Alright, I've got 4 suggestions. If any of these are outside the scope of NS2+ and I should be suggesting them for the vanilla game, let me know and I'll post them elsewhere.
1. A timer on destroyed power nodes indicating how long you must wait before you can start repairing them would be very helpful.
2. When marines die, they currently don't drop their grenades, causing that PRes to be wasted. Can this be changed? It's inconsistent, and I might actually buy them if I weren't forced to use them recklessly because they go away when I die.
3. Notifications letting alien players know when they've accumulated enough res for a lifeform would be useful. Particularly in competitive games, I've found that sometimes we're so busy with what we're doing that we miss that we're at lerk, fade, or onos res, delaying the lifeform significantly and putting us in a worse position.
4. The weapon cycling system in the game is really cumbersome, so making it so that the despawn timer on non-LMG equipment resets whenever a marine is close enough to pick it up would be a huge quality-of-life improvement. It's frustrating to cycle weapons, potentially missing the spare ammunition that fell to the ground, dealing with that weapon being empty, or trying to cycle the right weapon when they're too close together. Cycling welders is really hard because you can't swap your welder with welders on the ground, and welders aren't highlighted when you have one, so those often don't get saved. This would also solve the issue of weapons disappearing just after you've gotten in range of them, without having to use the weapon auto-pickup that can cause you to pick up empty weapons by accident in combat.
Alright, I've got 4 suggestions. If any of these are outside the scope of NS2+ and I should be suggesting them for the vanilla game, let me know and I'll post them elsewhere.
1. A timer on destroyed power nodes indicating how long you must wait before you can start repairing them would be very helpful.
2. When marines die, they currently don't drop their grenades, causing that PRes to be wasted. Can this be changed? It's inconsistent, and I might actually buy them if I weren't forced to use them recklessly because they go away when I die.
3. Notifications letting alien players know when they've accumulated enough res for a lifeform would be useful. Particularly in competitive games, I've found that sometimes we're so busy with what we're doing that we miss that we're at lerk, fade, or onos res, delaying the lifeform significantly and putting us in a worse position.
4. The weapon cycling system in the game is really cumbersome, so making it so that the despawn timer on non-LMG equipment resets whenever a marine is close enough to pick it up would be a huge quality-of-life improvement. It's frustrating to cycle weapons, potentially missing the spare ammunition that fell to the ground, dealing with that weapon being empty, or trying to cycle the right weapon when they're too close together. Cycling welders is really hard because you can't swap your welder with welders on the ground, and welders aren't highlighted when you have one, so those often don't get saved. This would also solve the issue of weapons disappearing just after you've gotten in range of them, without having to use the weapon auto-pickup that can cause you to pick up empty weapons by accident in combat.
I had to re-read #4 to totally get it, but that actually makes sense. Although, I think you'd have to make the area of effect really small for it to be fair.
#1 - if at all possible, I'd prefere a real animation over a timer for that, like the power node would be burning hot and sparky or something during the timer where you can't repair it. You have to be careful about adding too many HUD timer stuff, other wise you clutter things up too much.
Alright, I've got 4 suggestions. If any of these are outside the scope of NS2+ and I should be suggesting them for the vanilla game, let me know and I'll post them elsewhere.
1. A timer on destroyed power nodes indicating how long you must wait before you can start repairing them would be very helpful.
2. When marines die, they currently don't drop their grenades, causing that PRes to be wasted. Can this be changed? It's inconsistent, and I might actually buy them if I weren't forced to use them recklessly because they go away when I die.
3. Notifications letting alien players know when they've accumulated enough res for a lifeform would be useful. Particularly in competitive games, I've found that sometimes we're so busy with what we're doing that we miss that we're at lerk, fade, or onos res, delaying the lifeform significantly and putting us in a worse position.
4. The weapon cycling system in the game is really cumbersome, so making it so that the despawn timer on non-LMG equipment resets whenever a marine is close enough to pick it up would be a huge quality-of-life improvement. It's frustrating to cycle weapons, potentially missing the spare ammunition that fell to the ground, dealing with that weapon being empty, or trying to cycle the right weapon when they're too close together. Cycling welders is really hard because you can't swap your welder with welders on the ground, and welders aren't highlighted when you have one, so those often don't get saved. This would also solve the issue of weapons disappearing just after you've gotten in range of them, without having to use the weapon auto-pickup that can cause you to pick up empty weapons by accident in combat.
I'll agree with #2, lukewarm on #1 and #4, but definitely against #3. Why dumb down the game even further, ESPECIALLY for competitive matches? You have 12 seconds on death, before your next spawn, to look at your map and your scoreboard to see relevant PRes info and even if you fail to do that, a commander who should be mindful. It's really a part of your game/team awareness.
Alright, I've got 4 suggestions. If any of these are outside the scope of NS2+ and I should be suggesting them for the vanilla game, let me know and I'll post them elsewhere.
