Don't listen to him, he's just mad because he joined a server, started dying a bit, raged, and got banned (tonight) after quite some time of screaming bloody murder and abusing people in the server. @Frustration: the fade is a hit and run class. Just because you see us picking off lone marines, doesn't mean we're not working to a plan and coordinating with our team. If you seriously expect fades (who know what they're doing) to run into battle on the floor, and swipe until either they or the 8 marines in the room are dead, you are completely deluded! You're mad at people preserving their expensive life forms? Wut?
Sure. I'm not the best, a comp player's pov would probably show the capability better than me. The marine team in this was not stellar by any means as it was a pub game. I also miss a lot of easy swipes and got frazzled a few times into swipe spam buuuuuuuut here you go:
The parts where I am fading correctly are the fly by swipes. Also even after turning off my fan I'm still getting some background noise. Time to adjust the microphone boost.
I feel like if this is what we're going to be stuck with, then might as well bring the ns1 fade back in all it's glory with metabolize (remove shadow step) and return the focus upgrade. Then I might be content with the new movement model.
Otherwise, the movement feels predictable. With the wide arch turns, linear jumping pattern and constantly low to the ground to maintain speeds with bunny hop. A good marine that can aim should be able to pick off these fades. If those marines in the big room (can't remember the name atm) had stuck together and weld between hit-and-runs, the outcome might possibly have been different. And using shadow step in any manner would have easily gotten you killed, which is a shame cause I love using it's 4 directional movements.
You didn't really get frazzled into swipe spam, considering half of them weren't even paying attention.
It's a very unnecessarily complex form of movement. That's why I never bothered to learn bunnyhopping in my 18 years of FPS play to begin with. I'm not going to start learning an exploit now just to be able to play a game.
Old school fps player - check
Thinks BHOP is an exploit and difficult to learn - check
NS2 bhop is not a bhop, you only hold forward + queue jump - check
Are you sure you have been playing fps for 18 years? These three statements do not lineup, sounds like a L2P issue from someone screaming "I don't like holding spacebar + forward, so fade movement is bad cause i refuse to use it"
Sure. I'm not the best, a comp player's pov would probably show the capability better than me. The marine team in this was not stellar by any means as it was a pub game. I also miss a lot of easy swipes and got frazzled a few times into swipe spam buuuuuuuut here you go:
The parts where I am fading correctly are the fly by swipes. Also even after turning off my fan I'm still getting some background noise. Time to adjust the microphone boost.
I feel like if this is what we're going to be stuck with, then might as well bring the ns1 fade back in all it's glory with metabolize (remove shadow step) and return the focus upgrade. Then I might be content with the new movement model.
Otherwise, the movement feels utterly predictable. With the wide arch turns, linear pattern and constantly low to the ground to maintain speeds with bunny hop. A good marine that can aim can pick fades off. If those marines in the big room (can't remember the name atm) had stuck together and weld between hit-and-runs, the outcome would have been different. And using shadow step in any manner would have easily gotten you killed, which is a shame cause I used the heck out of four directional movements on it.
You didn't really get frazzled into swipe spam, considering half of them weren't even paying attention.
They were pub marines on the first non-rookie server I joined so I could get footage. WHAT DO YOU WANT FROM ME?
Sure. I'm not the best, a comp player's pov would probably show the capability better than me. The marine team in this was not stellar by any means as it was a pub game. I also miss a lot of easy swipes and got frazzled a few times into swipe spam buuuuuuuut here you go:
The parts where I am fading correctly are the fly by swipes. Also even after turning off my fan I'm still getting some background noise. Time to adjust the microphone boost.
I feel like if this is what we're going to be stuck with, then might as well bring the ns1 fade back in all it's glory with metabolize (remove shadow step) and return the focus upgrade. Then I might be content with the new movement model.
Otherwise, the movement feels utterly predictable. With the wide arch turns, linear pattern and constantly low to the ground to maintain speeds with bunny hop. A good marine that can aim can pick fades off. If those marines in the big room (can't remember the name atm) had stuck together and weld between hit-and-runs, the outcome would have been different. And using shadow step in any manner would have easily gotten you killed, which is a shame cause I used the heck out of four directional movements on it.
You didn't really get frazzled into swipe spam, considering half of them weren't even paying attention.
