I would like to see it brought back to where marines feared the bile bombing gorges. The reason why aliens need a siege type weapon is to break a turtle, it far too easy for marines to set up robo factories and armories to block doors and hallways. If the aliens tried to do that marines can move up arc’s and shoot thru walls negating whips and gorges.
It’s sad to see that pretty much everyone wants to see the devour come back on the onos but UWE stand point has been “nah we don’t want to.” This would pretty much put a stop to the one marine chasing after the onos, in NS1 when this would happen the onos would do a quick 180 and gulp.
I am far more scared of a fade than I am of an onos. While the fade has less HP it’s far faster harder to hit and does about the same damage. The onos is far, far slower and has always been a bullet sponge.
With the faster exos I would like to see bilebomb's range restored or at least increased a little. It's kind of crazy how close you have to get to exos to bile them nowadays and they can chase you down/kill you much easier due to their speed and the reduced range.
Otherwise you are really downplaying bilebomb's effectiveness against structures and exos.
ps. the biggest problem with onos i see in pub games is that too many players think they should be able to tank in and win the game. sorry but thats not what the onos is about. its about intimidation and brute force and supporting the skulk gorge fade and lerk.
Problem is, nobody is intimidated by the current Onos. 2 LMG Marines beat on Onos now. This quote says all you need to know:
An Onos hitting the Power used to always force a beacon, now 2 or 3 marines phase back and force him to run.
And what else is an Onos supposed to do besides tank? It does nothing else better than a free Skulk. "Support" the other lifeforms and you get focused down in seconds. Now Onoses do nothing at all
Waste of res, especially compared to Fade. Fades are even more useful for breaking turtles now, how ****ed is that?
It's not just a L2P thing. Onos was fine before 250.
Increasing the health of the onos and making it slower was tried in beta. What happened? You had exactly ONE attack as onos. You got into the base and tried to bring it down before you died. That was it. You could never get out alive because every marine with a brain would chase a slowly fleeing onos.
Bilebomb could really take a range increase since the damage is so low right now. At least I found the old overpowered bilebomb that forced the marines out to hunt the gorge more fun to play than all the turtles we have to endure now. And in the end, its the fun we should focus on.
Why not increase the Biomass scaling? I read this somewhere in the BT thread.
Basically, you leave Onos as they are and nerf Fade hp, but instead increase the Biomass HP scaling (and maybe Carapace). This makes the early Fades and Onos a lot less intimidating, yet allowing them to kill off the marines at the end (especially with four hives).
Also: Don't try to solve the turtling problem by buffing aliens. Aliens are fine. We should look at marines. Apart from dual exos, they have their whole tech available at one base. That's ridiculous. Shift some tech from the first to the second CC (maybe aw3, both minigun exos) and turtles will become less of a problem.
Onos could use a HP/armor buff imo, but increasing it's speed/agility, or just buffing charge (faster acceleration, less energy cost, adding a bit more directional control while charging) would make him a lot more useful as well, not to mention more fun to play.
Whatever happened to the onos breaking thru the door intro? I mean that thing looked scary as hell, now it’s “oooo look an onos lets go kill it.” In any given game where aliens get enough res to start evolving into an onos more onos will die than fades. If the onos costs more and is basically the pinnacle of alien life forms, then don’t make it weaker than fades.
Besides gl’s and arc’s you have exos for structure damage but here’s the thing:
Rail gun exo – 40 p res
Single mini gun exo – 40 p res
Dual minis gun exo – 60 p res
Onos 60 p res + 3 abilities 24 p res = 84 p res
Now I’m not that great at math but even I can tell there is something wrong with that.
If UWE is going to continue to nerf the onos thing bring back bile bomb to what it was. Otherwise aliens are going to be left with nothing but the fade and vet players telling new player to “get better.”
Whatever happened to the onos breaking thru the door intro? I mean that thing looked scary as hell, now it’s “oooo look an onos lets go kill it.” In any given game where aliens get enough res to start evolving into an onos more onos will die than fades. If the onos costs more and is basically the pinnacle of alien life forms, then don’t make it weaker than fades.
