Netcode renders this game unplayable (the Invisible Tail)
Dr. Rockso
Join Date: 2010-11-20 Member: 75114Members
Join Date: 2010-11-20 Member: 75114Members
I loved NS and I'm falling out of love with NS2...
Since the last update, I was wondering if it was my imagination or what, but I've confirmed on multiple servers and it really is killing my gaming experience. I always thought that the game's netcode could use some improvement and that the game would get better over time, but I'm standing beside myself on how terrible it's gotten.
Aliens: 2/3 of my all deaths as alien are due to latency issues (deaths are in the several hundreds), as I find myself dying behind walls and even rooms away from where marines are shooting at me - it's gotten so bad that even 2 rooms away I'm falling to my death.
Marines: 1/10 pistol rounds actually register on moving targets - I remember when in NS1 it actually worked. This weapon is practically useless, unless your're shooting at an Onos running in a straight line or at stationary sturctures.
After countless hours of gameplay, it feels to me as though the game isn't capable of handling multi-player. Events that happened seconds ago (ie: me flying out of the room seconds before a marine starts to fire upon me) are being fed back to my client incorrectly (ie: I hear the marines begin to shoot after I'm already in a room or two away, I'm flying just fine, and then I die instantly).
This is very disturbing, as the gameplay events that I experience visually and audibly on my client do not match up with consequences and events online, which are fed back to my machine and re-displayed, as it never happened on my end - it's like a double-take or deja vu in which I'm completely fine one second and the next second I'm dead out of nowhere.
It feels as though, when playing as aliens, I have a very long invisible tail that marines can shoot at to kill me, from rooms away and/or behind walls.
My ISP is 15/5mbit FiOS and nearly all of the instances are happening with my ping at a steady 20-40.
If someone can relate or please shed some light on this, it would really relieve the pain and shed some stress.
If someone can relate or please shed some light on this, it would really relieve the pain and shed some stress.
Comments
It is worth noting that I'm playing on the same servers and experiencing markedly terrible gamplay, compared to about more than a week ago (since the last update).
The tail is a very good description, if you leap as skulk it feel very bad.
I have no clue of the spectating is lagging but as i spectate marines they shoot behind the alien and hit it, like you said, they got a tail...also i saw skulks leaping get shot by shotgun before their position.
I totaly agree with you...sadly :-(
Yesterday i had a weird gameplay as marine, there was a phasegate in one room, everytime and yes, it happend everytime i got a lag after i phase to that room, every other room was fine, but moving through phasegate into that room, make my game lag for 2 seconds, if it is not the netcode, what was it then?
The hitreg is really a problem in ns2, hard for me to explain but like Dr.Rockso said, it feels like you have a tail.
It is very noticable if you moving out a vent and back in, if a marine fires, and you see the splatter of your own blood infront, while you already away from that position but you still lost health points.
This makes playing as aliens very difficulty and i don't wonder why many "new" people quit the alien team and play marines most of the time.
Marines don't have that problem.
EDIT: I should be clearer, it does not give an advantage to high pingers with a stable internet connection, no packet loss, and reasonable fps. It DOES help teleporters out a fair bit, but I don't feel it's worth punishing high pingers just because some people lag out (and sometimes, rarely, exploit).
EDIT: By lag out I mean, experience packet loss, latency is simply a delay in which your packets will be seen by the server and vice versa, so YOUR messages, and messages affecting YOU directly are delayed. If packets are LOST then the there is a blind spot, where the player freezes because the server isn't sure if he disconnected, then when the next packet comes through that says "I'm here now" the server updates their position, hence the teleportation.
EDIT2: If it wasn't clear, you can have 300 ping, but if you have no packet loss, your movement will still be fluid, but delayed from what you are seeing on your screen. Eg. you are around a corner, you send the packet to the server saying "I'm moving a tiny bit around the corner now" the server receives it later, sends out the new information to everybody else at their latency delay. They see you around the corner now, but on your screen, you've moved on now, repeat. High latency just means there's a delay.