1. A timer on destroyed power nodes indicating how long you must wait before you can start repairing them would be very helpful.
2. When marines die, they currently don't drop their grenades, causing that PRes to be wasted. Can this be changed? It's inconsistent, and I might actually buy them if I weren't forced to use them recklessly because they go away when I die.
3. Notifications letting alien players know when they've accumulated enough res for a lifeform would be useful. Particularly in competitive games, I've found that sometimes we're so busy with what we're doing that we miss that we're at lerk, fade, or onos res, delaying the lifeform significantly and putting us in a worse position.
4. The weapon cycling system in the game is really cumbersome, so making it so that the despawn timer on non-LMG equipment resets whenever a marine is close enough to pick it up would be a huge quality-of-life improvement. It's frustrating to cycle weapons, potentially missing the spare ammunition that fell to the ground, dealing with that weapon being empty, or trying to cycle the right weapon when they're too close together. Cycling welders is really hard because you can't swap your welder with welders on the ground, and welders aren't highlighted when you have one, so those often don't get saved. This would also solve the issue of weapons disappearing just after you've gotten in range of them, without having to use the weapon auto-pickup that can cause you to pick up empty weapons by accident in combat.
I'll agree with #2, lukewarm on #1 and #4, but definitely against #3. Why dumb down the game even further, ESPECIALLY for competitive matches? You have 12 seconds on death, before your next spawn, to look at your map and your scoreboard to see relevant PRes info and even if you fail to do that, a commander who should be mindful. It's really a part of your game/team awareness.
About #3 - I'm kind of against it only because I'd personally disable it anyway because it'd surely only serve as clutter on my screen.
But as for dumbing down the game? Not really.. It'd have such a small impact, if any. Your decision makings will never change based on wether or not you got a notification - so I don't think it would dumb anything down. And it's not really a measure of skill to keep track of your pres.
I do localization NS2 and think that weapons(JP, Exo)/life form icon will be more usable than text. http://i.imgur.com/2oug6Be.png
It can be done as a another mod or as new feature for release build.
What you think?
Weapons and all that stuff aren't supposed to be translated as far as I know. That should be a better idea I guess to have those in English. Everyone knows their dedicated words, right?
This is not so. All of the names of Marines is have one meaning of translation, for example, in the Russian language only one variant translation "pistol" - "пистолет". However, a most of the names of Kharaa not so simple.
About the icons - they are more compact and clear in all the languages of the world and not need translation.
Zefram: Making critical information easy to notice is generally a good goal and doesn't amount to dumbing things down. By that same logic, there's no need to show when research has completed because research progress can be easily tracked on the tech map. Those notifications are useful, though, and we've seen additions along these lines with things like flashing ammo displays. When playing aliens, players don't spend their personal res that often, so I think it's pretty reasonable that they may overlook that HUD element that's rarely relevant. I don't think addressing this hurts the parts of the game that actually matter and that lead to interesting gameplay.
SantaClaws: Regarding #4, the range would be the standard range for picking up weapons, which is pretty small. The only change would be that you don't have to actually cycle it to keep it alive.
Alright, I've got 4 suggestions. If any of these are outside the scope of NS2+ and I should be suggesting them for the vanilla game, let me know and I'll post them elsewhere.
1. 2. 3. 4.
1. Usefull as a timer in center screen in current room like - Available power recovery: timer.
2. Should be dropped all ammunition and weapons (including LMG and pistol with all ammo) exclude axe, JP, Exo after marines die.
3. In evolve menu check box for notification. In GUI in right middle side of the screen will be shown the icon when resources is available.
4. I think that best idea what marines by holding G key can carry all dropped a weapons (example shotgun+welder) but can not shooting at this moment. In GUI he can see what he is carrying by the icons (I like the icons ). A switching weapons will stay as a single press G.
4. I think that best idea what marines by holding G key can carry all dropped a weapons (example shotgun+welder) but can not shooting at this moment. In GUI he can see what he is carrying by the icons (I like the icons ). A switching weapons will stay as a single press G.
That's not really necessary, and I'd submit it is over-complicated, since we can already do that by spamming G.
Zefram: Making critical information easy to notice is generally a good goal and doesn't amount to dumbing things down. By that same logic, there's no need to show when research has completed because research progress can be easily tracked on the tech map. Those notifications are useful, though, and we've seen additions along these lines with things like flashing ammo displays. When playing aliens, players don't spend their personal res that often, so I think it's pretty reasonable that they may overlook that HUD element that's rarely relevant. I don't think addressing this hurts the parts of the game that actually matter and that lead to interesting gameplay.
I don't really think the flashing ammo display is needed and really is just polish and doesn't vastly change how you play. If you're familiar with an ammo clip, it's fairly easy to know when to reload or switch weapons. PRes milestones aren't in the same category. Knowing when lifeforms should come out does change how you play and what you're doing so I'm not sure why lifeform timings are irrelevant. Even as a marine, you should have an internal clock that is estimating the next explosion of lifeforms. You should be penalized if you can't keep track of your or your team's PRes and your lifeforms come out late... ESPECIALLY in competitive play. It's not something that needs "addressing".
