Female character.
Sir_zino
England Join Date: 2014-10-09 Member: 198901Members, Reinforced - Supporter
England Join Date: 2014-10-09 Member: 198901Members, Reinforced - Supporter
So i was looking through the sketchfab page an there was aload of new models (warper,Exosuit,Red Piranha Etc.)
And then i saw this. https://sketchfab.com/models/556c7b30b2dd49ffa2bade11a9322333
I was more excited about the new creature models but i know a lot of people want to be a woman so here's the (unfinished) model.
And then i saw this. https://sketchfab.com/models/556c7b30b2dd49ffa2bade11a9322333
I was more excited about the new creature models but i know a lot of people want to be a woman so here's the (unfinished) model.
Comments
Aww, but I like ponytails. Not to mention the current male character already has a much weirder/impractical-er hairstyle with a half-mohawk thingy.
Name just one reason to exclude women from this game.
Its a good bit of extra work for little to no gain.
The character is already modeled as a male for whatever reason.
There's absolutely no gameplay value added or lost due to the protaganist's sexual makeup.
It is literally a solely asthetic aspect that currently isn't even incorporated into the game and you can't even see except in shadow/pseudo-buggy looking around in the Cyclops sub. I wouldn't even know I was human shaped and not a shark with arms if not for that!
Basically what candledicks said, what a name, but anyways yes: he summed it up.
I'm sure you also decided to not read the next phrase in my sentence otherwise you wouldn't have come across in such a rude way-- and actually realized I am more or less in favor of it. If you didn't realize that I was in favor of it, then there you go, I said it plain and simple
I was making an opinion heard and it is important for people to realize that there could actually be a problem with resources or time that are preventing the devs from making a female character, and they have stated they would like to as well. Lastly, I'm pretty sure we already have a thread on this exact topic anyways but maybe I'm wrong
Maybe the SN reflection code will get better at some point...
https://sketchfab.com/models/556c7b30b2dd49ffa2bade11a9322333
Im with Autochton on this. Seem's to me like adding a female character model wouldn't be a bad thing. The devs wouldnt spend time on it if the player would never see it. Maybe this means there will be situations in which we will see our character in the 3rd person, or they are seriously considering considering multiplayer in the future.
Just a touch of customization is always a good thing. Maybe some folks would prefer to play as a female character. I'm sure there are plenty of chicks who like to play this game, or at least dudes who like to play as female characters.
The modelers are already making a lot of assets for the game. What's one more. At least if the make the player models the same size they can use the same animations as the male model.
As for the gain? Well let's see. The new (female-headed) Thor comic is far outselling the previous (male-headed) one, and other comics are showing that pattern too, as are other media including games. A study showed that while male gamers were widely not finding the gender of the playable character important, female gamers overwhelmingly found their own representation to be of great importance, and consistently favor games that have representation of women. Female gamers are also the fastest growing of the two demographics. So what gain there is to be had? It's written with a dollar sign and numbers.
So basically, your whole reasoning is not only wrong, but you should probably feel bad about it.
Anyway cool on the devs for adding this and it's coming along really well!
Remember everyone, just because something seems some particular way, does not mean it is. This is a forum on a game currently undergoing active modeling and coding processes. Consider that when people voice a objection to something's inclusion, then read again. My opinion is I, despite really wanting to have model customization, want a female rig to come near the end of development when we can start looking at Co-op again. It is a rather big thing once other people start to be able to see you, and people in games prefer, largely from my experience, if your friends did not all look like the Star Wars Clone Army. A level of body customization and gender customization (kill the female model's hair! Ponytails are bad in water. How about long hair? or Shoulder length? And maybe work on the thin face? Sorry devs, just a aesthetic critic time to time, all in good humor) would provide a serious additive to the game, because other players you play with can and will be common sights, and lack the fact that those alien fish in the water, who would be almost indistinct to a foreign human eye, will all look the same, while that same human eye would note the differences on a human's face, a known human especially, very readily. The point is, you will be looking for whatever variation you can on a fellow survivor, and making people feel and appear unique from others is a big part of that immersion.
