New Map Type

Knowedge · January 2003

Is any one, or has anyone considered making a map Outside a building like.. on the actual planets or anywhere thats not in a building/ship... im a uber n00b at anything even closely related to mapping and i have no zkilz0rz in it but it would beh Awsome to see a map... say like the Swamps in Diablo 2 Act 3. with old tatterd wood walk ways above the water and shacks along the way, the hives hideing up in the trees and in brush, not extremely deep water but deep enough to have a few tunnel systems in, trees you can climb and go from tree to tree

<a href='http://cloakofletters.homestead.com/files/ns_siege.zip' target='_blank'>http://cloakofletters.homestead.com/files/ns_siege.zip</a> <----friendly made it *cloak of letters*, w00t hopefully ^ will be done s00n

btw yes i no its a n00b map kthx wvu

Insane · January 2003

Yes. Mapping an outdoor map for NS has been discussed millions of time. And the general decision (in most cases) has been no. Mainly because:

1) It defies Flayra's vision (not so important to an individual perhaps, unless you want it to be considered for offical inclusion with NS).

2) It's just not practical. Skulks walking on sky clip brushes, large open areas mean that the marines <b>have</b> a huge advantage.

I know <i>someone</i> will try this anyway, but I really think it is something to be steered away from. It even says in the mapping guidelines not to make outdoor areas (aside from small ones, such as Tanith's, or Hera's until that landing pad was made inacessible to players).

tommy14 · January 2003

skulks do NOT walk on sky clip. it tested it. time to put this chestnut to rest.

Spooge · January 2003

I'm pulling from old memories (meaning the discussions are old and so is my brain <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'> ) but the more important issue was how to stop the skulks and lerks and jetpacked marines from reaching the "sky". In an open area they would rise for a greater distance than any map could allow.

Then there's the issue of how the commander would "realistically" be viewing the map.

I believe the general concession has been, if you want to make an outdoor map - go for it. But don't plan on having it taken seriously. What's more important to you: making the map YOU want to play or making a map that server ops will place in rotation?

sySTEm1 · January 2003

making more maps that will be played on servers to keep good variation <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'> i originally thought outside areas would be cool, until i thought about it, and how silly it is <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'> closest u will get to outside on intrepid is looking out to space through 6" thick glass <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'>

Insane · January 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (tommy14 @ Jan 7 2003, 08:48 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>skulks do NOT walk on sky clip. it tested it. time to put this chestnut to rest.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
What I <i>mean</i> is that clip brushes will be required to stop skulks, lerks and JPer's reaching the sky. Skulks walking along this would be silly.

evoLvingeviL · January 2003

SKY BRUSHES ARE NOT A PROBLEM.

Flyers/Crawlers just hit a skybrush like any other brush, and stop. Skulks can't climb sky brushes, either. There's an open sky (gasp!) in ns_tanish outside MS, and there's no problem.

Anyone whose paying attention knows the answers to the 'Outdoors' issue, so lets be done with this thread. If anyone posts anything else here I will KILL them. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'>

SamR · January 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (evoL:ving:eviL @ Jan 7 2003, 01:49 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Skulks can't climb sky brushes, either.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
What? Do you mean, 'Skulks shouldn't be able to climb sky brushes'?
Because last time I played Tanith, I sure as hell could climb across the skybox just like any other ceiling...

...it's 1.30am... I may be being stupid and misunderstanding what you've written.

Please, don't kill me.

evoLvingeviL · January 2003

I'm pretty sure you can't climb sky brushes. I'm POSITIVELY sure you can't climb clip brushes. I'll check Tanith again later, just in case there was some sort of galactic parallel dimension shift after I played it last.

*Kills SamR* <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'>

Knowedge · January 2003

well now that im completely lost in your lingo ill go and pretend i never posted kthx bai!

Arkaine · January 2003

Well, here's an idea: ns_canopy.

An outdoor map in the forest with lots of trees, rocks, and small valleys for aliens to ambush; big hollowed-out readwood trees, groves, and underground dwellings for hives and the marine base. Think small. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'> It would be called Canopy because the trees' branches above prevent any player from flying too high.

Someone make it. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'>

Rabid_Llama · January 2003

I just went and tested, and what I thought was confirmed -- you can NOT climb on clip brushes. As for sky brushes, two things. One, zoners halflife tools (what all good mappers use to compile) automatically puts a clip brush on/in every sky brush. Why? That's point two: sky brushes aren't solid. You can actually SWIM in them, oddly enough. So, it was always good practice to put clip brushes on all of your sky brushes, until zoner came along and made it automatic.
So, that's one less reason for outside maps to not exist.
That's not to say it wouldn't be VERY difficult to make an outdoor map that would play correctly... but at least the sky would work <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

Parasite · January 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (tommy14 @ Jan 7 2003, 08:48 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>skulks do NOT walk on sky clip. it tested it. time to put this chestnut to rest.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
I think that in itself gives matines an advantage, but at the same time "outdoors" in the HL engine would have to be restrained to short narrow canyons to support the amount of entities and keep the framerates needed in NS.

Lucid · January 2003

/me comes up with seemingly good outdoor map idea

/flamefield *haha! I am immune to all flames now!*

What if like 40-50% of the map was outside and the parts that were outside could have some sort of trigger_hurt thingie in the cieling (don't ya love it when non-mappers post in this forum?). Anyway do you see where I'm going? it could be some kinda poison gas covering the map or some sattalite death ray blanket. Don't focus on my particular example as they aren't the point.

evoLvingeviL · January 2003

The whole trigger_hurt idea for higher altitudes has been done, as has a 'dome' over the skybox.

*kills everyone* <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'>

Ollj · January 2003

Then make trigger hurt REALLY strong. If not, a gorge could build a defend tower of babel.

Unknown · January 2003

An outdoor map can be done, but there are a couple limitations that would make all of the maps more or less be the same.. I remember a duke3d level that very much would work as a NS level. Its more or less a massive playground, with multiple decks and layers, ladders everywhere, etc. so the skulks would still have their wall/roof climbing advantage yet the outdoor feeling would still be there. It was laid out like one of those hill-side mexian villages, with huts upon huts upon huts. Unfortunately the outdoor portion of the map would be very small, and the hives would be buried deep in the playgroundish structure where its entirely surrounded by somesuch, as usual. I can't really think of any other way to do it.

nightfire · January 2003

trigger_push??

New Map Type

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