I don't really think the flashing ammo display is needed and really is just polish and doesn't vastly change how you play. If you're familiar with an ammo clip, it's fairly easy to know when to reload or switch weapons. PRes milestones aren't in the same category. Knowing when lifeforms should come out does change how you play and what you're doing so I'm not sure why lifeform timings are irrelevant. Even as a marine, you should have an internal clock that is estimating the next explosion of lifeforms. You should be penalized if you can't keep track of your or your team's PRes and your lifeforms come out late... ESPECIALLY in competitive play. It's not something that needs "addressing".
Sometime especially in competitive play, you can not control too much events at the same time, especially in battle, especially, when commander ask you to do combat mission, because clan war games is too difficult and the players do not get enough attention.
I think in NS2 should be more notifications like this (Available selected life form) for clan war:
1. Died life form/Exo (for all players)
2. Gorge tunnel and hydra died at some location (for owner).
3. Losing/restore each upgrade for life form (for Kharaa).
4. Losing/restore arms labs (for marines).
...
I would be against the cycling weapons change, mainly because your teammate(s) already made a mistake by dying and loosing the weapon once, making it even easier to regain that weapon shouldn't really be encouraged. The timer already makes it a lot easier to time your pickups to minimize risk, since you can easily tell exactly how much time is left.
I could see making grenades dropped on death, but would have to check a few things to see if that is actually possible.
I would be against the cycling weapons change, mainly because your teammate(s) already made a mistake by dying and loosing the weapon once, making it even easier to regain that weapon shouldn't really be encouraged. The timer already makes it a lot easier to time your pickups to minimize risk, since you can easily tell exactly how much time is left.
I could see making grenades dropped on death, but would have to check a few things to see if that is actually possible.
The suggestion is not really different from dropping your weapon in advance and just utilizing mendasps auto-pickup - only this is a bit more automated and less 'cluttery', and you don't have to repeat the action over and over again to keep the item recycled which seems completely fair.
I mean, overall, to a comp player it makes zero difference, it's just a quality of life change really.
Zefram: Research notifications are the effectively the same as the lifeform notifications I'm suggesting, and like with the lifeforms, knowing when research comes out does change how you play and you 'should' have an internal clock estimating when research will be up. Without those notifications, people need to be watching their tech maps or the commander needs to be watching for research to finish so he can announce it. Having those notifications, though, is a very helpful convenience that eliminates that unnecessary busy work. Given that you wait a long time for your personal res to accumulate, you don't spend that res on anything else, and you're supposed to evolve right when it's ready, notifications here make similar sense, so I don't see how this is any different.
Perhaps research notifications dumb the game down, too. Where's the line drawn? The ammo display keeps you have having to count the number of rounds you've fired. The RT count keeps you from having to count RTs on the minimap. Your health display keeps you from having to track damage dealt to you. Those are important skills to some people (see Battlefield 4's hardcore mode) and they do change how you play, but thankfully that information easy to consume in NS2 so people can focus on the important work that actually distinguishes players and teams.
He had noted - so making it so that the despawn timer on non-LMG equipment resets whenever a marine is close enough, Which I interpreted as not requiring the weapon to be picked up. Picking up the weapon if an alien is nearby is a risk, that weapon could be empty or you could get caught in the deploy animation depending on timing. I think that risk is an important part of weapon recycling. Its not something that is always a factor, but it can be very useful in stopping a single marine from recapping a weapon.
Zefram: Research notifications are the effectively the same as the lifeform notifications I'm suggesting, and like with the lifeforms, knowing when research comes out does change how you play and you 'should' have an internal clock estimating when research will be up. Without those notifications, people need to be watching their tech maps or the commander needs to be watching for research to finish so he can announce it. Having those notifications, though, is a very helpful convenience that eliminates that unnecessary busy work. Given that you wait a long time for your personal res to accumulate, you don't spend that res on anything else, and you're supposed to evolve right when it's ready, notifications here make similar sense, so I don't see how this is any different.
Perhaps research notifications dumb the game down, too. Where's the line drawn? The ammo display keeps you have having to count the number of rounds you've fired. The RT count keeps you from having to count RTs on the minimap. Your health display keeps you from having to track damage dealt to you. Those are important skills to some people (see Battlefield 4's hardcore mode) and they do change how you play, but thankfully that information easy to consume in NS2 so people can focus on the important work that actually distinguishes players and teams.
