Tram

Blarney_StoneBlarney_Stone Join Date: 2013-03-08 Member: 183808Members, Reinforced - Shadow
in NS2 General Discussion
At this point I'm sure there have been maybe a hundred threads about this, and maybe nothing is ever going to be done, but are there any plans in the works to tweak this map to make the spawns a bit more balanced? North spawn is given a huge advantage over the Shipping spawn, as they come with easy access to more RTs and TPs.

The thing is, I've been thinking, and it honestly could be possible to make this map a bit more balanced with just a couple simple changes. Right now the imbalance is coming from the fact that the north side is overloaded with resnodes and tech points. It's very difficult to hold both Repair and ET simultaneously, and normally one team ends up taking one while the other team takes the other. So things end up looking like this in evenly matched games

North TPs: Warehouse, Server Room, RR/ET
South TPs: Shipping, RR/ET
North RTs: Warehouse, Ore Processing, Platform, Server Room, Mezzanine, RR/ET
South RTs: Shipping, Logistics, Observation, RR/ET

So 3 TPs vs 2 and 6 RTs vs 4.

So what I was thinking - what if we did just two simple things: 1. remove Server Room tech point and 2. remove the vent from North Tunnels to Mezzanine. This would make it much harder for the northern team to hold mezzanine, since they will always be in warehouse and will have to take a long route through either server/hub to get there. Additionally, since the north team will be in warehouse always, repair room will become a much more common expansion for them than ET, making it easier for the southern team to hold mezzanine. These changes would effectively end up altering the balance to this

North TPs: Warehouse, Repair Room
South TPs: Shipping, Elevator Transfer
North RTs: Warehouse, Ore Processing, Repair Room, Platform, Server Room
South RTs: Shipping, Logistics, Observation, Elevator Transfer, Mezzanine

2 TPs vs 2 TPs, 5 RTs vs 5 RTs.

This could potentially balance things up a bit. There would still be problems, such as Observation and Logistics being inherently easier to push than Ore Processing and Server Room, but it's a start. Of course, I have no mapping experience whatsoever, so maybe my idea is terrible for some reason I can't think of.
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Comments

  • NailoNailo Join Date: 2013-05-06 Member: 185138Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Supporter
    I'm not a mapper either but from what I've played, here is what I would do if I started warehouse. I'd concentrate most of my forces to ET, no matter what. On aliens or marines starting warehouse would always make me want to take ET because then I would have these RT's: Warehouse, Platform, Server, Mezzanine, and ET. vs taking Repair Room: Warehouse, Ore, Repair. That's a 5 to 3 ratio making ET the superior claim.

    I feel like decreasing number of paths and increasing the distance that the aliens have to mezz is a bad idea, if only because it means that I know as a marine that a alien can only come from 2 directions and cannot defend it easily if we just watch both directions.

    Also now with the new changes I feel like 2 tech point aliens just can't hold their own against 2 tech point marines.

    Just my 2 cents on the matter so feel free to ignore or offer a different opinion. I'm interested to see what you have to say about this or what others have to say on this as well
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  • JektJekt Join Date: 2012-02-05 Member: 143714Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited September 2013
    Can just move the platform RT south a bit. It's a favourable area to fight in as marines if you're positioned well, but it's so far north and the tunnels can be easily gorged that it's often just a free RT for north spawn.
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  • Blarney_StoneBlarney_Stone Join Date: 2013-03-08 Member: 183808Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    Nailo wrote: »
    I'm not a mapper either but from what I've played, here is what I would do if I started warehouse. I'd concentrate most of my forces to ET, no matter what. On aliens or marines starting warehouse would always make me want to take ET because then I would have these RT's: Warehouse, Platform, Server, Mezzanine, and ET. vs taking Repair Room: Warehouse, Ore, Repair. That's a 5 to 3 ratio making ET the superior claim.

    I feel like decreasing number of paths and increasing the distance that the aliens have to mezz is a bad idea, if only because it means that I know as a marine that a alien can only come from 2 directions and cannot defend it easily if we just watch both directions.

    Also now with the new changes I feel like 2 tech point aliens just can't hold their own against 2 tech point marines.

    Just my 2 cents on the matter so feel free to ignore or offer a different opinion. I'm interested to see what you have to say about this or what others have to say on this as well

    If north spawn rushes ET it ends up being the same as it currently is as far as RTs go (6-4) but at least it will be 2 tech points vs 2 tech points
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  • NailoNailo Join Date: 2013-05-06 Member: 185138Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Supporter
    Do you honestly think making it a 4 tech point map will balance it out more? I feel this will make it harder for aliens yes but besides that I cannot see the difference. Just curious
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  • NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited September 2013
    I used to like 4tp maps, but with biomass the way it is... They can compete but its just not ideal.
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  • Blarney_StoneBlarney_Stone Join Date: 2013-03-08 Member: 183808Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited September 2013
    Eh, I feel like aliens with biomass 6 and 2 sets of upgrades can compete with 2 tp marines

    And making it a 4 tp map will balance it out because it will stop being 3 TPs vs 2 for the northern spawn. As it is right now there are 2 northern TPs, one southern TP, and 2 contested middle TPs, giving the north a clear advantage
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  • zenefzenef Join Date: 2013-03-07 Member: 183762Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited September 2013
    Too many res nodes in north, solution:

    -Remove server room rt and remove it from being possible starting location(spawns only warehouse and shipping, but still tech point in server room).
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  • NeokenNeoken Bruges, Belgium Join Date: 2004-03-20 Member: 27447Members, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver, Subnautica Playtester
    I don't really mind the imbalance all that much, unless I'm playing competitive. Making either marine or alien spawn fixed would at least give both teams equal chances when playing Tram, instead of being subject to the luck of the draw.

    Other than that, moving platform RT a bit more south, as Jekt mentioned, could probably make north spawn a bit less OP in general.
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  • GoldenGolden Join Date: 2004-09-01 Member: 31169Members, NS1 Playtester, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, WC 2013 - Silver, NS2 Community Developer
    I honestly don't care where I spawn on tram these days. There are methods to deal with top spawn aliens, especially since their expansion speed has been slowed. I think the only changes I would consider making would be moving Platform resource node farther south in North Tunnels and moving the Mezz-North Tunnels vent somewhere else... maybe have it go to Hub?
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