I really appreciate all the input from you guys, but I fear the topic has been hijacked beyond recognition.
One guy comes in and tells me about a plugin to ban players, another says cheating is barely a problem, one complains ns2bans doesn't work. Upon my request, the plugin guy explains the hassle of submitting a report. The playtester tells me there arent't any bugs worth reporting anymore, finally, some guy says Valve uses bug and cheating reports just for statistics, they don't actually use the information or do anything about it (I'm guessing that person works at Valve? Yeah, probably not).
ma$$a$$ter, the ns2bans plugin seems like an interesting jab at the problem of cheating, and I really, sincerely, applaud the effort. I just can't applaud the effort it takes to actually report the cheater.
If the cheating evidence can be provided by the server itself, wouldn't it make more sense to have a plugin or builtin functionality that uses that evidence? Why burden players to make a video of it, and burden even more people with a voting process?
If the game could let regular players report cheaters, and the report itself would include information about the player's behavior, maybe even a replay (not sure if NS2 provides replay functionality, but just information that could help reconstruct the events of the game or those surrounding the player would suffice), and player stats, his ID, etc. that would seriously streamline the handling of the problem.
I didn't mean "cheaters ruin the game for me" in reference to NS2, just talking about particular games where a cheater joins, and ruins the game for everybody currently on the server. Relying on admins, plugins, making videos, etc. seems too much of a hassle compared to just sending a report in-game. Think about it, the problem with cheaters is that they ruin the fun for all the people they run into. Let's not make it any less fun to deal with them then it already is.
This is likely not a big problem for the entire community, but it is a problem for those who have to deal with a cheater. Still, TF2 has a solution that I like very much. I just wanted to bring that to the attention of the NS2 community.
Some guy says Valve uses bug and cheating reports just for statistics, they don't actually use the information or do anything about it (I'm guessing that person works at Valve? Yeah, probably not).
This is likely not a big problem for the entire community, but it is a problem for those who have to deal with a cheater. Still, TF2 has a solution that I like very much. I just wanted to bring that to the attention of the NS2 community.
You could just call me a liar, no need to be so passive aggressive. Oh, and by the way...
*IMAGE REDACTED.* Use your words, the NS forums are not an image-macro board. -Talesin
Somewhere, scattered across the vastness of the Internet, there is a crude black-and-white drawing of a person. Not just any person, mind you - a famous person, a smart person, a person justly famous for being smart. A communicator. A teacher of the ignorant. That person is Neil deGrasse Tyson, and he is not impressed with you. He is impressed with Isaac Newton, yes, but you? You he could care less about. Go invent calculus on your day off and maybe then we can talk.
But this picture is not Neil deGrasse Tyson himself, any more than a picture of a pipe is a pipe. This is just a picture. The man in the picture has his hands raised up, a gesture indicating shock at the immensity of what he has just witnessed or contemplated while simultaneously serving as a warning to others that they should keep their distance, be on their guard, prepare themselves before facing that very same immensity.
But what is it that the not-real Tyson is warning us about? His gaze and his stance convey the nature of it, but cannot by themselves show the details. The picture, bereft of the animating essence of life, has stripped Tyson of his most treasured skill: communication.
But where images fail us, words may yet save us.
For this drawing is not merely a still life, not simply a product of the ancient art of visual expression, not strictly a legacy of the thousands of years of refinement of the craft known to cave painters and Michelangelo alike. No indeed. This image belongs to a different heritage, one today derided as the province of children, but one with a no less noble history than art and literature themselves. This drawing has both pictures and words combined. As explained by Scott McCloud in his definitive work Understanding Comics, this art form is not merely extraordinarily expressive, it has been around in one form or another for millennia. And yet it endures in modern times, and has perhaps become one of the most remarkable means of succinctly expressing an idea to emerge since the dawn of the computer age.
The particular image under present consideration - the black-and-white cautionarily impressed Tyson - has words embedded within it. The words convey meaning, of course, but even their visual style has been chosen to accentuate a certain semantic impression. All caps, block letters, inelegant kerning... these underscore the implied gravity of the situation while simultaneously ironically subverting the ostensible message.
The playtester tells me there arent't any bugs worth reporting anymore, .
Nooo I didn't.
Or at least that wasn't my intention.
The point i was trying to make was that there is not enough justification for developer's time being spent creating an elaborate bug reporting system like tf2 has for a multitude of reasons.
NS2 went through two years of open development with an in game bug reporting system that is now abandoned.
The game has shipped, its seven months later, and the remaining bugs are all mostly reported already, and what isn't can be provided by the now small community remaining, through other means which don't tie up developer time, like tech support forums or contacting highly accessible play testers.
Bugs are still worth reporting just in case, and I'm almost always available for such, but developer time is very precious, so having them sifting through hundreds of reports from the community of potentially low priority issues, on top of what we have internally already, just isn't practical anymore.
So yes, please continue to report whatever you find, its always worth checking.. But the means in which bugs are reported by the community have been changed to better suit the needs of NS2.
Just wanted to clear that up, as i felt a distinction was needed ;-)
You're right, I'm sorry. It seemed like you were talking out of your ass. It's hard for me to believe they would use cheating reports where you get a screenshot, the ID of the cheating player, and fill out a field describing the offense, all just for statistics. I can't argue with the evidence you provided though.
