Forced Choices
Insidious
Join Date: 2002-11-21 Member: 9553Members
Join Date: 2002-11-21 Member: 9553Members
<div class="IPBDescription">WARNING: Long post</div> My point here is simply to prove that there IS a most effective build order for the Kharaa in terms of upgrades, and that this is limiting our choices. References to abilities will all be for level 3.
With carapace a skulk can take twice as many shots, no matter what. With regeneration a skulk can potentially live forever if they take damage infrequently enough (not likely). What's more likely is it will act as +3 to +6 hit points in your average fight. Not a noticable increase. With redemption a skulk has a chance of escaping a fight, scott free. But redemption rarely triggers in time to save a skulk (and even less likely due to the HalfLife prediction code - sometimes you get teleported back to the hive only to have a hit regester a moment later, killing you in the hive). You are taken out of battle, though, so it doesn't have any real combat potential, only annoyance. It does save resources to not have to upgrade again, though only 2 at a time. At best, redemption MIGHT pay for itself. Going without any upgrades pays for itself every time. In otherwords, at best redemption on a skulk is as good as not taking any upgrades at all (except you gain the annoyance factor).
So, carapace is the only ability worthy of mention for a skulk for the most part as it allows twice the lifespan once the shooting begins.
Celerity gives about a 30% increase in base speed. This is as close to a damage modifier as a skulk gets. You get withen biting distance 30% faster. Assuming that the marines miss in perportion to how fast you move (they do miss faster targets more, but not in any perportion, this is just for convinencies sake), you also gain a 30% longer lifespan (from my experiance, this is definatly a generous estimate). So +30% damage and +30% lifespan makes you about +60% more skulk. Adrenaline has two primary uses for a skulk - more parasite (not especially usefull, except in rare situations, usually against foolish marines or used by a brilliant skulk), or quicker building destruction (not having to stop due to an empty meter, ever). Both benefits are only sometimes usefull, and it'd be safe to say they're less than a 50% improvement even at best. Silence has some potential. Before motion tracking, a silent skulk has a much better chance at having no distance to close, which is a huge offensive benefit (offensive in the smaller scale, as in withen the battle you're fighting, not meaning "while attacking"). It's also a defensive benefit, as many marines aim with their ears when a skulk is running about in their midst. This can throw their aim off significantly in dark or crowded areas. It's very difficult to rate the benefit of silence, but it's anywhere from 0% (they saw you first, anyway) to 200% (you landed two free bites on one of three marines, the other two missed because they couldn't find you by ear [assuming you weren't biting constantly like a fool]). This is a very rough estimate.
So out of movements, celerity is your most reliable upgrade, silence is your most potentially powerful. At best, silence averages out to be as good as carapace (100% average benefit, but it can be totaly useless if you're seen without cover). Silence is rendered nearly useless offensivly (ambushing) by motion tracking, reducing it to half value (motion tracking doesn't work on things in sight, so in a dark/crowded room a skulk is still hard to see, and hearing it matters again).
Cloaking is your most common sensory upgrade. A cloaked alien's main advantage is no closing distance, so quicker kills. You can also use it to extend your life, and attack again if you manage to escape (though if you've manage to get somewhere where you're safe long enough to cloak, you can frequently just keep running, skulks are fast). Used in the right situation, a huge bonus (I'll call it 200% again). But cloaking is of no use when trying to come to the rescue of a resource nozzle or hive that's under attack already. Bonus of 0% now. Averages out to being maybe as usefull as carapace. Motion sensing reduces the usefulness of cloaking, as you'll have to hold still a long time, and a long ways away to not be noticed beforehand. Advanced hivesight is a very dubious advantage. It might help you hit more by making your targets easier to see, but then again it can also obscure them against a background of structures that are also glowing. A small benefit at most. Scent of fear is a usefull ability... but not for skulks. It might warn you of an incoming injured marine, but incoming marines tend to be noisy, anyway. You can just parasite, which makes them visable to everyone. In close combat, a marine isn't likely be injured and survive, either they die, or you die. Scent of fear is more of an upper level ability, best reserved for later.
So at best, cloaking is as good as carapace... if they don't have motion sensing.
Defense chambers are always useful. If you live, and can find one, you're back to full health. If you're fighting near one, it's at LEAST worth +10 health. Structures near them are harder to kill in the short run, and are nearly immune to hit and run style attacks in the long run. Movement chambers serve no purpose without at least two hives. Sensory chambers serve the redundant purpose of keeping an eye out for marines. But that's not a weak point in the alien forces. Scouting is one of the skulks biggest strengths. In addition, marines are generally in static locations, or moving as a group, so you know where the bulk of their forces are at any one time. Not much scouting needed against marines. So once again, only defense chambers serve an important functions in the early game.
So my point should be obvious by now. There's only one logical choice for the first chamber. This leaves you with only one other choice to make (as the third choice is irrelivant, as third hive technology is intentially overpowered, to wrap the game up).
