Marines jump backwards further than skulks forward - fix coming?
Silvereye89
Join Date: 2012-09-02 Member: 157329Members
Join Date: 2012-09-02 Member: 157329Members
Hey guys,
I'd just like to get into this topic caused I was talking to a lot of ppl concerning this issue which occured with the patch 240.
As aliens it has become ridiculously difficult to kill a marine. On the one hand the new hitregistration made it more difficult which now can kill a skulks in the beginning within 1/3 to 1/2 second. And on the other hand - even if you get close enough to a marine and start biting him - he can just do a backward jump and is out of range again. Skulks forward jumps dont go far enough to reach him again. So if u fight a marine who knows this he is constantly jumping backwards and sideways and you'll never hit him.
I'd like to ask if this is really!!! intended so that the team with 1 hit kills (SG, the new Exo) even gets the ability to better evade than aliens or if it is just a bug and will be hotfixed soon.
Thanks in advance.
I'd just like to get into this topic caused I was talking to a lot of ppl concerning this issue which occured with the patch 240.
As aliens it has become ridiculously difficult to kill a marine. On the one hand the new hitregistration made it more difficult which now can kill a skulks in the beginning within 1/3 to 1/2 second. And on the other hand - even if you get close enough to a marine and start biting him - he can just do a backward jump and is out of range again. Skulks forward jumps dont go far enough to reach him again. So if u fight a marine who knows this he is constantly jumping backwards and sideways and you'll never hit him.
I'd like to ask if this is really!!! intended so that the team with 1 hit kills (SG, the new Exo) even gets the ability to better evade than aliens or if it is just a bug and will be hotfixed soon.
Thanks in advance.
Comments
Feels the same to me. . .
Do you jump off walls as a skulk to gain speed?
I'm pretty sure a marine still can't get away even if they drop their guns for that speed bonus
And i don't mean the running speed of rines - which btw. is faster than skulks can move with cele if they drop all weapons. I mean that rines can just outjump you in fights. Aliens have the "disadvantage" of only close combat abilities. They should really win a fight once they reach a rine in close combat. but duo to the evade/jump of rines you'll get out of range very very often again and the new hitregistration of rines make killing the skulk then just easier.
Jumping off walls doesn't help much at the moment due to the friction bug, but also there isn't always a wall nearby! You can get the drop on a marine in an open area from falling from the ceiling, but against marines who jump that initial close combat bonus is quickly negated as they jump away.
I'm happy with marines being able to gun down Skulks easily at range, but Skulks ought to have a good advantage at close combat that can't just be negated by jumping around! Good marines are more agile than aliens right now.
I am wary of the "BLA BLA IS OP" whenever someone can't circumvent it, though, so I am not convinced enough of my suspicion.
It is annoying, though:p
They should either give us the old skulk speed back,or give some early game commander support abilities(i always wondered why marines have ammo and health packs and even nanoarmor,but aliens dont have any good support abilities early game).
Most alien balance nerf in NS2 is unnecessary, except for 1) shotties becoming symmetrical 2) Crags super healing
After watching archea, it confirmed my theory that marines rule NS2 as long they can aim... EXOs / JP / GL / Flamers are all rubbish...
if you played NS1 you know fade had 300HP 200 ARMOR and with weapons 1 and LMG it seriously damn difficult to kill a fade. but in NS2 as long you can AIM, two marines with shotties can easily take down skulks lerks and fades.
The final comparison you draw is unrelated to itself and serves no purpose. A w1 ns1 LMGer =\= 2 ns2 SGers under any circumstance.
You can still gain much speed jumping from walls to anything and back, hopping around and just jumping.
Add jump circling the marine from all directions, including the top and his/her backwards jump will have lost all use.
I have yet to encounter any problem in this build with skulk speed in any way.
