You can argue all day that it's those particular games that bring that level of toxicity, but all evidence points to the contrary, including our free to play weekends that we've had for NS2.
Whilst toxicity is certainly a concern that should be discussed, I don't think it's exactly fair to compare F2P to F2P weekends. It's not like the game going F2P will be like a F2P weekend but all the time. Perhaps maybe during the initial sales spike it would be equivilent. But afterwards, the white/green ratio will be much less problematic, even if there may be a steady stream of new players trying out the game after this spike. Eventually, the ones that stick around do learn, and potentially cease to be toxic.
Expanding on this, and addressing the suggestion of turning the reinforcement program into a premium package to keep the toxic players out - there's no need for that as community servers exist for those who do not wish to play with the greenies. Something that we've consistently failed to do for every green-wave is to seperate ourselves from those trying to learn. And whilst we like to picture ourselves as ambassadors/mentors to the new players and show them the ropes, often what happens is that the whites get frustrated at the greens for not keeping up with the fast-paced/little-room-for-error gameplay we're used to, and the greens likewise have no breathing room for them to experiment and get their bearings - something they would be able to do if they were insulated from the more impatient and demanding existing community of experienced players. Whilst the recent sales seem to be generating far too few players for this to work (at least in the AUS region), going F2P presents the opportunity (one which was missed previously) to roll with a more segmented approach to our servers, having newbie-only, mixed and experienced-only servers based on hours played.
I'm inclined to agree with RapGod on the other thing too - I don't want to be forced into buying reinforced when I already have black armour. I don't think anybody who actually bought the game, be it as an early supporter, or after release, or on a sale, or even gifted a copy should be forced to buy into reinforced, and if it were to be implemented as a seperation system for F2P (and I still argue it's not even necessary, and is perhaps even a bad idea when you can seperate based on hours played), then only the F2P users should have to buy in.
No, ns2 is not a game to be f2p. Developers must focus to polish NS2 and Spark and so on, and not to create a silly skins.
The only option to f2p model come true I see a creation a separate NS2 client, as I mentioned before. Like a demoversion, based on some previous stable build, with less options, no mods, less maps, vanilla only, only UWE servers. And people can play it for free. Then they can buy/upgrade for a "big" NS2. Everyone happy.
Modellers =/= programmers.
Well, sometimes (or perhaps, often) modellers/animators can program, but that's not the point I'm making. To suggest that going F2P will cause the people who are working on NS2 and Spark to work on skins instead is a completely ludicrous assertion. Programmers gonna program. Artists gonna art. People stick to what their specialty is. An engine coder isn't going to suddenly try his hand in 3d modelling.
I think I mentioned that the best way to approach DLC content creation was for community modellers to do it, have an approval process, and perhaps include an monetary incentive program (split of the proceeds) if people don't bother creating content without it.
I love how so many people here correlate "free to play" with "toxic" as if having a dollar to drop on a humble somehow makes you a better person. It's all about the game, what kind of behaviour it brings out in people and more specifically the type of players that game tends to retain.
No it's all about a pay wall, which ensures a certain age demographic typically thanks to credit card requirements.
According to an Electronic Software Association study in 2013 the average purchasing gamer age is 35.
And a certain age typically comes with a certain maturity level, if console players or other F2P games are anything to go by.
Eventually, the ones that stick around do learn, and potentially cease to be toxic.
Then why does this not hold true for other F2P games that have existed for years?
I'm just not seeing it, fellas.
Especially considering that F2P isn't always the holy grail of a solution that people make it out to be, if those player counts of more recent F2P games are anything to go by..
RaZDaZ brings it on a good point. For F2P we need:
- Matchmaking elements (for Balanced games and to avoid rookiewaves)
- A competent tutorial (to get rookies playing it)
- Some sort of progression/unlock system (to keep the new players)
Matchmaking should be a possible thing, a better tutorial too. Progression system could be harder, there we need some good ideas cause u can't use weaponunlocks like BF or CoD. That would be a lot of work for the CDT and they are not working on it, so these points doesn't matter anymore.
But when u have a look on the player peaks, u see we have a lot of new players while it was on sale/humble. So marketing is not the biggest problem. But the new players tried the game and left it, why? Because many new players are overwhelmed by NS2 strategies and gameplay. I still think we need a better tutorial, so the rookies stay. This would "only" be some scripting work.
So we know CDT don't work on F2P, what other solutions/ideas are you then working on? This would be nice to know...
Thank you james888, didn't know this. But those are only Bug fixes and game changes.
I don't see anything that attempts to prevent the shrinking of the community.
Thank you james888, didn't know this. But those are only Bug fixes and game changes.
I don't see anything that attempts to prevent the shrinking of the community.
I could argue that bug fixes and quality game changes would prevent the community from shrinking further and also help retain new players. There have been a number of performance improvements so far. Although this is only one facet of what one can work on to slow the player base from shrinking. I do not speak for the CDT either so what do I know.
There are several factors I can identify that give NS2 a hard time retaining players.
Sadly, some of them are actually what makes NS2 what it is, and hence hard to fix.
Straight off I'd like to point out that these issues only concern PUBLIC NS2, which is the starting point for almost every player.
Lets skip the high learning curve and performance issues, those are pretty obvious.
I'm going to focus on one particular
I'm going to focus on one particular lesser mentioned factor that can be summed up in one word, "waiting".
NS2 makes you wait for everything.
-Wait to get a slot on a server/wait for a server to fill up
-Wait for someone to get into the comm chair
-Wait for someone to get into THE OTHER comm chair
-Wait for the game to start again after a mass f4 from one of the teams complaining about stacking
-Wait for the server to fill up again after everyone left for one reason or another (like waiting for a game to start).
