<!--QuoteBegin--SmokeNova+Jan 9 2003, 09:35 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SmokeNova @ Jan 9 2003, 09:35 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Half-Life: 140,000 Players Currently Quake 3: 9,000 Players Currently Jedi Outcast: 7,000 Players Currently Battlefield 1942: 5,000 Players Currently Unreal Tournament: 3,000 Players Currently
hmm...why stay HL? more people play/own HL then the top 10 other FPS Online games.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> If you design a mod purely so that you can wallow in glory and have thousands flock to you, I say screw you. I mod to benefit the community, not so I can become a 'mightier then thou' figure and say 'Mine's more popular then yooooours!! nyanah nynah boo boo!'
Now, please, give me numbers of how many people played half-life three months after it was released?
<!--QuoteBegin--uranium - 235+Jan 9 2003, 10:34 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (uranium - 235 @ Jan 9 2003, 10:34 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--Weedkiller+Jan 9 2003, 07:53 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Weedkiller @ Jan 9 2003, 07:53 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Never mind that HL has won over 50 game of the year awards and UT2003 has won, what, just about nothing? I don't think HL looks that bad, and I've seen UT2003.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> First of all, UT2k3 hasn't been out long enough to declare it 'game of the year'. Unreal Torunament 1 was a nominee for GOtY a couple years ago. What Ut2k3 (Remember: NEW GAME) has won was just about every award they gave out at E3.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes, I think we all know that UT2k3 is a superior engine, but unless you are going to lead a team to port NS over to UT2k3, there is no need to bring up the issue any more.
Also, there is already a UT2k3 mod that is similar to NS, I mentioned it in my previous post in this thread, the link is there as well.
By the way, it's not the 'Unreal Tournament 2003' engine; it's the Unreal engine with a wider range of textures, model qualities, and polycounts to scale to. Unreal, UT, UT2003, and Unreal 2 are all based on the same engine, with minor tweaks, mostly to the interface. All the other differences are in the models, levels, and other media.
<!--QuoteBegin--uranium - 235+Jan 9 2003, 10:39 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (uranium - 235 @ Jan 9 2003, 10:39 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--SmokeNova+Jan 9 2003, 09:35 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SmokeNova @ Jan 9 2003, 09:35 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Half-Life: 140,000 Players Currently Quake 3: 9,000 Players Currently Jedi Outcast: 7,000 Players Currently Battlefield 1942: 5,000 Players Currently Unreal Tournament: 3,000 Players Currently
hmm...why stay HL? more people play/own HL then the top 10 other FPS Online games.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> If you design a mod purely so that you can wallow in glory and have thousands flock to you, I say screw you. I mod to benefit the community, not so I can become a 'mightier then thou' figure and say 'Mine's more popular then yooooours!! nyanah nynah boo boo!'
Now, please, give me numbers of how many people played half-life three months after it was released?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes it is nice to mod a game to benefit the community, but you will need a community first before you talk about benefitting it. It is kinda sad if I wrote a great mod and the only people playing is me myself and I.
true that UT2003 hasn't been out a long time, but I would be really surprised if it got half the GotY awards HL did. It just doesn't have the lasting power HL does. When first saw UT2003 it was when a friend showed it to me. He played for ten minutes, and then we moved on to some SNES games.
<!--QuoteBegin--uranium - 235+Jan 9 2003, 10:39 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (uranium - 235 @ Jan 9 2003, 10:39 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If you design a mod purely so that you can wallow in glory and have thousands flock to you, I say screw you. I mod to benefit the community, not so I can become a 'mightier then thou' figure and say 'Mine's more popular then yooooours!! nyanah nynah boo boo!'
Now, please, give me numbers of how many people played half-life three months after it was released?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> well that i agree but half-life did have a large amount of fans and you want to wait for 2 more years for the game in ut <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> if u want to wait i dun mind hahhaha
<!--QuoteBegin--Evil Timmy+Jan 9 2003, 10:43 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Evil Timmy @ Jan 9 2003, 10:43 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->By the way, it's not the 'Unreal Tournament 2003' engine; it's the Unreal engine with a wider range of textures, model qualities, and polycounts to scale to. Unreal, UT, UT2003, and Unreal 2 are all based on the same engine, with minor tweaks, mostly to the interface. All the other differences are in the models, levels, and other media.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Not exactly, the engine architecture has changed over the developement of Unreal. The first Unreal game released was using engine build 900+ or something. The current engine that powers UT2k3 is build 2166, there is a lot of difference between those 2 builds in terms of performance and capabilities so I won't say that they are "minor". Quake, Quake2 and Quake3 all uses the same BSP techniques pioneered by John Carmack, but you won't say the Quake3 engine is only a "minor" improvement over the Quake2 engine.