They were pub marines on the first non-rookie server I joined so I could get footage. WHAT DO YOU WANT FROM ME?
He wants you to say that the old fade was better, duh.
Sure. I'm not the best, a comp player's pov would probably show the capability better than me. The marine team in this was not stellar by any means as it was a pub game. I also miss a lot of easy swipes and got frazzled a few times into swipe spam buuuuuuuut here you go:
The parts where I am fading correctly are the fly by swipes. Also even after turning off my fan I'm still getting some background noise. Time to adjust the microphone boost.
I feel like if this is what we're going to be stuck with, then might as well bring the ns1 fade back in all it's glory with metabolize (remove shadow step) and return the focus upgrade. Then I might be content with the new movement model.
Otherwise, the movement feels utterly predictable. With the wide arch turns, linear pattern and constantly low to the ground to maintain speeds with bunny hop. A good marine that can aim can pick fades off. If those marines in the big room (can't remember the name atm) had stuck together and weld between hit-and-runs, the outcome would have been different. And using shadow step in any manner would have easily gotten you killed, which is a shame cause I used the heck out of four directional movements on it.
You didn't really get frazzled into swipe spam, considering half of them weren't even paying attention.
They were pub marines on the first non-rookie server I joined so I could get footage. WHAT DO YOU WANT FROM ME?
He wants you to say that the old fade was better, duh.
He wants you to say that the old fade was better, duh.
If the hit-and-run bunny fade is here to stay, being that shadow step is useless and no double jump, then I rather they not half-ass it and bring back the NS1 fade. I'll be much happier. Even happier than having the Shadowstep fade back.
If the hit-and-run bunny fade is here to stay, being that shadow step is useless and no double jump, then I rather they not half-ass it and bring back the NS1 fade. I'll be much happier. Even happier than having the Shadowstep fade back.
No offense but sounds like you really are not giving the new fade much of a chance. SS is still very useful for closing gaps. Also, the old fade was still hit and run... isnt that what the fade is all about? Im sorry you can't spam ss anymore.
No offense but sounds like you really are not giving the new fade much of a chance. SS is still very useful for closing gaps. Also, the old fade was still hit and run... isnt that what the fade is all about? Im sorry you can't spam ss anymore.
If hit and run is what the fade is all about, then I've given the new fade a good +200 hours worth of trying out. Considering the only thing new on the new fade is that you bunny hop instead of jump>ss>double jump>blink to traverse the map. Except now the new fade has less to offer than the pre-250 fade because shadow step is subpar (now a newb trap skill), and double jump was removed.
Saying SS is still useful for closing gaps is hogwash. What is the point of using the forward movement on shadow step when it no longer has the movement boost benefit that blink offers. You're better off just using blink if you want to go forward then. Using sideways or backwards on the shadow step will just get you killed by anyone with eyes and the reflexes of a sloth.
My enjoyment pre-250 came from spamming shadow step while mid-air inside a marine base, hardly ever touching the floor unless swiping at a marine or until I blink out of the base. Now I spend more time at the floor level. Me no like-y.
Bunnyhopping is a far more difficult process than just pressing shift + spacebar (shadowstep jump.) It's a very unnecessarily complex form of movement. That's why I never bothered to learn bunnyhopping in my 18 years of FPS play to begin with. I'm not going to start learning an exploit now just to be able to play a game.
Now with 100% less A/D Strafing and only using the mouse to completely control where I look and travel. It is ever so slightly slower but still ridiculously viable.
I can even set up a webcam to watch my keyboard if you like.
Just did 2 laps around the perimeter of Tram using Blink/jump spam in 250 and regular Shadowstep jumps in 249.
249 Shadowstep: 0:43.067
250 Blink: 0:44.000
So while they are nearly similar speed wise I still used much more energy with Blink.
Bunnyhopping is a far more difficult process than just pressing shift + spacebar (shadowstep jump.) It's a very unnecessarily complex form of movement. That's why I never bothered to learn bunnyhopping in my 18 years of FPS play to begin with. I'm not going to start learning an exploit now just to be able to play a game.
Now with 100% less A/D Strafing and only using the mouse to completely control where I look and travel. It is ever so slightly slower but still ridiculously viable.
I can even set up a webcam to watch my keyboard if you like.