-etc.
Then loop to the top of the list on a new server.
Now, in a perfect NS2 world this wouldn't be an issue. There would be plenty of servers to chose from with a slot or two waiting for you to join. Competent comms would be more than happy to jump straight into the chair to get a game rolling. However, servers that don't suffer from these issues are hard to find and most of them will probably have a barrier of entry set up in play time.
Remember, we're talking about NEW players that have no servers scouted yet and will most likely join the first place with people playing, an open slot and decent ping. That's where
they'll be getting their first impressions.
Another factor is game length, this ties into the issue of waiting but is worthy of its own section.
NS2 games are long, now I know this doesn't stop games like Dota2 and LoL being insanely popular, but those are games where you play from start to finish.
In contrast to the f4 issue I mentioned before, NS2 games are also often padded out with end game turtles, and anyone who joins one of these games will most likely only have a slot on the losing team. Waiting for the round to end can be a long and boring process if you can't get the concede vote to pass.
The problem is that these issues are hard to fix. How to incentivise experienced players to jump in the chair but stop new ones from ruining games without accidentally blocking the chair off with restrictions? How to stop games from dragging out without forcing one team to simply give up?
One of NS2's greatest innovations and triumphs is also one of its downfalls.
You could compare the waiting notion with the 'queue' system other games, like csgo/dota2 have, but ultimately the largest issue that really makes people wait is "who is the commander", on some servers it's "obtaining balanced teams". The impact of both of these factors have such a huge effect on the quality of games, be it full of rookies or not is so huge that i can see so many things to go wrong and giving rookies a bad experience with the game.
It's funny that after playing the game longer and longer, i start to accept the idea that having commanders just might be the thing keeping this game from being as succesful as other games, aspect that used to separate and make it "better".
Ultimately, i guess what i'm trying to say is that NS2 as a "game mode", is not good to have only, the game needs another mode that is it's accepted "general public mode", that attracts and sustains reasonable player numbers. I don't know if the iteration of NS:Combat that we'll have at the end of the month, is what we need, but it's not like we haven't been playing basicly the "same game" over 10 years, it shouldn't be a suprise that keeping players for it is difficult.
I really don't want to buy reinforced when I bought the black armor.. so reinforced only servers... probably won't get money.
Anyway, having a huge green wave isn't necessarily going to bring terrible game. More servers that are labelled 'rookie' and the server is green, aren't really rookie friendly. Setup servers for certain hours played... noob vs noob and they'd learn on their own (obviously they won't be pros or anything). I know this would have to be managed by server owners and may be a pain in the ass.
I think this is a way to go. Add a new server option that states the lowest amount of hours required to play, and put that onto the server browser in some obvious way. If they try to join a server they're too low for, tell them why they can't join and what they should be looking for. (include a screenshot or something)
edit: also what i'm gathering from this last page is that if ns2 gets relaunched, alien commander should be removed in favor of having the gorge take his place like NS1. that should reduce waiting times as you only need to wait for marine comm while making gorge more fun and performance better due to the removal of infestation. if only...
NS2 doesn't need F2P (but it will help), it needs marketing (while its already done and game is old), better load times (fine if you have SSD), and better on boarding for new players. (Mostly beta engine)
This game is pretty much dead in my eyes. Good servers are usually empty or dies easily if someone leaves. Last spring was playable, but now I think this season could be last one for us (Saunamen). The biggest problem to hold players was the engine and learning curve (ns1 was a way harder than ns2). The game sold like crazy but why players left this game.. Many ns1 players or quitters told that engine was the blame.
While in Germany many comp players were talking with flayra and many agreed that f2p can be a good thing to ns2. I played NS1 (1.00 to last 3.20) and it was free. No big drama against cheaters or jackasses and ofc it will need more admin work. I will bet that f2p will be a good business move to sell current skins (I will buy all of them) if flayra decide to go f2p finally. And one more thing... After a long wait the combat comes back and I think its good to have (fast learning to play in aliens).. BUT remember this, combat will give more empty vanilla servers
If you hate rookies, just give rookie status at least to ?50hours? (steam hours) and they can join non rookies server if they want... NS2stats hour can be used for like pro servers.. Its easy to kick players today when comparing to NS1
My personal opinion is that game launched too early.. UWE got many angry customers and too many unsatisfied NS1 lovers. I can play easily AAA games without problems, but once I return to play this game I always get same feeling. Still buggy, hitreg (low rates/server performance),fps drops and game just feels laggy (finally got G-Sync)..But in the end I still love NS2 and I think f2p will help.
I see it time after time, a team with three or four people with commander badges and no one wants to get in the chair.
Now before the flames come in, I know the badge shouldn't mean anything but it does, it shows that that person has the basic understanding of the game.
If its being fed up of doing the role or lack of confidence in a specific team I don't know, that's a whole other thread.
I have noticed that commanders don't get as much stick these days, which is nice.
This became quite a rant, so I made spoilers to the things you may skip
I really dislike the F2P idea here for many of the reasons that have already been discussed here, so I won't repeat them.
I do think there's merit to a F2P month or something and have expressed this in the previous threads.
However - before we can even contemplate any of this, I think there are some more glaring problems that we absolutely need to fix.
How do we maintain the greenies after the spikes?
I believe the only solution is complete segregation from the veteran community.
They do not need "ambassadors" - in what game have you ever experienced anything like that? Maybe if we had different levels of servers (rookie only, rookie friendly, veteran i.e.), we can have "ambassadors" in the rookie friendly ones.
But we seriously do need to keep veterans completely separated (sorry @Itissupereffective).
