Exosuits - Viability in competitive matches - Possible Solution
ReapMyster
Australia Join Date: 2014-01-11 Member: 192954Members, WC 2013 - Silver
Australia Join Date: 2014-01-11 Member: 192954Members, WC 2013 - Silver
One of the primary issues (apart from being made of aluminium foil) of exos has been their maneuverability on the map.
One solution I can think of to making them more viable is to create a personal beacon, in which an exo can select an Observatory (in the same manner as aliens choosing a spawn point). This would open up the possibility of using Observatories as an offensive tool, require investment in resources, but still provide viability to get exos around the map in an effective manner.
Thoughts?
One solution I can think of to making them more viable is to create a personal beacon, in which an exo can select an Observatory (in the same manner as aliens choosing a spawn point). This would open up the possibility of using Observatories as an offensive tool, require investment in resources, but still provide viability to get exos around the map in an effective manner.
Thoughts?
Comments
if mobility was a problem cat packs would've solved exos a long time ago. You can already do this by building an obs/cc in the middle TP of many maps.
The actual problem is tech/pres costs and how weak they are without support.
^^ This
What good is all that firepower, if you can't get it into position effectively and it taking up valuable space in the techtree research cycle. Leaving your team behind in tech/timing/resources/morale :P
Welder tool on EXO, that's the most interesting idea I've seen in a while for the EXO!
Compare that to:
5 marines that can do whatever the hell they want, at speeds an EXO can only dream of...
5 aliens that can do whatever the hell they want, at speeds an EXO can only dream of...
The marine has control of when to escape any situation. Or, visa versa, to support areas under fire. With the beacon being linked to an observatory and not a cc, the team can create zones to cover and block. Most marines don't make 1v1 engagements with teched aliens at the stage of the game when exos are hitting the field anyway so a baby sitter makes no difference to typical strategy.
I would suggest reducing tier 1 exos to 30 res and add the welder fist as well. This would make it also more viable as an alternative to shotguns.
The way I see it is it can either be an alternative to phase gates, or a further support.
That means, teams could be stuck in a meta frame of what tactics and upgrades are worth it due to their success. Exos happen to cost a bunch and are later game (see less action just due to time constraints). They could totally be viable in some pocket strat or given some team's skill set, but the current meta strategies discourage that.
Aren't Onos' OP in pubs when there are 6 of them? Why is it so much worse when it's the same for exos?
Sure test changes. Experiment with them (say in a balance mod?). But don't say no because it would be hard or you can't predict an outcome.
I'm sure there are ways to balance cost and impact.
You could make single exos cheaper and weaker, but keep the firepower.
You could make exos more expensive but stronger
You could implement additional features (such as personal beacon) to allow them to provide a greater map presence.
These ideas shouldn't act in isolation. I just think that so much time has been spent to make exos a feature, and given the small community they don't even get used (rightly so) as they are perceived as a waste of resources. As a result there is minimum effort to fix an accepted issue.
Other aspects get tweaked (such as shotgun spread / damage etc.) because they won't greatly impact the status quo. I think that you're just wasting opportunities if you don't invest in experimentation with a significant feature which is no longer considered significant.
There needs to be a fix.
Maybe give a little backpack to the exosuit that spawns periodic medpacks and ammopacks?
Matters how the change is brought about.
Exos aren't broken. I'm quite happy with how they are balanced for pub play. Let's also not forget that marines just went 13-2 in the WC, so clearly they're holding their own even without exos.
If you need 6 of something for it to be OP, then it isn't OP. It's just balanced. If your suggested change were to be implemented, it wouldn't take six exos to be OP. One would be enough.
There is no such issue.
There is simply no reason to pay 100 tres and 40 pres for something that is limited to assaulting fortified positions. It cannot recap, pinch lifeforms, or defend well. All it does is attack.
its a bunch of people throwing out random ideas because they don't have any experience with the problem and don't' even understand why it exists.
the one guy in the thread who can claim some competitive experience has the only idea worth exploring.
And you can't tell me that pinching isn't about mobility
I don't know why you waste your time on these threads either. You're certainly not providing anything positive in posting on them.
Now where have I seen that before...
/derail lol
But anyway, like kaneh said, the res investment is just to high for a unit that doesn't have a whole lot of purposes. They really are not viable when a few catpacked/jetpack marines can match their dps. In NS1, there was the heavy armor which was a much better option. Competitive balance is in a really good spot right now imo. I would just accept the fact exos just do not have a spot in comp and leave it at that.
I stated the reasons the perceived problem wasn't actually a problem, and then stated the actual problem. Everyone just chose to ignore it and find 'solutions' to a problem that doesn't exist.
I dont' know what else could help this thread more than to tell everyone they're trying to make bigger engines when the problem is square wheels.
If there was an easy solution it would've been thought of already. Jekt has the only idea which even starts to tackle the problem from the right angle, and i noted as such.
The other thing you seem to not realize, is that increasing exo mobility essentially turns them into jetpacks. The 'mobility' niche is already filled. There is no way an exo is going to be better than a jetpack at recap, defense, and lifeform hunting.
And jetpacks have also fallen out of favor because of a prohibitive initial cost.
A bunch of people throwing out ideas is actually not better than people getting on their high horse. A real world example is the anti-vaccine crowd who use all this bad logic and uninformed opinions. The scientists try to explain the actual problem and the actual way it works, and get told they're just snarky academics.
research and understand before throwing out opinions or you just perpetuate ignorance.
And anyway if you're suggesting that people can't come into a forum called "ideas and suggestions" and provide ideas and suggestions because you've deemed them ignorant based on your ignorance then I don't see the point of a community forum. Don't defend your negative attitude by saying your an academic.
Mobility isn't just about moving fast, it's about map presence. The idea behind personal beacon was to increase map presence under specific conditions. This does not solve the problem completely as you've stated it is not a simple fix. However if you adjust and test several variables (I.e welders and cost) you may find improvements. Or not, it may not work, but that's the idea of providing ideas, they may not end up being solutions, but sometimes you have to try to think outside the box.
This is not an anti vaccine debate.
You're still advocating bigger engines when we have square wheels.
What good is all that firepower, if you can't get it into position effectively and it taking up valuable space in the techtree research cycle. Leaving your team behind in tech/timing/resources/morale"
How about we leave the Exo speed alone and allow them to spawn up to 2 Macs (3-5 res) in the same manner that a gorge spawns a clog or hydra. The Macs are set to follow that exo only but could repair marines, the Exo or build buildings without the pilot getting out of the Exo (and would do so only when the Exo is at full health).
It's much slower than a marine building but that keeps it from being OP. Mac's are easy enough to take out that they won't make the exo's invulnerable (or really make much difference if your rushed by 3-4). I also like that it makes bile more attactive.
That only solves the issue of them being so limited in role, other issues may need to be looked at before we ever see any in comp play.
This is probably the best idea so far in my humble opinion.
I also would like some observer mechanism in an exo where the exo can get a quick small radius scan for 1 or 2 res.
With a welder arm, they would be very effective support.
weird idea!
How about we give a toggle. If you swap it on, exo gains a strong permanent nano shield but loses the ability to walk. (can still turn)
While we are at it, remove them from the beacon.
What you think, may enable them to live longer solo if they hold their ground? (guess it needs some time to toggle inbetween)
Bit like the tanks from starcraft 2.