While I obviously am, my point isn't to defend the defense-first build order. I don't like it, to be honest. What I'm really trying to show is that the aliens choices arn't balanced. Sensory chambers are cheaper, but the difference between three sensories and three of anything else is TWELVE. That's not much at all. If you decided to go sensory instead of defense because it's cheaper, congradulations, you've ALMOST saved enough for ONE extra offense chamber.
Defense chambers remain useful the whole game. They're a constant. Even the most radical players never suggest using movement and sensory. The second choice is dictated by the new alien types. Lerks now have ubmra, a high energy draining ability. Movements are best then. Fades are the aliens chance to fight back at range. Adrenaline makes them better to this. Celerity, blink, swipe, and carapace makes for a melee fighter that hits harder than a skulk, moves about as fast, and can take many, many more hits, AND he can teleport. What's sensory have to offer? Cloaking? You need to be attacking third hive at this point. You can't really cloak much on offense. Scent of fear has potential, as it essentially gives you acid rockets that also parasite. But this won't destroy the phase gate or turret factories any sooner. Neither will it stop bullets for you. Its useful, but not nearly so useful as the alternative.
And that's the problem. There is an obvious, distinct best way to build. Everyone that says their isn't is being idealistic. Flexability was one of the ideals in this game, but it isn't there. I think, and I think the developers think, that a variety of selections should be available. But the marines have a counter to two of the best none-defense upgrades (cloaking and silence), and even those are unreliable. The alien's upgrades need to be reworked. I'm not saying carapace needs a nerfing, but if it doesn't, something else needs a buffing. I realize this is a difficult task, to balance so many abilities, but the choices arn't balanced when weighed against each other. If it's ment to be a fixed route, maybe if should be literally fixed. Then the overall balance would benefit, since the aliens would be useing a known build order. But I don't think that's the intention.
With carapace a skulk can take twice as many shots, no matter what. With regeneration a skulk can potentially live forever if they take damage infrequently enough (not likely). What's more likely is it will act as +3 to +6 hit points in your average fight. Not a noticable increase. With redemption a skulk has a chance of escaping a fight, scott free. But redemption rarely triggers in time to save a skulk (and even less likely due to the HalfLife prediction code - sometimes you get teleported back to the hive only to have a hit regester a moment later, killing you in the hive). You are taken out of battle, though, so it doesn't have any real combat potential, only annoyance. It does save resources to not have to upgrade again, though only 2 at a time. At best, redemption MIGHT pay for itself. Going without any upgrades pays for itself every time. In otherwords, at best redemption on a skulk is as good as not taking any upgrades at all (except you gain the annoyance factor).
So, carapace is the only ability worthy of mention for a skulk for the most part as it allows twice the lifespan once the shooting begins.
Celerity gives about a 30% increase in base speed. This is as close to a damage modifier as a skulk gets. You get withen biting distance 30% faster. Assuming that the marines miss in perportion to how fast you move (they do miss faster targets more, but not in any perportion, this is just for convinencies sake), you also gain a 30% longer lifespan (from my experiance, this is definatly a generous estimate). So +30% damage and +30% lifespan makes you about +60% more skulk. Adrenaline has two primary uses for a skulk - more parasite (not especially usefull, except in rare situations, usually against foolish marines or used by a brilliant skulk), or quicker building destruction (not having to stop due to an empty meter, ever). Both benefits are only sometimes usefull, and it'd be safe to say they're less than a 50% improvement even at best. Silence has some potential. Before motion tracking, a silent skulk has a much better chance at having no distance to close, which is a huge offensive benefit (offensive in the smaller scale, as in withen the battle you're fighting, not meaning "while attacking"). It's also a defensive benefit, as many marines aim with their ears when a skulk is running about in their midst. This can throw their aim off significantly in dark or crowded areas. It's very difficult to rate the benefit of silence, but it's anywhere from 0% (they saw you first, anyway) to 200% (you landed two free bites on one of three marines, the other two missed because they couldn't find you by ear [assuming you weren't biting constantly like a fool]). This is a very rough estimate.
So out of movements, celerity is your most reliable upgrade, silence is your most potentially powerful. At best, silence averages out to be as good as carapace (100% average benefit, but it can be totaly useless if you're seen without cover). Silence is rendered nearly useless offensivly (ambushing) by motion tracking, reducing it to half value (motion tracking doesn't work on things in sight, so in a dark/crowded room a skulk is still hard to see, and hearing it matters again).
Cloaking is your most common sensory upgrade. A cloaked alien's main advantage is no closing distance, so quicker kills. You can also use it to extend your life, and attack again if you manage to escape (though if you've manage to get somewhere where you're safe long enough to cloak, you can frequently just keep running, skulks are fast). Used in the right situation, a huge bonus (I'll call it 200% again). But cloaking is of no use when trying to come to the rescue of a resource nozzle or hive that's under attack already. Bonus of 0% now. Averages out to being maybe as usefull as carapace. Motion sensing reduces the usefulness of cloaking, as you'll have to hold still a long time, and a long ways away to not be noticed beforehand. Advanced hivesight is a very dubious advantage. It might help you hit more by making your targets easier to see, but then again it can also obscure them against a background of structures that are also glowing. A small benefit at most. Scent of fear is a usefull ability... but not for skulks. It might warn you of an incoming injured marine, but incoming marines tend to be noisy, anyway. You can just parasite, which makes them visable to everyone. In close combat, a marine isn't likely be injured and survive, either they die, or you die. Scent of fear is more of an upper level ability, best reserved for later.
