Business Model
bERt0r
Join Date: 2005-03-23 Member: 46181Members
Join Date: 2005-03-23 Member: 46181Members
I was thinking about how you can bring the idea of this LAN-party experience revival together with the need to make money with your product. A big factor why mods were popular on LAN parties was because they were free and easy to copy to each pc.
From what I know of my LAN-parties is that the more effort you need to install a game on other PCs, the less likely that game is going to be played - some people dont want to bother with installing a new game and just keep playing CS/COD/whatever.
Therefor I think making Future Perfect free to play would work best. The problem is, how do you generate revenue?
I don't think cosmetic items like hats are a feasible way since each game you create on FP can look differently. I assume the creator of a game has the freedom to alter the player's avatars and I think it is possible to create games without any avatars at all (think RTS).
I don't really have a good solution for this, i just wanted to bring up the issue.
A few possible ways i could come up include:
-Hats (as mentioned above)
-FP is free, creating games is free, users have to pay for games (UWE takes a cut) -> defies the LAN-experience idea
-advertisments -> this never really worked out in games afaik
Just had another idea:
People have to buy the game if they want to host a game on their own but may join another server for free. I think this could actually work. This is the way Overkill Software handles DLC with their Payday franchise: Only people who buy a map can host it but everyone can join that game. This could work out well, Payday was one of the most successful indie games afaik.
From what I know of my LAN-parties is that the more effort you need to install a game on other PCs, the less likely that game is going to be played - some people dont want to bother with installing a new game and just keep playing CS/COD/whatever.
Therefor I think making Future Perfect free to play would work best. The problem is, how do you generate revenue?
I don't think cosmetic items like hats are a feasible way since each game you create on FP can look differently. I assume the creator of a game has the freedom to alter the player's avatars and I think it is possible to create games without any avatars at all (think RTS).
I don't really have a good solution for this, i just wanted to bring up the issue.
A few possible ways i could come up include:
-Hats (as mentioned above)
-FP is free, creating games is free, users have to pay for games (UWE takes a cut) -> defies the LAN-experience idea
-advertisments -> this never really worked out in games afaik
Just had another idea:
People have to buy the game if they want to host a game on their own but may join another server for free. I think this could actually work. This is the way Overkill Software handles DLC with their Payday franchise: Only people who buy a map can host it but everyone can join that game. This could work out well, Payday was one of the most successful indie games afaik.
Comments
If UWE wants to sell Future Perfect as a normal game, its success will primarily depend on the mods that are available from the get go. If the base engine does not sell, nobody will bother making new mods for it.
Maybe if there was a pre-game runaround thingy, like the readyroom.... but that would be very minimal kind of thing.
Badges though, badges could work.
What do you think about my "other" idea? I think this could work out.
You have to buy the game to create your own mod, then if you want to play it with your friends they can just download FP for free while you host the server. That way FP can spread like a wildfire.
IIRC this is similar to the "Spawn Version" of Starcraft 1 that helped it's spread on LAN events. This is free PR for the game, low distribution barrier for mods and no pay to win. People will buy the game since not being able to start up a game on your own is making you dependent on others.
As it seems (I just read another older official article) UWE is already planning to introduce hats. If it works out that is fine too.
I do feel there needs to be a lot of good quality 'official' content for the less mod interested playerbase, but as long as your plans for moddability and user creation tools all come together, I think this will be a great success.
D.D.: "Hey gurls I made my own mod, wanna check it out?"
D &
D.D.: "Well, you just have to buy this Future Perfect game platform and then you can download my mod"
D &
And now Dudey has to explain why his friends have to pay to play his mod. His first mod, which might not be that impressive and they could feel let down by their purchase.
If Dudina and Dudarella could join Dudey's game for free they may very likely help Dudey test and develop his mod. They might even check out some other mods that are hosted. Should they like a particular mod, they will buy the game sooner or later or they will only be able to play when they find an open slot when someone else hosts the mod they are looking for.
No matter how much you charge for Future Perfect, it creates the situation where you would have to sell your mod to your friends, something at least I do not like. This doesn't fit with my LAN-party nostalgia and I don't think this would work out. Good luck convincing a friend to buy Warcraft 3 to test your newly created, buggy, imbalanced tower defense.
It would also be possible to promote popular mods to premium mods which are only accesible for people who bought the game. Or go a step further and charge for the mod itself, depends on how much money UWE wants to make
Do not panic too much about the price. F2P in and of itself is no magic bullet for a successful game. Personally, I tend to avoid F2P like the plague..
Mods depend on word of mouth propagation and free availability. There are only a few mods that were successful enough for people to buy the game it is running on, Counter-Strike and DotA maybe you know more. Needless to say, even CS and DotA were buggy, unbalanced, ugly mods when they got released first and only became what they are today because of their popularity.
I don't panic about the price, in fact I think they could charge more than 10$. Since you complain about F2P i suppose you didn't read my proposed Business Model:
Only people who pay the 10$ can host a game of any mod and access the editor. People who don't pay can only join other people's games.
And it's incredibly popular.
It was only free at first because it used to be just a mod.
Became a paid game after becoming standalone.
There seems to be a misunderstanding: You compare gmod to Future Perfect itself, I compare it to a mod built on Future Perfect. In my train of thought, Future Perfect is the equivalent of the Source Engine. I'm don't know a lot about gmod and I never played it but I had the impression it is about building crazy stuff and interacting with it. I thought Future Perfect's aim was to play games you can easily make yourself. The editing is done alone, not together with other players. Moreover I had the impression that the plattform is designed for games with relativly small amounts of players per round/session/party whatever. Therefor my idea about requiring only the game host and everyone who wants to mod himself to buy the game.