What you outlined with the animations would make a POOR "female" character because the sounds of a male would be uttered through your "female" character's teeth. Good luck with that lol
As for Formous, I'm glad and sorry that you slightly agree / but more or less disagree-- I guess I should mention that when I said "little gain" I really meant that it would take a significant (in relative time to how long updates take) amount of time to make a proper female character: during a time when I think mechanics should be focused on, and not aesthetics (because, frankly, male or female, that's what this thread is about)
Now, I'm happy that the model exists, but I would recommend / hope that the devs keep the female for a time when they can A) FOCUS PROPERLY on it and not give 50%, and B ) actually make sure that every other mechanic is completed and well made (this doesn't mean content-- I mean game mechanics. Adding extra tools or vehicles while making the female character is fine with me and I think it is a good idea to make it alongside those other pieces of content, however, when the game is so devoid of advanced mechanics, that is what the devs should focus on, and practically nothing else IMO)
I realize I"m rather privileged in quite a few ways as a male in general, but in gaming terms in a first person game, I wouldn't care if I was playing as a boy or a girl-- I can't find evidence that I'm really a male or female that would fully engage me either way-- unless it was third person. (If you really play the female character then immediately check in-game Subnautica that your character is indeed female, by looking at her chest, then, well, I'm not sure what to say... There shouldn't be a NEED to "prove" that the character is or is not what it says it is)
If Subnautica's main (first) character made was a woman, I'd actually be happy, depending of course on a lot of other things that have nothing to do with sex/ gender issues-- it would make people happy and is, unfortunately, novelty in our world of gaming
An opinion is always worthy of respect. I respect your opinion in fact, in spite of how wrong I think you are and how insulted I am that you are calling me a sexist. I will re iterate, "I don't see how saying making a female character is a good bit of extra work is sexist?".
Maybe making a female character is not a ton of work like you say, but it certainly is for less gain than focusing on progressing the game forward towards say, being content complete. For example, a female character has ZERO impact on me, thus no gain; Perhaps it actually does make the game totally awesome for a woman out there, then its for tons of gain, and question then becomes "how many women will it make the game totally awesome for?" I'm willing to bet that it's a comparatively small number. Oh, and again "I should feel bad." Just LOL
Now, all this said, if you're even reading this still Autochton, them including a female Player Character is a good thing! I am merely more concerned with the allocation of development resources, as Formous says (she actually has a metric ton of good points), than keeping them darn wimmenz out of muh vidya gaems. Though with the way you seem to argue, I bet I'm still a disgusting sexist pig that should have my tongue cut out for having an opinion that does not fall directly in line with yours, aren't I?
Now, as for the actual argumentation here, I'm seeing a bunch of you agree that there's a lot of gain to be had. I'd say that's probably the least disputable point mentioned here so far. So we can, I think, call that one done.
@Seldkam You mention the sounds. Just how many sounds are there even in game at this point? I suspect recording a single pain grunt (and please make it a pain grunt, not an orgasm one - the distinction is apparently hard for some people) is not exactly an overwhelming task. So far, no part of this task has actually been hard, or time consuming.
As for making things into a 'sex issue' (interesting term - usually it gets called 'sexism' instead?) I call it like I see it. Making the risibly false statement that there's no gain to be had here has to come from somewhere, and given that the people making the statement were male, a normal, ordinary default reason is sexism. We grow up suffused in it, and unless we make a concerted effort to escape, it dominates our lives. Hence, largely everything involving gender differences ends up involving sexism. It's everywhere.
@candledicks Not all opinions are worthy of respect - unless you think e.g. the opinion that people of color are lesser than white people and should be subservient to them, is worthy of respect too. I assume you don't - most reasonable people don't. Your 'concern' about resource allocation is... misplaced, at best, and may well come from an unexamined root you won't like when you do look. I have presented reasons why it would not be a waste of time - why it would be hugely beneficial, in fact. You have not managed to argue against them.
@Formous The fact remains that 'it's too much work' wasn't enough of an excuse for Ubisoft, and it's not a sufficient excuse for anyone else, either. Kerbal Space Program have finally gotten around to sticking a pink bow on the head of a kerbal and adding female names to its lineup for their 1.0 release, apparently that was too much work to do at any prior point as well. It's a sop, a cop-out, and I for one am tired of it. So, by the way, is my wife.
Back on topic, Why is my 'concern' about resource allocation misplaced, and what do you feel is the unexamined root of my 'concern'? I don't think anyone has called the creation of a female PC a waste of time, just that there are other more pressing issues at this time in the dev cycle. Like in your KSP analogy, it was not that it was too much work or a waste of time, there were simply other things to be done, and Squad is not known for quick development. At all. I do have a question for you and your wife though, is diversity for the sake of diversity actually good diversity?
