I don't play anymore >.<
A_Gay_Possum
Join Date: 2013-08-31 Member: 187372Members, Reinforced - Supporter
Join Date: 2013-08-31 Member: 187372Members, Reinforced - Supporter
I've been an NS player since very early NS1. I pre-ordered NS2 as soon as I heard it was coming out. I've been playing NS2 constantly since it's release. When I play in a server, 90% of the time I will be on top of the leader board, in both K/D ratio and score, whichever side I play on. I'm not saying score and K/D ratio matters in a team game, but I will be using it as a reference point for this post.
One day, I login to have a nice game of NS. I join a server to find that things look very different. "That's strange" I say to myself, I didn't see any news about an update. I start to play and I realize that I am lagging horribly, as well as everyone else. Warping around corners in reverse. Fun! I also notice that I can't aim anymore, my mouse feels 'off' but I don't quite know why. I turn on alien vision; OMFG MY EYES. I go to chomp on a marine. HE FLIES AWAY FROM ME? What just happened?! I join the marine side and realized you have a lot more mobility. Then a skulk ambushes me. I jump my heart away, but since I can no longer aim because my mouse feel has been changed in some way, I land up emptying a few clips into the wall. Fast forward what feels like 5 min into the skirmish, I'm still hopping away not hitting much and then I finally kill the skulk. He got a total of one bite on me the whole time. I take a look and the name of whom I've killed; it's a player that I've played with many times and he is more than decent. The more I play, the more it feels like someone accidentally dropped an alpha patch on me. Alright, no more confusion, I'm going to read the patch notes. I log off NS and find there are no patch notes. What the hell? Read the forums, find out they dropped a pretty much unplayable beta patch on us so they can test it for the free weekend. Good news is that the final version will be coming soon. Well, I'm not in the mood to be a beta tester, I just wanted to have fun. The state that the game is in now is not fun at all.
The final release is out! Joy! I read through the patch notes quickly and hop onto to my favorite server. I'm glad to see that I'm no longer warping backwards through the map. I still cannot aim because of how my mouse feels. I start on marine and I'm at the bottom of the score board by the end of the game. What the hell. Hop on aliens, turn on alien vision; *shudder*. I sneak up on a marine and *poof* he's gone after the first bite. This 'uglier than a diarrhea sandwich' alien vision is not helping any either. After about 20 min, I rage quit. First time I've ever rage quit. I check the forums for a fix for my mouse and there is one. I try to apply said fix and it feels a lot better, but still not the same. I landed up spending about an hour playing with all the mouse settings, but it was all in vain. I find some settings that feel ok and try to get a feel for all these changes. After a few hours, the best I can do score wise is the bottom quarter of the board, but more importantly, I am not having fun at all. Quite the opposite of fun, actually. I then rage quit for the second time ever. The next day of play is pretty much the same story. After that, I stopped playing for about a week. I just went on today, and after 10-15 minutes of play, I rage quit again, with a total of 0 kills and 15 deaths on the alien side.
The last time I checked, I did not have an an aneurysm which caused me to lose my motor skills or brain function. When you make changes so drastic that one of the players that was previously at the top of the score board is now on the bottom, you've done something very wrong.
Let's get one thing straight; the skulk is supposed to be a powerful melee and ambush class. This is the way it's been since NS1 and if you ask me, that's the way it should be. What marines have as their advantage is range, and that is a huge advantage by itself. The way things are now, ambushing means that you'll have one bite over the marine, but all they need to do is strafe jump and shoot you in the face. Skulk is no longer the class that it's supposed to be. Alien vision is now ugly as hell, and it hurts my eyes, but one of the other functions of alien vision was to further cement skulks and fades as being powerful melee classes. As of now, alien vision is in such a way that it becomes harder to track marines in the heat of battle, and that is further made worse by the fact that every time you bite, you're blind for a split second. Pair that with marines new vanishing trick, and skulks are pretty much good for catching bullets. I found it very easy to dodge skulks before, but now it's just ridiculous. If my memory serves me: in NS1, marines didn't have anywhere near the mobility that they do now. If you let a skulk get near you, you were fucked, and it worked. There were none of these hopping fests that you get with encounters now.
I get the need for balance changes, but the changes of late have been too severe. You're changing the core of the game. When you make balance changes, they need to be more subtle. For example: marines are weak versus skulks? Why not try to increase bullet damage versus skulks. Simple and effective. The important part is, you're not changing the way that class feels to play. I've spent a large amount of time playing this game, and I've worked my way to become a good player. It seems like every update, all my time put into the game is worth nothing because there are so many mechanics I need to re-learn every time. This is extremely frustrating as a player.