Although... couldn't you concede that they could've posted that as a disclaimer, to avoid being held accountable for processing the reports?
Also, they might not ban based on individual reports, but they might ban based on the statistics provided by the reports (e.g., more than N reports against player X would weigh into banning said player X).
Seems like a terrible waste of information otherwise.
Comments
One guy comes in and tells me about a plugin to ban players, another says cheating is barely a problem, one complains ns2bans doesn't work. Upon my request, the plugin guy explains the hassle of submitting a report. The playtester tells me there arent't any bugs worth reporting anymore, finally, some guy says Valve uses bug and cheating reports just for statistics, they don't actually use the information or do anything about it (I'm guessing that person works at Valve? Yeah, probably not).
ma$$a$$ter, the ns2bans plugin seems like an interesting jab at the problem of cheating, and I really, sincerely, applaud the effort. I just can't applaud the effort it takes to actually report the cheater.
If the cheating evidence can be provided by the server itself, wouldn't it make more sense to have a plugin or builtin functionality that uses that evidence? Why burden players to make a video of it, and burden even more people with a voting process?
If the game could let regular players report cheaters, and the report itself would include information about the player's behavior, maybe even a replay (not sure if NS2 provides replay functionality, but just information that could help reconstruct the events of the game or those surrounding the player would suffice), and player stats, his ID, etc. that would seriously streamline the handling of the problem.
I didn't mean "cheaters ruin the game for me" in reference to NS2, just talking about particular games where a cheater joins, and ruins the game for everybody currently on the server. Relying on admins, plugins, making videos, etc. seems too much of a hassle compared to just sending a report in-game. Think about it, the problem with cheaters is that they ruin the fun for all the people they run into. Let's not make it any less fun to deal with them then it already is.
This is likely not a big problem for the entire community, but it is a problem for those who have to deal with a cheater. Still, TF2 has a solution that I like very much. I just wanted to bring that to the attention of the NS2 community.
Thanks.
You could just call me a liar, no need to be so passive aggressive. Oh, and by the way...
https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=1010-TOKN-8461
Somewhere, scattered across the vastness of the Internet, there is a crude black-and-white drawing of a person. Not just any person, mind you - a famous person, a smart person, a person justly famous for being smart. A communicator. A teacher of the ignorant. That person is Neil deGrasse Tyson, and he is not impressed with you. He is impressed with Isaac Newton, yes, but you? You he could care less about. Go invent calculus on your day off and maybe then we can talk.
But this picture is not Neil deGrasse Tyson himself, any more than a picture of a pipe is a pipe. This is just a picture. The man in the picture has his hands raised up, a gesture indicating shock at the immensity of what he has just witnessed or contemplated while simultaneously serving as a warning to others that they should keep their distance, be on their guard, prepare themselves before facing that very same immensity.
But what is it that the not-real Tyson is warning us about? His gaze and his stance convey the nature of it, but cannot by themselves show the details. The picture, bereft of the animating essence of life, has stripped Tyson of his most treasured skill: communication.
But where images fail us, words may yet save us.
For this drawing is not merely a still life, not simply a product of the ancient art of visual expression, not strictly a legacy of the thousands of years of refinement of the craft known to cave painters and Michelangelo alike. No indeed. This image belongs to a different heritage, one today derided as the province of children, but one with a no less noble history than art and literature themselves. This drawing has both pictures and words combined. As explained by Scott McCloud in his definitive work Understanding Comics, this art form is not merely extraordinarily expressive, it has been around in one form or another for millennia. And yet it endures in modern times, and has perhaps become one of the most remarkable means of succinctly expressing an idea to emerge since the dawn of the computer age.
The particular image under present consideration - the black-and-white cautionarily impressed Tyson - has words embedded within it. The words convey meaning, of course, but even their visual style has been chosen to accentuate a certain semantic impression. All caps, block letters, inelegant kerning... these underscore the implied gravity of the situation while simultaneously ironically subverting the ostensible message.
And what is that message?
"WATCH OUT - WE GOT A FORUM ADMIN HERE"
Truly, nothing more need be said. Even though, at less than five hundred words, not even half the picture's worth has been said so far.
Or at least that wasn't my intention.
The point i was trying to make was that there is not enough justification for developer's time being spent creating an elaborate bug reporting system like tf2 has for a multitude of reasons.
NS2 went through two years of open development with an in game bug reporting system that is now abandoned.
The game has shipped, its seven months later, and the remaining bugs are all mostly reported already, and what isn't can be provided by the now small community remaining, through other means which don't tie up developer time, like tech support forums or contacting highly accessible play testers.
Bugs are still worth reporting just in case, and I'm almost always available for such, but developer time is very precious, so having them sifting through hundreds of reports from the community of potentially low priority issues, on top of what we have internally already, just isn't practical anymore.
So yes, please continue to report whatever you find, its always worth checking.. But the means in which bugs are reported by the community have been changed to better suit the needs of NS2.
Just wanted to clear that up, as i felt a distinction was needed ;-)
Although... couldn't you concede that they could've posted that as a disclaimer, to avoid being held accountable for processing the reports?
Also, they might not ban based on individual reports, but they might ban based on the statistics provided by the reports (e.g., more than N reports against player X would weigh into banning said player X).
Seems like a terrible waste of information otherwise.