To those suggesting it shouldn't be priority (particularly candledicks) I'm really trying to convince myself that there're no sexist attitudes at the heart of your comments, but it really is difficult.
The thing is, it's not that much work, and the devs have done loads that falls outside the "game mechanics" that many on this board are insisting should come first. Looking at the trello, transfuser animations for the upcoming build are already done, and they're working on a reaper kill animation (and I can't imagine anyone saying that should wait until near the end of development, can you?). Someone even suggested, to quote:
"Can we get the arms continuing to flail and swim back, until he gets pulled into the mouth? Like he's swimming and swimming, and then when the pull happens, his arms are dragged out of frame by the force of the pull."
That sounds really cool, and I hope it's in the next build, but it's probably more work than implementing a female PC (I'm no expert, so correct me if I'm wrong). Presumably you'd all be equally vocal about how that can and should wait.
I mean, no one here even said "Do not add this in", or anything I'd call opposition to the model, they just expressed doubts as to if it'd really matter.
If the game did decide to go down the multiplayer route and add character customization that would be nice and having a gender selection then would be of more priority, but right now when we don't even know if multiplayer will be a thing, I think there are bigger priorities that should be worked on. Like gameplay.
As for LeahJ, I'm sorry that we are making you uncomfortable, and I mean that sincerely-- however, in general, judging someone over the internet... isn't ever really worth it :P it's best to take our comments at face value and not trying to dig into "our real motive"
I hope I didn't make that worse lol, but I understand a version of what you're feeling about seeing things on the internet about a group you belong to, so I'm not just wagging my finger (or at least I"m trying not to)
As for Auto, I don't think we are going to be able to come to an agreement of any description so I suggest we agree to disagree and go our own ways for now
@candledicks The only people who don't value diversity are those who are always catered to: White, straight, non-disabled, cisgender men. Everyone else usually finds that they're not represented anywhere near enough in, well, anything. This increases the further you diverge from that 'standard'. So yes. All diversity is good diversity. No two ways about that.
@Seldkam The internet is the real world too, it's not some magical dreamworld. If something on the internet leaves you uncomfortable, that's actually a real thing, not just something you can write off.
I think everyone holds mild prejudices of one kind or another, often without realising it. It's probably not their fault, but I'd suggest that if someone calls you out on being prejudiced it's always worth taking a look in the mirror, they might have a point, even if you had the best of intentions.
Also inclined to agree that everyone should walk away from this thread, the female PC will happen whenever the devs intend it to happen.
I find it kinda ironic how you compare me to a politician, yet you're the one using loaded words like "propagate" lol. Anyways, I said that right now you'd barely see your character model, and occasionally hear them. Bear in mind this is a first person game, and there are plenty of FPS that had very limited character models, usually only focusing on the arms and hands. Unless the male and female had different gameplay options (Such as the female being able to swim faster and hold her breath longer, at the cost of reduced health, being an option for more experienced players. That would be really cool.) than the option is purely aesthetic. And a barely aesthetic option that the player barely sees is not of that much gain. Again, it's not a bad thing, but when there's more things to work on right now it can wait.
You're implying I said a fancy Reaper kill animation was of more gain, which I never did. Right now outside of a few slight behavior tweaks the Reaper is pretty much finished. It's a giant fish that can instantly kill the player. It has a job and does it. All it really needs added is to set the camera to third person to show the reaper quickly eating the player to relay the information of what killed it. Outside of that, yeah it's fine, and doesn't really need a more enhanced and fancy one like described earlier, not now.
This game is in a pre-alpha stage. Right now aesthetic options shouldn't be the priority. What should be is working on the gameplay, design, objectives, all the internal stuff. I don't want this game to fall into the same trap Minecraft did where they ended up being so focused on small things during the development stages they ended up completely forgetting to work on actual game design, and ended up releasing an absolute unfocused mess as a "Finished Product".
@Autchton So slapping the token black guy in a game is a good thing? That means more black people like it and buy it, no?
As for having a female model/avatar/character in game I support it and would like to see it happen, especially if the game ever gets multiplayer/co op
We should all be able to agree that girls that play real video games are awesome. If playing as a female character would make some people feel more comfortable I don't see what the big deal is. It probably wouldn't take more than a day's worth of work to finish the in progress model and rig the existing character animations to it. Regardless this seems unlikely to get added until the end of the development cycle or if they implement co-op.
No need for throwing insults around, some people really need to keep things in perspective.
Please take a moment to enjoy this brief video and reflect.