Players!! If you join those servers you will find they are actually bots I'm sure some gather type games come up...
The problem with NS2 is the same problem with all modern FPS games... It's been dumbed down way to far, now while the skill level may be high relative to other games, the strategy level is nothing compared to NS1....
I remember spending time sneaking as a skulk to get in position, now if I spend 30 seconds sitting in 1 spot harvesters will die marines will push and I might get that sneaky kill that has no value...
I remember commanding marines and relocating to questionable areas because I saw strategic value (sometimes we were slaughtered because I didn't realise someone on my team would be silly enough to weld open the back door)
NS2 is far more fun then 95% of FPS out there but it lacks the strategic aspect of ns1. Games play out the same commanders do the same thing every game. There just is not the same degree of freedom that ns1 had...
Now to those who say its nostalgia and that a new game must be better then the old... NS1 did not start perfect, it started off much like NS2 did (needing lots of updates). But every aspect of ns1 forced teamwork and coordination, for marines commander dropped weapons. For aliens having no commander, want a second hive? Want some upgrades? You better work together and figure out who is saving for what... Ns2 on the other hand allows for Rambo and his brother to ignore the team needs turn off his headphones and run in circles... The result pub games in ns1 > ns2 because even in pubs on ns1 there was teamwork.
But IMO when UWE daydreamed up NS2 with dynamic infestation, power nodes... They focused on the new cool potential of their engine and assumed that the AvM would bring all that was NS1 into NS2... Somewhere along the line they lost that beautiful creation and sacrificed it to create a shinny new game that has spiffy trailers, novel gimmicks, cool graphics and some semblance of strategy...
I'll continue to enjoy NS2 because it is fun, but I maintain it's a step back in the gameplay compared to ns1...
5. Vents were at such an angle that many times no matter how good the marines were they were unable to shoot into vents allowing gorges to bile marines out.
Bilebomb does nothing to marines in NS1, only for buildings.
You know, there are still people who play NS1 daily. It's a lot of fun still after all the years.
Really? I uninstalled ns1 about 6 months ago because there were no more than a few players on at peak times.
Yeah sadly NS1 really died last year when halflife was updated. There are still some gathers going on every weekend but thats about it. No daily public games anymore.
NS1 was also difficult to apprehend at first, but at least you could be valuable to your team with some basic understanding of the game. And you needed a lot less time to get better with all the lifeform, and more importantly have some outcomes with them even if you sucked. At least it took a lot less time than in NS2, and your performances are much more rewarding and consistent throughout the games.
I understand the OP's statement, even though it could sound harsh to some people.
NS2 is an awesome game in the landscape of today's gaming, but playing some NS really have no comparison.
These people that don't agree with the OP can just be happy with your ever dwindling player base....... sure you may get a slight infusion of players during sales/events, but it'll just go back to where it was shortly after because of the state of what the OP mentioned.
It happened again: This game got the biggest number of new players ever 4 weeks ago. It peaked around 3500 people playing. This weekend down to 800 again. (taken from main ns2 page)
Pub stomping wasn't too serious for what I've seen. There been servers where every player was green.
Problem is that ns1 had a much bigger dynamic\free gameplay feel...
Ns2 is just wannabe ns1.....
But it kinda failed HARD, creating the same free open gameplay when it comes to stratergies that is viable both in and out of public plays... (Adding more stuff dosent make the game better...!!!!)
I think we can all agree that NS1 is a far better game than NS2.
anyone who's played both ns1 and ns2 extensively would agree to this, and UWE knows it, and they don't like it.
^this times 1000, how do you mess up a tried and true game like NS1? all you had to do was remake the same game with better graphics, that's all you had to do.
The game would be so much easier for these casual players, if you wouldn't set yourself in such a huge handicap by playing with having graphic settings higher than "low" or having them on at all. There's so many settings that help your individual gameplay, on top of client or server performance. Easiest comparison is between ns1 and ns2, we played the game on a very old engine, with computers meant for games a decade later. Maybe in 10 years all these casual players have finally catched up with their "atmosphere" settings on, whilst everyone else would have already stopped playing all together.
Back when NS1 was going heavy as a Half Life mod, there was nearly no PC gamers compared to today. It started off with its own errors, but over time they were corrected, the community was pretty strong back then, even tho' there were less overall numbers than today.
