omg balance test skulk i'm quitting ns2 forever!!
ezekel
Join Date: 2012-11-29 Member: 173589Members, NS2 Map Tester
Join Date: 2012-11-29 Member: 173589Members, NS2 Map Tester
And that my friends is a grabber intro, thanks school
Ok, so this has been a major discussion about the balance test (instead of all the other wonderful changes the mod itself brings to the table) so I'm going to pretty much end this all right here
The issue a few players seem to have with the movement is that it requires strafing, which is A/D with mouse movement. However recently this was changed so that strafing is not as important of a factor (It's still there though, for those who can) and now you can pretty much gain these new speeds to an extent without this strafing. So literally all this requires (same as vanilla skulk) is your W key, spacebar, and turning your mouse as if you were aiming or looking around a corner..sounds too good to be true? Well it's not
Here is wonderful video proof: click me please (if you click with your middle scroll wheel, it will open this link in a new tab instead of changing your current tab to youtube! #protips
You can stop watching at 1:30~ once you see you can obtain both skulk sounds without strafing, just jumping and turning your mouse (if it was a straight away you wouldn't even need to turn the mouse)
So hope this puts an end to this, sorry for another thread on it. Now please lets return to the balance test thread and continue discussing other important changes that this mod brings to the table. Also if you're still against this mechanic, please discuss there as to what you'd want as an alternative.. cause in my opinion the vanilla skulk requires a change. Any other legitimate concerns about the movement can also be posted there, but enough about it requiring a magical ability that only so few players can do
Also you can see the rest of the movement tutorials for BT here: http://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/130369/video-tutorial-balance-testing-skulk-fade-movement-beginner-to-advanced/p1 (sorry had to self advertise)
Have a nice day everyone
-ezek
Ok, so this has been a major discussion about the balance test (instead of all the other wonderful changes the mod itself brings to the table) so I'm going to pretty much end this all right here
The issue a few players seem to have with the movement is that it requires strafing, which is A/D with mouse movement. However recently this was changed so that strafing is not as important of a factor (It's still there though, for those who can) and now you can pretty much gain these new speeds to an extent without this strafing. So literally all this requires (same as vanilla skulk) is your W key, spacebar, and turning your mouse as if you were aiming or looking around a corner..sounds too good to be true? Well it's not
Here is wonderful video proof: click me please (if you click with your middle scroll wheel, it will open this link in a new tab instead of changing your current tab to youtube! #protips
You can stop watching at 1:30~ once you see you can obtain both skulk sounds without strafing, just jumping and turning your mouse (if it was a straight away you wouldn't even need to turn the mouse)
So hope this puts an end to this, sorry for another thread on it. Now please lets return to the balance test thread and continue discussing other important changes that this mod brings to the table. Also if you're still against this mechanic, please discuss there as to what you'd want as an alternative.. cause in my opinion the vanilla skulk requires a change. Any other legitimate concerns about the movement can also be posted there, but enough about it requiring a magical ability that only so few players can do
Also you can see the rest of the movement tutorials for BT here: http://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/130369/video-tutorial-balance-testing-skulk-fade-movement-beginner-to-advanced/p1 (sorry had to self advertise)
Have a nice day everyone
-ezek
Comments
no you aren't because
Up yours mate.
Flame away my friends.
Because it makes gameplay a lot more enjoyable, thus probably increasing the player retention rate. This on top of lowering the skill floor in regards to some lifeforms.
Also, the BT mod is about a lot more than just bunnyhopping. To be fair, bunnyhopping is not even the most important part as far as I'm concerned.
Not only this, but they're trying to sell it as bunnyhopping and it's just really... not.
I haven't played on a Balance Test server and I haven't been reading the main discussion thread about it so this is the first time I'm hearing about this change. It seems like the ultimate merging of old-school bunny hopping with the newer wall jump system and the audio cues sound great.
I'm not sure if the video clarified this, though: Do you need to hold W once you've got your left-right bunny hopping "wave" going? Because you don't have to hold W in games like Half-Life Deathmatch, CPMA, or NS1.
It's there for the people who can, just like how the current vanilla fade is there for the people who can; compare the best competitive fades you've seen to a regular fade, you'll notice that the public players have a hard time utilizing it and do things like come at you in a straight line, so you can pretty much solo them with a lvl 1-2 shotgun especially if your com just medpacks you. Essentially this raises the skill floor and ceiling at the same time
I've been on a full BT server for more than 6 hours straight, that was the NA one, I've seen a euro one full for 10 hours straight; maybe you're just going online at times when people aren't playing?
I guess this would be funny if I understood it :l
This, sorry for labeling it as that if I did anywhere; it's wall hopping
Because it makes gameplay a lot more enjoyable, thus probably increasing the player retention rate. This on top of lowering the skill floor in regards to some lifeforms.
