Please optimize shade objects

ns2isgoodns2isgood Join Date: 2013-04-16 Member: 184847Members
With shade - http://i.imgur.com/tqAQb6n.jpg
Looking away from shaded hive - http://i.imgur.com/aTRuNbX.jpg
Looking at marine base with lots of structures - http://i.imgur.com/IrNiJMZ.jpg

It's almost a 40fps dump due to shade.

Comments

  • TwigTwig Australia Join Date: 2013-11-09 Member: 189225Members, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Gold, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold, WC 2013 - Shadow
    edited December 2013
    ns2isgood wrote: »
    It's almost a 40fps dump due to shade.

    You are looking at more than a shade, there is infestation and structures.

    what settings are you running at

    Also what are your computer specs?
  • Ghosthree3Ghosthree3 Join Date: 2010-02-13 Member: 70557Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    Infestation is an fps rape. Also use r_stats not fps. Need more than just the fps.
  • SUPER_SARSSUPER_SARS Join Date: 2013-02-13 Member: 183039Members
    I started up a listen server and dropped a bunch of garbage next to a hive then shaded them all and lost 20 fps as soon as the shade went active.
  • Ghosthree3Ghosthree3 Join Date: 2010-02-13 Member: 70557Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    What graphics options?
  • ns2isgoodns2isgood Join Date: 2013-04-16 Member: 184847Members
    edited December 2013
    Everything on max besides atmospherics off, ao on medium, infestation low, dx9 @ 1024x768.

    i5 @ 4.2ghz, 560ti, 4gb ram
  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
    edited December 2013
    Would be a better FPS test if you rebuild everything, cloaked vs the same base non-cloaked :)

    Still as mentioned the infestation is probably the bigger FPS hog
  • Ghosthree3Ghosthree3 Join Date: 2010-02-13 Member: 70557Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    ns2isgood wrote: »
    ao on medium
    I found the problem. AO being on AT ALL will obliterate fps. Turn it off and enjoy your 30% fps gains.
  • NeXuSNeXuS US Join Date: 2013-10-13 Member: 188681Members, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester
    AO is not worth it.....at all. Unless you have an "overkill" PC. And even then, I would still be hesititant to use it.
  • ns2isgoodns2isgood Join Date: 2013-04-16 Member: 184847Members
    edited December 2013
    Ghosthree3 wrote: »
    ns2isgood wrote: »
    ao on medium
    I found the problem. AO being on AT ALL will obliterate fps. Turn it off and enjoy your 30% fps gains.

    I don't need 30% fps gains. My FPS never even drops below 70 in heavy combat with this really low resolution. The only thing that "obliterates" my fps is a shade structure. Even with AO off it still tanks.
  • Ghosthree3Ghosthree3 Join Date: 2010-02-13 Member: 70557Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    edited December 2013
    So you're always above your monitors refresh rate but you're complaining about fps anyway?

    Also your first image begs to differ about never dropping below 70.
  • ns2isgoodns2isgood Join Date: 2013-04-16 Member: 184847Members
    edited December 2013
    Ghosthree3 wrote: »
    So you're always above your monitors refresh rate but you're complaining about fps anyway?

    Is it really that hard to understand the problem at hand here? The problem is once the shade structure is present, looking at it makes frame rates tank. If you read up a few replies, there is another person with similar issues. Every aspect of the game runs perfectly fine for me, the problem is the shade structure. Even when beacons happen and there are 15+ people in a room my frames don't drop that bad. And that is comparing to an idle hive with a shade, when there is action by shade hive it will drop even worse.
  • Ghosthree3Ghosthree3 Join Date: 2010-02-13 Member: 70557Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    edited December 2013
    Try it with occlusion completely off. I wouldn't be surprised if it made the losses caused by shade much, much worse. If turning it off makes it much less of a loss then I don't see the problem.

    Get a base set up with a shade, look at it with your occlusion on, take SS, then go turn it off, and without moving the camera take another SS. Do with r_stats also.
  • RegnarebRegnareb Join Date: 2007-08-26 Member: 62008Members, NS2 Playtester
    Ghosthree3 wrote: »
    So you're always above your monitors refresh rate but you're complaining about fps anyway?

    Also your first image begs to differ about never dropping below 70.
    It's not because you have more FPS than your display can show that you won't feel it.

