Infestation,ridiculius Kharaa Strategy.

Question · January 2003

<div class="IPBDescription">Its bs.</div> Anyone seen this before? :

Gorg waddles into a hive secured with numerous turrets and a phase gate.He spams OCs and DCs.Turrets start firing at the OCs but they CANT do enough damage to kill them before they go up and start spitting their 40 damage spits at the turrets and marines.The marines of course phase in and start shooting but it is well known that marines cant do enough damage with LMG to stop the infestation as the gorg assisst in healing the OCs.Coupled with skulks attacking the marines and the phase gate,maybe lerks hitting the Turrets with spines,and wham say goodbye to a hive.

3 turrets firing at an OC + 3 marines firing LMGs at it and a gorg can heal the OC so much that the HP meter is going UP?

OMG.

Seige you say?By the time you get seige its too late.

And seige turrets cost way more expensive than OCs.....coupled with the TF upgrade.

I have a solution.

Reduce gorg healing amount/rate or increase the adreline needed for buildings,increase OC build time,decrease OC starting HP so that they can be killed faster in the "building phrase".Edit : Perhaps requiring the gorg to hold down the "e" button like the marines to build.

Evil_Timmy · January 2003

A single LMGer can pretty easily take down a 2OC/2DC wall, especially with turret support. And it shouldn't be too hard to dash behind (or go around) and take out the gorge, then the DCs, then let the turrets finish off the OCs.

SaintPeter · January 2003

My first reaction is:
"Well, you really ought to build a Siege Turret in your base."
The first OC the Gorge builds is gonna kill him instantly (via Siege). I belive that unbuilt OCs can be wiped out with a single Siege Blast.
If you don't have a Siege in your base you are not paying attention to this valid tactic.

My second reaction is:
"Maybe you have a <i>little</i> bit of a point."
Gorges should not be able to spew out a huge amount of anything all willy-nilly. Either tie it to adrenaline, as suggested, or make a can't built more than once every X seconds (2? 3?) I don't know what would be enough.

peacekeeper · January 2003

That's what you have motion tracking and sentry firing warning for. I've used this tactic several times to take a hive all but solo, but 9 times outta 10 im assassinated by a group of 3 or so marines that respond to it before you get far.

Besides, marines do it to aliens every game, build some turrets, take down a hive. Why can't they do it back <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'>

NutheaD · January 2003

Simple solution...

Kill the Gorge OR
if the infestation is already pretty bad...
grab a GL and start chucking it at that thing
OR

If a GL is currently unavailable just try to get around it and start shanking the DT. Usually there is a sory of niche were the OTs wont be able to get a good shot at you before you take down those DTs

Your proposed balances dont make any sense. Just cause of one strategy your willing the change the mechanics of an entire class? Try using on of the above methods or find your own strategies to counter it.

rebo · January 2003

Bit silly really to hold a hive and not build a pre-emptive siege?

Vash · January 2003

It's not BS. It's called a STRATEGY. I always do this when i'm gorge, because it works. Reducing the amount heal spray heals would be stupid. If they reduced that, then they should also make Med packs heal only 25hp and allow the comm to only drop 2 every 3 or 4 seconds, because as of now the comm just spams health EVERYWHERE and marines cant die. If you have a turret farm and 3 marines that can't even take out ONE OC, then that's just pathetic on your part, and that's also one damn good gorge. And, like rebo said, you shouldve had a few of those lame siege turrets there anyway.

SemperFi · January 2003

Its a perfectly valid tactic and i think its a rather good strategy with some skulks/lerks. Come on people lighten up, noone complains when you marines ip/phase rush to the hives and camp the skulks spawing while you set up turrets.

They are both valid tactics. Just deal with it. If it can be easily prevented by a premtive siege why do you want the devs to in and rebalance gorges, which you know will effect other units balances, and just waste the devs time.

AcKz · January 2003

OT Rush is a valid tactic, and a very desperate one at that. Why are you complaining again..?