And for those that say "Graphics don't matter, gameplay does."
PLEASE PLEASE OH PLEASE EXPLAIN:
Why Valve released a 'high-res pack'. Why games always look better and better and offer the same gameplay and sell more then others? Why Half-Life won several awards for it's (at the time) ground-breaking graphics? Why *EVERY F-n game reviewer under the sun puts heavy weight on graphics?
Oh and here's a question: <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Half-Life™'s monsters are also remarkably--even terrifyingly--intelligent. Our proprietary AI has them running in packs, assessing threats and showing a marked distaste for suicide runs. You'd better think as fast as they do.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I played Half-Life many times through and I thought the bots were frankly only sub-par (Even for the time). I rarely saw teamwork, and the most startling thing I ever saw was when the grunts ran from grenades. Hell, as a point of how dumb they are, sometimes the grunts would crouch right on top of your grenade and hold their head. Dumb dumb dumb.
<!--QuoteBegin--Shadowz+Jan 9 2003, 10:49 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Shadowz @ Jan 9 2003, 10:49 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--uranium - 235+Jan 9 2003, 10:39 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (uranium - 235 @ Jan 9 2003, 10:39 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If you design a mod purely so that you can wallow in glory and have thousands flock to you, I say screw you. I mod to benefit the community, not so I can become a 'mightier then thou' figure and say 'Mine's more popular then yooooours!! nyanah nynah boo boo!'
Now, please, give me numbers of how many people played half-life three months after it was released?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> well that i agree but half-life did have a large amount of fans and you want to wait for 2 more years for the game in ut <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> if u want to wait i dun mind hahhaha<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I'm willing to bet that implementing it into ut2k3 would take at most a year. Models and textures and playtesting is done already. Models may need to be redone so they look halfway decent and textures could use some high-ressing (OMG 32 colors!!!11!1!1)
<!--QuoteBegin--uranium - 235+Jan 9 2003, 11:02 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (uranium - 235 @ Jan 9 2003, 11:02 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--Shadowz+Jan 9 2003, 10:49 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Shadowz @ Jan 9 2003, 10:49 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--uranium - 235+Jan 9 2003, 10:39 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (uranium - 235 @ Jan 9 2003, 10:39 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If you design a mod purely so that you can wallow in glory and have thousands flock to you, I say screw you. I mod to benefit the community, not so I can become a 'mightier then thou' figure and say 'Mine's more popular then yooooours!! nyanah nynah boo boo!'
Now, please, give me numbers of how many people played half-life three months after it was released?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> well that i agree but half-life did have a large amount of fans and you want to wait for 2 more years for the game in ut <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> if u want to wait i dun mind hahhaha<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I'm willing to bet that implementing it into ut2k3 would take at most a year. Models and textures and playtesting is done already. Models may need to be redone so they look halfway decent and textures could use some high-ressing (OMG 32 colors!!!11!1!1)<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Easier said than done.
Graphics DO matter: they are just lower on a list priorities of what makes a good game than most people. And good game reviewers do not put heavy weight on good graphics. They may say they don't look so good, or look really good, but EVERY good game reviewer I know of puts gameplay much higher than graphics.
And I don't know what was wrong with your AI, but I found it creepy playing against them. If I encountered a lone alien, it would run away only to come back seconds later with a pack. If I threw a grenade in the middle of a group of grunts they would say "Oh ****!" and scatter.
BadKarmaThe Advanced Literature monsters burned my house and gave me a 7Join Date: 2002-11-12Member: 8260Members
<!--QuoteBegin--uranium - 235+Jan 9 2003, 11:00 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (uranium - 235 @ Jan 9 2003, 11:00 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->And for those that say "Graphics don't matter, gameplay does."
PLEASE PLEASE OH PLEASE EXPLAIN:
Why Valve released a 'high-res pack'. Why games always look better and better and offer the same gameplay and sell more then others? Why Half-Life won several awards for it's (at the time) ground-breaking graphics? Why *EVERY F-n game reviewer under the sun puts heavy weight on graphics?
Oh and here's a question: <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Half-Life™'s monsters are also remarkably--even terrifyingly--intelligent. Our proprietary AI has them running in packs, assessing threats and showing a marked distaste for suicide runs. You'd better think as fast as they do.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I played Half-Life many times through and I thought the bots were frankly only sub-par (Even for the time). I rarely saw teamwork, and the most startling thing I ever saw was when the grunts ran from grenades. Hell, as a point of how dumb they are, sometimes the grunts would crouch right on top of your grenade and hold their head. Dumb dumb dumb.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Dude, it sounds like you really despise Hl. And for the high res pak, i have nothing agaisnt a *little* something to make the game look more sexeh.
