If you feel passionately about playing vanilla, pick an official server. Or just find servers you do like and Favorite them. I really don't see the problem.
So we cant play on anything with more than 8v8 then as the UWE servers are only 16 player?
Sorry but the mod removal is a bad move without a solution to allow players to avoid them as others have said.
If ns2 stats and DAK showed up as modded could you simply have not changed the code to say they are not classed as mods?
Med pack spam limit is a good idea and long overdue.
8v8 to 10v10 is the sweet spot for pubbing, any less requires people who aren't idiots/don't team stack, any more and the game becomes a fustercluck.
You guys are doing a great job on all the map changes. I'm still reeling from the recent changes in Mineshaft and Refinery. I keep running into the wall from Conduit to Smelting, for example. Like an idiot.
Don't get me started on Deposit! I walk in there, build up the powernode and Extractor and walk straight back the way I came from. That room screws me over every time.
dePARAJoin Date: 2011-04-29Member: 96321Members, Squad Five Blue
Modded servers are 2nd class ones? Thats interisting.
Servermods expand the features of the game (mapvoting, maps, gametypes..) This is FIRST class, cause people invest time to make the game better.
The ingame spectator system is a good example and its now official in the game.
In the the pre245 serverbrowser you had white modded servers. This wasnt a problem?
These servers had changes to damage, res per kill, etc. and they where flagged as unmodded.
I can setup an "unmodded" instagib-server in around 5 min where you cant buy anything and weapons do 100000 damage.
Im sure many people who only want to play on vanilla servers had modded ones in their favorite list without knowing.
JektJoin Date: 2012-02-05Member: 143714Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow
Pretty silly to add it to the loading screen .. AFTER you have joined the server.
You should be able to right click on a server name in the browser and have standard options like connect, favorite etc but more importantly be able to view players in that server as well as an option to view installed mods without joining.
^This is coming I believe, sad that it wasn't in this patch, if you can already show the information on the loading screen, how hard is it to add a pop up that displays the same info (no seriously, I'm not quite sure).
Like you don't know the 5 - 10 vanilla servers in your region by name now, which you are joining every night. Facepalm for this hyperbole crying. But if the font of scoreboards and the color in the server browser are the biggest problem in NS2, than this game is damn close to be perfect. :P
At least you now know how much weight you can give to some peoples opinions when it comes to important topics.
^This is coming I believe, sad that it wasn't in this patch, if you can already show the information on the loading screen, how hard is it to add a pop up that displays the same info (no seriously, I'm not quite sure).
Yeah just read Max's post, awesome. Looking forward to it. It's annoying though since fsfods menu mod had source browser like functionality 2 years ago : p
Don't understand why people wouldn't want to join a server with ns2stats or DAK for example.
I wouldn't have removed the modded flag without having a system that lets you view mod details before joining a server, but I don't have the data to back up that it is a big deal in the first place.
Our server uses an external non-Lua Auto-Admin anyway, a much more ideal solution for general admin needs in my opinion as it doesn't hit server performance, bugs don't affect normal server activity, the code is independent of errors involved with updates and ingame mods, and more.
I appreciate the attitude toward making the game more mod-friendly. I personally like the idea of being able to have stricter "pure" filters as well.
More patches are always great, but the day the "your powernode is under attack!" commander warning is fixed to be consistent and reliable, the day I will be throwing a party to celebrate.
This is something that bugs me nearly each time I play (as a marine, naturally), as aliens, it brings some really cheap victories.
If you feel passionately about playing vanilla, pick an official server. Or just find servers you do like and Favorite them. I really don't see the problem.
So we cant play on anything with more than 8v8 then as the UWE servers are only 16 player?
Sorry but the mod removal is a bad move without a solution to allow players to avoid them as others have said.
If ns2 stats and DAK showed up as modded could you simply have not changed the code to say they are not classed as mods?
Med pack spam limit is a good idea and long overdue.
8v8 to 10v10 is the sweet spot for pubbing, any less requires people who aren't idiots/don't team stack, any more and the game becomes a fustercluck.
Oh I am sorry I offended your belief as to what the best player count is, shame that the player base seems to disagree given that the number of high pop player servers seems to not only be increasing but is also popular.
I like the higher player count servers as it means I am less likely to have a server die due to 3 or 4 people leaving at the same time.
I should not be forced to randomly join servers in teh hope they might be vanilla.