Except they're not the same. Getting an upgrade in armor or weapons isn't going to drastically change what you're doing. You're still going to engage in fights, dodge lifeforms as much as possible, shoot structures, etc. With lifeform timings, there are decisions to be made. Do you plan your route back towards a safe place to evolve into your next lifeform or do you stay on the field and keep biting res or whatever it is you're doing? You're judging what is best and if you happen to miss those timings because of lack of awareness, poor judgement, or your team doesn't communicate it to you, your team SHOULD be penalized.
There are skills in this game that are more interesting then just shooting and biting. There are lots of players in the lower divs who have the mechanical skills to play in higher division, but the way they think about the game and their decision making is poor. The mental aspects, team communication, and awareness are skills often overlooked.
You've got a lot of time from when you die until you respawn to make decisions about what you're going to do on your next life.
Zefram: Research notifications are the effectively the same as the lifeform notifications I'm suggesting, and like with the lifeforms, knowing when research comes out does change how you play and you 'should' have an internal clock estimating when research will be up. Without those notifications, people need to be watching their tech maps or the commander needs to be watching for research to finish so he can announce it. Having those notifications, though, is a very helpful convenience that eliminates that unnecessary busy work. Given that you wait a long time for your personal res to accumulate, you don't spend that res on anything else, and you're supposed to evolve right when it's ready, notifications here make similar sense, so I don't see how this is any different.
Perhaps research notifications dumb the game down, too. Where's the line drawn? The ammo display keeps you have having to count the number of rounds you've fired. The RT count keeps you from having to count RTs on the minimap. Your health display keeps you from having to track damage dealt to you. Those are important skills to some people (see Battlefield 4's hardcore mode) and they do change how you play, but thankfully that information easy to consume in NS2 so people can focus on the important work that actually distinguishes players and teams.
Well that all makes sense now... Golden and I always thought Div 2 players wait to evolve till they have the p-res + upgrade res... apparently it was an awareness issue.
All jokes aside, that's just a stupid idea. In quake do you get a convenient timer that keeps track of the Mega spawn?
@Zefram Correct me if I'm wrong, but the isn't the aim of NS2+ to increase performance, optimize shit, and overall add quality of life changes that won't drastically change gameplay? It adds
small features that make gaming in NS2, great/easier!
1. A timer on destroyed power nodes indicating how long you must wait before you can start repairing them would be very helpful.
This is great, and I think everyone can agree that they've stood there trying to weld a recently rushed power node at least once. That time standing there welding an unresponsive power node can be spent welding each other and precisely know when to start welding the power without risking any down-time. There is no reason NOT to have this. If you disagree with having this in NS2+, then you need to give a valid reason other than dumbing down the game. As this is not a good counter-argument for introducing a non-gameplay destructive, and quality of life change such as this.
[*]I remember when before player's names were on maps, people would have to call out the room name and give them instructions. This meaned that every player needed to be aware of what room they were in/close to, and recognize if they were being called upon. Now however (with the help of modders) we have introduced player's names on maps. Players no longer need to listen for the room name they are in, but rather their own name. You could say... this dumbed down the game as well, but what's wrong with "dumbing down the game" if it introduces the same, exact gameplay, but with additional information or help? Why are we allowed to disable map atmospherics and ambient noise, which in some competitive games could be considered game breaking?
2. When marines die, they currently don't drop their grenades, causing that PRes to be wasted. Can this be changed? It's inconsistent, and I might actually buy them if I weren't forced to use them recklessly because they go away when I die.
I agree that this is inconsistent. It's a bit of a game-changer, but the entire PRes system for Marines seems to be balanced around being able to retrieve(or guard) their dropped valuables. With the exception of more powerful tools, such as the Jetpack or Exosuit. Whenever I have grenades, I feel as though I need to use them as quickly as possible as I'll probably forget I have them and die with them, wasting PRes. I figure that, if people start seeing grenades dropped on the floor they'll remember they are in the game and slowly move closer to buying them on instinct like how people rush to an armory to instantly buy Shotgun+Welder combo just off of memory.
3. Notifications letting alien players know when they've accumulated enough res for a lifeform would be useful. Particularly in competitive games, I've found that sometimes we're so busy with what we're doing that we miss that we're at lerk, fade, or onos res, delaying the lifeform significantly and putting us in a worse position.
PRes notifications for Aliens regarding if they can achieve a certain life-form is about as important(if not more) as shotguns, jetpacks, exosuits, leap, umbra, xenocide. All of which have notifications, on-screen, displaying that they've been researched/unlocked. Sometimes, whenever I see shotguns researched, I'll phase back to base and immediately buy one. Quickly running back through the phase and into the fray of battle. Why can't Aliens have the same?
You can read the [*] above again if you want.
I'll restate again. Simply using the argument of, not wanting to dumbdown gameplay, is not valid. We've already introduced many non-gameplay destructive quality-of-life changes that make the game easier to keep track of things. Especially when (#2) already exists, but for research notifications! Shotguns are as important as Lerks, and jetpacks are as important as Onos. How many times have you seen a commander beacon as soon as jetpacks were up to form a jetpack rush?!