Also, the BT mod is about a lot more than just bunnyhopping. To be fair, bunnyhopping is not even the most important part as far as I'm concerned.
[/quote]
Also this, there's so many changes and people are so focused on this one change (I mean I think it's a big concern but lets have more legitimate concerns about it, such as)
1) Being able to reach RTs too quick
2) No punishment for over extending
3) Early map denying
As of now say you have a lone marine going to build, and he gets a two-three rush, it's going to be that much more difficult to stop that and this can cause early game domination; he'll have less time to shoot and a faster moving target means more bullets wasted/missed
edit: You can only assume the above when you're facing a full team of people who can fully utilize this mechanic
Weird.. cause I just showed a video that the skulk is the same exact one we have in vanilla... only difference is now it actually gains speed from chaining the wall jumps, and for those who want to further that skill can combine it with strafing
of course, it gets attention
I recommend holding W because if you ever lose momentum you'll keep moving forward
And there were 3 active BT servers last time I looked at the server browser.
the lag master has spoken!!
I really wish I was more imaginative, because I think this is a bad solution to a real problem that would benefit from a more imaginative, intuitive and lore-fitting alternative.
I get your point, but it's not trying to be bunny hopping; sewlek is some magical person who coded the stuff into the game and can change how it works and stuff, if you've played BT for the last month even you'll see it changed constantly.. Anyway it's literally a wall hop mechanic now, you just have the option of strafing to further your wiggle room and increase speeds
But I made this topic for the sole purpose of arguing about this feature, so that the BT thread can really remain about the list of changes that BT brings; because there's so many things and only this one part is being argued about in some places
I should know, I help with shouting the dislike. haha
I will test both variants today again ezekel, and get back on this. But from reading it sounds already better in terms of us humans pressing buttons.
W+mouse+jump is for some a lot more managable then w+mouse+strafekeysx2+jump.
I still think we need a incombat travel for while we are in well.. combat.. but it just struck me.. Does old walljump still work?
Because if it does, the incombat part may be fine. hmm, must test.
>Also I know perfectly fine what bhop is. with practise I could probably do it again, but I just so hate the mechanic<
>edit 2.
Ok so I find it hard because you lose speed if you make your mouse swing to wide. back from bhop im used to doing just that. (not sure if that was smart, but thats how I did it)
Now I do not mind a less wide swing. Just takes more time to adjust.
1) As for hopping with strafekeys. if I do not use forward I find it easier to gain speed but as you stated.. if you for some reason slow down, you lose all momentum.
2) Using forward key is yet another key to use, and pushes me over the limit I can simultanously contiously manage easy, thus I lose less speed when screwing up, but screw up a lot more and gain less speed to begin with.
Since we have both options this is just a personal problem I would think.
Option 3 by only using forward and mouse would probably be the best option to use. yet for some reason I fail to grab or maintain any speed on this. I use the same mouse swings I do on the other options, probably a bit better as I got more focus left since I have less keys to manage. But it just will not buildup speed.
Using leap to gain momentum works, but I manage to blow this momentum within 1 hop.
Surely I am doing something wrong in option3, but I simply can not find out yet what.
I manage to get up to 8, sometimes 9 speed with option 1 and 2. I can sometimes go to sound 2 if I put in leaps.
I am sure i will get better in time, but I still find the whole technique a detestable thing.
its not worth mentioning my speed on option 3, it blows. And I really want to know why.
Maybe UWE can buy some violins for them.
Here's how I prefer to look at it and how I would teach the movement to a new player:
Step 1: Jump around the map using only the forward key.
Step 2: Start wall jumping to build speed. Keep jumping to avoid losing speed to ground friction.
Step 3: Start using the strafe keys to avoid losing speed when taking turns.
Step 4: Use strafe keys and move in a serpentine fashon to build even more speed between wall jumps.
If some people don't like the new movement method - or anything else new about the game - simply because they don't like it, well, that's one thing and perfectly understandable. Every change will be thought of as an improvement by some and a step backwards by others and that's really just a matter of preference.
But if you don't like a change because you'll have to learn something new then I have no sympathy for you, especially if you stake some measure of your self-respect on your supposed skill at video games.
Why does turning left an right make you go faster from a logic standpoint? It just looks sooooo dumb to have your view swinging back and forth just to go faster imho.
I don't care about having to learn something new, but I do care that 1) could lead to some people getting motion sick while playing the game and 2) forcing people to do odd movement to become better at the game. I don't know exactly how bunny hopping worked/works (but from what I understand, this looks pretty close), but just because something has become "standard" in a different game doesn't mean that every game needs to have that same mechanic. Why not come up with some new and interesting ideas for movement instead of re-hashing the same old thing.
Well, the original reason was because of the way you could exploit the physics engine and the way it limited your speed to a cap.