UWE providing servers is a courtesy and one that is no doubt going to have a shelf life.
Also think it was max who has said they wanted to have higher players number each side playing ns2 than
ns1 but it was the inability to get decent servers to test on.
So NS2 should be played at higher player counts...I can tell you from first hand experience 35 v 35 is a hell of a lot of fun.
Like you don't know the 5 - 10 vanilla servers in your region by name now, which you are joining every night. Facepalm for this hyperbole crying. But if the font of scoreboards and the color in the server browser are the biggest problem in NS2, than this game is damn close to be perfect. :P
At least you now know how much weight you can give to some peoples opinions when it comes to important topics.
Your assuming I pay a lot more attention to things than I do, I dont really care what server I play on I care more about the server size (prefer 24) and it having available slots.
I will play on kiwi, aussie, US or Euro servers and dont have my ping filter set below about 450.
So whilst I will try to play on aussie or kiwi servers initially if they are full/empty I will look elsewhere.
So why should I have to waste time joining servers to discover they are mod'd?
The modded button was originally added in so people could find the modded servers (as that was apparantly the reason no one wanted to play combat....) now we have to remove it so people can find them?
Without extended server details being available this was just a bad move, surely holding this one off another 2 weeks would not have caused any mods to die off.
I like the update, but there are 2 things UWE might rethink:
The informations about VAC can't be read while loading Refinery. The font might be changed to look like the font of the map name.
As soon as I click on the picture of the news (in the main menu) I get the picture itself and no way to get back to the news. ;-)
Additionally I would love to see following feature somewhen: The connections between the phasegates (on the minimap) could show the direction of transportation (with arrows or colors or whatever you like), so it's easier for marines to determine on how often to use a phasegate.
SecurityJoin Date: 2005-01-07Member: 33133Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
edited April 2013
Natural Selection 2 is supposed to be THE most moddable and mod-friendly game. This was long overdue and there is more to be done.
Always remember that without Plugins/Mods, NS1 would not have survived for that long, and its very likely that there wouldn't even be UWE or NS2 today.
If you don't like mods and plugins, NS2 is the wrong game for you.
What this game is missing are anime rifles, pink shotguns and Helly Kitty flamethrowers.
Add all the Quake and UT sound effects you can muster and NS2 is good to go.
You guys are doing a great job on all the map changes. I'm still reeling from the recent changes in Mineshaft and Refinery. I keep running into the wall from Conduit to Smelting, for example. Like an idiot.
You're not the only one. I saw you heading for that wall @ 0:34, Hugh.
Oh I am sorry I offended your belief as to what the best player count is, shame that the player base seems to disagree given that the number of high pop player servers seems to not only be increasing but is also popular.
Just because some people don't realize the problems with high playercounts and enjoy being stuck in a zerg slaughter that removes any tactical element of combats and sneaky harassment doesn't make it any better. Players tend to flock to other players, that's just the way things are.
There are also TF2 servers who allow way more players (32+) than the recommended maximum of Valve (~24). I played those a few times and while it might be fun for some short term mindless spamming, it becomes frustrating very quickly because many gameplay elements fall apart: you can't play Scout anymore because there is just so much random spam that you will quickly die with your tiny health pool. Same as playing Spy becomes nearly impossible (especially if you don't have the Dead Ringer) because there will always be someone respawn and catch you while you try to make an ambush. Being Engineer doesn't really work either because you can't out-repair the massive projectile spam of the enemy, so any Sentry you build will be down before it even gets a kill.
On such large servers, possibly also with instant-respawn mod, does the game basically boil down to Soldiers, Demos, Heavies and Medics throwing themselves at each other. While it may be something that some casual pubbers enjoy, it is clearly breaking a lot of the intended gameplay mechanics by rendering them futile.
Natural Selection 2 is supposed to be THE most moddable and mod-friendly game. This was long overdue and there is more to be done.
Always remember that without Plugins/Mods, NS1 would not have survived for that long, and its very likely that there wouldn't even be UWE or NS2 today.
If you don't like mods and plugins, NS2 is the wrong game for you.
No, if you don't like mods and plugins, modded servers are the wrong game for you.
Natural Selection 2 is supposed to be THE most moddable and mod-friendly game. This was long overdue and there is more to be done.
Always remember that without Plugins/Mods, NS1 would not have survived for that long, and its very likely that there wouldn't even be UWE or NS2 today.