Greens need to be able to experiment in their own pace. If they would like advice rather than experiment, they can join a rookie friendly when they are ready.
Next thing I believe we HAVE to fix before a F2P launch is; Encourage commanding. Many players try out this game because of the RTS elements. They actually WANT to command, but they are deterred by many different factors, including cultural and skill.
I have played RTS games since I was a kid (started with Warcraft) - and I started playing ns2 in the beta. I was very scared of jumping in the chair when I first started - so I jumped in a local game and taught my self the basic mechanics of commanding. This took me a few hours I guess. Then I jumped in the chair in the real game, and I just asked through the mic what they would like me to do, and told them that I was basically rubish. This was within the first week of me playing ns2. And when Build 250 was launched, I had to relearn commanding, but it was a similar experience for me.
The point I'm getting at is: The process of learning A build order that I could successfully pull off in a real match, took me 2 rounds per faction. And once you have that one build order down, you are likely to become very comfortable in experimenting later.
The stigma that exists in the ns2 community and always has is, that commanding somehow requires hundreds of hours of experience, and it is simply false! It requires good communication, and basic understanding of the mechanics. Whereas playing on the field efficiently actually takes thousands of hours. Rookies can and should command much much earlier in their gaming experience. If they did, games would start earlier, which will benefit everybody in the short and long term!
The problem is just. Most people are not like me, and won't make that crucial first step of learning the mechanics in a singleplayer enviroment. That is why we need a basic interactive tutorial for commanders (not videos! sorry @Itissupereffective).
So my proposal is, wether you make F2P or not - please make a tutorial for commanding first.
No it's all about a pay wall, which ensures a certain age demographic typically thanks to credit card requirements.
According to an Electronic Software Association study in 2013 the average purchasing gamer age is 35.
And a certain age typically comes with a certain maturity level, if console players or other F2P games are anything to go by.
If I may play devil's advocate for a moment. The person buying the game does not always equal the person playing the game. Because "Mooooom, a hurda new calladooty came out, buy it nao!"
The whole credit card point is trumped with gratuitous "allowances" put into steam wallets, trading items in steam and steam cards easily purchasable in retail stores all of which do not restrict age to perform.
But I digress, F2P scares the crag out of me, as I do also see it getting worse.
art style sensitive cosmetics with similar distribution styles to that of valve games so that your average pubbie can bet on matches.
As much as I love knowing people in pub servers like red and I would hate to see them drowned out by peasants, it's a worthy cause. In games like dota 2 and league, all public matches are garbage but you can skip it all by finding new but dedicated users to form teams and learn with them.
perhaps as an added luxury, as mentioned by another user earlier, a player stats profile that, in comparison to hive stats, would feature:
-being clientside, available at the main menu in game, with your best performing weapon/lifeform featured in realtime
-relevant and comprehensive data, not just score and k/dr
-improvement benchmarking
-career noteworthy achievments, such as most kills on a single lifeform
-if there are no outstanding stats(a standard deviation or two above average stats) that a user has to show for, in their place would be quirky or silly facts, such as amount of switch axe kills compared to the average user, or time spent as gorge per round,to make non competitive users feel special.
ultimately, this transaction (going f2p) would result in making the game more toxic and not reviving the game if the transition isn't monetized correctly. A small patch with a few bug fixes and added modding tools for cosmetics would be the minimum launch patch go alongside f2p right now, if you ask me. The first cosmetics available on the steam market would be the individual aspects of the shadow badge, and things like the camouflage skin would now be a trade able item. Weapon and lifeform skins approved by the community would be put into the game, either as a drop rate, in cases, or however is economically practical for the item.
bonageJoin Date: 2012-10-13Member: 162230Members, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
NS2 really only has a few options if it wants to continue chugging along. At the very least, here are the things it will need to sustain and grow the player base, assuming NS3 is unlikely:
== Lower the Price
- At the very least, if not f2p, the price needs to go down. It is currently $24.99 USD - for a 2 year old indie game, this is too much. Sales and bundles aside, a lower entry point of $5-$10 USD throughout the year is needed.
== Merge Combat and NS2 into the one game
- The decision to release combat as a standalone game is really quite baffling, and a missed opportunity to re-launch NS2. As separate .exe's, it's going to segregate the current community between two instances of the game. The argument that combat will provide an entry point into NS2 doesn't hold. Only a very small portion of any new players that combat draws in will have the urge to then buy NS2 on-top of it. To get from one game to another, they will have to exit combat game, close combat, purchase NS2, open NS2, find server. Too many steps involved that will most definitely have an effect on conversion rate. On top of this, people are inevitably going to shift to combat from NS2, meaning NS2 games are going to be even harder to find.
- Merge combat and NS2 into the one instance that allows players to freely go between combat and NS2, as you would in cs:go between dm, normal, and comp matchmaking. The issue with this is the logistics involved, as combat appears to be using new code, maybe a new version of spark too. Ideal world, they are both in the same launch screen/menu (think LoL client) at the very least.
== Implementation of in-game micro-transactions
- Skins, collectables, stickers, hats, badges, etc - cosmetic transactions work. Some people utterly hate them, but many people like them. They offer incentive for many different types of players from casual to comp to stick around and express themselves. New content that is refreshed on a regular basis is a good thing - it keeps a game fresh. We know community driven content that is then approved for in-game use by a dev team is also a very important part of sustaining and developing a community (look at the efforts already of many who have contributed to this game).
- Micro-transactions also offer another revenue avenue. Yes they won't draw large wads of cash initially, but NS2 isn't the money maker for UWE anymore.