OMFG, I Hate these boards. I just had a half-page reply but it did not show-up after I clicked reply and better yet is I can't go forward. Omg, I'm so ****. Anyway I was gonna say that HL is hell a lot better looking than this 2002 release, WW2 Normandy, Talk about Fugly for 2002. I don't think Hl is that bad. Remember this is a 2002 game pic. I had a wonderful post with many more games showing showing how HL is still better than most of them and a big story on how if we all had top o the line computers int his community we could have 2000+ w_polly HL maps with great framerate and amazing detail. So all in all, the community standards are the only thing that hold the HL engine back. We still have people with 8mb video cards and 400mhz processors. If we didn't have regulation than you would respect the HL engine much more. With a Radeon 9700, 2.4 ghz processor, 1 gig ram, you could enjoy 2000+ w_polly maps with little degration on performance. I can just imagine. It is possible to create level geometry up to par with some current popular games using the HL engine only it would be more difficult and mod mapping always has limitations for user friendly maps. Bah I'm still very emotional about my original post not working. Anyway just look at this and tell me HL is not better looking.
Edit, sorry thats a 2001 game <a href='http://gamespot.com/gamespot/filters/products/screens/0,11105,478782,00.html?page=12' target='_blank'>http://gamespot.com/gamespot/filters/produ...00.html?page=12</a>
Or this "LATE" 2002 release month 8 of 2002 release<a href='http://gamespot.com/gamespot/filters/products/screens/0,11105,914499,00.html?page=31' target='_blank'>http://gamespot.com/gamespot/filters/produ...00.html?page=31</a> (SAD huh)
Or this one which looks as if it just came out of CS gameplay although its a 2001 game <a href='http://gamespot.com/gamespot/filters/products/screens/0,11105,561357,00.html?page=17' target='_blank'>http://gamespot.com/gamespot/filters/produ...00.html?page=17</a> (heh, nice sky and sand texture work there)
uranium - 235, if you hate HL so much then don't play it. There are many people on the boards who think that a game dosen't have to have mind blowing graphics to be good. Me? I like the NS look, think its better than most games out there. Many developers take too much time polishing the game for punks like you and not enough time on everything else. It seems strange to me that you have so many posts on a board dedicated to a game you hate.
I know this has been said over and over, but I still feel like I have to say SOMETHING here...
I've been a programmer since 1984 (The year, not the game), and I've been playing 3D shooters since Doom I (I never really got into wolfenstein). I look at the game boxes on my shelves, and I see nothing but boredom, with only a few exceptions. Very few games have managed to entertain me for more than a week, after which time I look at the price tag on the box and think, "Why did I waste my money on this?"
There's a reason Half-Life is, what, five years old (?), and still so popular... The modding community. Sure, Half-Life was popular for a while on its own, but without mods like TFC and CS, it never would have lasted more than a couple years before people moved on to the next great thing...
Now, let's address a few of these issues...
1) Half-Life is vastly inferior to the modern game engines. Why use it?
Why not use it? It may not be as high-res as the latest titles, but it's well-known, is highly-optimized towards multiplayer (Take a look at the differences in bandwidth usage between HL and the oh-so-great modern titles), and has extensive support for the modding community. Valve puts forth the extra effort to help out mod developers, something most other game companies ignore.
2) But the graphics still aren't as good as the other games!
Who gives a flying #%(@*&#? Graphics are necessary, to a point. No one wants to play a game that looks like Doom 1/2, because it's not the least bit realistic or believable. But once the graphics are detailed enough to make you feel like you're IN the game, why go further? Simple. So you can brag about how much better your engine is, and get more sales. Speaking from a long-time gamer's perspective, the graphics DO NOT make the game.
Take a look at another of the most popular games of late... Rollercoaster Tycoon. The graphics are such that you can easily see individual pixels, and the animation is so jerky that objects often turn 45 or 90 degrees without any intermediate frames. And.... ready for this? It's not even 3D! So why is it, and its recently-released sequel, so popular? Because of the GAMEPLAY.
Alright, I realize I'm ranting... I didn't intend to write this much, but at least I've made my point... Let me just say that I've played hundreds of computer games in my lifetime, and the ones that I still feel were WORTH the money I paid could be counted on my fingers. Half-Life is one of them. 'nuff said.
I hate the engine, I don't hate NS. I know if they had chosen a better engine the game would look (And therefore feel) a lot creepier and more realistic.
Oh and in the first 'crappy graphics' shot, it looks like a butter knife in his hand...