If you don't like mods and plugins, NS2 is the wrong game for you.
The original NS was a mod of the HL engine, what your saying is paramount to all halflife games showing up in a server browser as they are all based on the HL engine.
Being mod friendly is more about the code and the tools, not whether we must put up with no way to distinguish mod'd v not.
The fact UWE plan to later patch in a detailed view of a server shows that they themselves see the lack of ability to distinguish without joining as being a problem.
That is after all what I have said is the issue, they should not have removed the mod filter until they had the detailed view.
Oh I am sorry I offended your belief as to what the best player count is, shame that the player base seems to disagree given that the number of high pop player servers seems to not only be increasing but is also popular.
Just because some people don't realize the problems with high playercounts and enjoy being stuck in a zerg slaughter that removes any tactical element of combats and sneaky harassment doesn't make it any better. Players tend to flock to other players, that's just the way things are.
There are also TF2 servers who allow way more players (32+) than the recommended maximum of Valve (~24). I played those a few times and while it might be fun for some short term mindless spamming, it becomes frustrating very quickly because many gameplay elements fall apart: you can't play Scout anymore because there is just so much random spam that you will quickly die with your tiny health pool. Same as playing Spy becomes nearly impossible (especially if you don't have the Dead Ringer) because there will always be someone respawn and catch you while you try to make an ambush. Being Engineer doesn't really work either because you can't out-repair the massive projectile spam of the enemy, so any Sentry you build will be down before it even gets a kill.
On such large servers, possibly also with instant-respawn mod, does the game basically boil down to Soldiers, Demos, Heavies and Medics throwing themselves at each other. While it may be something that some casual pubbers enjoy, it is clearly breaking a lot of the intended gameplay mechanics by rendering them futile.
I dont believe I have seen anywhere the devs of TF saying they intended the game to be played with higher number counts.
NS2 is intended to be played on much larger player counts than the original was and I have played 35 v 35 and its not simply a zerg rush.
34 LMG's focused on a door make short work of any skulks running through.
I should not have to join a server to discover whether or not its mod'd, being forced to play on UWE official servers (8v8 max (mostly 6v6 as you often have 1-2 in ready room and an empty slot)).
UWE have indicated they plan to have a detailed view accesible in later patches....well this says it all...clearly they agree that its not acceptable.
I just dont understand why they felt it could not wait until both things could happen at once.
I hope removing the yellow mod-color is only the start of the server browser changes related to mods. The inability to filter by mod makes this very annoying. Showing what mods the server is running after you connect is like a slap in the face, especially when you see mods you don't like.
I should not have to join a server to discover whether or not its mod'd, being forced to play on UWE official servers (8v8 max (mostly 6v6 as you often have 1-2 in ready room and an empty slot)).
UWE have indicated they plan to have a detailed view accesible in later patches....well this says it all...clearly they agree that its not acceptable.
I just dont understand why they felt it could not wait until both things could happen at once.
There are also TF2 servers who allow way more players (32+) than the recommended maximum of Valve (~24). I played those a few times and while it might be fun for some short term mindless spamming, it becomes frustrating very quickly because many gameplay elements fall apart: you can't play Scout anymore because there is just so much random spam that you will quickly die with your tiny health pool. Same as playing Spy becomes nearly impossible (especially if you don't have the Dead Ringer) because there will always be someone respawn and catch you while you try to make an ambush. Being Engineer doesn't really work either because you can't out-repair the massive projectile spam of the enemy, so any Sentry you build will be down before it even gets a kill.
On such large servers, possibly also with instant-respawn mod, does the game basically boil down to Soldiers, Demos, Heavies and Medics throwing themselves at each other. While it may be something that some casual pubbers enjoy, it is clearly breaking a lot of the intended gameplay mechanics by rendering them futile.
offtopic here, but I just wanted to point out that your example about TF2 is completely wrong. I used to play TF2 exclusively on a 32 player fast respawn (not instant) server and there were spies/engineers who would be on top of the scoreboard consistently and scouts who would do very well as well, although scouts are more about completing objectives than killing and there were some good scouts who could do both really well even.
They were exploiting, so you guys chose to remove functionality without having a replacement ready to go?
The reason modded servers were stigmatised is because of the plethora of mods available, while some are innocuous like NS2Stats or DAKAdmin kit or the heightened consistency check mod, there are others that change how the game is played(Combat).