  • Ghosthree3Ghosthree3 Join Date: 2010-02-13 Member: 70557Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    ...You might need to rephrase that.
    If you mean that you can feel the difference in being sub 100fps even though your monitor is only 60hz then yeah, you're right. This game does seem to have that problem, not sure why. If that was the case though and he needed some more fps to not feel that maybe he should TURN, OCCLUSION, OFF.
  • ns2isgoodns2isgood Join Date: 2013-04-16 Member: 184847Members
    Only noticed a 10fps swing with AO on medium and off. Both hover 1-3ms waiting on GPU.
  • cooliticcoolitic Right behind you Join Date: 2013-04-02 Member: 184609Members
    While a lot of that FPS drop is from the structures and infestation, some of it is also from shades and I have noticed this too.
  • wopwopwopwop Join Date: 2013-08-23 Member: 187037Members
    My test

    1) structures without shade: http://i.imgur.com/Oi0MrLD.jpg 61 fps
    2) with shade: http://i.imgur.com/K8aWOKF.jpg 77 fps

    More than 20% fps reduction from 1) to 2).
    Notice the much higher number of primitives: 735k to 1175k

    This is explore mode, at 1680x1050, with most stuff maxed EXCEPT minimal infestation AND AO off
    Using DX9
    i5 2500k stock, amd 6950 2gb
  • Ghosthree3Ghosthree3 Join Date: 2010-02-13 Member: 70557Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    This makes sense then, when stuff is shaded because it's transparent what is behind is rendered. I guess it isn't the case (based on primitives) if it's not shaded. That is, if you can't see it, it isn't rendered. Can't do shit to optimise that, that's how rendering works.
  • wopwopwopwop Join Date: 2013-08-23 Member: 187037Members
    Yup, makes a lot of sense, and kind of unavoidable, if u want to keep the same visual effect :(

    Btw I did the same test in DX11, same other settings and I tried recreating the very same scenario in terms of structures placement.
    I had 77 fps without shade, just like in DX9, and 64-65 fps while shade was on... so DX11 *seems* to help a little bit.
  • ns2isgoodns2isgood Join Date: 2013-04-16 Member: 184847Members
    Ghosthree3 wrote: »
    This makes sense then, when stuff is shaded because it's transparent what is behind is rendered. I guess it isn't the case (based on primitives) if it's not shaded. That is, if you can't see it, it isn't rendered. Can't do shit to optimise that, that's how rendering works.

    That doesn't sound right, considering there isn't much additional rendering to show what's behind an object. I mean, how demanding can it be to render a small portion of a wall of floor?

    Here I maxed the 200 entity limit in one room and I still get 20 more fps (same settings as listed above) than a shade hive with a few objects.

    9nQUmI6.jpg
  • Ghosthree3Ghosthree3 Join Date: 2010-02-13 Member: 70557Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    Well it's not about just rendering what's behind it, because you're rendering what's behind it AND the thing you're seeing through (sometimes multiple) the shader also might be somewhat intense on rendering I admit. I'm just guessing here.
  • HeatSurgeHeatSurge Some Guy Join Date: 2012-09-15 Member: 159438Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    edited December 2013
    I think the way they're doing transparency (also "glass" etc.) is not through transparency, but through vertex shaD3rZ. Max can probably elaborate more, but it's not only the higher number of primitives and rendering the back faces IMO - it's also the extra strain on the shaD3rZ.

    And there's probably little to nothing that can be done about that, unless you want the "shaded" effect to also look more ugly. Buy better video card or lower settings, especially settings which are shaD3rZ heavy, like AO, shadows, atmospherics - in that order.

    Edit: @Max [Gong Sounds]

    Am I doing it rite?
  • Ghosthree3Ghosthree3 Join Date: 2010-02-13 Member: 70557Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    edited December 2013
    HeatSurge wrote: »
    Max can probably elaborate more
    No no no. You have to do it like this.



    @Max [Gong Sounds]
  • SamusDroidSamusDroid Colorado Join Date: 2013-05-13 Member: 185219Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, Subnautica Playtester, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
    edited December 2013
    Max is not going to reply no matter how much you want him to or call his name. He's incredibly busy with a lot of other more important things.
  • Ghosthree3Ghosthree3 Join Date: 2010-02-13 Member: 70557Members, Reinforced - Supporter
  • Dictator93Dictator93 Join Date: 2008-12-21 Member: 65833Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited December 2013
    @Max, we the members of the cabal, summon thee!

    :P
  • HeatSurgeHeatSurge Some Guy Join Date: 2012-09-15 Member: 159438Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    SamusDroid wrote: »
    Max is not going to reply no matter how much you want him to or call his name. He's incredibly busy with a lot of other more important things.

    Please do tell ;-) .
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