One of the many long standing issues the balance test mod has fixed : the purpose and viability of the flamethrower
How about making it cheaper?
it has increased range and an extended clip, i think the price is fine; also I believe it does slightly more to structures don't quote me on the last part though
The FT is a support weapon and thus works best when supporting ARCs, Exos, or other Marines. It also needs JP and W3 to be effective against life-forms. However, once these criteria are met, it is surprising powerful in the hands of a skilled user. Nailing a life-form directly will do considerable damage-over-time, which may not kill them alone (unless they're a skulk) but it will weaken them for your shotgun/exo teammates and force them to retreat. You can also use it to set large swaths of walls, floors, and ceilings on fire, which enemies take damage upon touching. This is excellent for defending power nodes, phase gates, ARCs, Exos, and other static structures. Lastly, the FT is great against high HP targets like Onos and structures. It has a massive magazine, so unloading into an Onos can be done sans reload. It also disables structures while they are on fire iirc.
While being restricted to support late-game tech, the FT is definitely useful so long as your team still has a healthy balance of SG and LMG.
They're also extremely good at killing skulks though almost everything is, you won't find much better against skulks than the flamethrower though.
The shotgun.
Curiously no. At least I'd say not. The shotgun can of course probably kill a skulk faster in ideal circumstances, but the flamethrower can kill many skulks at a moderate pace in any circumstances, with any level of skill.
The shotgun is better in the right hands, perhaps, but the flamethrower is idiot proof and requires minimal actual effort on the part of the user, which is in itself a strength.
One of the coolest looking things in the whole game is how you can light up the walls and floor with the flame thrower (since Gorgeous). Those burning surfaces don't actually do damage, do they? That might be one subtle way to improve the weapon...
One of the coolest looking things in the whole game is how you can light up the walls and floor with the flame thrower (since Gorgeous). Those burning surfaces don't actually do damage, do they? That might be one subtle way to improve the weapon...
I'm fairly sure that they do damage but it's quite low.
The FT is a support weapon and thus works best when supporting ARCs, Exos, or other Marines. It also needs JP and W3 to be effective against life-forms. However, once these criteria are met, it is surprising powerful in the hands of a skilled user. Nailing a life-form directly will do considerable damage-over-time, which may not kill them alone (unless they're a skulk) but it will weaken them for your shotgun/exo teammates and force them to retreat. LMG.
You know what else supports the team in the same situation "Nailing a life-form directly" WITH a LVL 3 shot gun.... because this will kill a skulk or lerk, and if like you suggest your team has an exo or other Shotguns, your chances of killing fades/onos are much higher...
Flame throwers are pretty and amusing, but thats where they currently stop. I laugh when in game you hear people talking about getting flames since they kill fades...
The truth is if you look at the forums you wont find a post about "OP flamers", but there are dozens of "OP Shotgun" threads... this is because Shotguns cause instantaneous and potentially unavoidable death. If your an amazing fade and 2 guys with a shotgun get lucky your dead, but if your a mediocre fade against two really good rines with flame-throwers you can still get a swipe in before retreating, and then come back...
This is because Flames do DOT emphasis on TIME! every lifeform other then skulks the most important skill is simple.. . Knowing when to run, While good fades/lerks and even onos may have some fancy moves that make them "pro" there is one thing you will see these "pro" players do very well and VERY often and thats RUNNING FOR THEIR LIFE. Flames take energy which makes it harder to run, but any decent player can take that into account and still have the energy for a shadowstep jump combo...
They're extremely easy to use and somewhat disconcerting for aliens. They're also extremely good at killing skulks though almost everything is, you won't find much better against skulks than the flamethrower though.
Also yeah they kill infestation fast, which can be very powerful in itself, they also highlight aliens nicely for your allies, and can be useful to get things away from structures/exos due to their excellent area effect.
They don't do very much damage but they can do it to everything in an area with minimal effort, so they are more effective the fewer of them there are, if that makes sense. The more you buy the less efficient they get.
We must be playing different games both called NS2 because nothing beats the shotgun in pure skulk-killing carnage.
a w3 flamer can burn down triplet crags in 1.5 clips, if i recall correctly, in less than 20 seconds. thus, they are a great alternative to arcs when taking out heal stations and fortified hives.
FT and JP is a great option, sure you have some trade offs that a SG does not have...but they can be a real nuisance.
The energy sapping makes it tough for skulks to catch you in rooms with high ceilings, 3 or more people with JP's and FT's can do a lot of damage quickly to an established hive room.
The cost of them is perhaps the only real down side as they do have a significant down side...given the comparative cheap cost of SG's which have almost 0 downside.
But thats perhaps more an argument for SG's to cost more rather than FT to cost less.
Imho the biggest problem with the ft is how it works. At the moment it works like lit hair spray, but a flame thrower does not work like that. It should be shooting burning liquid and hence should have a balistic curve and leave burning liquid where it falls down. That might make it viable/fun. I would even suggest to make it so that primary attack would just be for shooting the liquid and the secondary attack would turn on the lighter.