Tempest · January 2003

I fail to see the problem. =p It's very easy to stop and not easy for the gorge to accomplish (he can die easy and it costs money). It's not like gorges can just keep rushing in building more OT's or DC's, those things cost money you know. =p

T_RAT · January 2003

I quite like that aspect where a gorge can span OC's outside a hive a take it.
This teachers the commander to always build a siege at a hive when he can, or his marines to jump over and kill the gorge.
This at least gives them a chance when the marines have two hives and theres nothing to do.

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='pudgy.gif'>
<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/siege.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='siege.gif'>

Zerglin · January 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Evil Timmy @ Jan 4 2003, 03:14 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>A single LMGer can pretty easily take down a 2OC/2DC wall, especially with turret support. And it shouldn't be too hard to dash behind (or go around) and take out the gorge, then the DCs, then let the turrets finish off the OCs.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
Uhhhhh.... One LGMer can barely take out even one OC... and it takes a long time too... just long enough for you to y'know... alert a horde of hungry hungry skulks...

Vash · January 2003

This actually gives a purpose to the offense chambers. I'm sure we all know that unless a retarded marine rushes at a huge wall of OC's, all they do is delay the marines movement. Unlike the uber Marine turrets that are 99.99999% accurate and very hard to kill, the Alien OC cant hit ****, the projectile moves too slow and has ZERO ACCURACY. As a marine you can crouch in front of an OC and it will shoot right over your head every time. Maybe OC's were just meant for this, neh?

Silver_Fox · January 2003

its a valid tactic ...

those defense and offensive chambers are not cheap

if he wants to waist them all there rather then securing the other hives, eh - what ever floats your boat ...

GWAR · January 2003

Its a last resort tactic, nothing wrong with it.

Maveric · January 2003

viable and legal tactic.

as is everything is in war.

cept' cheatin'. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='mad.gif'>

Ahnteis · January 2003

I think it's stupid that 4 marines can have a tf and those huge HP turrets up so fast. I mean, they all just build it and BAMMO, you can have 10 turrets in like 30 seconds.
<img src='http://forums.invisionpower.com/html/emoticons/rolleyes.gif' border='0' alt='user posted image'>

Vyvn · January 2003

If the team's only gorge wants to use all his resources spamming OCs in generally random and useless locations to take back a hive which he will then not be able to build because of a lack of resources, more power to him. It seems difficult, rare, realistic, costly, but effective enough that I see no reason this shouldn't go in every gorge's handbook.

Kenichi · January 2003

Gesh have you never seen a gorge rush? imagine 5 gorges running into your marine base all dropping turrets. In moments they max it out and procede to max out defense towers. You complain about a few turrets. You havn't seen anything yet. Just because you see something once doesnt mean its common either.

parkan · January 2003

Heh, if you can't prevent a gorge rush, it's your own fault. If the othe team has enough rp to have several gorges AND at least 60 rp per gorge for the turrets early in the game, well, you've done a poor job controlling the map's resources, or your base defenses suck. 2-3 marines can easily take down a single OC in seconds, and gorges aren't bulletproof, either. Now if a gorge is sneaky enough to slip under your radar, into the CC area (such as on caged) and build a turret farm, and then expand out into the rest of the base, while the team's skulks and lerks prevent marines from b uilding sieges or attacking unfinished chambers, well, that's one good team <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'>

uranium_235 · January 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Evil Timmy @ Jan 4 2003, 03:14 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>A single LMGer can pretty easily take down a 2OC/2DC wall, especially with turret support. And it shouldn't be too hard to dash behind (or go around) and take out the gorge, then the DCs, then let the turrets finish off the OCs.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
Gorges can take a lot more punishment then I ever thought. On Tanith, a gorge was building outside our base at the reactor. I ran out and found him in the corner. I emptied a magazine in him point-blank and I can't remember if that killed him or if I needed to put a pistol round or two in him.

The amount of damage the aliens can soak up is rediculous.

Vigilante · January 2003

It seems to me to be a problem with the damage model for unbuilt/fully built structures. I haven't tested any numbers on this, but it seems if a structure is taking damage while being constructed, it's restored to full health once construction finishes. This leads to things like OCs, TFs, RTs, and such soaking up more damage than perhaps they should.