1. It has a large fan base - You dont want your work to have been for nothing, you want as many people to enjoy it as possible. HL has more players and a large mod community
2. HL Can run on low end systems. 6 Months ago I was running on an AMD K62 300, 16 Mb of ram with a cirrus logic 500k memory video card. Yet I survived by playing ancient games. I then upgraded to a better comp, got my old copy of HL out and started playing that, end to end. The lower the System requirements are, the more people it can appeal to.
3. HL is relatively cheap - Yes it is, in certain places, it sells for ten or twenty dollars, it's dirt cheap. Compare it to modern games, you pay 80 bucks for nice graphics. Wow, that was really worth it...
4. HL is more readily moddable - Half life is by far one of the easiest FPS games to mod for. It uses C++, giving programmers an easier learning curve, most modelling software supports HL, even 3D Studio Max. On top of this, you have a company willing to give support to the community by releasing the SDK package, updating it's editing software for mapping and allows third parties to develop their own software.
5. There are problems with other engines - I dont know about you, but when I play Unreal/UT or Quake 2/3, I like the graphics. They carry higher resolution, look better and nicer, and add to the feel. But the problem with them is, they look far too cartoonish. HL is a more "Gritty" engine. Look around in NS, you see every texture, every render, it looks dirty, and somehow, it looks more real becuase of it.
6. Valve Supports it's game - Yep, valve has been helping out the community since HL's release. They've overhualed their network code, reworked the engine (compare unpatched HL to patched HL to see the difference), added Voice communication, added support for modern video cards, added the High Definition Package (it only updates certain weapon models really and is an optional install) and most importantly, they support the mod community against cheaters and bugs.
The real question of this topic is, Why Not HL? (as mentioned before by someone with a bit of wit).
Those games are the fugliest ever! especially WW2 Normandy, i was actually laughing out loud, i feel so bad for the people who have to insult their eyes with that. and even more for the people who made it!
I AM TRULY SORRY!
<a href='http://gamespot.com/gamespot/filters/products/screens/0,11105,478782,00.html?page=8' target='_blank'>Bazooka breaking the sound barrier?</a>
<a href='http://gamespot.com/gamespot/filters/products/screens/0,11105,478782,00.html?page=10' target='_blank'>The retarded air borne regiment?</a>
<a href='http://gamespot.com/gamespot/filters/products/screens/0,11105,914499,00.html?page=27' target='_blank'>hey...whats that on the ground?</a>
Looks like they just got buzzed off some snort ( check ground )
<!--QuoteBegin--zerohaste+Jan 9 2003, 02:20 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (zerohaste @ Jan 9 2003, 02:20 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I see the reason for going with HL, but I still can't help but wish it was on a slightly better engine. I think and engine like the Unreal Tournament engine (not UT2003, just UT) would have been perfect.
/shrug It doesn't really matter.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Exactly. Doesn't really matter. Though I am sure many players with fast new machines would WISH that it was using a newer engine, but that doesn't mean we'll stoop to some idiotic turpentine & shite comparisson while having the audacity to claim we aren't trying to slight.
<!--QuoteBegin--littlewild+Jan 9 2003, 04:26 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (littlewild @ Jan 9 2003, 04:26 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Also, there <b>IS</b> a UT2k3 mod similar to NS that is under developement. It is called Battle Command <a href='http://mods.moddb.com/611/' target='_blank'>http://mods.moddb.com/611/</a>
Looks promising if they can actually find a coder and get things going, the last time I checked, they have some nice looking gun models.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Heh, yeah. Throw up a bit of artwork and a spiffy website, and you've got people's attention. If NS took this long to complete, how long won't that project take? I'd be surprised if we see anything reaching NS's sublimity for a long, long time to come.
Aaronvroom vroom der party startahJoin Date: 2002-11-05Member: 7020Members
<!--QuoteBegin--MayIPostNow?+Jan 9 2003, 11:56 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MayIPostNow? @ Jan 9 2003, 11:56 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->What are the 5 best games of all time?
PONG MULE ZORK XCOM HL
None of these meet the standards of ungodly graphics, but try them out. You will become addicted to a few.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> XCOM IS TEH L33T!