- The purchase pathway needs to be in-game, ala cs:go, LoL etc. NS2's current DLC system for skins in the steam store isn't the ideal scenario. One needs to keep players inside of the game as long as possible, and not make them have to carry out additional external steps along the purchase pathway.
== Include 2 copies of NS2 for free with a combat purchase
- This is a no-brainer. If you want to funnel people from combat into NS2, the game needs to be included and free. An additional copy allows someone buying combat for the first time to share NS2 with a friend.
== Continued improved performance updates
- Better performance = greater chance of retaining people with low/mid spec setups. Not sure how much more can be done with the code and engine setup though, if anything at all without complete rewrites.
I'm sure the CDT have discussed these already and have some plans, but at the end of the day time ticks away and the game's player-base shrinks. Wouldn't be surprised if we lose 25% by the end of the year.
- At the very least, if not f2p, the price needs to go down. It is currently $24.99 USD - for a 2 year old indie game, this is too much. Sales and bundles aside, a lower entry point of $5-$10 USD throughout the year is needed.
This I agree with.
The price is way too high for two year old, multiplayer only shooter (RTS/FPS hybrid technically, but you get the idea) with a single official game mode.
It currently stands at 22,99€ on the EU steam store.
Out of curiosity I looked for a few older AAA titles on Steam and found NS2 to be more expensive than almost everything I found not named Call of Duty.
- The decision to release combat as a standalone game is really quite baffling, and a missed opportunity to re-launch NS2. As separate .exe's, it's going to segregate the current community between two instances of the game. The argument that combat will provide an entry point into NS2 doesn't hold. Only a very small portion of any new players that combat draws in will have the urge to then buy NS2 on-top of it. To get from one game to another, they will have to exit combat game, close combat, purchase NS2, open NS2, find server. Too many steps involved that will most definitely have an effect on conversion rate. On top of this, people are inevitably going to shift to combat from NS2, meaning NS2 games are going to be even harder to find.
- Merge combat and NS2 into the one instance that allows players to freely go between combat and NS2, as you would in cs:go between dm, normal, and comp matchmaking. The issue with this is the logistics involved, as combat appears to be using new code, maybe a new version of spark too. Ideal world, they are both in the same launch screen/menu (think LoL client) at the very least.
It's not being made by the same people, it's just being published by UWE. As far as I know, Combat is its own game under the NS2 "licence".
- Skins, collectables, stickers, hats, badges, etc - cosmetic transactions work. Some people utterly hate them, but many people like them. They offer incentive for many different types of players from casual to comp to stick around and express themselves. New content that is refreshed on a regular basis is a good thing - it keeps a game fresh. We know community driven content that is then approved for in-game use by a dev team is also a very important part of sustaining and developing a community (look at the efforts already of many who have contributed to this game).
- Micro-transactions also offer another revenue avenue. Yes they won't draw large wads of cash initially, but NS2 isn't the money maker for UWE anymore.
- The purchase pathway needs to be in-game, ala cs:go, LoL etc. NS2's current DLC system for skins in the steam store isn't the ideal scenario. One needs to keep players inside of the game as long as possible, and not make them have to carry out additional external steps along the purchase pathway.
While I agree that this is the only viable revenue stream for NS2 if it ever goes f2p, Its just not happening. This would require major tweaks to the game as well as a dedicated team dishing out new content on a regular basis.
Not to say this is impossible to pull off, assuming the engine can handle it, but the amount of work and finances (or at the very least time) and marketing required to make this a viable option pretty much rules it out.
== Include 2 copies of NS2 for free with a combat purchase
- This is a no-brainer. If you want to funnel people from combat into NS2, the game needs to be included and free. An additional copy allows someone buying combat for the first time to share NS2 with a friend.
Once again, Faultline are not UWE.
Also, the idea is ludicrous. Why would anyone purchase NS2 if they could just buy Combat and get two copies of NS2 for free. From their (UWE) point of view, it's not just about funneling people into the game, it's about getting them to BUY it. With a model like that, they would just as well go f2p, which at this point is clearly not happening.
- Better performance = greater chance of retaining people with low/mid spec setups. Not sure how much more can be done with the code and engine setup though, if anything at all without complete rewrites.
This is already happening, and has been for years, albeit with mixed results.
I'm sure the CDT have discussed these already and have some plans, but at the end of the day time ticks away and the game's player-base shrinks. Wouldn't be surprised if we lose 25% by the end of the year.
The idea of gifting NS2 (1 or 2 copies) with Combat isn't entirely ludicrous - but it does require a better way for UWE to make money in game from NS2 through (eg) microtransactions. Together, the points that bonage made do make some sense.
Also, people should consider here that with the smaller community in Australia, they are now experiencing the kind of server drought that WILL affect those of us elsewhere in the world over the next few months.
We would be wise to act NOW rather than wait until N America and Europe experience the same problems, by which time it may be too late...
DC_DarklingJoin Date: 2003-07-10Member: 18068Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver
Why do we keep seeing the idea to seperate vets from rookies.
What makes you all think there are enough rookies playing to make that worthwhile? On sales there may be many, but imagine the 3 rookies who buy the game this week.. (yes I just pick a number, I dont know how many exact).
If you separate they can only play with each other. LOVELY idea. Im sure the lack of 9 other players will never be a issue....
Also when is someone a vet? When his/her rookie green status is gone? When you are past 100hours? 200? 1000?
Okay we don't need to talk about F2P anymore, but all the other ideas like lower the price are worthless when we can't keep the new players.
I like the only Rookie-Servers, but then we need to higher the time for being rookie up to 50h. Better Tutorials with scripted events would also be wonderful for rookies so they learn the basics of the game. The available tutorial are just basics of moving around and abilities. But no teamplay or strategy.