Anyone have a better handle on the specifics of that?

Nubi · January 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>start shooting but it is well known that marines cant do enough damage with LMG to stop the infestation as the gorg assisst in healing the OCs</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

Oh? Really? I'll have to remember that next time I take out some offense chambers, I often forget that I "cant do enough damage" to kill it and it somehow dies anyways, thanks for the reminder bud.

Forlorn · January 2003

There is nothing cheap or wrong with gorge rushing with OC's and DC's.

I mean, if the gorge has that much cash to begain with...

Then your team sucks anyways, and you deserve to lose to this.

Also, if your team is half decent, you can just kill the gorge and end it.

THE END - Learn to shoot/think <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='pudgy.gif'>

Now, to those who think that marines turrets are unfair?

Bull crap. Marine turrets suck.

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='turret.gif'> VS. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='skulk.gif'>

Guess who wins?

CHOMP

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='skulk.gif'> = The winner, providing he has lv. 2 and above carapace.

Ahnteis · January 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Now, to those who think that marines turrets are unfair?</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

Perhaps the sarcasm wasn't dripping enough to be evident?

NumbersNotFound · January 2003

This is a valid tactic dubbed teh "chamber rush"

It's basically a last resort to take a Marine base when you only have one hive.

Ph0enix · January 2003

Chamber rush is a valid, high risk - high gain, desperate and one shot tactic. Nothing wrong with it.

Umbraed_Monkey · January 2003

its rediculously funny if you can pull off something like this next to the cc in ns_caged. think about it, theres the cc, you (a gorge), a few ocs, perhaps 1-2 dcs, and many desparate marines scrambling up the ladder _and_ trying to survive the oc barrage. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'> but as mentioned before, something like this takes a lot of skill, luck and res. many things have to go right including:

-you are a skillful and lucky enough skulk to reach the cc unnoticed
-you can go gorge AND build AND have enough res to build a few ocs
-you can build the ocs close enough to the ladder so that it targets the marines coming up before the cc AND not so far that the marines can pick it off from below too easily
-you can 1v1 the comm as gorg when he comes out to kill you
-comm too n00b/slow to build another cc elsewhere
-marines too n00b/slow to tell comm to build another cc
-you have enough res to build a respectable amount of chambers there 2-4 is a good amount
*if you havent noticed, most - if not all - of that requires a lack of skill on the marine's team

its true, its pretty selfish of me to waste all that res for a little fun, but i did buy the rest of the kharaa some time right? and if successful (good luck!) you just executed a one gorge rush win!

pardzh · January 2003

You didn't build a siege... in your hive?

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'>

That's a well deserved "infestation" in my opinion.

Windelkron · January 2003

...

how could 3 LMG marines not kill a <b>GORGE?</b>

if the respawning soldiers didn't notice the fat little bugger in their own base, they deserve to lose. I've never seen this tactic before... considering how it COULD NEVER WORK. I'll only believe you if you provide a demo and evidence that it wasn't all staged.

:rolleyes: if there was a :rolleyes: smiley.

parkan · January 2003

Heh, I should have really recorded a demo <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'>

It was ns_caged and all marines were eselwhere happily securing a hive. No phase gate yet (a skulk ate the observatory a minute before). I managed to sneak past the turrets into the little commander area and evolved to gorge. I placed two OCs such that they could attack the CC as well as the ladder leading into the alcove. I did not build them completely, hower, but built a DC first instead, to heal myself up and to avoid having to spam healing spray once the OCs were compelte. When they went up, the marine team was naturally dispatched back to the base, but our skulks kept picking them off, leaving me enough time to build another D chamber and two OCs overlooking the base itself. Unfortunately, the IPs were out of the chamber's firing arc, and after having destoryed the CC and getting about 12 kills from the chambers plus a couple heal spray kills, I fell to a siege the marines managed to construct while the ocs were distracted with something else. They had a cc at another hive by now, but it set them back quite a bit, and we won that round <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'>

Infestation,ridiculius Kharaa Strategy.

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