Some of you may argue with me that this change is good for this reason, etc, etc. I don't really care about that. I am here to state my dissatisfaction about how things have been going, and why. The players are what make the game; and I'm here, as a player, to tell you: I no longer enjoy playing the game. When I get home, I no longer have the urge to jump into an NS game right away, or at all. Today was the first time I've played since Saturday and I usually play daily. I don't think I'll be playing anytime soon either. Do I think that you devs tried to make me hate the game? No. I think you guys have the best of intentions. I know you guys are an extremely talented team and I think great things will come of you, but I implore you: please change the way you've been doing things as of late. Drop an unplayable beta patch with no notice? That doesn't fly with me. I saw in the post that you didn't have enough beta testers. That was news to me, I never saw anything that said you guys were in serious need of beta testers. I often beta test games when the option is there, because it allows me to get a feel for what's to come. I didn't even know there was beta version available for me to play! It's also not the first time that a patch has changed the way my mouse feels. A few patches ago my mouse sensitivity reverted back to default for no apparent reason. It took me quite awhile to adjust it back to what I was used to. It's really frustrating when something like that changes for the simple reason of muscle memory. My brain knows (from repetition) that I need to move my hand X distance to get to X location on the screen. When you change that, that brain needs to re-learn it. Whatever was changed with the mouse has made the game unplayable for me, and I know I'm not the only one. In a first person shooter, if you make a change that affects the mouse feel in any way, *STOP*. Revert those changes and try again.
Let's step back and look at 2 of the most successful game developers, Blizzard and Valve. They never bend for any deadlines and their release dates are almost always pushed back (episode 3 anyone?). Take a look at the results of that, all they make is gold. This patch you threw at us was rushed, and it's shows. Take your time to do it right. I really like the idea of Reinforced. It's something new, and I honestly hope it works for you. Sadly, I will not be one of the contributors, not with the way I feel about the game currently. Show me you can bring the fun back into the game, and I will vote and support you with my wallet, that is a promise. Take all the time you need, I will be patient.
Much love,
A Gay Possum
P.S FIX MY GODDANG MOUSE!!!
One day, I login to have a nice game of NS. I join a server to find that things look very different. "That's strange" I say to myself, I didn't see any news about an update. I start to play and I realize that I am lagging horribly, as well as everyone else. Warping around corners in reverse. Fun! I also notice that I can't aim anymore, my mouse feels 'off' but I don't quite know why. I turn on alien vision; OMFG MY EYES. I go to chomp on a marine. HE FLIES AWAY FROM ME? What just happened?! I join the marine side and realized you have a lot more mobility. Then a skulk ambushes me. I jump my heart away, but since I can no longer aim because my mouse feel has been changed in some way, I land up emptying a few clips into the wall. Fast forward what feels like 5 min into the skirmish, I'm still hopping away not hitting much and then I finally kill the skulk. He got a total of one bite on me the whole time. I take a look and the name of whom I've killed; it's a player that I've played with many times and he is more than decent. The more I play, the more it feels like someone accidentally dropped an alpha patch on me. Alright, no more confusion, I'm going to read the patch notes. I log off NS and find there are no patch notes. What the hell? Read the forums, find out they dropped a pretty much unplayable beta patch on us so they can test it for the free weekend. Good news is that the final version will be coming soon. Well, I'm not in the mood to be a beta tester, I just wanted to have fun. The state that the game is in now is not fun at all.
The final release is out! Joy! I read through the patch notes quickly and hop onto to my favorite server. I'm glad to see that I'm no longer warping backwards through the map. I still cannot aim because of how my mouse feels. I start on marine and I'm at the bottom of the score board by the end of the game. What the hell. Hop on aliens, turn on alien vision; *shudder*. I sneak up on a marine and *poof* he's gone after the first bite. This 'uglier than a diarrhea sandwich' alien vision is not helping any either. After about 20 min, I rage quit. First time I've ever rage quit. I check the forums for a fix for my mouse and there is one. I try to apply said fix and it feels a lot better, but still not the same. I landed up spending about an hour playing with all the mouse settings, but it was all in vain. I find some settings that feel ok and try to get a feel for all these changes. After a few hours, the best I can do score wise is the bottom quarter of the board, but more importantly, I am not having fun at all. Quite the opposite of fun, actually. I then rage quit for the second time ever. The next day of play is pretty much the same story. After that, I stopped playing for about a week. I just went on today, and after 10-15 minutes of play, I rage quit again, with a total of 0 kills and 15 deaths on the alien side.
