here we go again....
Fat_Man_Little_Coat
Join Date: 2003-12-02 Member: 23857Members
Join Date: 2003-12-02 Member: 23857Members
I get that the new players are in a way a boon to the community, but at what point does is this hand holding going to stop? Playing on green servers I get, but playing on non-rookie servers I still get a team that's half green. Okay, I get that too, but when I point out they should be really be playing on rookie servers I get flamed halfway to hell.
The cheapness of the game makes it so that many people want to just get into the game, without even bothering with the basics. "How long til Exos?" is something I expect in every game now, with no one playing as a team and getting an organized game is just about impossible.
And while pub games have always been messy, the influx has forced me to stack the teams because I want to play with the players I know, making it also unfair to the newbies, who get slaughtered. So we try to balance the game out, but it ends up being a half assed game because the com doesn't know how to drop medpacks, or (if I jump in the chair) most of the time the team turns into ducklings who follow the first marine they see and waddle as a group into the main alien hive and die, while leaving the base open to a rush.
Can we please, please emphasize that new players should really really go to noob friendly, noob only servers (highlighted in green) and not jump in the chair until reaching a certain amount of play time.
Sitting in a position waiting for a res node after asking for one for 5 minutes is getting frustrating, simply because someone wants to learn how to com, having "just got the game today, so chill man, its my first time comming".
I understand if its your first time, or you're just learning the game, but please, please go to a rookie friendly server.
rant over.
and for those saying I should play PUG, I really don't have the time, I like to jump in and play. While PUG and organized games for more veteran players sounds great, I really don't have that kind of time to invest.
The cheapness of the game makes it so that many people want to just get into the game, without even bothering with the basics. "How long til Exos?" is something I expect in every game now, with no one playing as a team and getting an organized game is just about impossible.
And while pub games have always been messy, the influx has forced me to stack the teams because I want to play with the players I know, making it also unfair to the newbies, who get slaughtered. So we try to balance the game out, but it ends up being a half assed game because the com doesn't know how to drop medpacks, or (if I jump in the chair) most of the time the team turns into ducklings who follow the first marine they see and waddle as a group into the main alien hive and die, while leaving the base open to a rush.
Can we please, please emphasize that new players should really really go to noob friendly, noob only servers (highlighted in green) and not jump in the chair until reaching a certain amount of play time.
Sitting in a position waiting for a res node after asking for one for 5 minutes is getting frustrating, simply because someone wants to learn how to com, having "just got the game today, so chill man, its my first time comming".
I understand if its your first time, or you're just learning the game, but please, please go to a rookie friendly server.
rant over.
and for those saying I should play PUG, I really don't have the time, I like to jump in and play. While PUG and organized games for more veteran players sounds great, I really don't have that kind of time to invest.
Comments
Love Thy Rookie And Rejoice For Him, For He Was You.
I feel if there are too many rookies joining this game each time, they will just up and leave because they won't get the understanding needed to grasp this game. Rookie's need to be fed in, in smaller numbers than the current playerbase each time, so they can learn the game properly in a proper environment, rather than rookie's leading rookie's...
Are you seriously complaining about new players behaving, I don't know, maybe...new? Like they've never played the game before so they may not realize that there are servers set up for new-comers?
And seriously, if you're desire for organized NS2 is so dire, that you can't deal with PUG servers behaving as such, then go find a organized team to play with.
Ranting on the forums does nothing in this case.
But it's something I can deal with, the potential for community growth far outweighs what I personally want.
I'd take a break for awhile, play as support or commander and help rookies or try to organize a competitive game of experienced players
And I'm suppose to accept this? If you read my post, I point out to the new players that they are not on a rookie friendly server, and I get flamed hard. And since the overwhelming amount of newbs zerging this game every other month now is a regular thing, all the regular players I've played with since the start have moved on. The community is basically a few die hards, a few comp clans, and then the other 80% of new players who zerg the servers every few months and then leave until this cycle repeats itself when the next sale hits.
Keep in mind, that a lot of these players we, the veteran community, are working very hard to support and embrace don't stay. They're paying 2.50 for something that most of us paid 10 times (if not more) so for. I think I got a great value, but that's not the issue, the issue is this is an expenditure of that equates to pocket change for most people. They simply don't care about the game that much, its only 2.50 to them.
And I've done my fair share of supporting the community, I'm just tired that a lackluster and lacking tutorial needs to be compensated by a community that has been extremely supportive of this company for years.
Hopefully a portion of the new players will stick around and keep the game alive. If I have to deal with waves of greens for a while for that to happen... so be it.
Compared to what? Omnipotent players who know how to play the game like a pro the minute they install it? You say you want more organized play (in Pub games lol), but "don't have the time to invest in it". That's your problem, not the game or communities or huge wave of new players. The only thing holding you back from getting that high level of coordinated play that you want is yourself.