Now lets see some combat.
This is where I feel the pre 250 surpasses the 250 fade.
Sure. I'm not the best, a comp player's pov would probably show the capability better than me. The marine team in this was not stellar by any means as it was a pub game. I also miss a lot of easy swipes and got frazzled a few times into swipe spam buuuuuuuut here you go:
The parts where I am fading correctly are the fly by swipes. Also even after turning off my fan I'm still getting some background noise. Time to adjust the microphone boost.
This video is perfect. It highlights the key problem with 250 Fade. With you only have Blink you're left with the choice of using Blink to dodge and draining your energy or not using Blink to dodge and standing still. A Fade that stands still is a dead Fade. Standard AR fire was draining your health very quickly by standing still in that video. With the kind of hits you were taking a shotgunner would have fragged you a long time ago.
You can claim that a Fade is only meant to be a hit and run class. A Fade is really meant to be an assassin class. It has high damage against flesh and a low amount of health. What good is an assassin if they can't kill their target? Who would hire an assassin that only injures their targets most of the time?
Sure. I'm not the best, a comp player's pov would probably show the capability better than me. The marine team in this was not stellar by any means as it was a pub game. I also miss a lot of easy swipes and got frazzled a few times into swipe spam buuuuuuuut here you go:
The parts where I am fading correctly are the fly by swipes. Also even after turning off my fan I'm still getting some background noise. Time to adjust the microphone boost.
I feel like if this is what we're going to be stuck with, then might as well bring the ns1 fade back in all it's glory with metabolize (remove shadow step) and return the focus upgrade. Then I might be content with the new movement model.
Otherwise, the movement feels predictable. With the wide arch turns, linear jumping pattern and constantly low to the ground to maintain speeds with bunny hop. A good marine that can aim should be able to pick off these fades. If those marines in the big room (can't remember the name atm) had stuck together and weld between hit-and-runs, the outcome might possibly have been different. And using shadow step in any manner would have easily gotten you killed, which is a shame cause I love using it's 4 directional movements.
You didn't really get frazzled into swipe spam, considering half of them weren't even paying attention.
I played some NS1 again over the weekend and I have to admit, I prefer it over NS2 250. Even with the horrid control scheme (Blink as a separate "weapon") I was more effective as a Fade in NS1 than I am in NS2 250. I wasn't some NS1 pro either. I barely played NS1. In my HL1 days I stuck to TS.
This video is perfect. It highlights the key problem with 250 Fade. With you only have Blink you're left with the choice of using Blink to dodge and draining your energy or not using Blink to dodge and standing still. A Fade that stands still is a dead Fade. Standard AR fire was draining your health very quickly by standing still in that video. With the kind of hits you were taking a shotgunner would have fragged you a long time ago.
The point is to never stop moving. It was the same thing people did with shadowstep. You fly by swipe and leave. The only times I stopped for multiple swipes was a) Me vs rifle b) came up behind c) I had the clear HP advantage (see aura). If you tried to mash shadowstep and stay in the fight even in 249 any decent marine with a shotgun would twitch shot and drop you. The same is true in 250. This is why every time I engaged a group that I didn't have a surprise advantage on, I never stopped moving. Not to mention it was a freaking pub and you are reading way to much into a quick mockup I did with the preface of THERE ARE BETTER PLAYERS THAN ME AT THIS.
You can claim that a Fade is only meant to be a hit and run class. A Fade is really meant to be an assassin class. It has high damage against flesh and a low amount of health. What good is an assassin if they can't kill their target? Who would hire an assassin that only injures their targets most of the time?
You are confusing assassin with brawler. 4 hits (or more if glancing hits is enabled and you miss) to kill a marine from Armor 2 onward doesn't seem like its "high damage"
Honestly, I posted the videos to dispel the myth that the fade movement in b250 costs a lot of energy. It doesn't. Swipes are the energy drain. In the videos I posted I was SUPER generous with my blinking. Everything I did could be done with half as much energy expenditure. A lot of it was using blink to play it safe on the upward slopes.
If you want to have your b249 fade was better argument you can have it with someone else. You won't be convincing me. You know, because fun is subjective.
edit: As an additional note. While you can spam jump and rely on the jump queuing and be just fine, timing the jumps for the landing will cause you to lose less momentum as it is far more precise and you spend a split second less time with ground friction. The same is true for the 250 skulk.