The game would have to be ridiculously successful for that approach to make any money.
Setting $10 for everyone means that you don't need 60million people playing you game just to get $300,000 in income.
So If I want to play, crude mod, but no-one is currently playing the game, I have to buy the game, so I can play it myself. That is not Free To Play. That is Pay-to-Play, and what you are doing is deceiving customers by selling them a big fat lie..
However, the games played on LAN were huge economic successes because people who enjoyed the games on lan also wanted to play them at home. My suggestion of this pay to host business model takes a similar approach.
We are simply having a discussion and a rather polite one at that, especially compared to what a few other discussions on this forum have been like. (just a few)
I think reading F2P trigged an automatic defense mechanism in your brains because there are so many games that say they are F2P but are P2W (pay2win) in fact. This has happened on these forums before when someone suggested this for NS2 (something I dont agree with).
I'm not saying they should do this during the early access phase, in fact that would be detrimental I think. "Make a mod and show it to your friends" - I think this is what FP is all about.
The thing is, not everyone wants to make their own mods. I don't know if everyone you play games with also likes to make them, it's not the case for me at least. When me and my gaming pals get togehter - online or via LAN - we don't talk about modding, we play. It is already a problem for everyone to have the game we want to play: usually someone gets hyped over a game, suggests it to the others and if the hype doesn't hold everyone is sad - especially the one who suggested it. I fear this could get even worse with FP if I encourage my friends to buy it, test my newly created and not so impressive mod with them and they tell me "Your mod sucks what did I pay 10 bucks for?"
The price is not the issue here, it is the simple fact that you have to pay even one cent that creates a barrier which hurts new mods.
You may be an honest guy, but what you proposed in business terms would be very liable to get you in hot water. I don't know where you are from, or what your business experience is, but if you did what you are saying in the UK, you could be pulled up under the trades descriptions act for mis-selling a product.
I know you are not UWE, I am merely talking about your idea as if it was being implemented, after all, you suggested it for the purpose that it may be implemented right? You didn't just say it because you were bored and wanted to write something.
The thing is, Future Perfect is designed to be a game that all players mod while playing. So by that token, every player has to buy the game anyway. You know, in the middle of a game, you drop a jump pad, so you can get up the enemies walls, or you add a wall to block the other teams route.
While it can be modded in a traditional sense, it is designed to be modded as you play. So in that case, we will have some people who have bought the game, dropping jump pads, spawning extra guns for themselves, making new rooms etc, while the remainder of the players can't do that, and try and start a vote-kick to get rid of the 'hackers'.
Of course, the hackers are the only one's who have bought the game, so, according to your idea, they are also the only ones who can run a server, so the moment they get kicked by the free players, their server shuts down and they can't play.
I have read every word of what you have written, and I fully understand what you are saying, however, you do not seem to have thought your proposals through to the end.
Rather than accusing us of putting up a defence mechanism against F2P, why don't you stop putting up a defence mechanism against us because we don't agree with your idea? We are not attacking, we are explaining.
Of course, if you would like us to attack you, it could be arranged
I doubt the vision of FP is to mod the game while you are playing. Because your jumppad remark is quite ridiculous and borderline cheating. Yeah, i mod myself invulnerable, that will be so fun for everyone!
How can you say you understood everything when you only realised in your last post what I was talking about. Before, you thought I was asking UWE to give away the game for free for anyone who doesn't want to mod. I clearly stated in the OP "People have to buy the game if they want to host a game on their own but may join another server for free." I even made it bold. Maybe I didn't express myself clearly enough - I'm not a native speaker - but you didn't ask me to clarify my statement. First, you said UWE won't make any money that way, then you said it is deceiving customers.
From Future Perfect Update 2 News:
I was taking your suggestion and showing why it wouldn't work, I gradually added more and more to make you realise how many issues there were with your post. I didn't expect you to absolutely blindly refuse to acknowledge the fact that your idea has many pitfalls.
All my comments are stackable. I have not changed any opinions or points, merely elaborated on them. To make it clearer to you why this does not work. I will summarise my points...
UWE won't make any money from your method of sale
UWE would very likely be in trouble under the Trades Descriptions act in the UK for mis-selling a product.
This is not NS2, or any other full game, it is a framework which enables all sorts of crazy things to be done by players, and ultimately makes every player a modder.
You say only modders and server hosts should buy the game, yet you don't realise this game is designed to be modded and changed while being played. Meaning EVERYONE is a modder of the game.
If you haven't already done so, fire up FP and start playing then press F5. There is the editor, smack bang in the middle of the game. Sure your avatar is unprotected, but that's the price you pay to change the level during gameplay.
I am not going to comment anymore on this subject. I am getting tired of giving you a million different reasons and angles as to why your idea cannot and will not work with FP and it's goals. You still think this is personal against you, or something specific against F2P. It is neither, it is a simple showing you how unworkable the idea is.
I have now spent as much energy as I care to give on the topic. If you do not wish to learn from the advice and experience of others, then fine, that is your choice.
If every player can modify the current game at any time, FP is just going to be another garrys mod.
The pitfalls you describe are only in your head:
How do you know UWE wont make any money from this? I even gave you an example of a very successful indie company that uses precisly this business model for their DLCs.
UWE is not an UK company. Even if the law would apply to UWE, who says they have to mislable the game so they get in trouble? This argument is so fake.
I think we have a different understanding about what FP can be. Yes, everyone can be a modder but I think if people create a good mod, others should enjoy it too without needing to know how to mod themself.
It isn't going anywhere.