Unless the server states in the server name WHAT mod they are running, we are forced to go in blind.
You can filter on Combat or other large game changing mods using the "game" filter in the server browser.
I don't think i ever realized how many "purists" there are, or maybe just that the this effected the purists the most and cause them to come out in mass to post about it.
I bet you can call your balance mod "Admin tools", so even if you see servers in yellow and popup shows servers uses Admin tools, it does not means gameplay is not modded.
NS2 is intended to be played on much larger player counts than the original was and I have played 35 v 35 and its not simply a zerg rush.
34 LMG's focused on a door make short work of any skulks running through.
You are putting too much emphasis into "zerg" just because the game has aliens. In large servers are the marines the ones who are zerging because HP doesn't scale with the playercount and we are playing a ranged vs melee team game.
Just as examples:
If you put 3 Skulks vs 3 marines, the Skulks can dodge the marine bullets or take a few hits and still get through to the marines to take them out.
If you put 10 Skulks vs 10 marines, the marines just need to fire in the general direction of the doorway and will have half the Skulks killed before they even get close.
If you put 3 Skulks vs 3 marines in a Hive attack, those marines can't really sustain fire on the Hive and keep all eggs killed at the same time, giving aliens a chance to respawn and defend.
If you put 10 Skulks vs 10 marines in a Hive attack, you only need a few marine to take care of any eggs popping up and the rest of the team can shoot the Hive down in no time, since the Hive's HP don't scale according to the number of players.
Comments
Don't get me started on Deposit! I walk in there, build up the powernode and Extractor and walk straight back the way I came from. That room screws me over every time.
Servermods expand the features of the game (mapvoting, maps, gametypes..) This is FIRST class, cause people invest time to make the game better.
The ingame spectator system is a good example and its now official in the game.
In the the pre245 serverbrowser you had white modded servers. This wasnt a problem?
These servers had changes to damage, res per kill, etc. and they where flagged as unmodded.
I can setup an "unmodded" instagib-server in around 5 min where you cant buy anything and weapons do 100000 damage.
Im sure many people who only want to play on vanilla servers had modded ones in their favorite list without knowing.
I
You should be able to right click on a server name in the browser and have standard options like connect, favorite etc but more importantly be able to view players in that server as well as an option to view installed mods without joining.
At least you now know how much weight you can give to some peoples opinions when it comes to important topics.
...Yeah ok, that's a good point.
Yeah just read Max's post, awesome. Looking forward to it. It's annoying though since fsfods menu mod had source browser like functionality 2 years ago : p
Don't understand why people wouldn't want to join a server with ns2stats or DAK for example.
Our server uses an external non-Lua Auto-Admin anyway, a much more ideal solution for general admin needs in my opinion as it doesn't hit server performance, bugs don't affect normal server activity, the code is independent of errors involved with updates and ingame mods, and more.
I appreciate the attitude toward making the game more mod-friendly. I personally like the idea of being able to have stricter "pure" filters as well.
This is something that bugs me nearly each time I play (as a marine, naturally), as aliens, it brings some really cheap victories.
I like the higher player count servers as it means I am less likely to have a server die due to 3 or 4 people leaving at the same time.
I should not be forced to randomly join servers in teh hope they might be vanilla.
UWE providing servers is a courtesy and one that is no doubt going to have a shelf life.
Also think it was max who has said they wanted to have higher players number each side playing ns2 than
ns1 but it was the inability to get decent servers to test on.
So NS2 should be played at higher player counts...I can tell you from first hand experience 35 v 35 is a hell of a lot of fun.
Your assuming I pay a lot more attention to things than I do, I dont really care what server I play on I care more about the server size (prefer 24) and it having available slots.
I will play on kiwi, aussie, US or Euro servers and dont have my ping filter set below about 450.
So whilst I will try to play on aussie or kiwi servers initially if they are full/empty I will look elsewhere.
So why should I have to waste time joining servers to discover they are mod'd?
The modded button was originally added in so people could find the modded servers (as that was apparantly the reason no one wanted to play combat....) now we have to remove it so people can find them?
Without extended server details being available this was just a bad move, surely holding this one off another 2 weeks would not have caused any mods to die off.
The informations about VAC can't be read while loading Refinery. The font might be changed to look like the font of the map name.
