewhat stunned for a half-second or so. You can't jump again, and your forward movement is hampered. In addition to effectively nerfing bunny-hopping, it's fairly realistic.
please don't use bunny hopping randomly, its not the jumping backwards thing
its strafing a direction and moving your mouse and repeat, I doubt you've done it before
when a marine jumps and gets bit, they get knocked back about 8 feet allowing for a easy skulk skill
May seem a bit nitpicky, but this just caught my eye. Having played for too much D2 than was healthy for me, I can tell you that you should hardly ever run out of stamina unless you're under level 5 or something. (even if running everywhere constantly)
Anyway, about the whole bunnyhopping thing, I like it. Rewards players with skill and all that. I think it works from a gameplay standpoint, which is the main concern in any mod. I would really begin to hate NS if it put in some lame CS jumping system or a stamina bar.
Have you seen the NS maps? If you have, you would realize that most maps dont *have* any long areas where marines can attack skulks from a distance. How many times has anyone ever killed a skulk before it gets near melee range? I would say, from what i see in most servers, 1 out of 15.
So, by doing this, you would remove any chance of marine survival in the first minutes of the game. Take also into account the HUGE difference in running speed between a skulk and a marine, not to mention marine speed gets HALVED when running backwards. Oh, and don't forget, the often overlooked ability of skulks to climb on walls...
Most skulks take around 2 or maybe 3 seconds at most to close in on its target and attack, good skulks can do it in even less. This is all not taking into account the fact that a good skulk stalks its prey, it hides and then drops on it and attacks after falling right next to it.Do you really think its fair for a marine to have 2 secs chance of killing a skulk and then get ready for their doom?
No, if you ever played against good players you know skulks are a deadly class, of course, as any other weapon, if used correctly.
OMG MUMMY I CANT HIT HIM MAKE HIM STAND STILLL AND UNABLE TO AIM PLEAAAAASEEEE.