The fact is, most of the servers are rookie friendly. The majority actually, the notion that people can't understand that some servers are not rookie friendly is fine, but when I tell them they're on a NOT ROOKIE friendly server, and they react like you do. Well, that's annoying.
You don't seem to understand what I'm saying. The high level of play isn't even that high level. I literally just played two games on non rookie servers. The first one the com dropped two robotics bays and an arms lab at separate places on the map on Mineshaft in the first 2 minutes. AND they got built. When I told the com he should recycle that, no response. Then I then switched to another NON rookie server, and joined a game 10 minutes in with two arms labs, and one robotics bay with literally only shotguns and mines as upgrades. With one player, raging (understandably) because he said this com hadn't said a word the entire game. Again, on NON ROOKIE SERVERS.
"Well, tell them to eject the com then!" you say. Most of the time, the new players don't even know how to eject the com. And when ttell them how to do it, they still don't do it, for whatever insane reason.
So I don't know what you think I'm talking about, but this is the state of the game for many, many people I've been talking to. Walking lerks that try to spike you as you walk up to it (on the ground) and shotgun it in the face. Skulks that walk up to you like it's your pet dog and you're coming home from work. Onos that stroll into the main base of the marines that is full. Exos that wander off un assisted, and by themselves like a broken robot. All this, while you are trying to tell them how to play the game, but they seriously don't care. Because they spent 2.50 on it. Why would they care? 2.50? I can't even buy a gallon of milk or a tank of gas for that amount.
Again, on rookie servers, fine, by all means. Experiment (not like theres a tutorial in game or anything). But when I try to tell you how to play, you don't comprehend, listen or give a care, I get annoyed. Especially when I see it on the few servers that don't cater to rookies, which have taken over the game like a zombie plague.
Sorry if I get annoyed by that "play style" and would like a few servers that actually cater to the actual game mechanics that are in the game. And keep in mind this happens every time there is a sale, or a humble bumble, or free weekend etc...
React like I do? I don't think YOU understand what I'm saying. You cannot force people to join other servers. Period. Here's a really good reason: Not all servers have the same ping. What would you wanna play on? The 20ping server that is not Rookie Friendly, or the 150ping server that IS Rookie Friendly? Really easy decision, huh? Now, heres the next good reason: The previous reason actually exists. If all servers had the same ping, this would be less of an issue.
So you're upset with Rookie players playing on Non-Rookie servers that, actually, play like Rookie servers? Shit's confusing man...
Never had an issue with this outside of telling people how to eject a comm a couple times in chat. Including games with 4-5 Rookies on my team.
Again then, Why are you having such a hard time with Rookie players playing on a Non-Rookie labeled server, but are in-fact still Rookie level games? And seriously? Don't care based on how much they paid for a game? I hope to god they notice they're getting the game for %90 cheaper. Don't expect other people to treat games the same way you do.
The other day I was almost dead as an onos on veil and saw there was a gorge in nano. I ran to the gorge and started hitting him, which is usually the code for heal me. The gorge just looks at me. I say over the voice chat, "HEAL ME GORGE!!1" because marines were en route. The gorge just looks at me and then marines come in and shoot me in the face.
I mean, sure, maybe he didn't know that right click would heal things. But man, the first thing I do when I play any game is test the buttons. All FPS games have the same button lay-out. Left click to attack, right click for secondary attack/aiming, wasd to move, number keys to switch weapons... so on and so forth. It's like these people don't even glimpse at the controls before they play.
Another thing: the rookies almost never communicate. I'm not asking you to be freakin' Kathy Griffin over the mic. Just say something, either in chat or over voice. Sometimes I'll address a rookie by name when he's doing something inefficient (attacking the extractor instead of the observatory, for instance) and he'll just keep doing what he was originally doing. It honestly wouldn't surprise me if they mute voice chat, don't play with sound on, or don't speak english. It's that bad.
Earlier today I had an alien commander that didn't know how to cyst. Even worse, I had a team that didn't care or know how to eject the commander. It was a full 24 player server too. "Guys, hold x and click eject"... 3 people out of the 11 vote to eject. I wish I had a emoticon to express deep depression and suicide contemplation.
And of course, the influx of new rookies has caused the stacking problem to become out of control. You now have 2 options in 90% of games: stack or be stacked. Red Orchestra 2 isn't this bad about stacking, neither was Team Fortress 2 or most online FPS's that I've played.
At least playing NS2 gives us the opportunity to appreciate the depth of Sartre's observation: "The hell is the other people."
-Yes, you can force people to choose servers, for example, I cannot join a few noob or rookie only servers. DFA runs a server that will ban you if they find you have 100+ played hours. If you are even suspected of being a vet player you face a ban. So yes, this does happen. In favor of rookies.
-Yes, I do have a problem when people treat non-rookie servers like rookie servers. Especially when there are many other options for them, when there are few for me.