What could be an option is training/tutorial mods with tips running on the rookie only servers.
BTW:@DC_Darkling
We are talking about only Rookie Servers, so no vets can go bashing newbies.
If they want to, they should still be able to join normal servers.
The idea of gifting NS2 (1 or 2 copies) with Combat isn't entirely ludicrous - but it does require a better way for UWE to make money in game from NS2 through (eg) microtransactions. Together, the points that bonage made do make some sense.
Also, people should consider here that with the smaller community in Australia, they are now experiencing the kind of server drought that WILL affect those of us elsewhere in the world over the next few months.
We would be wise to act NOW rather than wait until N America and Europe experience the same problems, by which time it may be too late...
It is ludicrous with the current business model. With a proper microtransaction model in place, it would be more than OK, but then again so would f2p at that point.
As I already said, it's rather unlikely that a vast microtransaction model will ever be implemented because of the sheer amount of work it requires.
As someone already mentioned, the only thing that can save the game at this point is marketing. Without marketing and constant exposure no amount of polish and shiny stuff tacked on will keep the game from going the way of the dodo. You need to throw it at the wall until it finally sticks. After that it will become its own driving force, at least for a while, with popular streams and youtube providing coverage.
Now here comes the kicker, professional marketing isn't free, but anyone can chip in to help advertise NS2 in one way or another. Be it by streaming, writing about it, producing trailers and other media.
I've done it on my stream, and while it only has a humble few dozen subs I have been told that at least one of my viewers bought the game after watching me play.
DC_DarklingJoin Date: 2003-07-10Member: 18068Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver
@Hoeloe
Ok then, fair enough. As long as rookies can still hop on the less friendly servers in case a pure rookie server is empty.
I support the idea with some ifs..
* Clear warning to noone rookies just in case OR for them the option to spec (or perhaps command).
* Plenty of non pure rookie servers. And I dont mean the 40+ kind. :P
* Clear indication to rookie that eventually they shall have to move to a new server.
It is ludicrous with the current business model. With a proper microtransaction model in place, it would be more than OK, but then again so would f2p at that point.
As someone already mentioned, the only thing that can save the game at this point is marketing.
I disagree. Marketing is not the Problem at this point. When there are Humbles or Sales the player peak raises to 5000 (actual av. 500-700). The problem is NS2 can't keep the new players. That is what we need to fix first.
I like the only Rookie-Servers, but then we need to higher the time for being rookie up to 50h. Better Tutorials with scripted events would also be wonderful for rookies so they learn the basics of the game. The available tutorial are just basics of moving around and abilities. But no teamplay or strategy.
What could be an option is training/tutorial mods with tips running on the rookie only servers.
From your post, you gave me a great idea, guaranteed to not suck.
NS2 Demo: the game is now free for everyone. Caveat: all players playing for free are stuck in Rookie Only servers. (Not rookie friendly).
NS2 Demo is exactly like regular NS2 except they can only play in Rookie Only servers.
Option 1: Player can purchase the game to immediately play on other servers.
Option 2: At 50 hours of playtime without payment, the player has the option to purchase NS2 at a discount.
Option 3: At 100 hours the player unlocks the rest of the game for free. At that point it's pretty much a given that they're a true NS2 player. Might as well reward them.
DOWNSIDES:
Someone's gotta pay for hosting the Rookie Only servers.
We need a coaching system that allows 1-2 Veterans to play as Commanders on said servers. We need this HARD. Enticement with badges and whatnot will probably have to happen.
No guarantee that Rookie Only servers will have enough players (but hey, it's free, right? There's bound to be plenty of F2Pers.)
Without veteran commanders, Rookie Only servers are likely to be even more of a clusterfuck than usual.
UPSIDES:
Our regular games won't be infected with F2P masses.
Any player worth his salt in the F2P cesspool servers will eventually join us. Everyone else ices out.
As someone already mentioned, the only thing that can save the game at this point is marketing.
I disagree. Marketing is not the Problem at this point. When there are Humbles or Sales the player peak raises to 5000 (actual av. 500-700). The problem is NS2 can't keep the new players. That is what we need to fix first.
It has been a long time since a sale has generated those type of numbers.
Comments
Whilst toxicity is certainly a concern that should be discussed, I don't think it's exactly fair to compare F2P to F2P weekends. It's not like the game going F2P will be like a F2P weekend but all the time. Perhaps maybe during the initial sales spike it would be equivilent. But afterwards, the white/green ratio will be much less problematic, even if there may be a steady stream of new players trying out the game after this spike. Eventually, the ones that stick around do learn, and potentially cease to be toxic.
Expanding on this, and addressing the suggestion of turning the reinforcement program into a premium package to keep the toxic players out - there's no need for that as community servers exist for those who do not wish to play with the greenies. Something that we've consistently failed to do for every green-wave is to seperate ourselves from those trying to learn. And whilst we like to picture ourselves as ambassadors/mentors to the new players and show them the ropes, often what happens is that the whites get frustrated at the greens for not keeping up with the fast-paced/little-room-for-error gameplay we're used to, and the greens likewise have no breathing room for them to experiment and get their bearings - something they would be able to do if they were insulated from the more impatient and demanding existing community of experienced players. Whilst the recent sales seem to be generating far too few players for this to work (at least in the AUS region), going F2P presents the opportunity (one which was missed previously) to roll with a more segmented approach to our servers, having newbie-only, mixed and experienced-only servers based on hours played.
I'm inclined to agree with RapGod on the other thing too - I don't want to be forced into buying reinforced when I already have black armour. I don't think anybody who actually bought the game, be it as an early supporter, or after release, or on a sale, or even gifted a copy should be forced to buy into reinforced, and if it were to be implemented as a seperation system for F2P (and I still argue it's not even necessary, and is perhaps even a bad idea when you can seperate based on hours played), then only the F2P users should have to buy in.