<!--QuoteBegin--uranium - 235+Jan 9 2003, 05:00 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (uranium - 235 @ Jan 9 2003, 05:00 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->And for those that say "Graphics don't matter, gameplay does." PLEASE PLEASE OH PLEASE EXPLAIN:
Why Valve released a 'high-res pack'.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I am sure nobody meant it doesnt matter entirely, but it plays second fiddle to good gameplay when push comes to shove. And good gfx lures in the unwashed masses. No one wants an ugly game if they've got a choice. Also to wringe more profit out of an old workhorse.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Why games always look better and better and offer the same gameplay and sell more then others?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> SELL more than others? Why wasn't HL the super seller of them? Which 3d-shooter has accomplished to outsell Half-Life so far? And because in a competitive market place, where superficiality is the selling point, they pretty darned sure want to have a GOOD looking game so attention deficited vid kidz 1,5 second attention span can be caught "OOOOOOOOOH SHINYYYYYY". And their pride. Artistic pride.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Why Half-Life won several awards for it's (at the time) ground-breaking graphics?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I wasn't aware that HL had won awards for gfx, but most likely because the industry likes patting each other's backs and awards are those pseudo events created for attracting attention to triteness.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Why *EVERY F-n game reviewer under the sun puts heavy weight on graphics?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Because they think it matters. Because they know that everyone else likes purdy graphics. It just doesn't change the fact that I'd prefer a good game with sucky graphics to a sucky game with gorgeous graphics any day. And nor would the reviewers. But there are so many games out there, and subjective criterias are hard to "review", which is all the stuff that we experience as gameplay, story, suspense, action. The sound and graphics are nice, objective things you can give a score.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I played Half-Life many times through and I thought the bots were frankly only sub-par (Even for the time). I rarely saw teamwork, and the most startling thing I ever saw was when the grunts ran from grenades. Hell, as a point of how dumb they are, sometimes the grunts would crouch right on top of your grenade and hold their head. Dumb dumb dumb. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--BadKarma+Jan 9 2003, 05:27 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BadKarma @ Jan 9 2003, 05:27 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->And for the high res pak, i have nothing agaisnt a *little* something to make the game look more sexeh.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> That hi-res pack, does it do ANYTHING for half-life's mods or is it just the game itself that gets a small visual spicer upper?
Half-life is good enough for NS, and as said a lot before, a lot of ppl have it.. it doesnt require stupidly high spec machines, and doesnt NEED broadband to play a decent game (altho it does help).
Whereas UT2K3 needs a stupidly specced machine (i know, i have it... My bro has a GF4, a Pentium 1 gig, and 512mb of ram, and it still runs slow <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->), and broadband comes in useful (i would recommend it, coz i have a couple of mates who have UT2K3 on 56K's, and its ****).
If its good enough where it is, why change? it would just be a waste of time....
realityisdeadEmployed by Raven Software after making ns_nothingJoin Date: 2002-01-26Member: 94Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
edited January 2003
<!--QuoteBegin--uranium - 235+Jan 9 2003, 02:39 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (uranium - 235 @ Jan 9 2003, 02:39 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If you design a mod purely so that you can wallow in glory and have thousands flock to you, I say screw you. I mod to benefit the community, not so I can become a 'mightier then thou' figure and say 'Mine's more popular then yooooours!! nyanah nynah boo boo!'<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> You may want to chill on the hostility, uranium.
I don't know what some of you in here are trying to achieve, but the blatant mocking and hatred needs to stop. I see a lot of people attempting to put game developers, in general, under a bad light here... and it's pretty disgusting. I may just be reading some of these wrong, but Christ...
Anyway, in response to the above quote, I think it's safe to say that most of the people who created NS are aiming to get a job in the industry in the near future. Having that much more people playing your game, or having it that well-known... is only going to be beneficial to getting you there. If you honestly believe that the team would approach it with that kind of attitude you portrayed above, you've already got the wrong mindset in place. Perhaps your comment could apply to some other mod development teams out there... I'm sure a lot of them are just out there for some short-lived attention, and will never take the hobby beyond that... but I don't think it's terribly difficult to see how professionaly this one is being handled. If that's not a sign of intent, I don't know what is.
Comments
Quake 3: 9,000 Players Currently
Jedi Outcast: 7,000 Players Currently
Battlefield 1942: 5,000 Players Currently
Unreal Tournament: 3,000 Players Currently
hmm...why stay HL? more people play/own HL then the top 10 other FPS Online games.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you design a mod purely so that you can wallow in glory and have thousands flock to you, I say screw you. I mod to benefit the community, not so I can become a 'mightier then thou' figure and say 'Mine's more popular then yooooours!! nyanah nynah boo boo!'
Now, please, give me numbers of how many people played half-life three months after it was released?
First of all, UT2k3 hasn't been out long enough to declare it 'game of the year'. Unreal Torunament 1 was a nominee for GOtY a couple years ago. What Ut2k3 (Remember: NEW GAME) has won was just about every award they gave out at E3.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, I think we all know that UT2k3 is a superior engine, but unless you are going to lead a team to port NS over to UT2k3, there is no need to bring up the issue any more.
Also, there is already a UT2k3 mod that is similar to NS, I mentioned it in my previous post in this thread, the link is there as well.