These rage posts / do what I want or the franchise / game has turned bad, is a mark from the new generation, you (never!) see an old school pc gamer whine about graphics, skill ceilings, grind or wonky development (always someone, but you get the gist). We were used to all those things being standard back then, and we quite enjoy those aspects because that's what made the games work, skill and teamwork took effort, there was no stats, no match record, no progression to your acc. You simply played and if you were good, you owned.
I understand the industry has grown very large in size since then, and people see certain standards enabled by the titan titels in their respective genre. Just please keep in mind, there is still a very large old school portion in nearly all the good games, who will always look at your whine (not constructive feedback, that is always welcome) and go: "Well then gtfo back to kitty world online, while we enjoy a good sequel to what really DEFINED a new genre, before you thought the genre was defined by this game."
It was ultimately clear to me that NS2 was not NS1, but that they kept so many nice things from the HL engine, as the FL, sound importance 360' etc. etc. just shows that they have massive care for the old school and are not afraid to fight against looking like every other shooter on the market today.
Peoples "need" to be right about game development, gotta end, if you don't like the product don't buy it, if you bought it, return it. The best thing that could happen with whining, is you go on the forums, start a flame war against said game, and kill it over something useless, as we've seen it happen with other titles. Instead of being a %#¤# and kill a "game" others might enjoy, go outside and play with life to find your own enjoyment.
NS2 is a monster game at a very cheap price, the devs and the real community care immensely about having it around for a good while more, and my hope is, that we won't be seing some of you.
I think we can all agree that NS1 is a far better game than NS2.
anyone who's played both ns1 and ns2 extensively would agree to this, and UWE knows it, and they don't like it.
^this times 1000, how do you mess up a tried and true game like NS1? all you had to do was remake the same game with better graphics, that's all you had to do.
Then what would be the point? They weren't making a mod this time, they wanted to make their own game. With the success of NS1 they added Vision to their followup and NS2 was the result. Clearly enough people were happy with what was being showcased in the form of alphas and betas to sustain the development of the game, and UWE, all the way to now.
I think it's good that they actually wanted to make something unique (even though there are player retention issues) than just do "the same thing with better graphics." In fact, that is the story of Modern Warfare games, and most people here complaining about the differences between NS1 and NS2 will happily scoff at the MW series too. Can't please everyone.
I have been playing since the old days (v1.04) and I have to say NS1 is way more enjoyable than NS2. I found the skill ceiling for NS2 simply too high (for me at least) and I ended up getting too frustrated before I got good. The system in NS2 is much more complicated and with so many other good games around, it's hard for me to will myself to try to find fun out of NS2 when there are other games that offer this up front. Right now I only reinstall NS2 from time to time to see if the latest updates have steered NS2 to the direction towards a game I used to be crazy about. So far I have no luck.
SpoogeThunderbolt missile in your cheeriosJoin Date: 2002-01-25Member: 67Members
I agree with the notion that NS2 is a great game but not as great as NS1.
Some of that might be nostalgia, I'll admit. In my opinion the thing that made NS1 so much better was the great focus on battling for map real estate. That conflict still happens in NS2 but it's different and watered down.
RANT PREFACE: I don't play competitive.
The first few minutes in an NS2 map are basically a mad dash to cover as much of the map as possible. After that it's generally a tug of war over small chunks until one side overwhelms the other. In NS1, the pace of map control was much slower and more methodical.
Anyone who wanted a "get right to the action" arcade style experience played Combat. And NS1 Combat was fun for that reason: it was dedicated to fighting.
Unfortunately, for me at least, NS2 has tried to combine these two experiences and isn't doing justice to either.
I like NS2 on the rare occasion that I happen upon a server full of cooperative players but for all the years I spent playing NS1, I don't recall experiencing nearly as much of the skill differences or teammate frustrations. At most you'd have a troll comm and even that was rare.
I'll keep playing but I really do wish there was a way to reintroduce more of the RTS feel from NS1 into NS2.
NS1 source codes out, some clever people could try to make NS:Classic in the source engine with current models from NS2, I challenge you. :P
OK I'll do it. Pls provide funds.
Do what Charlie did... Release the mod, and then get people to donate to you through a program to pay your bills... Or are you just trying to steal his money..... :P
I cringed reading the op. Idk how somebody who prides themselves about knowing anything about video games would be for lowering the skill cieling. I don't want to be the guy that says it, but you can go play cod if you want an easy experience only worth 50 hours of gameplay.
dePARAJoin Date: 2011-04-29Member: 96321Members, Squad Five Blue
edited January 2014
Over the time people forget the annoying things of games, movies or whatever.