Besides gl’s and arc’s you have exos for structure damage but here’s the thing:
Rail gun exo – 40 p res
Single mini gun exo – 40 p res
Dual minis gun exo – 60 p res
Onos 60 p res + 3 abilities 24 p res = 84 p res
Now I’m not that great at math but even I can tell there is something wrong with that.
If UWE is going to continue to nerf the onos thing bring back bile bomb to what it was. Otherwise aliens are going to be left with nothing but the fade and vet players telling new player to “get better.”
four onos have a lot of life. everyone on chair with a bit of enzyme is adead chair
@amoral
Four onos have a lot of life, four onos getting to chair with a drifter is a good idea but only when every alien is on spot. Also providing there are no exos.
@amoral
Four onos have a lot of life, four onos getting to chair with a drifter is a good idea but only when every alien is on spot. Also providing there are no exos.
true enough, so everybody do your job, and kill those res towers.
I think messing with the health stats for the onos is a pretty terrible idea. It's in an OK place right now. The biggest "problems" with it that I can see are:
- Range. Yes, it was annoying as marine in the beta when the onos had a huge hit range, but now I feel like your model actually has to be inside the marine that you're about to hit for the hit to land. Is the hit range actually shorter than a skulk bite now? It feels that way, maybe relative to the onos' size. In a fast-paced game like this, that's not great. It also makes it WAY too easy to get trolled from ledges and elevated surfaces that were possible to hit with the longer range before.
- Stomp. What happened to it? It was actually really nice before when there was a longer shockwave in front of the onos. Now, first it's a circle around the onos, and even that hardly ever works. I haven't been playing onos too much (I don't like it in general), but when I have, the stomp has been ridiculously useless. I actually used to use it a lot, especially stomping 3 marines together and then hitting them, or having teammates hit them. Now, first the stomp wave is way short, and second it either doesn't work on marines on a different "level" platform right next to you, or they jump over it?? In my opinion, if it's going to remain crappier and circular like this, UWE really need to take a hard look at the code for the stomping, and make sure it works on all marines who are even on different surface levels in a sphere around the onos, but not jetpackers. I feel like now it's some kind of 2d circle calculation, and it's failing pretty hard.
- Removal of strafing while sprinting. All-around a terrible decision IMO.
- Sprint/charge hits. Do they not work anymore, or is it just me? Like I say I hardly play onos and I don't play NS2 like I used to a few months ago, but it seems like hits always do 100 even if you sprint-hit.
- Range: I think Onos range is great now. Feels better as Onos AND marine tbh.
- Stomp: Is utterly useless. Time is much better spent by goring. Even if there's 3 marines standing right infront of you on level ground you're lucky if you get 2 of them down. Buggy as hell.
- Removal of strafing while sprinting: Actually, 250 removed strafing from alot of things. Try to do a strafing jump. Marine? Not gonna happen. Skulk? Not happening. Onos can do this, but how useful is a strafejumping Onos... Something to do with the new bunnyhopping code I guess.
Edit: To clarify: A strafejump that also goes forward. Aka jumping diagonally.
With this and the diggest ability UWE is going to introduce in the new content patch onos will be feared again.
Oh god no... do you mean digest, as in devour? Why oh why must UWE solve balance problems by introducing annoying features? I sincerely hope they consider other ways to balance. The Onos just needs a proper buff. No need to piss marine players off to gain balance. Insta-kill features are just not enjoyable, neither to the victim nor to the user.
I feel it soon may be time to create a proper thread about this. Sacrificing fun for balance and "balancing" the game by making drastic changes instead of just actually lowering or increasing numbers is a slow but sure path towards a diminishing player-base due to frustration. I'd be among the players leaving for sure if we had to deal with devour as well as fades on a daily basis when playing marines. I'd like more creatures based on skill, not waiting around a corner and insta-killing just because i have to do something to make up for the high cost of the otherwise useless Onos.
But seriously, PITY UPON THY BILEBOMB, please buff it back to atleast a fraction of its former glory. Bilebomb is pathetic nowdays. Arcs laught at silly gorges, 2 gorges reaching your main base to bilebomb is no longer a catastrophe and the only units that fear bilebomb are sentries and MACs. Just sawd.