EDIT3: The reason high ping is related to teleporting is because if you are located close to the server, and generally would get 50 ping, but your net is acting up, and you're getting 300 ping, odds are you're experiencing more than a delay and there's packet loss involved. If however the high pinger is a foreigner, their net could be perfectly fine and their latency is normal, no packet loss.
Also I would accept an auto kicker for people that are experiencing >25% packet loss for more than 2 minutes. I feel this would be fair.
tickrate of 30.
no choke.
Most of the times when you die in weird places, server has either one or both.
It feels as though I'm playing a game hosted on high-ping player's computers in which their actions are the end-all and my gameplay actions don't really matter.
Sometimes it feels as though being a part of the game doesn't really make a difference at all.... so why would I bother playing this game any longer?
(It's tough as I've purchased 8 copies, even pre-order before it hit steam, and gave the rest out to friends to get this game going, because I loved NS1 so much. It's difficult to get my friends to play and to convince more people to get in the game when I find it difficult to find a reason to play myself. I want to love this game and it has so many good things going for it, but just this one problem kills totally hampers my enthusiasm.)
I've tested this multiple times and it doesn't matter that they don't even have any weapons upgrades - which makes this even worse, as I could understand if maybe a couple of shots were critial. They are able to get their entire clip into me in a split second - I hear the initial firing and the end of the clip in the 'double-take', so I know that on their client-end they are watching me as if I'm still in one spot and shooting their entire clip into me.
I didn't mention this part, but it's extremely problematic and aggravating. Like I also mentioned, it feels like I'm playing a game hosted on high-ping player's computers. Despite the fact that I made it out even before they had a chance to shoot at me, they are somehow (on the high-ping player's client-side) able to get their whole rifle clip into my in the matter of a split second.
I'm not here to complain about crappy game skills, believe me. I can hear the sped-up sound of their clip going off when I die behind walls, so I have a very strong feeling that, on their client-end, they are able to get their whole clip off in real time and (as they are 'behind' on whats actually happening on the server) the server tries to mediate between good and bad data, only to give the advantage to the high-ping players. They are able to upload their already invalid and inundated data to the server, which incorrectly 'OK's old time-sensitive data over new and correct data - so this is very much an issue with netcode.
To quote Fudo:
I've played many multiplayer FPS games, and I can't recall ever having a problem as bad as with NS2.
However, we're talking about 250-300 ping here, that's 0.3 seconds, hardly the same thing.
In any Real-Time Strategy and Multiplayer game, this if by far THE most important issue.
As price mentions, this is fundamentally a problem for the aliens, as marines don't rely on speed or move nearly as fast (assuming they have their damage-dealing weapons on them). I can't imagine the marines having an issue with this at all, aside from the fact that it brings on an atrocious lack of hit registration.
Also, I understand what you are saying, I really do, it sucks to die when you feel you have out played your opponent. But look at it this way, instead of playing by trying to pull off moves by the skin of your teeth, instead be smarter, don't let them get the opportunity to get those quick shots on you in the first place. Don't peak corners you know marines are probably looking at (AT LEAST NOT FROM THE FLOOR), don't walk directly under doorways without looking up, EVALUATE YOUR ESCAPE before engaging as a higher life form.
I'm not saying the system is perfect as it is, I'm simply saying that this is what you can do to work with it rather than have it work against you.
We're just stating the facts - the fact that 'something' is happening before or after you are even aware of it presents a major problem. This is a Real-Time Strategy game, not past, not future, but current.
It is important to note that what Fudo says is true - you just have to keep moving, as there is inconsistency with what is happening on the server and what appears in-game, client-side.
(Apologies for the incorrect display of quotes - aside from making another double post - the quoting system seems to be broken on this board
Just like the full clip in a split second, the 'several bites' in a single bite problem is very much there.
It happens far less often, though it is still a problem, when playing as marines - as marines are able to engage targets from a distance the majority of the time.
It is worth noting that this affects marines just as well, though its far less noticeable with, say, a 50-round clip: even if 10 bullets register, 1 out of every 5 bullets, that's still +20% hits
Compared to aliens as, say skulk, that same +20% is 1 out of every 5 bites... a bite or two that do not register consecutively is negative 100-200% registration.