Marines don't have to spam jump. They just need to make one or two well timed jumps to give a high percentage chance of juking a skulk. Enough distance is put between the marine and skulk that the marine is guaranteed to win the encounter unless he has terrible aim. And that's considering LMG, let alone shotgun in where buying time for even one extra shot is enough to obliterate any skulk.
Prepatch, good skulks had the reaction speed to keep up with most marine jukes. It was a battle of movement v movement that the skulk would generally win. This patch, with the terrible ground acceleration, marines now have the ability to buy themselves a precious second of time with good strafe jumping. Giving a good marine an extra second to LMG or (god forbid) shotgun you is a massive swing in the marine's favor.
The ground acceleration nerf came in to try to nerf "twitchy" skulks that could dodge more than expected with a-d/a-d strafe. The nerf ended up coming in so hard that it stopped skulks from staying on marines once they had closed distance. Meaning that the nerf went way too far, and at least some of it needs to be dialed back ASAP.
I have found very few marines that could get away from me. There are some who can, but it is very rare. When it happens, it is because I lost track of them as they jumped and didn't follow. When that happens, don't go after the marine. Go off a wall or around a corner. You shouldn't be fighting many marines in the middle of big open rooms anyway. You can use stuff like crates, railings, and marine buildings to gain speed. It doesn't have to be walls.
According to playtesters here, the big nerf is a bug. Strayan even said there is a developer working full time on movement right now. I agree that the skulk could perform a lot better. It seems that UWE agrees. I'm not too worried about it because of this.
The issue is actually that because they made skulks ridiculously easy to hit all of a sudden you can hardly stand still for even a millisecond before you're shot, not to mention this is the first time since I've been playing NS2 (I've done like 300-400 hours or so) where people who aren't ridiculous shots are able to pretty easily shoot me down in mid air, sure you're not moving as fast with the acceleration being what it is but I've found as a marine it's just much easier to hit them now.
I wish they would put back in the old movements and remove glancing bites. It would have the same effect on balance, but wouldn't make skulk gameplay bland / lacking depth. Waiting on the corner of a wall for a marine to enter the room is sometimes a useful strategy, but when it becomes to sole way to kill marines as skulk you run into some gameplay problems. Also the general consensus that I have gathered from people is that the skulk is no longer fun or rewarding to play as.
Marines had the acceleration ramp up removed many many patches ago...the current change has widened the gap between alien and marine to the point that skulks 1 v 1 are at best 50 - 50 once in range.
Now if we dont want to have aliens that "glitch" we may have to consider adding acceleration back onto marine movement to narrow the disparity between the two sides.
BTW a smart marine does not need to spam jump...but use his environment to avoid the slowdown on subsequent jumps.
A ramp, step or wall that you can jump up to removes any slow down...which coupled with the lack of ramp up allows for rapid direction changes that skulks cant keep up with.
Olimpic athletics jump foward harder than jump back ward
Fun fact >> NS2 have Coach mode for Marines
This is nowhere like this now.
That is why you couldnt 1V1 vs a marine in vanilla, you had to play with your teammates and ambush em. Just get with a buddy, stick together, and crush everyone who gets in your sight.
Teamplay is everything
As others have said, wall jumping is now mandatory to close the distance to marines. The ground-friction-bug isn't a real drawback in this regard. But at the point where you have closed the distance this bug really hurts the skulk. Every semi-good marine will try to position himself away from walls. This makes it very frustrating for the skulk.
A solution would be to use a inertia-dependent system instead of a friction one. A skulk should become really fast when he isn't changing directions to hard. Rapid change of direction would cause a slow down. This has to be tweaked very careful to not make it to sluggish. It only needs to be strong enough to prevent glitches in the animations and the a-d-a-d-juking.
This way you can chose to either be fast and predictable or slow but unpredictable. The right combination of both would make a good player.
Maybe it is the wall walk code that is really causing all this fuss? The skulk does feel like it is running in a layer of 'goo' about 6 inches deep on ever surface. Sometimes it feels like you are a little caught up in it when moving off surfaces etc.