Modellers =/= programmers.
Well, sometimes (or perhaps, often) modellers/animators can program, but that's not the point I'm making. To suggest that going F2P will cause the people who are working on NS2 and Spark to work on skins instead is a completely ludicrous assertion. Programmers gonna program. Artists gonna art. People stick to what their specialty is. An engine coder isn't going to suddenly try his hand in 3d modelling.
I think I mentioned that the best way to approach DLC content creation was for community modellers to do it, have an approval process, and perhaps include an monetary incentive program (split of the proceeds) if people don't bother creating content without it.
The problem is: how do you market a game that has been out for 2 years now? Repeating what joshhhy said, what NS2 needs is to be re-launched.
According to an Electronic Software Association study in 2013 the average purchasing gamer age is 35.
And a certain age typically comes with a certain maturity level, if console players or other F2P games are anything to go by.
Then why does this not hold true for other F2P games that have existed for years?
I'm just not seeing it, fellas.
Especially considering that F2P isn't always the holy grail of a solution that people make it out to be, if those player counts of more recent F2P games are anything to go by..
- Matchmaking elements (for Balanced games and to avoid rookiewaves)
- A competent tutorial (to get rookies playing it)
- Some sort of progression/unlock system (to keep the new players)
Matchmaking should be a possible thing, a better tutorial too. Progression system could be harder, there we need some good ideas cause u can't use weaponunlocks like BF or CoD. That would be a lot of work for the CDT and they are not working on it, so these points doesn't matter anymore.
But when u have a look on the player peaks, u see we have a lot of new players while it was on sale/humble. So marketing is not the biggest problem. But the new players tried the game and left it, why? Because many new players are overwhelmed by NS2 strategies and gameplay. I still think we need a better tutorial, so the rookies stay. This would "only" be some scripting work.
So we know CDT don't work on F2P, what other solutions/ideas are you then working on? This would be nice to know...
I don't see anything that attempts to prevent the shrinking of the community.
I could argue that bug fixes and quality game changes would prevent the community from shrinking further and also help retain new players. There have been a number of performance improvements so far. Although this is only one facet of what one can work on to slow the player base from shrinking. I do not speak for the CDT either so what do I know.
Sadly, some of them are actually what makes NS2 what it is, and hence hard to fix.
Straight off I'd like to point out that these issues only concern PUBLIC NS2, which is the starting point for almost every player.
Lets skip the high learning curve and performance issues, those are pretty obvious.
I'm going to focus on one particular
I'm going to focus on one particular lesser mentioned factor that can be summed up in one word, "waiting".
NS2 makes you wait for everything.
-Wait to get a slot on a server/wait for a server to fill up
-Wait for someone to get into the comm chair
-Wait for someone to get into THE OTHER comm chair
-Wait for the game to start again after a mass f4 from one of the teams complaining about stacking
-Wait for the server to fill up again after everyone left for one reason or another (like waiting for a game to start).
-etc.
Then loop to the top of the list on a new server.
Now, in a perfect NS2 world this wouldn't be an issue. There would be plenty of servers to chose from with a slot or two waiting for you to join. Competent comms would be more than happy to jump straight into the chair to get a game rolling. However, servers that don't suffer from these issues are hard to find and most of them will probably have a barrier of entry set up in play time.
Remember, we're talking about NEW players that have no servers scouted yet and will most likely join the first place with people playing, an open slot and decent ping. That's where
they'll be getting their first impressions.
Another factor is game length, this ties into the issue of waiting but is worthy of its own section.
NS2 games are long, now I know this doesn't stop games like Dota2 and LoL being insanely popular, but those are games where you play from start to finish.
In contrast to the f4 issue I mentioned before, NS2 games are also often padded out with end game turtles, and anyone who joins one of these games will most likely only have a slot on the losing team. Waiting for the round to end can be a long and boring process if you can't get the concede vote to pass.
The problem is that these issues are hard to fix. How to incentivise experienced players to jump in the chair but stop new ones from ruining games without accidentally blocking the chair off with restrictions? How to stop games from dragging out without forcing one team to simply give up?
One of NS2's greatest innovations and triumphs is also one of its downfalls.
It's funny that after playing the game longer and longer, i start to accept the idea that having commanders just might be the thing keeping this game from being as succesful as other games, aspect that used to separate and make it "better".
Ultimately, i guess what i'm trying to say is that NS2 as a "game mode", is not good to have only, the game needs another mode that is it's accepted "general public mode", that attracts and sustains reasonable player numbers. I don't know if the iteration of NS:Combat that we'll have at the end of the month, is what we need, but it's not like we haven't been playing basicly the "same game" over 10 years, it shouldn't be a suprise that keeping players for it is difficult.
How would you handle sneaky pg requests?
That is what combat is for in my opinion. I see you agreed with ots above so I believe you feel similarly.
I think this is a way to go. Add a new server option that states the lowest amount of hours required to play, and put that onto the server browser in some obvious way. If they try to join a server they're too low for, tell them why they can't join and what they should be looking for. (include a screenshot or something)
edit: also what i'm gathering from this last page is that if ns2 gets relaunched, alien commander should be removed in favor of having the gorge take his place like NS1. that should reduce waiting times as you only need to wait for marine comm while making gorge more fun and performance better due to the removal of infestation. if only...