Quake 3: 9,000 Players Currently
Jedi Outcast: 7,000 Players Currently
Battlefield 1942: 5,000 Players Currently
Unreal Tournament: 3,000 Players Currently
hmm...why stay HL? more people play/own HL then the top 10 other FPS Online games.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you design a mod purely so that you can wallow in glory and have thousands flock to you, I say screw you. I mod to benefit the community, not so I can become a 'mightier then thou' figure and say 'Mine's more popular then yooooours!! nyanah nynah boo boo!'
Now, please, give me numbers of how many people played half-life three months after it was released?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes it is nice to mod a game to benefit the community, but you will need a community first before you talk about benefitting it. It is kinda sad if I wrote a great mod and the only people playing is me myself and I.
Now, please, give me numbers of how many people played half-life three months after it was released?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
well that i agree but half-life did have a large amount of fans and you want to wait for 2 more years for the game in ut <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> if u want to wait i dun mind hahhaha
Not exactly, the engine architecture has changed over the developement of Unreal. The first Unreal game released was using engine build 900+ or something. The current engine that powers UT2k3 is build 2166, there is a lot of difference between those 2 builds in terms of performance and capabilities so I won't say that they are "minor". Quake, Quake2 and Quake3 all uses the same BSP techniques pioneered by John Carmack, but you won't say the Quake3 engine is only a "minor" improvement over the Quake2 engine.
PLEASE PLEASE OH PLEASE EXPLAIN:
Why Valve released a 'high-res pack'.
Why games always look better and better and offer the same gameplay and sell more then others?
Why Half-Life won several awards for it's (at the time) ground-breaking graphics?
Why *EVERY F-n game reviewer under the sun puts heavy weight on graphics?
Oh and here's a question:
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
Half-Life™'s monsters are also remarkably--even terrifyingly--intelligent. Our proprietary AI has them running in packs, assessing threats and showing a marked distaste for suicide runs. You'd better think as fast as they do.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I played Half-Life many times through and I thought the bots were frankly only sub-par (Even for the time). I rarely saw teamwork, and the most startling thing I ever saw was when the grunts ran from grenades. Hell, as a point of how dumb they are, sometimes the grunts would crouch right on top of your grenade and hold their head. Dumb dumb dumb.
A: Yes.
NS is the best game in existance, no other mod written for other engines touches it with a v.long pole, hence the right decision was made.
If you disagree with the above statement, go play that other mod.
K? THX, BI.
Incedently if you haven't yet seen it go watch 'tales for the l33t: romeo and juliet'
BlueGhost
Now, please, give me numbers of how many people played half-life three months after it was released?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
well that i agree but half-life did have a large amount of fans and you want to wait for 2 more years for the game in ut <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> if u want to wait i dun mind hahhaha<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm willing to bet that implementing it into ut2k3 would take at most a year. Models and textures and playtesting is done already. Models may need to be redone so they look halfway decent and textures could use some high-ressing (OMG 32 colors!!!11!1!1)
Now, please, give me numbers of how many people played half-life three months after it was released?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
well that i agree but half-life did have a large amount of fans and you want to wait for 2 more years for the game in ut <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> if u want to wait i dun mind hahhaha<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm willing to bet that implementing it into ut2k3 would take at most a year. Models and textures and playtesting is done already. Models may need to be redone so they look halfway decent and textures could use some high-ressing (OMG 32 colors!!!11!1!1)<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Easier said than done.
And I don't know what was wrong with your AI, but I found it creepy playing against them. If I encountered a lone alien, it would run away only to come back seconds later with a pack. If I threw a grenade in the middle of a group of grunts they would say "Oh ****!" and scatter.
PLEASE PLEASE OH PLEASE EXPLAIN:
Why Valve released a 'high-res pack'.
Why games always look better and better and offer the same gameplay and sell more then others?
Why Half-Life won several awards for it's (at the time) ground-breaking graphics?
Why *EVERY F-n game reviewer under the sun puts heavy weight on graphics?
Oh and here's a question:
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
Half-Life™'s monsters are also remarkably--even terrifyingly--intelligent. Our proprietary AI has them running in packs, assessing threats and showing a marked distaste for suicide runs. You'd better think as fast as they do.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I played Half-Life many times through and I thought the bots were frankly only sub-par (Even for the time). I rarely saw teamwork, and the most startling thing I ever saw was when the grunts ran from grenades. Hell, as a point of how dumb they are, sometimes the grunts would crouch right on top of your grenade and hold their head. Dumb dumb dumb.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Dude, it sounds like you really despise Hl. And for the high res pak, i have nothing agaisnt a *little* something to make the game look more sexeh.