Bunnyhopping is a far more difficult process than just pressing shift + spacebar (shadowstep jump.) It's a very unnecessarily complex form of movement. That's why I never bothered to learn bunnyhopping in my 18 years of FPS play to begin with. I'm not going to start learning an exploit now just to be able to play a game.
Now with 100% less A/D Strafing and only using the mouse to completely control where I look and travel. It is ever so slightly slower but still ridiculously viable.
I can even set up a webcam to watch my keyboard if you like.
Just did 2 laps around the perimeter of Tram using Blink/jump spam in 250 and regular Shadowstep jumps in 249.
249 Shadowstep: 0:43.067
250 Blink: 0:44.000
So while they are nearly similar speed wise I still used much more energy with Blink.
Bunnyhopping is a far more difficult process than just pressing shift + spacebar (shadowstep jump.) It's a very unnecessarily complex form of movement. That's why I never bothered to learn bunnyhopping in my 18 years of FPS play to begin with. I'm not going to start learning an exploit now just to be able to play a game.
Now with 100% less A/D Strafing and only using the mouse to completely control where I look and travel. It is ever so slightly slower but still ridiculously viable.
I can even set up a webcam to watch my keyboard if you like.
Now lets see some combat.
This is where I feel the pre 250 surpasses the 250 fade.
Sure. I'm not the best, a comp player's pov would probably show the capability better than me. The marine team in this was not stellar by any means as it was a pub game. I also miss a lot of easy swipes and got frazzled a few times into swipe spam buuuuuuuut here you go:
The parts where I am fading correctly are the fly by swipes. Also even after turning off my fan I'm still getting some background noise. Time to adjust the microphone boost.
This video is perfect. It highlights the key problem with 250 Fade. With you only have Blink you're left with the choice of using Blink to dodge and draining your energy or not using Blink to dodge and standing still. A Fade that stands still is a dead Fade. Standard AR fire was draining your health very quickly by standing still in that video. With the kind of hits you were taking a shotgunner would have fragged you a long time ago.
You can claim that a Fade is only meant to be a hit and run class. A Fade is really meant to be an assassin class. It has high damage against flesh and a low amount of health. What good is an assassin if they can't kill their target? Who would hire an assassin that only injures their targets most of the time?
Sure. I'm not the best, a comp player's pov would probably show the capability better than me. The marine team in this was not stellar by any means as it was a pub game. I also miss a lot of easy swipes and got frazzled a few times into swipe spam buuuuuuuut here you go:
The parts where I am fading correctly are the fly by swipes. Also even after turning off my fan I'm still getting some background noise. Time to adjust the microphone boost.
I feel like if this is what we're going to be stuck with, then might as well bring the ns1 fade back in all it's glory with metabolize (remove shadow step) and return the focus upgrade. Then I might be content with the new movement model.
Otherwise, the movement feels predictable. With the wide arch turns, linear jumping pattern and constantly low to the ground to maintain speeds with bunny hop. A good marine that can aim should be able to pick off these fades. If those marines in the big room (can't remember the name atm) had stuck together and weld between hit-and-runs, the outcome might possibly have been different. And using shadow step in any manner would have easily gotten you killed, which is a shame cause I love using it's 4 directional movements.
You didn't really get frazzled into swipe spam, considering half of them weren't even paying attention.
I played some NS1 again over the weekend and I have to admit, I prefer it over NS2 250. Even with the horrid control scheme (Blink as a separate "weapon") I was more effective as a Fade in NS1 than I am in NS2 250. I wasn't some NS1 pro either. I barely played NS1. In my HL1 days I stuck to TS.
Heh, EVERYONE was a more effective fade in NS1 then NS2. It's not like it was hard to play it. And as far as all this "use more energy talk".... I don't know, can't really compare because I honestly hated playing fade before 250, although I did try it a few times. But I sure as hell never run out of energy now, in fact, I never hit my blink button for more the a second and that doesn't really seem to put much of a dent in my energy even without adrenaline.
This seems to have turned into a L2P and poor argument over which fade is best thread. I originally made this thread to publicly grieve the fade that is gone.
If you are going to discuss which fade is best state why.
I do not like the b250 fade for mostly subjective reasons mostly centering around the blink mechanic.