-People are not ejecting. Heck, some aren't even conceding. I just played a game, where the com recycled the base, after 10 minutes had passed, because the team wouldn't concede. And it was a very lopsided game. For whatever reason they couldn't even vote together as a team. If you do not have this problem then no wonder you have no clue as to what I'm talking about. Just look two posts up, the same issue popped up.
-I have no problems with rookies, but these rookies are bad. Really bad, again. I don't think you understand my issue. Ask around, and even in this thread there are many who share my opinion.
I'm starting to suspect you're just trying to troll or argue. But this is something that I've talked to with many many other veteran players. Sometimes they bring it up, with out me even saying anything. Almost every server with a familiar player they've voiced this issue, and not just from this sale, but from the past few months.
Crying that there are new players on a non rookie friendly server isn't the smartest thing; since they just bought the game yet you expect them to know that there is a difference. Its been said time and time again that NS has a large/hard learning curve; it starts as soon as the game loads, not the rounds loading (aka server browser as well).
I personally have said it a few times: I'd rather have bad games now and have more than a few people playing the game in 6 months. Instead of having good games now with <200 people playing in 6 months.
A more organised match system will probably help.
That said, after that game, I did go back to my regular vet infested server for more high level play.
Just have fun and roll with it. Today's greenies are tomorrow's vets.
That's not forcing people to play on a server. That's adding restriction to a server that RESTRICTS players access. You cannot force a player to play on a less desirable server. All players go for the lowest ping server (that's well populated) no matter what. Does that mean it's always going to be a server perfectly suited for the skill-level? Nope. But damned if I'm gonna learn to play this game with a huge handicap.
I'm trying to point out that the Rookie/Server problem is not as easy as "Rookies should learn what server to join." The forums have been screaming for matchmaking for months now, and the most we've seen is the NS2Skill mod that some servers roll, which is better than the KDR shuffle option. You have to realize how heavily community dependent NS2 is for player retention. It just doesn't have all the fluff that other AAA titles provide for Multiplayer Matchmaking. So yeah, when people who are learning the game jump into their first server, they're really not gonna look out for the Rookie-Friendly tags. They wanna jump into the game and check things out/play around with it.
What DOES help player retention is getting these new players up to speed, being a good comm and teaching them through gameplay, and NOT getting frustrated with them just because you're not getting the kind of games you want.
Because veterans like me like to help out new players (at the same time I love killing them over and over again), as opposed to the real noobs on regular servers who simply insult and "attack" any new player that comes their way instead of helping them get better.
Please note I am not saying everyone on regular servers are like this, just that many are like this.
I always teach rookies (and enjoy doing so) but Omfg last night was the worst.. I began typing to ask if certain users even had sound on!
So when you comm (because people like us don't let someone command unless we get verbal confirmation of qualification beforehand) and they don't listen and proceed to beg for things, you remind them why you are denying them that medpack... Or why they're not getting exos.. You make it crystal clear to them
It's the only way some are going to learn this game - because they can't be asked to play a tutorial, watch videos, learn in sand box mode or practice with bots.
I am happy to politely point them towards a green server though.
"Noobs - Stuck in the middle with Noobs"
http://vocaroo.com/i/s1UraotqDbWQ
From: http://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/110181/natural-selection-songs
Lets get these rookies up to speed and this community bigger!
www don't mean World Wide Web anymore, now it's more like World Wide Whining
I try to avoid the green servers and if i see rookies on a "white server", well, i slaughter them.
There is a reason why a server isnt marked as rookie friendly.
Its great for the game that we have so many new players now.
But:
After playing one horrible game after another on "no rookie servers" i understand why people beeing upset.
Rookies have tons of "noob only servers" wich is great, so they can learn the basics there without getting slaughtered.
Non rookies have , aehm, servers full of rookies.
My problem isn't with the rookies themselves, it's with the rookies who act like they know everything with only 20 minutes to an hour of play time... Especially those who try to command!!!
New commanders aren't that bad when they listen to what the experienced players are telling them to build. However when a new commander is ignoring everything the vets are saying because he thinks his strategy of mass whips on 1 RT is better.... It seriously makes me rage, and it's compounded right now with the fact that we can't evict them because there are too many rookies on the team who don't understand how the comm is screwing us.
I hopped on this morning to play, and ended up suffering through 4 terrible games due to rookies jumping in the chair/hive. At least in the past we could evict them and have a chance at salvaging the game. Unfortunately that's impossible when 8 of 11 players on the team are rookies who refuse to evict because they think the comm is "learning"
I fully understand now why so many veterans have stopped playing.
PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD - Let the new guys know that we not only have a world championship, but also a all-year round competitive scene where people of all skill levels, with or without teams, can play together properly. This is the best part of ns for alot of people and uwe does nothing to promote this effectively during these massive player fluctuations.
Decent servers such as YO and HBZ already deal with rookies through natural selection <- haha PUN