While in Germany many comp players were talking with flayra and many agreed that f2p can be a good thing to ns2. I played NS1 (1.00 to last 3.20) and it was free. No big drama against cheaters or jackasses and ofc it will need more admin work. I will bet that f2p will be a good business move to sell current skins (I will buy all of them) if flayra decide to go f2p finally. And one more thing... After a long wait the combat comes back and I think its good to have (fast learning to play in aliens).. BUT remember this, combat will give more empty vanilla servers
If you hate rookies, just give rookie status at least to ?50hours? (steam hours) and they can join non rookies server if they want... NS2stats hour can be used for like pro servers.. Its easy to kick players today when comparing to NS1
My personal opinion is that game launched too early.. UWE got many angry customers and too many unsatisfied NS1 lovers. I can play easily AAA games without problems, but once I return to play this game I always get same feeling. Still buggy, hitreg (low rates/server performance),fps drops and game just feels laggy (finally got G-Sync)..But in the end I still love NS2 and I think f2p will help.
Now before the flames come in, I know the badge shouldn't mean anything but it does, it shows that that person has the basic understanding of the game.
If its being fed up of doing the role or lack of confidence in a specific team I don't know, that's a whole other thread.
I have noticed that commanders don't get as much stick these days, which is nice.
I really dislike the F2P idea here for many of the reasons that have already been discussed here, so I won't repeat them.
I do think there's merit to a F2P month or something and have expressed this in the previous threads.
However - before we can even contemplate any of this, I think there are some more glaring problems that we absolutely need to fix.
How do we maintain the greenies after the spikes?
I believe the only solution is complete segregation from the veteran community.
But we seriously do need to keep veterans completely separated (sorry @Itissupereffective).
Greens need to be able to experiment in their own pace. If they would like advice rather than experiment, they can join a rookie friendly when they are ready.
Next thing I believe we HAVE to fix before a F2P launch is; Encourage commanding. Many players try out this game because of the RTS elements. They actually WANT to command, but they are deterred by many different factors, including cultural and skill.
The point I'm getting at is: The process of learning A build order that I could successfully pull off in a real match, took me 2 rounds per faction. And once you have that one build order down, you are likely to become very comfortable in experimenting later.
The stigma that exists in the ns2 community and always has is, that commanding somehow requires hundreds of hours of experience, and it is simply false! It requires good communication, and basic understanding of the mechanics. Whereas playing on the field efficiently actually takes thousands of hours. Rookies can and should command much much earlier in their gaming experience. If they did, games would start earlier, which will benefit everybody in the short and long term!
The problem is just. Most people are not like me, and won't make that crucial first step of learning the mechanics in a singleplayer enviroment. That is why we need a basic interactive tutorial for commanders (not videos! sorry @Itissupereffective).
So my proposal is, wether you make F2P or not - please make a tutorial for commanding first.
If I may play devil's advocate for a moment. The person buying the game does not always equal the person playing the game. Because "Mooooom, a hurda new calladooty came out, buy it nao!"
The whole credit card point is trumped with gratuitous "allowances" put into steam wallets, trading items in steam and steam cards easily purchasable in retail stores all of which do not restrict age to perform.
But I digress, F2P scares the crag out of me, as I do also see it getting worse.
public, client side ladders and
http://www.ensl.org/topics/1046?page=2
art style sensitive cosmetics with similar distribution styles to that of valve games so that your average pubbie can bet on matches.
As much as I love knowing people in pub servers like red and I would hate to see them drowned out by peasants, it's a worthy cause. In games like dota 2 and league, all public matches are garbage but you can skip it all by finding new but dedicated users to form teams and learn with them.
perhaps as an added luxury, as mentioned by another user earlier, a player stats profile that, in comparison to hive stats, would feature:
-being clientside, available at the main menu in game, with your best performing weapon/lifeform featured in realtime
-relevant and comprehensive data, not just score and k/dr
-improvement benchmarking
-career noteworthy achievments, such as most kills on a single lifeform
-if there are no outstanding stats(a standard deviation or two above average stats) that a user has to show for, in their place would be quirky or silly facts, such as amount of switch axe kills compared to the average user, or time spent as gorge per round,to make non competitive users feel special.
ultimately, this transaction (going f2p) would result in making the game more toxic and not reviving the game if the transition isn't monetized correctly. A small patch with a few bug fixes and added modding tools for cosmetics would be the minimum launch patch go alongside f2p right now, if you ask me. The first cosmetics available on the steam market would be the individual aspects of the shadow badge, and things like the camouflage skin would now be a trade able item. Weapon and lifeform skins approved by the community would be put into the game, either as a drop rate, in cases, or however is economically practical for the item.
also, commissioning ns2lounge.com for betting eventually
http://csgolounge.com/
== Lower the Price
- At the very least, if not f2p, the price needs to go down. It is currently $24.99 USD - for a 2 year old indie game, this is too much. Sales and bundles aside, a lower entry point of $5-$10 USD throughout the year is needed.
== Merge Combat and NS2 into the one game
- The decision to release combat as a standalone game is really quite baffling, and a missed opportunity to re-launch NS2. As separate .exe's, it's going to segregate the current community between two instances of the game. The argument that combat will provide an entry point into NS2 doesn't hold. Only a very small portion of any new players that combat draws in will have the urge to then buy NS2 on-top of it. To get from one game to another, they will have to exit combat game, close combat, purchase NS2, open NS2, find server. Too many steps involved that will most definitely have an effect on conversion rate. On top of this, people are inevitably going to shift to combat from NS2, meaning NS2 games are going to be even harder to find.
- Merge combat and NS2 into the one instance that allows players to freely go between combat and NS2, as you would in cs:go between dm, normal, and comp matchmaking. The issue with this is the logistics involved, as combat appears to be using new code, maybe a new version of spark too. Ideal world, they are both in the same launch screen/menu (think LoL client) at the very least.