Edit, sorry thats a 2001 game
<a href='http://gamespot.com/gamespot/filters/products/screens/0,11105,478782,00.html?page=12' target='_blank'>http://gamespot.com/gamespot/filters/produ...00.html?page=12</a>
Or this "LATE" 2002 release month 8 of 2002 release<a href='http://gamespot.com/gamespot/filters/products/screens/0,11105,914499,00.html?page=31' target='_blank'>http://gamespot.com/gamespot/filters/produ...00.html?page=31</a> (SAD huh)
Or this one which looks as if it just came out of CS gameplay although its a 2001 game
<a href='http://gamespot.com/gamespot/filters/products/screens/0,11105,561357,00.html?page=17' target='_blank'>http://gamespot.com/gamespot/filters/produ...00.html?page=17</a>
(heh, nice sky and sand texture work there)
I've been a programmer since 1984 (The year, not the game), and I've been playing 3D shooters since Doom I (I never really got into wolfenstein). I look at the game boxes on my shelves, and I see nothing but boredom, with only a few exceptions. Very few games have managed to entertain me for more than a week, after which time I look at the price tag on the box and think, "Why did I waste my money on this?"
There's a reason Half-Life is, what, five years old (?), and still so popular... The modding community. Sure, Half-Life was popular for a while on its own, but without mods like TFC and CS, it never would have lasted more than a couple years before people moved on to the next great thing...
Now, let's address a few of these issues...
1) Half-Life is vastly inferior to the modern game engines. Why use it?
Why not use it? It may not be as high-res as the latest titles, but it's well-known, is highly-optimized towards multiplayer (Take a look at the differences in bandwidth usage between HL and the oh-so-great modern titles), and has extensive support for the modding community. Valve puts forth the extra effort to help out mod developers, something most other game companies ignore.
2) But the graphics still aren't as good as the other games!
Who gives a flying #%(@*&#? Graphics are necessary, to a point. No one wants to play a game that looks like Doom 1/2, because it's not the least bit realistic or believable. But once the graphics are detailed enough to make you feel like you're IN the game, why go further? Simple. So you can brag about how much better your engine is, and get more sales. Speaking from a long-time gamer's perspective, the graphics DO NOT make the game.
Take a look at another of the most popular games of late... Rollercoaster Tycoon. The graphics are such that you can easily see individual pixels, and the animation is so jerky that objects often turn 45 or 90 degrees without any intermediate frames. And.... ready for this? It's not even 3D! So why is it, and its recently-released sequel, so popular? Because of the GAMEPLAY.
Alright, I realize I'm ranting... I didn't intend to write this much, but at least I've made my point... Let me just say that I've played hundreds of computer games in my lifetime, and the ones that I still feel were WORTH the money I paid could be counted on my fingers. Half-Life is one of them. 'nuff said.
Oh and in the first 'crappy graphics' shot, it looks like a butter knife in his hand...
1. It has a large fan base - You dont want your work to have been for nothing, you want as many people to enjoy it as possible. HL has more players and a large mod community
2. HL Can run on low end systems. 6 Months ago I was running on an AMD K62 300, 16 Mb of ram with a cirrus logic 500k memory video card. Yet I survived by playing ancient games. I then upgraded to a better comp, got my old copy of HL out and started playing that, end to end. The lower the System requirements are, the more people it can appeal to.
3. HL is relatively cheap - Yes it is, in certain places, it sells for ten or twenty dollars, it's dirt cheap. Compare it to modern games, you pay 80 bucks for nice graphics. Wow, that was really worth it...
4. HL is more readily moddable - Half life is by far one of the easiest FPS games to mod for. It uses C++, giving programmers an easier learning curve, most modelling software supports HL, even 3D Studio Max. On top of this, you have a company willing to give support to the community by releasing the SDK package, updating it's editing software for mapping and allows third parties to develop their own software.
5. There are problems with other engines - I dont know about you, but when I play Unreal/UT or Quake 2/3, I like the graphics. They carry higher resolution, look better and nicer, and add to the feel. But the problem with them is, they look far too cartoonish. HL is a more "Gritty" engine. Look around in NS, you see every texture, every render, it looks dirty, and somehow, it looks more real becuase of it.
6. Valve Supports it's game - Yep, valve has been helping out the community since HL's release. They've overhualed their network code, reworked the engine (compare unpatched HL to patched HL to see the difference), added Voice communication, added support for modern video cards, added the High Definition Package (it only updates certain weapon models really and is an optional install) and most importantly, they support the mod community against cheaters and bugs.
The real question of this topic is, Why Not HL? (as mentioned before by someone with a bit of wit).
I AM TRULY SORRY!
