Competitive Playtests (Custom Maps)
MauvaisVitrier
France Join Date: 2014-04-10 Member: 195291Members, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond
France Join Date: 2014-04-10 Member: 195291Members, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond
(I've created this new discussion here, but wondered if it wouldn't fit better in the Mapping or Competitive Play sections. If that's an issue, you can move it to the right category)
COMPETITIVE PLAYTESTS - CUSTOM MAPS
The idea being this thread is to organize a group of volunteer competitive players in order to playtest custom maps. We all know that having a community is what makes a game stay alive. The NS2 community has a lot of awesome content creators and mappers. Due to the obnoxious and unituitive workshop system to look for player created maps, we constantly play the same maps over and over again, and mappers with their new maps (which are WIP for the most part) don't get the chance to have decent feedback from others players.
Although the SCC does a FCKING great job, it cannot be on every front and tackle every issue. That's is why I would love to see, very much like the SCC, the creation of a group of competitive players willing to give a little of their free time to help mappers improve their map.
Some mappers would love to see their map played during competitive games (gathers, pugs, etc...) or even in the NSL Season, but can't due to a lack of feedback. Without a proper base of competitive players they are not able to work effectively on their map and correct what is wrong/unbalanced, etc...
I'm quite sick of hearing this "I'm not playing on this map, it's aweful" tune, when the map is a work in progress (greyboxed, or mostly textured). You have to play a map, to make it better. Mappers are used to hearing their map being called garbage, but they mostly want to hear why, and how they could improve it.
Currently we have promising and interesting maps that need testing, and I'd like to get involved and invite everyone who is interested to join this thread and try to make this happen.
Inspired by the awesome guys of the SCC, here's what I think could work out great.
- 1 weekly competitive playtest session : 6 versus 6 (with all mods used in NSL).
- 1 and maybe 2 maps each session (depending of availability), with the participation of the mapper (whose map we would be playing on, if he/she can be there).
- 21:00 CEST on weekends (friday night or saturday)
Logistics :
I've heard Vindaloo tried/tries to organize PCWs on custom maps, and that Pelargir organized playtests some time ago too.
I don't have a server on which we could play, but there might be some solutions. So first I would like to ask if it would be possible to use once a week one of the NSL gather (Onfire) servers or the SCC's. Why ? Because Vindaloo is onFire and - if he is interested, and if the rest of the onfire team don't mind - already tried to organize this kind of thing before. They would just need to add maps to one of their server (preferably not the one on which NSL gathers usually take place) and allow us to play once in a week on it.
About the SCC server, I would also like to address the SCC group a request, even though that could be a little harder to organize : would it be possible to allow us to use your server ? I know there is no Comp Mod on it, but you have many many many custom maps.
That's the two ideas I got about the server. If someone wants to share another idea, please do.
About the TS/Mumble server : couldn't we use the ENSL TS ? i'm asking to the ENSL admins here if that would be possible to create a channel for our purpose, once the project grows.
I think that's about it. If I'm missing something please notify me in this thread. And let the world know if you are interested ! HYPE THIS UP
COMPETITIVE PLAYTESTS - CUSTOM MAPS
The idea being this thread is to organize a group of volunteer competitive players in order to playtest custom maps. We all know that having a community is what makes a game stay alive. The NS2 community has a lot of awesome content creators and mappers. Due to the obnoxious and unituitive workshop system to look for player created maps, we constantly play the same maps over and over again, and mappers with their new maps (which are WIP for the most part) don't get the chance to have decent feedback from others players.
Although the SCC does a FCKING great job, it cannot be on every front and tackle every issue. That's is why I would love to see, very much like the SCC, the creation of a group of competitive players willing to give a little of their free time to help mappers improve their map.
Some mappers would love to see their map played during competitive games (gathers, pugs, etc...) or even in the NSL Season, but can't due to a lack of feedback. Without a proper base of competitive players they are not able to work effectively on their map and correct what is wrong/unbalanced, etc...