== Implementation of in-game micro-transactions
- Skins, collectables, stickers, hats, badges, etc - cosmetic transactions work. Some people utterly hate them, but many people like them. They offer incentive for many different types of players from casual to comp to stick around and express themselves. New content that is refreshed on a regular basis is a good thing - it keeps a game fresh. We know community driven content that is then approved for in-game use by a dev team is also a very important part of sustaining and developing a community (look at the efforts already of many who have contributed to this game).
- Micro-transactions also offer another revenue avenue. Yes they won't draw large wads of cash initially, but NS2 isn't the money maker for UWE anymore.
- The purchase pathway needs to be in-game, ala cs:go, LoL etc. NS2's current DLC system for skins in the steam store isn't the ideal scenario. One needs to keep players inside of the game as long as possible, and not make them have to carry out additional external steps along the purchase pathway.
== Include 2 copies of NS2 for free with a combat purchase
- This is a no-brainer. If you want to funnel people from combat into NS2, the game needs to be included and free. An additional copy allows someone buying combat for the first time to share NS2 with a friend.
== Continued improved performance updates
- Better performance = greater chance of retaining people with low/mid spec setups. Not sure how much more can be done with the code and engine setup though, if anything at all without complete rewrites.
I'm sure the CDT have discussed these already and have some plans, but at the end of the day time ticks away and the game's player-base shrinks. Wouldn't be surprised if we lose 25% by the end of the year.
This I agree with.
The price is way too high for two year old, multiplayer only shooter (RTS/FPS hybrid technically, but you get the idea) with a single official game mode.
It currently stands at 22,99€ on the EU steam store.
Out of curiosity I looked for a few older AAA titles on Steam and found NS2 to be more expensive than almost everything I found not named Call of Duty.
It's not being made by the same people, it's just being published by UWE. As far as I know, Combat is its own game under the NS2 "licence".
While I agree that this is the only viable revenue stream for NS2 if it ever goes f2p, Its just not happening. This would require major tweaks to the game as well as a dedicated team dishing out new content on a regular basis.
Not to say this is impossible to pull off, assuming the engine can handle it, but the amount of work and finances (or at the very least time) and marketing required to make this a viable option pretty much rules it out.
Once again, Faultline are not UWE.
Also, the idea is ludicrous. Why would anyone purchase NS2 if they could just buy Combat and get two copies of NS2 for free. From their (UWE) point of view, it's not just about funneling people into the game, it's about getting them to BUY it. With a model like that, they would just as well go f2p, which at this point is clearly not happening.
This is already happening, and has been for years, albeit with mixed results.
CDT are not UWE either.
Also, people should consider here that with the smaller community in Australia, they are now experiencing the kind of server drought that WILL affect those of us elsewhere in the world over the next few months.
We would be wise to act NOW rather than wait until N America and Europe experience the same problems, by which time it may be too late...
What makes you all think there are enough rookies playing to make that worthwhile? On sales there may be many, but imagine the 3 rookies who buy the game this week.. (yes I just pick a number, I dont know how many exact).
If you separate they can only play with each other. LOVELY idea. Im sure the lack of 9 other players will never be a issue....
Also when is someone a vet? When his/her rookie green status is gone? When you are past 100hours? 200? 1000?
I like the only Rookie-Servers, but then we need to higher the time for being rookie up to 50h. Better Tutorials with scripted events would also be wonderful for rookies so they learn the basics of the game. The available tutorial are just basics of moving around and abilities. But no teamplay or strategy.
What could be an option is training/tutorial mods with tips running on the rookie only servers.
BTW:@DC_Darkling
We are talking about only Rookie Servers, so no vets can go bashing newbies.
If they want to, they should still be able to join normal servers.
Edit: Just saw this is already on the To Do List: https://trello.com/c/dgoMjaoT
It is ludicrous with the current business model. With a proper microtransaction model in place, it would be more than OK, but then again so would f2p at that point.
As I already said, it's rather unlikely that a vast microtransaction model will ever be implemented because of the sheer amount of work it requires.
As someone already mentioned, the only thing that can save the game at this point is marketing. Without marketing and constant exposure no amount of polish and shiny stuff tacked on will keep the game from going the way of the dodo. You need to throw it at the wall until it finally sticks. After that it will become its own driving force, at least for a while, with popular streams and youtube providing coverage.
Now here comes the kicker, professional marketing isn't free, but anyone can chip in to help advertise NS2 in one way or another. Be it by streaming, writing about it, producing trailers and other media.
I've done it on my stream, and while it only has a humble few dozen subs I have been told that at least one of my viewers bought the game after watching me play.
Ok then, fair enough. As long as rookies can still hop on the less friendly servers in case a pure rookie server is empty.
I support the idea with some ifs..
* Clear warning to noone rookies just in case OR for them the option to spec (or perhaps command).
* Plenty of non pure rookie servers. And I dont mean the 40+ kind. :P
* Clear indication to rookie that eventually they shall have to move to a new server.
I agree, this would be horrible.
I disagree. Marketing is not the Problem at this point. When there are Humbles or Sales the player peak raises to 5000 (actual av. 500-700). The problem is NS2 can't keep the new players. That is what we need to fix first.
Edit: Sorry for misquote @Roobubba
From your post, you gave me a great idea, guaranteed to not suck.
NS2 Demo: the game is now free for everyone. Caveat: all players playing for free are stuck in Rookie Only servers. (Not rookie friendly).
NS2 Demo is exactly like regular NS2 except they can only play in Rookie Only servers.
DOWNSIDES:
UPSIDES:
It has been a long time since a sale has generated those type of numbers.