All jokes aside, that's just a stupid idea. In quake do you get a convenient timer that keeps track of the Mega spawn?
@joshhh No, but wouldn't it be a good quality-of-life change? Although, they probably wouldn't introduce that since it's actually part of the gameplay. The argument here however, isn't about introducing a timer for mega-spawn, which is for an entirely different game. It's about creating consistency in important events. What if mega-spawn(Xenocide) had notifications, but smaller-spawns(Leap/Bilebomb) did not? Wouldn't be make sense that, since the most important events in the game have notifications (Hive/structure being attacked) that similar/lesser important events have notifications? There are flashing lights, sound queues, and possibly rage occurring when all these other important events are available. Why not?
Could you give me a valid argument behind why this shouldn't be introduced, over examples: Names on minimap, power-node different colors, disabled ambient noise and map atmospherics?
@Zefram, everything you said about the decisions aliens make when players can afford lifeforms applies for marines, as well. When shotgun, HMG, mine, or jetpack research completes, all marines get a notification and there are decisions to be made. Do you plan your route back towards base to buy some mines or do you stay on the field and keep pressuring res or whatever you're doing? You're judging what is best, and if you happen to make the wrong decision because of poor judgment, you should be penalized. It really is the same for anything that players buy on either team, except aliens get the opportunity to overlook this information simply because they don't get a notification. You're calling this skill, but it's not part of strategy, positioning, engagements, or teamwork, the various elements that compose the game.
Really, it's counter to a core concept of NS2, which is that nearly every piece of information about yourself and your team is available to you at any time. You can see research progress, your health, your ammo, team res, personal res, positioning on the map, who's in combat, what's being attacked, RT counts, who killed whom, who's alive, weapon timers, and so on. NS2+ and vanilla have been adding even more options to present this information in ways that are easier for people to consume. What you're not given information about is the other team, so you have to discover, infer, and guess about what the other team has, where they are, and what they're doing. That's where the skill comes in, and that's a big part of the game.
And sure, @joshhh, you can point to other games and say it'd be stupid if that game had whatever feature. You might be right. Different games can go in completely opposite directions on things and still be valid, but they should be internally consistent and cohesive.
@xDragon: I agree that it'd be a bit of a buff for marines, but particularly given the nerfs weapon lifetime has gotten lately (30->25 second despawn time, and slower marines in Comp Mod), I'm not that concerned about the lone marine scenario you propose, which is a lot less common than the marine group just getting entirely cleared and having to run all the way back. We've gotten quality-of-life improvements in the past that have also been buffs, like making ammo drops fill both marine guns instead of just the current one. These changes make the game much more pleasant to play. Cycling as it is looks like an unintended consequence of weapon timers being set when weapons drop, but since it's such an important tactic for marines, it would make a lot of sense to flesh it out and fix its many issues.
d4rkAlfSwedenJoin Date: 2013-11-12Member: 189309Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow
Hey @Mendasp! Could you add an option to set the number of loader worker threads? (The command "res_workers n" essentially.) It's annoying having to set it every time.
I'm against the idea someone mooted of having notifications to all players upon death of a lifeform. It's great for spectator, but for players would impact on the (already arguable) usefulness of shade hive.
Our team, and every team for whom I've had the pleasure of mercing, has communicated these events over voice chat anyway, and uses those times strategically (lerk down, push left side now!).
If they happen to be wrong because it was a hallucination and they didn't realise (okay, it's a niche case I'll grant you), then the uncharacteristically successful sleight of hand by the aliens shouldn't be punished by removing that ambiguity. Unless you want notifications for hallucination lifeform deaths as well, and quite frankly that's going to get really annoying.
I just don't understand your angle, Fisk. This game already has a shitton of notifications on both sides. Marines are notified when tech/ups are available and aliens are notified when ups/abilities are available. Your p-res is something extremely easy to keep track of. You have a number on your screen and can always press tab.
All Zefram's post was trying to say is that this is rudimentary basic awareness. Nothing more, nothing less. It's the same with a powernode timer... it really isnt needed.
It pops up when shotguns are researched, not when you have enough to afford one. I can understand an alert when you reach X pres for a lifeform in pubs, but for a competitive player it really surprises me that those timings would be missed.. It doesn't take long to understand the critical importance of lifeform timing, it should be something you always have a general idea about in your head, whatever team you are playing. If the marines are really pressuring you hard enough to make you forget, that almost seems like something they are earning.
Also, I really hope you can understand the difference between a commander researched upgrade that is unlocked which cannot be purchased by a player beforehand (would you want to check the armory each spawn to see if you can buy a SG?) versus something always available that you personally cannot afford yet.