That way you could set up traps on the ground or be able to burst damage (drain the aliens in liquid > set them on fire > ??? > profit).
FT and JP is a great option, sure you have some trade offs that a SG does not have...but they can be a real nuisance.
The energy sapping makes it tough for skulks to catch you in rooms with high ceilings, 3 or more people with JP's and FT's can do a lot of damage quickly to an established hive room.
The cost of them is perhaps the only real down side as they do have a significant down side...given the comparative cheap cost of SG's which have almost 0 downside.
But thats perhaps more an argument for SG's to cost more rather than FT to cost less.
Again, you're arguing things that the flamethrower is good at but the shotgun is even better at. Why drain the energy pool of a skulk when you could just kill it with a shotgun? Why only deal a lot of damage to a hive room when you could both kill buildings and defend yourself with a shotgun?
Shotguns don't come with a free toy inside like Flamethrowers do. Usually the first thing I do when I purchase a flamethrower is tip it upside down and dump out all the contents so I can get to the FREE TOY.
What's not to like about the flamethrower when it comes with a FREE TOY!!!!?
FT and JP is a great option, sure you have some trade offs that a SG does not have...but they can be a real nuisance.
The energy sapping makes it tough for skulks to catch you in rooms with high ceilings, 3 or more people with JP's and FT's can do a lot of damage quickly to an established hive room.
The cost of them is perhaps the only real down side as they do have a significant down side...given the comparative cheap cost of SG's which have almost 0 downside.
But thats perhaps more an argument for SG's to cost more rather than FT to cost less.
Again, you're arguing things that the flamethrower is good at but the shotgun is even better at. Why drain the energy pool of a skulk when you could just kill it with a shotgun? Why only deal a lot of damage to a hive room when you could both kill buildings and defend yourself with a shotgun?
Because the SG is OP'd...similar to how the underslung GL was.
The FT fits in nicely..and has trade off...the SG doesn't...hence why its OP'd...but thats tying into another thread.
If (hopefully when) the SG is tweaked to make it less of an outright upgrade over every other gun the FT will fit in nicely.
Comments
it will melt your face... and melty things are not alight.
The shotgun.
How about making it cheaper?
it has increased range and an extended clip, i think the price is fine; also I believe it does slightly more to structures don't quote me on the last part though
While being restricted to support late-game tech, the FT is definitely useful so long as your team still has a healthy balance of SG and LMG.
Curiously no. At least I'd say not. The shotgun can of course probably kill a skulk faster in ideal circumstances, but the flamethrower can kill many skulks at a moderate pace in any circumstances, with any level of skill.
The shotgun is better in the right hands, perhaps, but the flamethrower is idiot proof and requires minimal actual effort on the part of the user, which is in itself a strength.
I'm fairly sure that they do damage but it's quite low.
You know what else supports the team in the same situation "Nailing a life-form directly" WITH a LVL 3 shot gun.... because this will kill a skulk or lerk, and if like you suggest your team has an exo or other Shotguns, your chances of killing fades/onos are much higher...
Flame throwers are pretty and amusing, but thats where they currently stop. I laugh when in game you hear people talking about getting flames since they kill fades...
The truth is if you look at the forums you wont find a post about "OP flamers", but there are dozens of "OP Shotgun" threads... this is because Shotguns cause instantaneous and potentially unavoidable death. If your an amazing fade and 2 guys with a shotgun get lucky your dead, but if your a mediocre fade against two really good rines with flame-throwers you can still get a swipe in before retreating, and then come back...
This is because Flames do DOT emphasis on TIME! every lifeform other then skulks the most important skill is simple.. . Knowing when to run, While good fades/lerks and even onos may have some fancy moves that make them "pro" there is one thing you will see these "pro" players do very well and VERY often and thats RUNNING FOR THEIR LIFE. Flames take energy which makes it harder to run, but any decent player can take that into account and still have the energy for a shadowstep jump combo...
See 13:50
The energy sapping makes it tough for skulks to catch you in rooms with high ceilings, 3 or more people with JP's and FT's can do a lot of damage quickly to an established hive room.
The cost of them is perhaps the only real down side as they do have a significant down side...given the comparative cheap cost of SG's which have almost 0 downside.
But thats perhaps more an argument for SG's to cost more rather than FT to cost less.
That way you could set up traps on the ground or be able to burst damage (drain the aliens in liquid > set them on fire > ??? > profit).
Again, you're arguing things that the flamethrower is good at but the shotgun is even better at. Why drain the energy pool of a skulk when you could just kill it with a shotgun? Why only deal a lot of damage to a hive room when you could both kill buildings and defend yourself with a shotgun?
What's not to like about the flamethrower when it comes with a FREE TOY!!!!?
The FT fits in nicely..and has trade off...the SG doesn't...hence why its OP'd...but thats tying into another thread.
If (hopefully when) the SG is tweaked to make it less of an outright upgrade over every other gun the FT will fit in nicely.