If I was new to the game I would not be trying to learn the fade as I did back when I started in 208. The reason I am trying to learn this new b250 fade is because of the nostalgia of the b249 fade which I loved dearly. B250 has actually made me start playing lerk regularly because I find it more fun that the b250 fade.
The real difference between b249 and b250 fade is shadow step vs blink. It is hard for me to identify why I like the shadow step mechanic more than the blink mechanic. In both you are fading into a nether world of sorts. One for a short while, one for a long while.
My best explanation for my feelings towards the fade is how well my imagination accepts the movement mechanic. When I imagine a creature with the ability to fade into a netherworld, I imagine it would be easier to do so for a short time. I imagine it would be hard, taking more energy, to hold itself in this netherworld for long, as the creature is from this world. To my imagination it makes sense that going into the nether world would make you have no friction, like the void of space, allowing you to go really fast. My imagination can see the fade exploiting its ability to enter this nether world to go fast, but trying to conserve its energy as best it can by being there as little as possible.
Objective reasoning I can not use right now. I can not objectively say that the shadow step fade or blink fade works better or worse in actually game play.
My reasons are pretty obvious: I was shit with 249 and under fade. I feel like I can actually play the 250 fade effectively. And yes I understand I'm playing against some new players the last few days but the mechanics seem to make more sense to me.
Comments
Don't listen to him, he's just mad because he joined a server, started dying a bit, raged, and got banned (tonight) after quite some time of screaming bloody murder and abusing people in the server. @Frustration: the fade is a hit and run class. Just because you see us picking off lone marines, doesn't mean we're not working to a plan and coordinating with our team. If you seriously expect fades (who know what they're doing) to run into battle on the floor, and swipe until either they or the 8 marines in the room are dead, you are completely deluded! You're mad at people preserving their expensive life forms? Wut?
I feel like if this is what we're going to be stuck with, then might as well bring the ns1 fade back in all it's glory with metabolize (remove shadow step) and return the focus upgrade. Then I might be content with the new movement model.
Otherwise, the movement feels predictable. With the wide arch turns, linear jumping pattern and constantly low to the ground to maintain speeds with bunny hop. A good marine that can aim should be able to pick off these fades. If those marines in the big room (can't remember the name atm) had stuck together and weld between hit-and-runs, the outcome might possibly have been different. And using shadow step in any manner would have easily gotten you killed, which is a shame cause I love using it's 4 directional movements.
You didn't really get frazzled into swipe spam, considering half of them weren't even paying attention.
Old school fps player - check
Thinks BHOP is an exploit and difficult to learn - check
NS2 bhop is not a bhop, you only hold forward + queue jump - check
Are you sure you have been playing fps for 18 years? These three statements do not lineup, sounds like a L2P issue from someone screaming "I don't like holding spacebar + forward, so fade movement is bad cause i refuse to use it"
They were pub marines on the first non-rookie server I joined so I could get footage. WHAT DO YOU WANT FROM ME?
He wants you to say that the old fade was better, duh.
But fun is subjective.
If the hit-and-run bunny fade is here to stay, being that shadow step is useless and no double jump, then I rather they not half-ass it and bring back the NS1 fade. I'll be much happier. Even happier than having the Shadowstep fade back.
No offense but sounds like you really are not giving the new fade much of a chance. SS is still very useful for closing gaps. Also, the old fade was still hit and run... isnt that what the fade is all about? Im sorry you can't spam ss anymore.
If hit and run is what the fade is all about, then I've given the new fade a good +200 hours worth of trying out. Considering the only thing new on the new fade is that you bunny hop instead of jump>ss>double jump>blink to traverse the map. Except now the new fade has less to offer than the pre-250 fade because shadow step is subpar (now a newb trap skill), and double jump was removed.
Saying SS is still useful for closing gaps is hogwash. What is the point of using the forward movement on shadow step when it no longer has the movement boost benefit that blink offers. You're better off just using blink if you want to go forward then. Using sideways or backwards on the shadow step will just get you killed by anyone with eyes and the reflexes of a sloth.
My enjoyment pre-250 came from spamming shadow step while mid-air inside a marine base, hardly ever touching the floor unless swiping at a marine or until I blink out of the base. Now I spend more time at the floor level. Me no like-y.