The last time I checked, I did not have an an aneurysm which caused me to lose my motor skills or brain function. When you make changes so drastic that one of the players that was previously at the top of the score board is now on the bottom, you've done something very wrong.
Let's get one thing straight; the skulk is supposed to be a powerful melee and ambush class. This is the way it's been since NS1 and if you ask me, that's the way it should be. What marines have as their advantage is range, and that is a huge advantage by itself. The way things are now, ambushing means that you'll have one bite over the marine, but all they need to do is strafe jump and shoot you in the face. Skulk is no longer the class that it's supposed to be. Alien vision is now ugly as hell, and it hurts my eyes, but one of the other functions of alien vision was to further cement skulks and fades as being powerful melee classes. As of now, alien vision is in such a way that it becomes harder to track marines in the heat of battle, and that is further made worse by the fact that every time you bite, you're blind for a split second. Pair that with marines new vanishing trick, and skulks are pretty much good for catching bullets. I found it very easy to dodge skulks before, but now it's just ridiculous. If my memory serves me: in NS1, marines didn't have anywhere near the mobility that they do now. If you let a skulk get near you, you were fucked, and it worked. There were none of these hopping fests that you get with encounters now.
I get the need for balance changes, but the changes of late have been too severe. You're changing the core of the game. When you make balance changes, they need to be more subtle. For example: marines are weak versus skulks? Why not try to increase bullet damage versus skulks. Simple and effective. The important part is, you're not changing the way that class feels to play. I've spent a large amount of time playing this game, and I've worked my way to become a good player. It seems like every update, all my time put into the game is worth nothing because there are so many mechanics I need to re-learn every time. This is extremely frustrating as a player.
Some of you may argue with me that this change is good for this reason, etc, etc. I don't really care about that. I am here to state my dissatisfaction about how things have been going, and why. The players are what make the game; and I'm here, as a player, to tell you: I no longer enjoy playing the game. When I get home, I no longer have the urge to jump into an NS game right away, or at all. Today was the first time I've played since Saturday and I usually play daily. I don't think I'll be playing anytime soon either. Do I think that you devs tried to make me hate the game? No. I think you guys have the best of intentions. I know you guys are an extremely talented team and I think great things will come of you, but I implore you: please change the way you've been doing things as of late. Drop an unplayable beta patch with no notice? That doesn't fly with me. I saw in the post that you didn't have enough beta testers. That was news to me, I never saw anything that said you guys were in serious need of beta testers. I often beta test games when the option is there, because it allows me to get a feel for what's to come. I didn't even know there was beta version available for me to play! It's also not the first time that a patch has changed the way my mouse feels. A few patches ago my mouse sensitivity reverted back to default for no apparent reason. It took me quite awhile to adjust it back to what I was used to. It's really frustrating when something like that changes for the simple reason of muscle memory. My brain knows (from repetition) that I need to move my hand X distance to get to X location on the screen. When you change that, that brain needs to re-learn it. Whatever was changed with the mouse has made the game unplayable for me, and I know I'm not the only one. In a first person shooter, if you make a change that affects the mouse feel in any way, *STOP*. Revert those changes and try again.
Let's step back and look at 2 of the most successful game developers, Blizzard and Valve. They never bend for any deadlines and their release dates are almost always pushed back (episode 3 anyone?). Take a look at the results of that, all they make is gold. This patch you threw at us was rushed, and it's shows. Take your time to do it right. I really like the idea of Reinforced. It's something new, and I honestly hope it works for you. Sadly, I will not be one of the contributors, not with the way I feel about the game currently. Show me you can bring the fun back into the game, and I will vote and support you with my wallet, that is a promise. Take all the time you need, I will be patient.
Much love,
A Gay Possum
P.S FIX MY GODDANG MOUSE!!!
Comments
they make solid turd, but sweep it all away so you're left with tiny particles of minerals which look like gold but are actually more turd.
I think UWE delivers pretty good and every game messes up, just cause you can't see it doesnt mean there's no problems and UWE is updating pretty frequently and if you can't play NS2 for a few days untill they patch it then I think you should get something more important to do. And honestly, you can't compare Blizzard and Valve with UWE, that's just silly.
Have some patience.
That being said, at this time I only briefly skimmed your post. So regarding to your technical issues, if you haven't checked this thread out already I recommend you do so.
http://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/131701/microstuttering-input-delay-fixes-to-try
Windows Aero and any sort of overlay hooker(besides steam) seems to cause these issues currently.
the game was at least playable when the beta part stayed in a beta branch
then they pushed a disastrous balance patch which wasn't ready to leave beta. it was 95% alien wins in fair matches, even after redesigning the gameplay a lot... and they kept it that way for like 2 months
and then they released this latest build which is basically another beta
and then they asked for more money...