These "In the past everything was better" reminds me of my grandparents talking about worldwar2:
"Everyone had a job and blablabla"
NS1 wasnt nearly the uber-game some people try to mention here.
It was a great game for sure but it was a free mod made in the spare time.
NS2 on the other hand is a balancing act between the complex gamemechanic of NS1 and a game for the masses cause: The modders from the past have to sell the game to pay there bills now.
matsoMaster of PatchesJoin Date: 2002-11-05Member: 7000Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Squad Five Gold, Reinforced - Shadow, NS2 Community Developer
1 During peak performance, only 60% of the 4 cores in your CPU is utilized? checked; The list goes on and on. /smh
I can actually answer that ... when you have limited resources, you need to make sure that you spend it wisely. If it works decently on 2 cores, it will work decently on a 4 core machine. The other way ... not so much.
1) Generic maps. NS1 maps use to be complex, every map had a very different feel/layout, map change actually mattered, now they are all more or less the same. Hive -> res room -> hive -> res room /lame
2) The introduction of alien comm. The alien comm is not a bad idea itself, but the teams use to be the direct opposite of each other, being on a different team actually felt "different". Marine had comm, alien had no comm; marine had team res no personal res, alien had personal res no team res; marine can build base anywhere on the map, alien can only drop hive at the designated hive locations, nowadays both team are about "tech points". /smh
3) The art direction. NS1 looked and sounded better. The ambience, the 1970/80 sci-fi look, the music. check this out:
4) The performance. Yeah, great idea guys, let's not use the source engine as we originally planned and let's make our own sh!tty engine that runs like a absolute dog and drag the game into a 7 year development hell.
Hosting a 24p server require 4.6+ Ghz CPU? checked; can't get consistent 60 FPS with a beastly video card such as GTX680/780? checked; During peak performance, only 60% of the 4 cores in your CPU is utilized? checked; The list goes on and on. /smh
^ This. 1,000,000x, this.
I still argue that NS2 looks like a comic book. NS1 was gritty and realistic in terms of the general art direction. Everything is bright and rounded out in NS2.
+ Whoever said the maps all feel the same in NS2. They're right. They really do. They don't look the same, but they feel the same. They don't feel unique and different. So, I go through periods of playing NS2 for awhile and then I get bored... and then I come back to NS2 for awhile... on and on.
aeroripperJoin Date: 2005-02-25Member: 42471NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
edited February 2014
Some of things NS2 lost in translation from NS1 (reiterated from previous posts):
1) The ' look' of the maps. The light maps on the old gold source engine seemed gritty, and made the ns alien-esk textures look great. Even though ns2's dynamic lighting engine is far superior technically.
2) Missing ambiance. The maps seemed to tell a story. Lots of leaky pipes, steam vents, creepy and "lonely" ambient noises on a number of the iconic NS1 maps. Although many of the vets replaced the ambient files with blanks after a while.
I think NS2 has lost that "lonely" feeling that many of the ns1 maps had due to this lack of ambiance. That is probably in addition to the sparser placement of props, due to mapping constraints on that old engine.
3) NS2 by and large has much cleaner textures. The maps themselves look like places people have recently lived, rather than sitting empty for some time and allowing rust and decay to come in as things start to break. The art is overall top notch work, but that old look has been lost from NS1.
4) The alien comm was a natural evolution of game mechanics from NS1 IMO. In NS1, it took the form of 1 player being dominant and directing the other players, with many players "hoping" somebody would step up and assume that role. In MANY alien games that would never happen. The alien comm in NS2 just formalizes that role, even if a little bit of asymmetry is lost.
The bottom line is that UWE cares more about competitive players than the game and 90% of players playing it. There is a thread about the next build should be coming out soon or it should have already. But with some kind of tournament coming the build has been put on pause cause it would be unfair to competitive players who don’t know everything little possible thing about the game.
This is something that the developers at UWE have never clued into. Unless there is a strong player base and people who buy the game and play it, it doesn’t matter how many competitive player’s there are, the game will simply die.
With the +150,000 players who have bought the game or play it, this game shouldn’t be directed towards the 1% (or less) who play on a competitive level.
ScatterJoin Date: 2012-09-02Member: 157341Members, Squad Five Blue
I think if they cared about what competitive players wanted we would have had NS 4.0 on source instead of the game we currently have. There was no catering to competitive or casual specifically, which is partly why the game is a middle of the road product that doesn't appeal strongly to either type of player.