As soon as I click on the picture of the news (in the main menu) I get the picture itself and no way to get back to the news. ;-)
Additionally I would love to see following feature somewhen: The connections between the phasegates (on the minimap) could show the direction of transportation (with arrows or colors or whatever you like), so it's easier for marines to determine on how often to use a phasegate.
Following mods are vanilla cause they didnt change any value of the game:
ns2stats
Custommaps
Adminmods
In the end im sure, we have 95% vanilla servers, modded or not.
The handfull mods trying to balance stuff are horrible except the one from sewlek.
And as i said before: A server flagged as unmodded can have huge balancechanges.
Always remember that without Plugins/Mods, NS1 would not have survived for that long, and its very likely that there wouldn't even be UWE or NS2 today.
If you don't like mods and plugins, NS2 is the wrong game for you.
Add all the Quake and UT sound effects you can muster and NS2 is good to go.
Not.
You're not the only one. I saw you heading for that wall @ 0:34, Hugh.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&list=UUikjPYSpgq4nhy9THhALSjg&v=lxbt3yy2zIw#t=34s
Just because some people don't realize the problems with high playercounts and enjoy being stuck in a zerg slaughter that removes any tactical element of combats and sneaky harassment doesn't make it any better. Players tend to flock to other players, that's just the way things are.
There are also TF2 servers who allow way more players (32+) than the recommended maximum of Valve (~24). I played those a few times and while it might be fun for some short term mindless spamming, it becomes frustrating very quickly because many gameplay elements fall apart: you can't play Scout anymore because there is just so much random spam that you will quickly die with your tiny health pool. Same as playing Spy becomes nearly impossible (especially if you don't have the Dead Ringer) because there will always be someone respawn and catch you while you try to make an ambush. Being Engineer doesn't really work either because you can't out-repair the massive projectile spam of the enemy, so any Sentry you build will be down before it even gets a kill.
On such large servers, possibly also with instant-respawn mod, does the game basically boil down to Soldiers, Demos, Heavies and Medics throwing themselves at each other. While it may be something that some casual pubbers enjoy, it is clearly breaking a lot of the intended gameplay mechanics by rendering them futile.
No, if you don't like mods and plugins, modded servers are the wrong game for you.
The original NS was a mod of the HL engine, what your saying is paramount to all halflife games showing up in a server browser as they are all based on the HL engine.
Being mod friendly is more about the code and the tools, not whether we must put up with no way to distinguish mod'd v not.
The fact UWE plan to later patch in a detailed view of a server shows that they themselves see the lack of ability to distinguish without joining as being a problem.
That is after all what I have said is the issue, they should not have removed the mod filter until they had the detailed view.
I dont believe I have seen anywhere the devs of TF saying they intended the game to be played with higher number counts.
NS2 is intended to be played on much larger player counts than the original was and I have played 35 v 35 and its not simply a zerg rush.
34 LMG's focused on a door make short work of any skulks running through.
I should not have to join a server to discover whether or not its mod'd, being forced to play on UWE official servers (8v8 max (mostly 6v6 as you often have 1-2 in ready room and an empty slot)).
UWE have indicated they plan to have a detailed view accesible in later patches....well this says it all...clearly they agree that its not acceptable.
I just dont understand why they felt it could not wait until both things could happen at once.
This.
offtopic here, but I just wanted to point out that your example about TF2 is completely wrong. I used to play TF2 exclusively on a 32 player fast respawn (not instant) server and there were spies/engineers who would be on top of the scoreboard consistently and scouts who would do very well as well, although scouts are more about completing objectives than killing and there were some good scouts who could do both really well even.
You are putting too much emphasis into "zerg" just because the game has aliens. In large servers are the marines the ones who are zerging because HP doesn't scale with the playercount and we are playing a ranged vs melee team game.
Just as examples:
If you put 3 Skulks vs 3 marines, the Skulks can dodge the marine bullets or take a few hits and still get through to the marines to take them out.
If you put 10 Skulks vs 10 marines, the marines just need to fire in the general direction of the doorway and will have half the Skulks killed before they even get close.
If you put 3 Skulks vs 3 marines in a Hive attack, those marines can't really sustain fire on the Hive and keep all eggs killed at the same time, giving aliens a chance to respawn and defend.
If you put 10 Skulks vs 10 marines in a Hive attack, you only need a few marine to take care of any eggs popping up and the rest of the team can shoot the Hive down in no time, since the Hive's HP don't scale according to the number of players.
Same goes for the Refinery loading screen.