I'm quite sick of hearing this "I'm not playing on this map, it's aweful" tune, when the map is a work in progress (greyboxed, or mostly textured). You have to play a map, to make it better. Mappers are used to hearing their map being called garbage, but they mostly want to hear why, and how they could improve it.
Currently we have promising and interesting maps that need testing, and I'd like to get involved and invite everyone who is interested to join this thread and try to make this happen.
Inspired by the awesome guys of the SCC, here's what I think could work out great.
- 1 weekly competitive playtest session : 6 versus 6 (with all mods used in NSL).
- 1 and maybe 2 maps each session (depending of availability), with the participation of the mapper (whose map we would be playing on, if he/she can be there).
- 21:00 CEST on weekends (friday night or saturday)
Logistics :
I've heard Vindaloo tried/tries to organize PCWs on custom maps, and that Pelargir organized playtests some time ago too.
I don't have a server on which we could play, but there might be some solutions. So first I would like to ask if it would be possible to use once a week one of the NSL gather (Onfire) servers or the SCC's. Why ? Because Vindaloo is onFire and - if he is interested, and if the rest of the onfire team don't mind - already tried to organize this kind of thing before. They would just need to add maps to one of their server (preferably not the one on which NSL gathers usually take place) and allow us to play once in a week on it.
About the SCC server, I would also like to address the SCC group a request, even though that could be a little harder to organize : would it be possible to allow us to use your server ? I know there is no Comp Mod on it, but you have many many many custom maps.
That's the two ideas I got about the server. If someone wants to share another idea, please do.
About the TS/Mumble server : couldn't we use the ENSL TS ? i'm asking to the ENSL admins here if that would be possible to create a channel for our purpose, once the project grows.
I think that's about it. If I'm missing something please notify me in this thread. And let the world know if you are interested ! HYPE THIS UP
Comments
Anyway, you're greatly welcome to use NSL Teamspeak for handling whatever you need to make it live and functional. Just contact me on Steam to get more informations about that stuff.
As NS2-FR admin, I can also provide a server (as I did in the past) with probably all the commands ingame you need (unlimited powers).
You would definitely need a Steam group or a forum (to post whatever you have to). Here again, there's a private section called NSL Maptesting with a few people getting access, that's pretty easy to reset and delete everything inside and start over. I'd have to contact other NSL members but take it like a doable thing.
So, a server (with all mods and needed maps), a Steam group that already exists with already all the mappers in (just need to clean a bit the list and announces and set other people as admins). A better way to communicate via Teamspeak and dedicated channels of course. And your own forum if you need this.
That looks like the old project I started a few months ago, and I needed someone to take the lead, that's awesome if yourself, you can do it, everything you need can be provided by NSL and/or NS2-FR. Just let me know if you're interested, and we could talk about that deeper.
http://steamcommunity.com/groups/competitiveplaytestscustommaps
@Pelargir : I will get in touch with you directly via Steam. Thank you for the info
TS : ENSL
Serv : NSL NS2-FR.com
Steam group : would it be better to use the old comp playtests steam group ? (Pelargir's)
Forum : Apparently we can have access to a private section called Mapping on the ENSL website.
I'll be taking care of all this. If people want in on this, you can add me on Steam.
I'll try to get everything ready for next week and see what we can achieve
There's only so much testing we can do and to have some competitive players have a good go at the maps will help.
SCC would be glad to let you use our server/Mumble if need be. I would really like to stress that good communication with mappers will help a lot here in regard to playing their map/getting them to watch. (I'd be more than willing to record for the mapper and i'm sure a few other SCC members/admins would too if times can't be worked out)
If you have any more questions please add me or Flaterectomy on steam.
First of all, eveything's been sorted out logistics wise, thanks to @Pelargir.