I think you all forgot the thousands of shitty ns matches you played and remember those 5 super-epic ones. This is how the brain works.
What're you talking about? I loved having coffee breaks while being digested by an Onos, or having Sudden Death Syndrome when a Skulk 1 shot me with Focus.
Comments
LOL ikr? This MFer has never played ns1 and he's telling it like he knows how the 2 games compare. He kinda reminds me of all the Obama supporters.
Really? I uninstalled ns1 about 6 months ago because there were no more than a few players on at peak times.
The problem with NS2 is the same problem with all modern FPS games... It's been dumbed down way to far, now while the skill level may be high relative to other games, the strategy level is nothing compared to NS1....
I remember spending time sneaking as a skulk to get in position, now if I spend 30 seconds sitting in 1 spot harvesters will die marines will push and I might get that sneaky kill that has no value...
I remember commanding marines and relocating to questionable areas because I saw strategic value (sometimes we were slaughtered because I didn't realise someone on my team would be silly enough to weld open the back door)
NS2 is far more fun then 95% of FPS out there but it lacks the strategic aspect of ns1. Games play out the same commanders do the same thing every game. There just is not the same degree of freedom that ns1 had...
Now to those who say its nostalgia and that a new game must be better then the old... NS1 did not start perfect, it started off much like NS2 did (needing lots of updates). But every aspect of ns1 forced teamwork and coordination, for marines commander dropped weapons. For aliens having no commander, want a second hive? Want some upgrades? You better work together and figure out who is saving for what... Ns2 on the other hand allows for Rambo and his brother to ignore the team needs turn off his headphones and run in circles... The result pub games in ns1 > ns2 because even in pubs on ns1 there was teamwork.
But IMO when UWE daydreamed up NS2 with dynamic infestation, power nodes... They focused on the new cool potential of their engine and assumed that the AvM would bring all that was NS1 into NS2... Somewhere along the line they lost that beautiful creation and sacrificed it to create a shinny new game that has spiffy trailers, novel gimmicks, cool graphics and some semblance of strategy...
I'll continue to enjoy NS2 because it is fun, but I maintain it's a step back in the gameplay compared to ns1...
Bilebomb does nothing to marines in NS1, only for buildings.
Yeah sadly NS1 really died last year when halflife was updated. There are still some gathers going on every weekend but thats about it. No daily public games anymore.
NS1 was also difficult to apprehend at first, but at least you could be valuable to your team with some basic understanding of the game. And you needed a lot less time to get better with all the lifeform, and more importantly have some outcomes with them even if you sucked. At least it took a lot less time than in NS2, and your performances are much more rewarding and consistent throughout the games.
I understand the OP's statement, even though it could sound harsh to some people.
NS2 is an awesome game in the landscape of today's gaming, but playing some NS really have no comparison.
Pub stomping wasn't too serious for what I've seen. There been servers where every player was green.
Ns2 is just wannabe ns1.....
But it kinda failed HARD, creating the same free open gameplay when it comes to stratergies that is viable both in and out of public plays... (Adding more stuff dosent make the game better...!!!!)
^this times 1000, how do you mess up a tried and true game like NS1? all you had to do was remake the same game with better graphics, that's all you had to do.
Yes, i'm saying the developers screwed up.
These rage posts / do what I want or the franchise / game has turned bad, is a mark from the new generation, you (never!) see an old school pc gamer whine about graphics, skill ceilings, grind or wonky development (always someone, but you get the gist). We were used to all those things being standard back then, and we quite enjoy those aspects because that's what made the games work, skill and teamwork took effort, there was no stats, no match record, no progression to your acc. You simply played and if you were good, you owned.
I understand the industry has grown very large in size since then, and people see certain standards enabled by the titan titels in their respective genre. Just please keep in mind, there is still a very large old school portion in nearly all the good games, who will always look at your whine (not constructive feedback, that is always welcome) and go: "Well then gtfo back to kitty world online, while we enjoy a good sequel to what really DEFINED a new genre, before you thought the genre was defined by this game."
It was ultimately clear to me that NS2 was not NS1, but that they kept so many nice things from the HL engine, as the FL, sound importance 360' etc. etc. just shows that they have massive care for the old school and are not afraid to fight against looking like every other shooter on the market today.
Peoples "need" to be right about game development, gotta end, if you don't like the product don't buy it, if you bought it, return it. The best thing that could happen with whining, is you go on the forums, start a flame war against said game, and kill it over something useless, as we've seen it happen with other titles. Instead of being a %#¤# and kill a "game" others might enjoy, go outside and play with life to find your own enjoyment.