Are you mad? Two 10-res creatures should not be able to devastate dozens of res of equipment in ten seconds. That's what an Onos should be for. We already gain access to bilebomb from the first hive now. You'd have to move it to the third hive for it to be as powerful as it once was.
But seriously, PITY UPON THY BILEBOMB, please buff it back to atleast a fraction of its former glory. Bilebomb is pathetic nowdays. Arcs laught at silly gorges, 2 gorges reaching your main base to bilebomb is no longer a catastrophe and the only units that fear bilebomb are sentries and MACs. Just sawd.
Are you mad? Two 10-res creatures should not be able to devastate dozens of res of equipment in ten seconds. That's what an Onos should be for. We already gain access to bilebomb from the first hive now. You'd have to move it to the third hive for it to be as powerful as it once was.
two 5 res lifeforms can't unless there are badly placed vents, or an inattentive comm. leave lanes open and you deserve to be gorge rushed, leave PBS coverage shoddy in pub, you deserve to be punished. same thing for ninja phase.5 marines can take out a hive really really fast.
The one thing I will say about devour is it added that level of fear to the Onos that is severely lacking in this build. When you got devoured it sucked, but it was one of those abilities that made you say 'Yep, that's why it costs the most res to have that lifeform.' Devour gave you that fear to stay to the heck away from the Onos, especially end game. Personally, I'd be OK with devour coming back, but I'd also be fine if it stayed away because I too think there are some better ways to balance the game than to add an insta-kill ability. I'm just saying that although devour sucked as a Marine, it definitely made you value and fear the power of an Onos.
I'm sure we will see some changes to the Onos/Fade conundrum in the next build. I know there are a lot of players that don't want the Fade nerfed and are extremely powerful with it. Even such, I hate to say, it's just not right that I consistently see Fades with great k:d ratios and barely anybody going Onos unless it's a dominating Alien performance. There has to be incentive to spend the 84 res as Know pain pointed out, and there just isn't. Paying for a Fade, living longer and getting more kills is certainly more appealing.
I think a Fade nerf in some capacity is coming. I don't see them giving the Onos that necessary power boost (whether that's a new ability or health/armor boost) without taking away some of the Fade's power.
Stomp works perfectly for the onos, you just have to be 3 feet from the marine for it to work.
Exactly... and the thing is, the level of stupid the marines have to exhibit for you to catch a group of them in a 6-feet diameter is kind of beyond me. I don't really know if its range and shape is the only reason it's useless compared to before, but I feel like it's just much worse/useless of an ability nowadays...
I like the bone sheild idea. Atleast it would make the onos good at what it is supposed to do, soak up bullets. Right now the onos as way to little health to be an effective tank.
I'm all for buffing the Onos, but it would be nice if we could dodge stomp.
You can: Jump or use a jetpack.
I've jumped plenty of times and never ever dodged it, or seen someone else dodge it.
Hmm suggest you go do some more play testing as its definitely able to be dodged.
Some ppl used to bitch that the animiation was out of sync...but I never found it an issue.
With this and the diggest ability UWE is going to introduce in the new content patch onos will be feared again.
Oh god no... do you mean digest, as in devour? Why oh why must UWE solve balance problems by introducing annoying features? I sincerely hope they consider other ways to balance. The Onos just needs a proper buff. No need to piss marine players off to gain balance. Insta-kill features are just not enjoyable, neither to the victim nor to the user.
I don't know about you, but I for one enjoy gibbing skulks with my railgun laser of doom. Hold for half a second, point at skulk, watch the light show, and hey easy kill. What's not to like? It's such a shame what UWE did with the nades, but still a potent bs killing machine in the right hands!
A bit of self-bumpity, but I guess it still serves the discussion here.
Back in the beta days, I suggested a more adaptible, player controlled acceleration system for onos. The basic idea was to make onos movement speed strongly related to adren management and allow players to produce both explosive speed bursts and more constant roaming at their will.
I don't know if a big rework is still possible, but I feel something like that system is necessary to make onos fit into the game in a healthy long term way. Otherwise we'll be stuck with a lifeform that has no skill scaling and very limited ways to interact and adapt with the rest of the game. Giving it the flexibility means a much more meaningful gameplay experience and far more ways to balance the onos and make it fit into the alien tech tree.