And you may not be that concerned about the lone marine recapping a gun, but its still an important situation. Baiting the gun pickup is a good way to kill a marine attempting to recap a gun, and can easily make the difference in it being successfully recovered or not. If an entire group of marines gets cleared and they were not at a phase gate, its highly unlikely more than 2 would be able to make it back within the 25 second window, unless there were other marines already nearby. There are QoL fixes that are slight buffs, but weapon pickup vulnerability is a mechanic... Just like medpack pickup delay.
remiremedy [blu.knight]Join Date: 2003-11-18Member: 23112Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester
Maybe showing when the first lerk/fade/onos is purchased would be good. Then it's communicating to your team that a new lifeform is on the field (and also reminding other people that they likely have the res for it)
All Zefram's post was trying to say is that this is rudimentary basic awareness. Nothing more, nothing less. It's the same with a powernode timer... it really isnt needed.
If that is what Zefram is saying, then I agree. But that's not how I interpreted it.
Knowing when lifeforms should come out does change how you play and what you're doing so I'm not sure why lifeform timings are irrelevant. Even as a marine, you should have an internal clock that is estimating the next explosion of lifeforms. You should be penalized if you can't keep track of your or your team's PRes and your lifeforms come out late... ESPECIALLY in competitive play
Obviously the knowledge of lifeform timings changes how you play. Any knowledge does to an extent. That's not an argument for why we shouldn't have that information however.
I am not concerned about this proposal, if it's implemented I will disable it personally, because as Joshhy correctly says, we won't need it and it's just clutter basically. At the same time I wouldn't care if others use it or not.
What does concern me however, is this reasoning to not implement it. Because this would apply to ANY information on the screen - including "base under attack" notifications or the pres counters on the scoreboard or bottom right of the screen.
I could just as easily say, "we don't need that junk, just keep an eye on the amount of harvesters you've had for how long and calculate your pres in your head - it's all part of the rudimentary basic awareness after all..."
Or "You don't need no mini-map! You can just coordinate all the information with your team mates - it's all part of rudimentary basic awareness man!"
These are the extremes of course, but don't pretend that ns2+ hasn't previously made information on the screen available that otherwise had to be accounted for by your 'awareness'. (Despawn-timers, weapon-highlights etc.)
This isn't an argument about lack of information available to the player... its an argument to support more hand-holding of rudimentary knowledge and game awareness which is just plain laughable.
Dragon's post should have shut down this conversation all together. There really isnt much more to say.
Comments
1. A timer on destroyed power nodes indicating how long you must wait before you can start repairing them would be very helpful.
2. When marines die, they currently don't drop their grenades, causing that PRes to be wasted. Can this be changed? It's inconsistent, and I might actually buy them if I weren't forced to use them recklessly because they go away when I die.
3. Notifications letting alien players know when they've accumulated enough res for a lifeform would be useful. Particularly in competitive games, I've found that sometimes we're so busy with what we're doing that we miss that we're at lerk, fade, or onos res, delaying the lifeform significantly and putting us in a worse position.
4. The weapon cycling system in the game is really cumbersome, so making it so that the despawn timer on non-LMG equipment resets whenever a marine is close enough to pick it up would be a huge quality-of-life improvement. It's frustrating to cycle weapons, potentially missing the spare ammunition that fell to the ground, dealing with that weapon being empty, or trying to cycle the right weapon when they're too close together. Cycling welders is really hard because you can't swap your welder with welders on the ground, and welders aren't highlighted when you have one, so those often don't get saved. This would also solve the issue of weapons disappearing just after you've gotten in range of them, without having to use the weapon auto-pickup that can cause you to pick up empty weapons by accident in combat.
I had to re-read #4 to totally get it, but that actually makes sense. Although, I think you'd have to make the area of effect really small for it to be fair.
#2 - I think you'd have to suggest that to the compmod guys and gals.
#1 - if at all possible, I'd prefere a real animation over a timer for that, like the power node would be burning hot and sparky or something during the timer where you can't repair it. You have to be careful about adding too many HUD timer stuff, other wise you clutter things up too much.
I'll agree with #2, lukewarm on #1 and #4, but definitely against #3. Why dumb down the game even further, ESPECIALLY for competitive matches? You have 12 seconds on death, before your next spawn, to look at your map and your scoreboard to see relevant PRes info and even if you fail to do that, a commander who should be mindful. It's really a part of your game/team awareness.
About #3 - I'm kind of against it only because I'd personally disable it anyway because it'd surely only serve as clutter on my screen.
But as for dumbing down the game? Not really.. It'd have such a small impact, if any. Your decision makings will never change based on wether or not you got a notification - so I don't think it would dumb anything down. And it's not really a measure of skill to keep track of your pres.
This is not so. All of the names of Marines is have one meaning of translation, for example, in the Russian language only one variant translation "pistol" - "пистолет". However, a most of the names of Kharaa not so simple.
About the icons - they are more compact and clear in all the languages of the world and not need translation.
SantaClaws: Regarding #4, the range would be the standard range for picking up weapons, which is pretty small. The only change would be that you don't have to actually cycle it to keep it alive.
