Have any modders tried alterations with babblers? It would be interesting to know what would happen if...
A. Their speed was greatly increased
B. The damage they deliver was greatly increased, and/or
C. If you hit a marine with a baitball the babblers will xenocide that marine (otherwise they will attack normally)
how about add the ability for babblers to mini heal spray when the gorge heal sprays ?
Nice idea, like remote healspray if babblers are attached to someone^^
Edit: I'm also very confused by babblers count. You can create 9 but only 6 attach and the remaining 3 are just staying at that spot. When I'm shot and some of my babbles die / sacrifice themselfe for the greater good, I never know how many I need to recreate now.
They also need to be reattached after evolving (an upgrade for instance).
I've always been against babblers providing any significant offensive capabilities .. this game is meant to be player vs player, not player vs AI. We already have whips, hydras, arcs, and sentries, we do not need more.
Now as far as what to do with them? They are quite useless, and previously I had suggested they provide enhancements to defensive capabilities. I love the idea of them making the heal spray more effective, that is brilliant!
Also they should be able to be attached to any alien structure like clog walls / hydras to provide some active healing so the gorge can reinforce his defensive walls further. Or attach them to a harvester or hive to help heal and protect it while you tend to something else. The healing capabilities of all 9 babblers should equate to roughly 1 crag healing that same structure and of course each structure would have a maximum number of babblers that can be attached.
The babblers speed COULD be increased a little and I like the idea of sending them into an are to scout, they could give vision if they see a marine and if they bite a marine that marine could show up on all alien maps for 30 seconds much like parasite. Also they could be very useful to send into a marine base to let them suicide on mines. But considering the cost of mines vs the cost of babblers, one mine should blow up ALL babblers in a 5 foot radius. They should also have to set the mine off by destroying it like lerk spikes, not tripping it like a skulk.
I just had to come back and post this last idea.. how about if babblers adopt the abilities of the current hives that exist? For example if the aliens had a shade hive, the gorge could attach babblers to a harvester to hide it. If they have a crag hive babblers would heal the structure they latch on to, and if they have a shift hive the babblers would enhance the speed of structures, depending on what they do - harvesters would gain res slightly faster, hives would build / evolve faster, hydras would shoot faster etc. This would be great since babblers would finally scale through late game and be useful.
It's Super Effective!Join Date: 2012-08-28Member: 156625Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow
Aliens have so much more versatility than the Marines, while I think the above idea above is pretty interesting and cool. The fact remains that the Aliens could always shift their efforts at a crack of a whip to insta-build a hive with gorges, shift, and enzyme. Whereas Marines barely have anything of that nature.
It would simply come to the simple summary of: "Alien OP, Marine Win Ratio will drop". IMO Marine need cool things like, speed building, temporary defenses (much like clogs?) etc to give them the edge, but that's just me.
What if Marines had Echo, man that would be a game changer!
I think the biggest issue is the lack of AI. They always get left behind when the gorge moves around the map (unless theyre attached to the gorge) and they lack the drive to actually attack marines in a reliable and coordinated manner. They just sort of hang around.
It's Super Effective!Join Date: 2012-08-28Member: 156625Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow
I know, the whole weldable vent thing has been discussed to hell and back, I remember asking about that, but I think I remember it being dismissed for X reason and Y consequence.
Weldable Doors is probably bad, as it blocks both ways. Vents would be an appropriate choise as it limits aliens movement, to mirror crags limiting marines. At least in early game.
I've always thought that babblers should be a combat aid rather than a shield. Attaching them to people is a clunky process, and half the playerbase barely even knows it's possible. Intuitively when a support class can create minions, the purpose of those minions is self-defense or contributing to a fight. The notion that they are instead designed to latch on to teammates and soak a few bullets is not well communicated or well executed. And most Gorges just don't like spending their money in that way so it rarely gets used, regardless of effectiveness.
DC_DarklingJoin Date: 2003-07-10Member: 18068Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver
Seriously? A gorge played well is VERY strong.
Good gorges can be a very strong asset to the team while hardly dying. If you die early on as a gorge your team made huge mistakes covering you, or you took way to big risks. (or a combination of both).
As for babblers.. They aint that bad, its just that early game hydra's and tunnels are more cost effective then babblers.
While mostly a glorified armor, they can and will function pretty well versus that. I lost count how many exo's didnt kill me due to the extra armor.