So at best, cloaking is as good as carapace... if they don't have motion sensing.
Defense chambers are always useful. If you live, and can find one, you're back to full health. If you're fighting near one, it's at LEAST worth +10 health. Structures near them are harder to kill in the short run, and are nearly immune to hit and run style attacks in the long run. Movement chambers serve no purpose without at least two hives. Sensory chambers serve the redundant purpose of keeping an eye out for marines. But that's not a weak point in the alien forces. Scouting is one of the skulks biggest strengths. In addition, marines are generally in static locations, or moving as a group, so you know where the bulk of their forces are at any one time. Not much scouting needed against marines. So once again, only defense chambers serve an important functions in the early game.
So my point should be obvious by now. There's only one logical choice for the first chamber. This leaves you with only one other choice to make (as the third choice is irrelivant, as third hive technology is intentially overpowered, to wrap the game up).
While I obviously am, my point isn't to defend the defense-first build order. I don't like it, to be honest. What I'm really trying to show is that the aliens choices arn't balanced. Sensory chambers are cheaper, but the difference between three sensories and three of anything else is TWELVE. That's not much at all. If you decided to go sensory instead of defense because it's cheaper, congradulations, you've ALMOST saved enough for ONE extra offense chamber.
Defense chambers remain useful the whole game. They're a constant. Even the most radical players never suggest using movement and sensory. The second choice is dictated by the new alien types. Lerks now have ubmra, a high energy draining ability. Movements are best then. Fades are the aliens chance to fight back at range. Adrenaline makes them better to this. Celerity, blink, swipe, and carapace makes for a melee fighter that hits harder than a skulk, moves about as fast, and can take many, many more hits, AND he can teleport. What's sensory have to offer? Cloaking? You need to be attacking third hive at this point. You can't really cloak much on offense. Scent of fear has potential, as it essentially gives you acid rockets that also parasite. But this won't destroy the phase gate or turret factories any sooner. Neither will it stop bullets for you. Its useful, but not nearly so useful as the alternative.
And that's the problem. There is an obvious, distinct best way to build. Everyone that says their isn't is being idealistic. Flexability was one of the ideals in this game, but it isn't there. I think, and I think the developers think, that a variety of selections should be available. But the marines have a counter to two of the best none-defense upgrades (cloaking and silence), and even those are unreliable. The alien's upgrades need to be reworked. I'm not saying carapace needs a nerfing, but if it doesn't, something else needs a buffing. I realize this is a difficult task, to balance so many abilities, but the choices arn't balanced when weighed against each other. If it's ment to be a fixed route, maybe if should be literally fixed. Then the overall balance would benefit, since the aliens would be useing a known build order. But I don't think that's the intention.
Comments
Scent of fear? Free parasiting for any alien type, if it works. I've noticed it's buggy time to time. But who builds sensory chambers at first or even second hives? :/
Cloaking? Good for Fades sitting outside enemy bases, waiting for marines to pop out, but really best for early-game Skulks.
Celerity? Good for when you don't have enough points for Fade and want to rumble a little while you gain more points.
At least it was fun to write <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
But look through a lot of the recent posts and see how many time you see arguments pop up about the effectiveness of the common build order. It's not so much to get devs to pay attention any more, just reason with the idealists that the facts exist. Yes, it's kind of sad and boring that most games must be played with the same order. But the alternative is usually losing, sometimes very quickly.
On the Movement Chamber Functionality During One-Hive Phase
I have to disagree: Movement Chambers can have a purpose even if there is only one Hive. If they are scattered throughout <i>relatively</i> safe but high-Skulk-traffic areas, you have (<b>1</b>) an instant route for marauding Skulks to return and defend the Hive in case attackers assault the hive (room); and you have (<b>2</b>) a way for damaged Skulks to instantaneously reach the Hive for healing, thus serving as a sort of lesser Defense Chamber.
However, I do agree that building the Movement Chamber first is probably less effective than the Defense Chamber.
In the case of <b>1</b>, you might say that Skulks can return to the Hive fairly quickly anyway. Except, of course, when they get lost, in which case one wonders about their effectiveness in the first place (I am, admitedly, a guilty party). Furthermore, if all the Skulks abroad come home (and possibly all die), then the Movement Chambers lose all their effectiveness since no one is abroad to use them.
In the case of <b>2</b>, Defense Chambers would be drastically more effective: the Skulk would not have to travel back to the front lines, the healing effect can be stacked, and other chambers away from the Hive can be healed.
I won't talk about how the Sensory Chamber is largely useless but could be useful if changed slightly, since I'm not sure if that is the aim of this topic.
Faster than the Eye,
Firedrake
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