- We'll be using the ENSL Teamspeak:
address : ensl.org
no password
Go to Admin/Referee Channel => NSL Maptesting Lobby
You can access the lobby, but you'll need a password to get into the NSL Maptesting sub-chan, as well as on the Team #1 and #2
In order to get the password, you can ask me (via Steam or PM) or get into the Lobby when we're playing and someone will come see you and give you the password.
- NSL Maptesting Private Section :
http://www.ensl.org/forums/19
You'll need to request access to this section, to Pelargir or another ENSL Admin, I guess Pela told then about this maptesting stuff being live again.
Access has been granted to all mappers (that were already there before). New mappers will have to request access too. They'll be able to create new topics for their own maps.
ps: we can also talk about stuff here if you guys want. But ENSL forums sounds way more practical for our purpose.
- NS2-FR server :
I will soon have some Admin rights on the NSL NS2-FR server. We'll just have to ask Pelargir to add the custom maps we'll play.
password as you may already know is : ns2nsl
- Steam group : NSL Maptesting
We'll use the old Steam group. Pela's given me admin rights on it. So I'll publish news and announcements to notice you when a session is starting
You'll need to ask me for an invite. The group is still private. And it's better to add me on Steam so that I can invite you more easily.
http://steamcommunity.com/groups/nslmaptesting
When ?
What I proposed :
- 1 weekly competitive playtest session : 6 versus 6 (with all mods used in NSL).
- 1 and maybe 2 maps each session (depending of availability), with the participation of the mapper (whose map we would be playing on, if he/she can be there).
- 21:00 CEST on weekends (friday night or saturday)
But Pelargir told me he organized these session on Thursdays. I aimed at the week end so we could have Americans too joining us.
Why don't you give your opinion on that matter so we can sort a day together.
Hence, for now it will still be on Saturdays of Fridays.
About the maps & mappers still active :
Tex: Outer Rim Ark
Loki: Derelict reboot
Flaterectomy: Caged
Olmy/Insane: Relic
Lotnik190: Light
MasterG: Mineral
Vert: Prison
Fivz: Stratos
Kalopsia: Nothing
Mouse: Fusion
Deathshroud: Cradle Returns
Mephilles: Docking 2
PrevertMaximus: Orbital
F0rdPrefect: Frost
BeigeAlert: Temple
Loki: KodiakFIVE
Cetme (remade by Mouse): Penta
Howser: Fracture
Contact me if your map isn't in this list. And also tell me if you want your map to be tested for 6v6.
You'll have to get in touch with me to ask for a 6v6 playtest if you want your map to be fit for competitive games.
Depending on what you've recently done on your map, we'll sort out a kind of priority queue.
Like for example, we've tested Mineral a couple of times (6v6 and ffa) and MasterG is planning a redesign of his map, so testing his map won't be a priority until he has some new stuff. That way we can play other maps that have not been tested yet.
So now, I hope to have something ready and people up to the task by this week end. I'll post this message on the ENSL forums and on the Steam group as well, to let everyone know.
ps: It would be cool if we had some casters or people recording during our playtests. Pelargir told me Cr4zy and @Vindaloo did it before, so ?
Sunday testing has been great recently too, I could never say no to supporting another playtest night for the rapidly-evolving custom maps
Meatmachine, I've added you on Steam so I can invite you later on the NSL Maptesting steam group.
Btw, I've had some feeback regarding the day and time these playtests should take place. So that will be saturday night 21:00 CEST
Since we haven't played any of the custom maps (as the new NSL Maptesting group) we'll play maps that are requested to me.
The first one is Light from Lotnik190, and the second one is Fusion. Mouse didn't actually asked me directly, but we've talked about it a lot on his ns2_fusion thread. So that gives him the priority.
So September 13th 2014, 21:00 CEST :
- Fusion
- Light
On the NSL NS2-FR server.
I'll pots an announcement on the Steam group. Don't forget to add me on steam, or notice me that you want to join it so I can add you and invite you to the group (to get notifications).
My server can host 18 players. 12 comp + 6 mappers / viewers. Location Germany.