Onos turned from fearsome beasts of war to scared fat cattle in the last patches. Most of the time, you see them running from something. The late-game alien ability to break the turtle suffers in effect.
Onos turned from fearsome beasts of war to scared fat cattle in the last patches. Most of the time, you see them running from something. The late-game alien ability to break the turtle suffers in effect.
Also I am so not letting you into our country, the hat is a dead giveaway.
The real problem with onos is how easily a base marine can take them down especially once weapons 1-3 are researched. Exos just make onos even more embarrassing when rushing into a base. 3 LMG marines + single mini exo will make very very short work of 1-2 onos.
So I think if we limit the damage the LMG does to an onos it would really help this situation. Maybe buff the onos armor by 100 -200 and make LMG do light damage so it does not tear through its armor so fast.
Comments
It’s sad to see that pretty much everyone wants to see the devour come back on the onos but UWE stand point has been “nah we don’t want to.” This would pretty much put a stop to the one marine chasing after the onos, in NS1 when this would happen the onos would do a quick 180 and gulp.
I am far more scared of a fade than I am of an onos. While the fade has less HP it’s far faster harder to hit and does about the same damage. The onos is far, far slower and has always been a bullet sponge.
Otherwise you are really downplaying bilebomb's effectiveness against structures and exos.
Waste of res, especially compared to Fade. Fades are even more useful for breaking turtles now, how ****ed is that?
It's not just a L2P thing. Onos was fine before 250.
Bilebomb could really take a range increase since the damage is so low right now. At least I found the old overpowered bilebomb that forced the marines out to hunt the gorge more fun to play than all the turtles we have to endure now. And in the end, its the fun we should focus on.
Also... Old thread regarding bone shield: http://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/124382/when-is-the-bone-shield-for-the-onos-coming
Basically, you leave Onos as they are and nerf Fade hp, but instead increase the Biomass HP scaling (and maybe Carapace). This makes the early Fades and Onos a lot less intimidating, yet allowing them to kill off the marines at the end (especially with four hives).
Also: Don't try to solve the turtling problem by buffing aliens. Aliens are fine. We should look at marines. Apart from dual exos, they have their whole tech available at one base. That's ridiculous. Shift some tech from the first to the second CC (maybe aw3, both minigun exos) and turtles will become less of a problem.
You can: Jump or use a jetpack.
Besides gl’s and arc’s you have exos for structure damage but here’s the thing:
Rail gun exo – 40 p res
Single mini gun exo – 40 p res
Dual minis gun exo – 60 p res
Onos 60 p res + 3 abilities 24 p res = 84 p res
Now I’m not that great at math but even I can tell there is something wrong with that.
If UWE is going to continue to nerf the onos thing bring back bile bomb to what it was. Otherwise aliens are going to be left with nothing but the fade and vet players telling new player to “get better.”
four onos have a lot of life. everyone on chair with a bit of enzyme is adead chair
Four onos have a lot of life, four onos getting to chair with a drifter is a good idea but only when every alien is on spot. Also providing there are no exos.
true enough, so everybody do your job, and kill those res towers.
- Range. Yes, it was annoying as marine in the beta when the onos had a huge hit range, but now I feel like your model actually has to be inside the marine that you're about to hit for the hit to land. Is the hit range actually shorter than a skulk bite now? It feels that way, maybe relative to the onos' size. In a fast-paced game like this, that's not great. It also makes it WAY too easy to get trolled from ledges and elevated surfaces that were possible to hit with the longer range before.
- Stomp. What happened to it? It was actually really nice before when there was a longer shockwave in front of the onos. Now, first it's a circle around the onos, and even that hardly ever works. I haven't been playing onos too much (I don't like it in general), but when I have, the stomp has been ridiculously useless. I actually used to use it a lot, especially stomping 3 marines together and then hitting them, or having teammates hit them. Now, first the stomp wave is way short, and second it either doesn't work on marines on a different "level" platform right next to you, or they jump over it?? In my opinion, if it's going to remain crappier and circular like this, UWE really need to take a hard look at the code for the stomping, and make sure it works on all marines who are even on different surface levels in a sphere around the onos, but not jetpackers. I feel like now it's some kind of 2d circle calculation, and it's failing pretty hard.