2. Should be dropped all ammunition and weapons (including LMG and pistol with all ammo) exclude axe, JP, Exo after marines die.
3. In evolve menu check box for notification. In GUI in right middle side of the screen will be shown the icon when resources is available.
4. I think that best idea what marines by holding G key can carry all dropped a weapons (example shotgun+welder) but can not shooting at this moment. In GUI he can see what he is carrying by the icons (I like the icons
I don't really think the flashing ammo display is needed and really is just polish and doesn't vastly change how you play. If you're familiar with an ammo clip, it's fairly easy to know when to reload or switch weapons. PRes milestones aren't in the same category. Knowing when lifeforms should come out does change how you play and what you're doing so I'm not sure why lifeform timings are irrelevant. Even as a marine, you should have an internal clock that is estimating the next explosion of lifeforms. You should be penalized if you can't keep track of your or your team's PRes and your lifeforms come out late... ESPECIALLY in competitive play. It's not something that needs "addressing".
I think in NS2 should be more notifications like this (Available selected life form) for clan war:
1. Died life form/Exo (for all players)
2. Gorge tunnel and hydra died at some location (for owner).
3. Losing/restore each upgrade for life form (for Kharaa).
4. Losing/restore arms labs (for marines).
...
Players must see it too.
I could see making grenades dropped on death, but would have to check a few things to see if that is actually possible.
I mean, overall, to a comp player it makes zero difference, it's just a quality of life change really.
Perhaps research notifications dumb the game down, too. Where's the line drawn? The ammo display keeps you have having to count the number of rounds you've fired. The RT count keeps you from having to count RTs on the minimap. Your health display keeps you from having to track damage dealt to you. Those are important skills to some people (see Battlefield 4's hardcore mode) and they do change how you play, but thankfully that information easy to consume in NS2 so people can focus on the important work that actually distinguishes players and teams.
Except they're not the same. Getting an upgrade in armor or weapons isn't going to drastically change what you're doing. You're still going to engage in fights, dodge lifeforms as much as possible, shoot structures, etc. With lifeform timings, there are decisions to be made. Do you plan your route back towards a safe place to evolve into your next lifeform or do you stay on the field and keep biting res or whatever it is you're doing? You're judging what is best and if you happen to miss those timings because of lack of awareness, poor judgement, or your team doesn't communicate it to you, your team SHOULD be penalized.
There are skills in this game that are more interesting then just shooting and biting. There are lots of players in the lower divs who have the mechanical skills to play in higher division, but the way they think about the game and their decision making is poor. The mental aspects, team communication, and awareness are skills often overlooked.
You've got a lot of time from when you die until you respawn to make decisions about what you're going to do on your next life.
Well that all makes sense now... Golden and I always thought Div 2 players wait to evolve till they have the p-res + upgrade res... apparently it was an awareness issue.
All jokes aside, that's just a stupid idea. In quake do you get a convenient timer that keeps track of the Mega spawn?
small features that make gaming in NS2, great/easier!
This is great, and I think everyone can agree that they've stood there trying to weld a recently rushed power node at least once. That time standing there welding an unresponsive power node can be spent welding each other and precisely know when to start welding the power without risking any down-time. There is no reason NOT to have this. If you disagree with having this in NS2+, then you need to give a valid reason other than dumbing down the game. As this is not a good counter-argument for introducing a non-gameplay destructive, and quality of life change such as this.
[*]I remember when before player's names were on maps, people would have to call out the room name and give them instructions. This meaned that every player needed to be aware of what room they were in/close to, and recognize if they were being called upon. Now however (with the help of modders) we have introduced player's names on maps. Players no longer need to listen for the room name they are in, but rather their own name. You could say... this dumbed down the game as well, but what's wrong with "dumbing down the game" if it introduces the same, exact gameplay, but with additional information or help? Why are we allowed to disable map atmospherics and ambient noise, which in some competitive games could be considered game breaking?
I agree that this is inconsistent. It's a bit of a game-changer, but the entire PRes system for Marines seems to be balanced around being able to retrieve(or guard) their dropped valuables. With the exception of more powerful tools, such as the Jetpack or Exosuit. Whenever I have grenades, I feel as though I need to use them as quickly as possible as I'll probably forget I have them and die with them, wasting PRes. I figure that, if people start seeing grenades dropped on the floor they'll remember they are in the game and slowly move closer to buying them on instinct like how people rush to an armory to instantly buy Shotgun+Welder combo just off of memory.
PRes notifications for Aliens regarding if they can achieve a certain life-form is about as important(if not more) as shotguns, jetpacks, exosuits, leap, umbra, xenocide. All of which have notifications, on-screen, displaying that they've been researched/unlocked. Sometimes, whenever I see shotguns researched, I'll phase back to base and immediately buy one. Quickly running back through the phase and into the fray of battle. Why can't Aliens have the same?