Fine, Alien vision is for dark rooms. What tool do you propose giving aliens instead to allow them to track floating marines?
New alien normal vision gives marines quite visible orange outlines like in L4D. Makes it much easier to track marines than without it like in previous patches.
Which begs the question of why change the palette at all, if all it does is have the same function with more eye strain and ugliness?
Someone who communicates as you do has no room to refer to another as "childish". The OP said themselves that k:d is not a good measure of potency in team games, but it is a marker of how well one is doing in combat. The assertion they then make is that combat was changed so drastically that they essentially had to learn the game all over again and that the balance has changed drastically as well. The comparison to AAA companies is mostly to point out that those companies don't treat full release games and their customers like a beta. While you could argue in some cases they do, the OP is asserting this is bad game design, and I'm inclined to agree.
If you want to disagree, at least be of use to the conversation and try to understand what's being said.
My k:d is still about the same, but the game is a lot worse to play for me as well. The alien bite bug, the marine boosted jump, the entirely failed inclusion of gorge web, the giant fade nerf, these are all very drastic changes to a game that should have been solidified after its release and yet it is still a testing ground. The OP has some pretty legitimate points, so again if you want to disagree, disagree with the assertions they actually make, not how they choose to make them.
I'm patient, are you?
First they put a big sign that they were in a need of beta testers. It was a month ago, if I'm not mistaken. Hugh did a video about it too, so they are not responsible for your unawareness.
The changes were made to make the game more accessible, more intuitive to new players and to address some balance problems. I like that they try different stuff, unlike many other companies, who only stick to what is proven and milk their player base.
Does it suck to have the mouse lag and the worse performance? Yes, it does but this is software and software breaks. Patience is a virtue, someponies say.
I don't get why people need that anyway...did none of you guys ever play some sort of arena shooter? Compared to arena shooters the combat here is quite slow in my opinion.
Because the old palette looked like something out of a cartoon?
We have no obligation to be patient a this point, if they wanted to "try" something, they had years and years of beta to do so. The game drastically changes frequently with nearly no reasoning from the devs as to why. Who told you they're changing the game to be accessible to new players? Adding in mechanics that aren't explained anywhere that are essential to movement and changing entire tech trees to be *less* intuitive does not make the game more accessible.
This is not a beta, so stop using the "but it's beta" excuse. At some point UWE has to be held to a standard, and if you're okay with massive overhauls that flip balance and mechanics around wildly long after the game's release, then you have low standards. I want the game to be good, I want it to be well balanced as well as fun and interesting, and having low standards and not holding UWE to any kind of standard is not going to make that happen.
Second, don't complain about not knowing about beta testing needs or patches if you clearly never visit the website they're on, Reinforced has been advertised for half of the summer, they made a post about how to apply for urgent beta testing, you are just simply lying or just didn't check the website for a few months.
I do agree about the mouse movement, the fix made it somewhat playable, but not the same. What did I do? Magic word: adapt. The same thing I did when I (succesfully) tested if a bigger mouse sensitivity gave a better performance when I was still pretty much a newbie.
Oh yeah, like people have stated, the alien vision has always been meant to be used in dark rooms, I always did better constantly using it but still only rarely used it because I love the graphics of the game, and I enjoy NS2 better when I can see all the amazing things there are in the maps instead of green and orange, so I love the change to the alien vision.
I could go on for a pretty long time, but I'll just end this with another thing I agree on: the marine jumping.
First game of Reinforced: I hop onto aliens, go try munching some 'rines, they jump away pretty far, I get the kill since I've gotten used to the playstyle of bite --> dodge bullets by running up a wall to close distance etc --> repeat.
The new mobility doesn't change anything if you do something like that, HOWEVER when I jumped on the marines, I was stunned of how easy it was to get away from a skulk, so naturally I dominated pretty much any skulk who tried to get a fast kill by just getting 3 consecutive bites in without any kind of advanced maneuvering, so all in all even though it promotes advanced skulk movement, imo all it does is make things harder for new skulks.
That's it, now I'm off for a few matches.
* Tries to revolutionize the update policy of games: Keeping them alive through change, instead of selling change through DLC.
* Gets hate because it doesn't handle it's game like Blizzard or EA.
Crazy world...