It's already is in this config (all custom available) and runs custom 24h/7d. I'm still testing this or that at the moment but it seems to be stable so far.
Teamspeak server is included in the pack. I believe it's gonna be a piece of cake to configure some channels.
So it's "All In One".
Also it can provide testing hours for East coast American players. Even if pings would be higher (~90 ~100) they can test later on their own. 9PM CEST + 6 hours (ATM) is late for European and just fine for these guys.
http://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/135538/server-custom-server-map-online
Also I wish to train rookies with the help of that kind of players but only on custom maps not official (there's a reason). But that's another topic.
Well I don't why not if there's comp mod on it and if the NSL NS2-FR is used for ENSL gathers.
I've chosen week ends (saturdays mostly) because I knew most Americans would be able to join us even at 21:00 CEST.
Thank you for the offer. We'll see how this goes as is, and adapt if there's an issue
I believe i can do that in less than 10 clicks. Web Interface is simplified as much as it can be.
This one?
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=241170965&searchtext=comp
If you don't have access to that private section, you'll have to ask me or Pelargir for that.
We also discuss that matter in here.
Don't forget to ask for an invite to the Steam group to get notifications. Just add me on Steam (mauvaisvitrier)
http://steamcommunity.com/id/mauvaisvitrier
It will take place on the NS2-FR (Paris) server. PW : ns2nsl
TS : ENSL server => Admin/Referee => NSL Maptesting Lobby => NSL Maptesting
The maps we'll be playtesting this time :
- Mineral (MasterG)
- Docking 2 (Mephilles)
That's all folks
ps :
I am warning some people here, although they might not hang often arround here. If you come to our playtest session thinking you can fuck arround and not play seriously, that's not interesting for us other playtesters and also for mappers. That doesn't help. The goal of this group is to playtest maps, check balance issues and stuff. So keep your 5 gorges strats to yourselves, else you'll be kicked. This is more annoying than anything else to the players that actually want to help mappers.
pps : I'm entering season 5 with my div 2 team. Never actually played competitive league but someone told me matches were scheduled on week ends. So what about moving our playtest sessions to Thursdays like in the old days of the NSL Maptesting programm ?
A lot of people go out on saturday nights, so next playtest will be at 16:00 CEST
Mineral and Docking2
So it's just freaking hard to find people to maptest. Even players that expressed their motivation and enthusiasm don't show up in the end.
Maybe it's the day that isn't fit for everybody.
But I can't on Mondays and Wednesdays, the ensl season is starting soon (so not on week ends), and thursdays seem to be dedicated to Combat playtest.
If people still show up on this thread and are interested, please vote :
http://strawpoll.me/2610455
Otherwise, this is dead, unless we get some help from the CDT or ENSL staff.
As is, people seem to not give a single damn about custom maps.
And people complain about NS2 dying.. I wonder why
...Welcome to the desert. Usually you cannot rely on gamers. Modders and Mappers are usually in a jungle trying to get somewhere. They hear voices but never see someone.
I won't say mapping/modding needs professional care, but it need a tiny bit of seriousness that is almost impossible to get with those guys. They sign up for everything but rarely show up on projects or keep interested. The most common case is they want to get access to satisfy their curiosity and that's it. Gamers are like that. Fast, cheap, like a burger restaurant.
It's sad that UWE/CDT aren't showing interest in it either. Comp will probably play Tram / Summit / Biodome for the remaining time NS2 has. Worlds of despair it seems.
Since the first NSL Maptesting, I've always asked to restart UWE Maptesting, the fact it is now planned for the future is an excellent thing in my opinion. In the meantime, just do it like if you were alone to deal with this project. My last attempt occured during 2 months and every sessions were full of players motivated (most of them) for giving feedbacks and helping mappers.
This is not an easy thing I admit, but there's enough people out of France to make it happen. Due to the timezone, EU and only a few US players can join these sessions anyway.