Also babblers while doing puny damage, still do damage.. Point is setting babblers up without getting shot yourself, which is completely doable if you play gorge well.
its just for standard combat, spit is better.
Anyone got actual numbers (armor, attack dmg) about babblers? Does it scale? I doubt it does.
Thats the only things I found:
- Build 253: Babblers are now more resistant against Grenades but weaker against Rifles (2 shots instead of 4) and need to be researched.
- Build 251: Reduced Babbler hitbox size to make it fit the actual model size better
- Build 250: Fixed bug causing Babblers to sometimes freeze mid-jump while they are trying to cling to an Alien that has no more free cling points
- Build 241: Increased Babbler run speed from 5 to 7, Fixed bug that prevented an Alien from evolving if they had Babblers attached to themselves. Fixed bug where Alien attacks got blocked by attached Babblers.
I've always thought that babblers should be a combat aid rather than a shield. Attaching them to people is a clunky process, and half the playerbase barely even knows it's possible. Intuitively when a support class can create minions, the purpose of those minions is self-defense or contributing to a fight. The notion that they are instead designed to latch on to teammates and soak a few bullets is not well communicated or well executed. And most Gorges just don't like spending their money in that way so it rarely gets used, regardless of effectiveness.
Agreed. I wouldn't mind if the "meat shield" mechanic were removed completely, in favor of actually being somewhat useful in combat.
They were OP before the nerf with early game skulks being covered with them. Ever since the nerf I almost never use them. Now they're just bloating the game with useless content IMO. I hope UWE figures out a better application for them to make em worthwhile again though.
They were and always have been useless. I still love using them though (maybe make them free to make?)
Comments
A. Their speed was greatly increased
B. The damage they deliver was greatly increased, and/or
C. If you hit a marine with a baitball the babblers will xenocide that marine (otherwise they will attack normally)
Edit: I'm also very confused by babblers count. You can create 9 but only 6 attach and the remaining 3 are just staying at that spot. When I'm shot and some of my babbles die / sacrifice themselfe for the greater good, I never know how many I need to recreate now.
They also need to be reattached after evolving (an upgrade for instance).
You haven't played lots of games, then.
Now as far as what to do with them? They are quite useless, and previously I had suggested they provide enhancements to defensive capabilities. I love the idea of them making the heal spray more effective, that is brilliant!
Also they should be able to be attached to any alien structure like clog walls / hydras to provide some active healing so the gorge can reinforce his defensive walls further. Or attach them to a harvester or hive to help heal and protect it while you tend to something else. The healing capabilities of all 9 babblers should equate to roughly 1 crag healing that same structure and of course each structure would have a maximum number of babblers that can be attached.
The babblers speed COULD be increased a little and I like the idea of sending them into an are to scout, they could give vision if they see a marine and if they bite a marine that marine could show up on all alien maps for 30 seconds much like parasite. Also they could be very useful to send into a marine base to let them suicide on mines. But considering the cost of mines vs the cost of babblers, one mine should blow up ALL babblers in a 5 foot radius. They should also have to set the mine off by destroying it like lerk spikes, not tripping it like a skulk.
It would simply come to the simple summary of: "Alien OP, Marine Win Ratio will drop". IMO Marine need cool things like, speed building, temporary defenses (much like clogs?) etc to give them the edge, but that's just me.
What if Marines had Echo, man that would be a game changer!
How about weldable and destructible doors / vents?
Weldable Doors is probably bad, as it blocks both ways. Vents would be an appropriate choise as it limits aliens movement, to mirror crags limiting marines. At least in early game.
But yeah, let's stay on topic of babblers...
Good gorges can be a very strong asset to the team while hardly dying. If you die early on as a gorge your team made huge mistakes covering you, or you took way to big risks. (or a combination of both).
As for babblers.. They aint that bad, its just that early game hydra's and tunnels are more cost effective then babblers.
While mostly a glorified armor, they can and will function pretty well versus that. I lost count how many exo's didnt kill me due to the extra armor.
Also babblers while doing puny damage, still do damage.. Point is setting babblers up without getting shot yourself, which is completely doable if you play gorge well.
its just for standard combat, spit is better.
Thats the only things I found:
Agreed. I wouldn't mind if the "meat shield" mechanic were removed completely, in favor of actually being somewhat useful in combat.
They were and always have been useless. I still love using them though (maybe make them free to make?)