- Removal of strafing while sprinting. All-around a terrible decision IMO.
- Sprint/charge hits. Do they not work anymore, or is it just me? Like I say I hardly play onos and I don't play NS2 like I used to a few months ago, but it seems like hits always do 100 even if you sprint-hit.
- Stomp: Is utterly useless. Time is much better spent by goring. Even if there's 3 marines standing right infront of you on level ground you're lucky if you get 2 of them down. Buggy as hell.
- Removal of strafing while sprinting: Actually, 250 removed strafing from alot of things. Try to do a strafing jump. Marine? Not gonna happen. Skulk? Not happening. Onos can do this, but how useful is a strafejumping Onos... Something to do with the new bunnyhopping code I guess.
Edit: To clarify: A strafejump that also goes forward. Aka jumping diagonally.
Oh god no... do you mean digest, as in devour? Why oh why must UWE solve balance problems by introducing annoying features? I sincerely hope they consider other ways to balance. The Onos just needs a proper buff. No need to piss marine players off to gain balance. Insta-kill features are just not enjoyable, neither to the victim nor to the user.
I feel it soon may be time to create a proper thread about this. Sacrificing fun for balance and "balancing" the game by making drastic changes instead of just actually lowering or increasing numbers is a slow but sure path towards a diminishing player-base due to frustration. I'd be among the players leaving for sure if we had to deal with devour as well as fades on a daily basis when playing marines. I'd like more creatures based on skill, not waiting around a corner and insta-killing just because i have to do something to make up for the high cost of the otherwise useless Onos.
Are you mad? Two 10-res creatures should not be able to devastate dozens of res of equipment in ten seconds. That's what an Onos should be for. We already gain access to bilebomb from the first hive now. You'd have to move it to the third hive for it to be as powerful as it once was.
two 5 res lifeforms can't unless there are badly placed vents, or an inattentive comm. leave lanes open and you deserve to be gorge rushed, leave PBS coverage shoddy in pub, you deserve to be punished. same thing for ninja phase.5 marines can take out a hive really really fast.
I'm sure we will see some changes to the Onos/Fade conundrum in the next build. I know there are a lot of players that don't want the Fade nerfed and are extremely powerful with it. Even such, I hate to say, it's just not right that I consistently see Fades with great k:d ratios and barely anybody going Onos unless it's a dominating Alien performance. There has to be incentive to spend the 84 res as Know pain pointed out, and there just isn't. Paying for a Fade, living longer and getting more kills is certainly more appealing.
I think a Fade nerf in some capacity is coming. I don't see them giving the Onos that necessary power boost (whether that's a new ability or health/armor boost) without taking away some of the Fade's power.
Exactly... and the thing is, the level of stupid the marines have to exhibit for you to catch a group of them in a 6-feet diameter is kind of beyond me. I don't really know if its range and shape is the only reason it's useless compared to before, but I feel like it's just much worse/useless of an ability nowadays...
I've jumped plenty of times and never ever dodged it, or seen someone else dodge it.
Some ppl used to bitch that the animiation was out of sync...but I never found it an issue.
I've seen people dodge it - mostly when I used it.
I don't know about you, but I for one enjoy gibbing skulks with my railgun laser of doom. Hold for half a second, point at skulk, watch the light show, and hey easy kill. What's not to like? It's such a shame what UWE did with the nades, but still a potent bs killing machine in the right hands!
Back in the beta days, I suggested a more adaptible, player controlled acceleration system for onos. The basic idea was to make onos movement speed strongly related to adren management and allow players to produce both explosive speed bursts and more constant roaming at their will.
I don't know if a big rework is still possible, but I feel something like that system is necessary to make onos fit into the game in a healthy long term way. Otherwise we'll be stuck with a lifeform that has no skill scaling and very limited ways to interact and adapt with the rest of the game. Giving it the flexibility means a much more meaningful gameplay experience and far more ways to balance the onos and make it fit into the alien tech tree.
Also I am so not letting you into our country, the hat is a dead giveaway.
So I think if we limit the damage the LMG does to an onos it would really help this situation. Maybe buff the onos armor by 100 -200 and make LMG do light damage so it does not tear through its armor so fast.