NS2 is a monster game at a very cheap price, the devs and the real community care immensely about having it around for a good while more, and my hope is, that we won't be seing some of you.
Then what would be the point? They weren't making a mod this time, they wanted to make their own game. With the success of NS1 they added Vision to their followup and NS2 was the result. Clearly enough people were happy with what was being showcased in the form of alphas and betas to sustain the development of the game, and UWE, all the way to now.
I think it's good that they actually wanted to make something unique (even though there are player retention issues) than just do "the same thing with better graphics." In fact, that is the story of Modern Warfare games, and most people here complaining about the differences between NS1 and NS2 will happily scoff at the MW series too. Can't please everyone.
Some of that might be nostalgia, I'll admit. In my opinion the thing that made NS1 so much better was the great focus on battling for map real estate. That conflict still happens in NS2 but it's different and watered down.
RANT PREFACE: I don't play competitive.
The first few minutes in an NS2 map are basically a mad dash to cover as much of the map as possible. After that it's generally a tug of war over small chunks until one side overwhelms the other. In NS1, the pace of map control was much slower and more methodical.
Anyone who wanted a "get right to the action" arcade style experience played Combat. And NS1 Combat was fun for that reason: it was dedicated to fighting.
Unfortunately, for me at least, NS2 has tried to combine these two experiences and isn't doing justice to either.
I like NS2 on the rare occasion that I happen upon a server full of cooperative players but for all the years I spent playing NS1, I don't recall experiencing nearly as much of the skill differences or teammate frustrations. At most you'd have a troll comm and even that was rare.
I'll keep playing but I really do wish there was a way to reintroduce more of the RTS feel from NS1 into NS2.
OK I'll do it. Pls provide funds.
Do what Charlie did... Release the mod, and then get people to donate to you through a program to pay your bills... Or are you just trying to steal his money..... :P
These "In the past everything was better" reminds me of my grandparents talking about worldwar2:
"Everyone had a job and blablabla"
NS1 wasnt nearly the uber-game some people try to mention here.
It was a great game for sure but it was a free mod made in the spare time.
NS2 on the other hand is a balancing act between the complex gamemechanic of NS1 and a game for the masses cause: The modders from the past have to sell the game to pay there bills now.
And i think they made a good job.
I can actually answer that ... when you have limited resources, you need to make sure that you spend it wisely. If it works decently on 2 cores, it will work decently on a 4 core machine. The other way ... not so much.
^ This. 1,000,000x, this.
I still argue that NS2 looks like a comic book. NS1 was gritty and realistic in terms of the general art direction. Everything is bright and rounded out in NS2.
+ Whoever said the maps all feel the same in NS2. They're right. They really do. They don't look the same, but they feel the same. They don't feel unique and different. So, I go through periods of playing NS2 for awhile and then I get bored... and then I come back to NS2 for awhile... on and on.
1) The ' look' of the maps. The light maps on the old gold source engine seemed gritty, and made the ns alien-esk textures look great. Even though ns2's dynamic lighting engine is far superior technically.
2) Missing ambiance. The maps seemed to tell a story. Lots of leaky pipes, steam vents, creepy and "lonely" ambient noises on a number of the iconic NS1 maps. Although many of the vets replaced the ambient files with blanks after a while.
I think NS2 has lost that "lonely" feeling that many of the ns1 maps had due to this lack of ambiance. That is probably in addition to the sparser placement of props, due to mapping constraints on that old engine.
3) NS2 by and large has much cleaner textures. The maps themselves look like places people have recently lived, rather than sitting empty for some time and allowing rust and decay to come in as things start to break. The art is overall top notch work, but that old look has been lost from NS1.
4) The alien comm was a natural evolution of game mechanics from NS1 IMO. In NS1, it took the form of 1 player being dominant and directing the other players, with many players "hoping" somebody would step up and assume that role. In MANY alien games that would never happen. The alien comm in NS2 just formalizes that role, even if a little bit of asymmetry is lost.
This is something that the developers at UWE have never clued into. Unless there is a strong player base and people who buy the game and play it, it doesn’t matter how many competitive player’s there are, the game will simply die.
With the +150,000 players who have bought the game or play it, this game shouldn’t be directed towards the 1% (or less) who play on a competitive level.
What're you talking about? I loved having coffee breaks while being digested by an Onos, or having Sudden Death Syndrome when a Skulk 1 shot me with Focus.