Most arena shooters don't have melee combat. Not to mention they have more visual clarity and simpler mapdesign to begin with.
2. marines shouldn't hop around, it's stupid. second jump should be like half as far as first.
3. marines need the weaker less accurate LMG from NS1, have the current rifle as a precision firing upgrade, then have HMG as an unprecise bullethose.
There's nothing revolutionary about free updates. Actually DLC was the revolution, if you have been playing video games online for more than 6-7 years you'd know this. Counterstrike, the first NS, basically any mod or online game got free updates to fix bugs and tweak content. This isn't new at all and the general standard of updating a game is that you fix what you can and you don't flip the game upside down in the process. You don't make huge drastic changes all in one patch with minimal testing and community awareness.
You're acting like UWE is a dynamic new bold dev team that's just getting sour graps from people who don't "get" their vision. They're doing what has always been done, they just aren't doing it that well.
Every of this new features need rebalancing of the previous stuff.
This is "normal" in an asymetric game an you can not compare new features in NS2 with new weapons in BF3 or another shooter.
You get this new features for FREE. Something like the female Marine would be an "Booster Pack" in the EA-world=5$ extra.
Instead of "Thank you UWE, that you still advancing the game 1 year after release", people complain about "Oh god, i have to relearn things again"
All this "relearning" is done within 1 hr. This is the time where to have 2-3 matches on the new biodome map.
"Oh god, a new map. I have to relearn where to go"
The playercounts are small compare to other multi-millionen dollar blockbuster games. What a suprise.
But without these updates, changes, improvements the game would be really dead.
To the OP: You never be on the forum before, noone knows you here. And as noone going to miss you here, have fun with the "gold making" developers.
Nope. Actually you are acting like you were the one to define how much a company can change their software. As if you had anything to say about it.
They change the game with updates to an amount normally only seen in DLC. And you complain about it. That's what I wrote and that's what you do.
+1
The old AV (even green ugly) was a huge asset for spotting marines that appear most of the time grey on grey (no re-skin involved) at close range and far away (especially on 1980x1200 resolution). It gives time to prepare an ambush. NS was never about 'arena' style combat (frag count). And with that; skulks could behave like hunters (some immersion).
Now it tends to CS style. You know you won't be able to ambush unless :
-you wait in some place for long.
-always micro moving to avoid gnarling.
-praying for the marine not to check your position first (left right).
Far too static (like the old sensory chamber), utterly weak, boring. Boring, even for marine that just don't get surprised any more. Where's the thrill and shivers ? It's a set back while everybody ask for more fun (marines and aliens at heart).
So you try to get closer like doors, small corridor. "If stealth isn't anymore, let's rush in there" (brute force style). There is no hunting with elegance anymore. Just because dumb marines whine. I think UWE should Just get'em a teat and forget em. It's not the alien fault if these loons never check sh**t.
Right now aliens at heart probably must be trying to find ways to "pump up" contrast on their monitors... It reminds me the days of old. But what makes me feel really angry about that is: It's the same issue we had on NS1, 8 years (at least) ago! damn! Why on earth we get back to that ? All NS1/2 decent player know this thing won't do the trick.
@OP :
Mouse : agreed
AV ugliest/useless ever : agreed
I guess I forgot that this isn't a a place for feedback, but for continual showering of UWE of giving us this wonderful game out of the goodness of their hearts for a profit.
If you want to make personal arguments or pretend like you're making some sort of stab at the injustice of the world with your pointy moral compass of truth you can continue to do so. I'll continue to point out faults in their development cycle, like how they're still in development after a full release. There are a lot of valid criticisms of the game and its updates, these are not "new gen problems", I've been gaming for 24 years and a good 12 of those has been on FPS's that started out as mods or standalone games on borrowed engines just like this one. I've seen what works and I've seen what drives people away and drastically changing your game several times after release has consistently driven people away from small games.
You and I have the same goal, for this game to be as awesome as it can be. We can't get there without criticism or people calling UWE out when they think they've done something wrong. If you can't stand to see people criticize UWE, then a forum environment is certainly not the place for you.
I haven't tried to stop you from posting or anything.
There sure is stuff to criticize on many things. (AV, Performance, overpowered aliens since spawn-chose-change)
But in my opinion, changing the game fundamentally isn't such a thing. And all I did was voicing that opinion.
I also don't believe that there are any evidence that changing a game in a big way drives away more people than it brings back. At least I came back to play after the first introduction of the balance mod. And there will always be people that whine about change. In every game. At every patch. But the people that came back to the game because it got interesting again doesn't create a whine-thread. They just play.