You can read the [*] above again if you want.
I'll restate again. Simply using the argument of, not wanting to dumbdown gameplay, is not valid. We've already introduced many non-gameplay destructive quality-of-life changes that make the game easier to keep track of things. Especially when (#2) already exists, but for research notifications! Shotguns are as important as Lerks, and jetpacks are as important as Onos. How many times have you seen a commander beacon as soon as jetpacks were up to form a jetpack rush?!
@joshhh No, but wouldn't it be a good quality-of-life change? Although, they probably wouldn't introduce that since it's actually part of the gameplay. The argument here however, isn't about introducing a timer for mega-spawn, which is for an entirely different game. It's about creating consistency in important events. What if mega-spawn(Xenocide) had notifications, but smaller-spawns(Leap/Bilebomb) did not? Wouldn't be make sense that, since the most important events in the game have notifications (Hive/structure being attacked) that similar/lesser important events have notifications? There are flashing lights, sound queues, and possibly rage occurring when all these other important events are available. Why not?
Could you give me a valid argument behind why this shouldn't be introduced, over examples: Names on minimap, power-node different colors, disabled ambient noise and map atmospherics?
Really, it's counter to a core concept of NS2, which is that nearly every piece of information about yourself and your team is available to you at any time. You can see research progress, your health, your ammo, team res, personal res, positioning on the map, who's in combat, what's being attacked, RT counts, who killed whom, who's alive, weapon timers, and so on. NS2+ and vanilla have been adding even more options to present this information in ways that are easier for people to consume. What you're not given information about is the other team, so you have to discover, infer, and guess about what the other team has, where they are, and what they're doing. That's where the skill comes in, and that's a big part of the game.
And sure, @joshhh, you can point to other games and say it'd be stupid if that game had whatever feature. You might be right. Different games can go in completely opposite directions on things and still be valid, but they should be internally consistent and cohesive.
@xDragon: I agree that it'd be a bit of a buff for marines, but particularly given the nerfs weapon lifetime has gotten lately (30->25 second despawn time, and slower marines in Comp Mod), I'm not that concerned about the lone marine scenario you propose, which is a lot less common than the marine group just getting entirely cleared and having to run all the way back. We've gotten quality-of-life improvements in the past that have also been buffs, like making ammo drops fill both marine guns instead of just the current one. These changes make the game much more pleasant to play. Cycling as it is looks like an unintended consequence of weapon timers being set when weapons drop, but since it's such an important tactic for marines, it would make a lot of sense to flesh it out and fix its many issues.
Our team, and every team for whom I've had the pleasure of mercing, has communicated these events over voice chat anyway, and uses those times strategically (lerk down, push left side now!).
If they happen to be wrong because it was a hallucination and they didn't realise (okay, it's a niche case I'll grant you), then the uncharacteristically successful sleight of hand by the aliens shouldn't be punished by removing that ambiguity. Unless you want notifications for hallucination lifeform deaths as well, and quite frankly that's going to get really annoying.
All Zefram's post was trying to say is that this is rudimentary basic awareness. Nothing more, nothing less. It's the same with a powernode timer... it really isnt needed.
Also, I really hope you can understand the difference between a commander researched upgrade that is unlocked which cannot be purchased by a player beforehand (would you want to check the armory each spawn to see if you can buy a SG?) versus something always available that you personally cannot afford yet.
And you may not be that concerned about the lone marine recapping a gun, but its still an important situation. Baiting the gun pickup is a good way to kill a marine attempting to recap a gun, and can easily make the difference in it being successfully recovered or not. If an entire group of marines gets cleared and they were not at a phase gate, its highly unlikely more than 2 would be able to make it back within the 25 second window, unless there were other marines already nearby. There are QoL fixes that are slight buffs, but weapon pickup vulnerability is a mechanic... Just like medpack pickup delay.
Obviously the knowledge of lifeform timings changes how you play. Any knowledge does to an extent. That's not an argument for why we shouldn't have that information however.
I am not concerned about this proposal, if it's implemented I will disable it personally, because as Joshhy correctly says, we won't need it and it's just clutter basically. At the same time I wouldn't care if others use it or not.
What does concern me however, is this reasoning to not implement it. Because this would apply to ANY information on the screen - including "base under attack" notifications or the pres counters on the scoreboard or bottom right of the screen.
I could just as easily say, "we don't need that junk, just keep an eye on the amount of harvesters you've had for how long and calculate your pres in your head - it's all part of the rudimentary basic awareness after all..."
Or "You don't need no mini-map! You can just coordinate all the information with your team mates - it's all part of rudimentary basic awareness man!"
These are the extremes of course, but don't pretend that ns2+ hasn't previously made information on the screen available that otherwise had to be accounted for by your 'awareness'. (Despawn-timers, weapon-highlights etc.)
Dragon's post should have shut down this conversation all together. There really isnt much more to say.