Just did 2 laps around the perimeter of Tram using Blink/jump spam in 250 and regular Shadowstep jumps in 249.
249 Shadowstep: 0:43.067
250 Blink: 0:44.000
So while they are nearly similar speed wise I still used much more energy with Blink.
This video is perfect. It highlights the key problem with 250 Fade. With you only have Blink you're left with the choice of using Blink to dodge and draining your energy or not using Blink to dodge and standing still. A Fade that stands still is a dead Fade. Standard AR fire was draining your health very quickly by standing still in that video. With the kind of hits you were taking a shotgunner would have fragged you a long time ago.
You can claim that a Fade is only meant to be a hit and run class. A Fade is really meant to be an assassin class. It has high damage against flesh and a low amount of health. What good is an assassin if they can't kill their target? Who would hire an assassin that only injures their targets most of the time?
I played some NS1 again over the weekend and I have to admit, I prefer it over NS2 250. Even with the horrid control scheme (Blink as a separate "weapon") I was more effective as a Fade in NS1 than I am in NS2 250. I wasn't some NS1 pro either. I barely played NS1. In my HL1 days I stuck to TS.
The point is to never stop moving. It was the same thing people did with shadowstep. You fly by swipe and leave. The only times I stopped for multiple swipes was a) Me vs rifle b) came up behind c) I had the clear HP advantage (see aura). If you tried to mash shadowstep and stay in the fight even in 249 any decent marine with a shotgun would twitch shot and drop you. The same is true in 250. This is why every time I engaged a group that I didn't have a surprise advantage on, I never stopped moving. Not to mention it was a freaking pub and you are reading way to much into a quick mockup I did with the preface of THERE ARE BETTER PLAYERS THAN ME AT THIS.
You are confusing assassin with brawler. 4 hits (or more if glancing hits is enabled and you miss) to kill a marine from Armor 2 onward doesn't seem like its "high damage"
Honestly, I posted the videos to dispel the myth that the fade movement in b250 costs a lot of energy. It doesn't. Swipes are the energy drain. In the videos I posted I was SUPER generous with my blinking. Everything I did could be done with half as much energy expenditure. A lot of it was using blink to play it safe on the upward slopes.
If you want to have your b249 fade was better argument you can have it with someone else. You won't be convincing me. You know, because fun is subjective.
edit: As an additional note. While you can spam jump and rely on the jump queuing and be just fine, timing the jumps for the landing will cause you to lose less momentum as it is far more precise and you spend a split second less time with ground friction. The same is true for the 250 skulk.
Heh, EVERYONE was a more effective fade in NS1 then NS2. It's not like it was hard to play it. And as far as all this "use more energy talk".... I don't know, can't really compare because I honestly hated playing fade before 250, although I did try it a few times. But I sure as hell never run out of energy now, in fact, I never hit my blink button for more the a second and that doesn't really seem to put much of a dent in my energy even without adrenaline.
If you are going to discuss which fade is best state why.
I do not like the b250 fade for mostly subjective reasons mostly centering around the blink mechanic.
If I was new to the game I would not be trying to learn the fade as I did back when I started in 208. The reason I am trying to learn this new b250 fade is because of the nostalgia of the b249 fade which I loved dearly. B250 has actually made me start playing lerk regularly because I find it more fun that the b250 fade.
The real difference between b249 and b250 fade is shadow step vs blink. It is hard for me to identify why I like the shadow step mechanic more than the blink mechanic. In both you are fading into a nether world of sorts. One for a short while, one for a long while.
My best explanation for my feelings towards the fade is how well my imagination accepts the movement mechanic. When I imagine a creature with the ability to fade into a netherworld, I imagine it would be easier to do so for a short time. I imagine it would be hard, taking more energy, to hold itself in this netherworld for long, as the creature is from this world. To my imagination it makes sense that going into the nether world would make you have no friction, like the void of space, allowing you to go really fast. My imagination can see the fade exploiting its ability to enter this nether world to go fast, but trying to conserve its energy as best it can by being there as little as possible.
Objective reasoning I can not use right now. I can not objectively say that the shadow step fade or blink fade works better or worse in actually game play.
new skulk is amazing
new movement system is amazing
and 250 patch is amazing
thanks to the developers for my return to the game