<a href='http://gamespot.com/gamespot/filters/products/screens/0,11105,478782,00.html?page=8' target='_blank'>Bazooka breaking the sound barrier?</a>
<a href='http://gamespot.com/gamespot/filters/products/screens/0,11105,478782,00.html?page=10' target='_blank'>The retarded air borne regiment?</a>
<a href='http://gamespot.com/gamespot/filters/products/screens/0,11105,914499,00.html?page=27' target='_blank'>hey...whats that on the ground?</a>
Looks like they just got buzzed off some snort ( check ground )
PONG
MULE
ZORK
XCOM
HL
None of these meet the standards of ungodly graphics, but try them out. You will become addicted to a few.
Xentor makes a lot of sense..
People are too hung up on graphics, gameplay is the most important issue.
/shrug It doesn't really matter.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Exactly. Doesn't really matter. Though I am sure many players with fast new machines would WISH that it was using a newer engine, but that doesn't mean we'll stoop to some idiotic turpentine & shite comparisson while having the audacity to claim we aren't trying to slight.
Looks promising if they can actually find a coder and get things going, the last time I checked, they have some nice looking gun models.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Heh, yeah. Throw up a bit of artwork and a spiffy website, and you've got people's attention. If NS took this long to complete, how long won't that project take? I'd be surprised if we see anything reaching NS's sublimity for a long, long time to come.
PONG
MULE
ZORK
XCOM
HL
None of these meet the standards of ungodly graphics, but try them out. You will become addicted to a few.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
XCOM IS TEH L33T!
I can't wait for UFO: Aftermath !
PLEASE PLEASE OH PLEASE EXPLAIN:
Why Valve released a 'high-res pack'.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I am sure nobody meant it doesnt matter entirely, but it plays second fiddle to good gameplay when push comes to shove. And good gfx lures in the unwashed masses. No one wants an ugly game if they've got a choice. Also to wringe more profit out of an old workhorse.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Why games always look better and better and offer the same gameplay and sell more then others?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
SELL more than others? Why wasn't HL the super seller of them? Which 3d-shooter has accomplished to outsell Half-Life so far? And because in a competitive market place, where superficiality is the selling point, they pretty darned sure want to have a GOOD looking game so attention deficited vid kidz 1,5 second attention span can be caught "OOOOOOOOOH SHINYYYYYY". And their pride. Artistic pride.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Why Half-Life won several awards for it's (at the time) ground-breaking graphics?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I wasn't aware that HL had won awards for gfx, but most likely because the industry likes patting each other's backs and awards are those pseudo events created for attracting attention to triteness.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Why *EVERY F-n game reviewer under the sun puts heavy weight on graphics?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Because they think it matters. Because they know that everyone else likes purdy graphics. It just doesn't change the fact that I'd prefer a good game with sucky graphics to a sucky game with gorgeous graphics any day. And nor would the reviewers. But there are so many games out there, and subjective criterias are hard to "review", which is all the stuff that we experience as gameplay, story, suspense, action. The sound and graphics are nice, objective things you can give a score.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I played Half-Life many times through and I thought the bots were frankly only sub-par (Even for the time). I rarely saw teamwork, and the most startling thing I ever saw was when the grunts ran from grenades. Hell, as a point of how dumb they are, sometimes the grunts would crouch right on top of your grenade and hold their head. Dumb dumb dumb. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Compared to the other bots of 1998?
That hi-res pack, does it do ANYTHING for half-life's mods or is it just the game itself that gets a small visual spicer upper?
Whereas UT2K3 needs a stupidly specced machine (i know, i have it... My bro has a GF4, a Pentium 1 gig, and 512mb of ram, and it still runs slow <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->), and broadband comes in useful (i would recommend it, coz i have a couple of mates who have UT2K3 on 56K's, and its ****).
If its good enough where it is, why change? it would just be a waste of time....
You may want to chill on the hostility, uranium.
I don't know what some of you in here are trying to achieve, but the blatant mocking and hatred needs to stop. I see a lot of people attempting to put game developers, in general, under a bad light here... and it's pretty disgusting. I may just be reading some of these wrong, but Christ...
Anyway, in response to the above quote, I think it's safe to say that most of the people who created NS are aiming to get a job in the industry in the near future. Having that much more people playing your game, or having it that well-known... is only going to be beneficial to getting you there. If you honestly believe that the team would approach it with that kind of attitude you portrayed above, you've already got the wrong mindset in place. Perhaps your comment could apply to some other mod development teams out there... I'm sure a lot of them are just out there for some short-lived attention, and will never take the hobby beyond that... but I don't think it's terribly difficult to see how professionaly this one is being handled. If that's not a sign of intent, I don't know what is.