I think this game needs a new law. Like Moore's law.
Summit's Law. Any map after a new update will look 20% more like Summit.
And yet people still complain about non summit-like designs.
Looks like my game doesn't want to download Temple.. I subscribed to it on the workshop. Then in the mods section ingame it says subscribed and "downloading ... (0%)" and nothing happens. It doesn't appear in the maps rotation when launching a local listen server.
NVM, another download was slowing the fuck down my temple DL... I'm good now
I think this game needs a new law. Like Moore's law.
Summit's Law. Any map after a new update will look 20% more like Summit.
And yet people still complain about non summit-like designs.
Looks like my game doesn't want to download Temple.. I subscribed to it on the workshop. Then in the mods section ingame it says subscribed and "downloading ... (0%)" and nothing happens. It doesn't appear in the maps rotation when launching a local listen server.
NVM, another download was slowing the fuck down my temple DL... I'm good now
EDIT : minimap's fucked up in waterfall
Whoops. Fixed. Forgot to switch part of the texture back. Since overview seems to ignore custom textures currently, I have to use a similar texture for the ground in waterfall, build the overview, then swap out the materials in the "output" version of the map.
Was definitely trying to make the map more compact like Tram. Made preventing cheesey arc spots kinda tricky though. (emphasis on "cheesey". I'm not out to make arcs obsolete, here, just don't want them to be OP.)
Colony - RT so, so easy for an alien to bite, completely covered w/ ambush spots for buddies
Waterfall - Runtime from colony to LOS of RT seems short. Also having the path above death drops means there are basically infinite places for aliens to hide and potentially ambush marines from a couple of feet away. Run time from great hall also very short.
Worship - Massive vertical difference between bottom and top of the room and spacious pillars give aliens lots of room to hide in a huge room. Ramps to get to good position to flush aliens out of cover leave you exposed to the rooms exit and hiding spots behind the TP. Overall didnt mind how it played but this is something to think about.
Elevator - skulks can hide all around the elevator, pretty OP. Also death drop OP
Base - Confusing name. Vent to ventilation makes it skylights-esq in how it plays (aliens can go there right at the very start and just camp the vent), kind of means marines NEED ventilation to cover that RT from constant harassment.
Tomb - large slope greatly favours whoever is holding this tech point. Huge verticality like this is quite common throughout the map and I dont think is very fun except in a few places.
Ventilation - fun room, would prefer slightly easier platforming over death drops for marines.. aliens can hide underneath everywhere and thats generally considered notgood
Room between ventilation - great hall - cool room!!! Vent hole on north side in the floor too small to fit anything though
Good to see the return of this map, get detailing some areas already!
Connection Suggestion - connection between mushroom-great hall route and top of throne room/ mausoleum
Colony - RT so, so easy for an alien to bite, completely covered w/ ambush spots for buddies
Waterfall - Runtime from colony to LOS of RT seems short. Also having the path above death drops means there are basically infinite places for aliens to hide and potentially ambush marines from a couple of feet away. Run time from great hall also very short.
Worship - Massive vertical difference between bottom and top of the room and spacious pillars give aliens lots of room to hide in a huge room. Ramps to get to good position to flush aliens out of cover leave you exposed to the rooms exit and hiding spots behind the TP. Overall didnt mind how it played but this is something to think about.
Elevator - skulks can hide all around the elevator, pretty OP. Also death drop OP
Base - Confusing name. Vent to ventilation makes it skylights-esq in how it plays (aliens can go there right at the very start and just camp the vent), kind of means marines NEED ventilation to cover that RT from constant harassment.
Tomb - large slope greatly favours whoever is holding this tech point. Huge verticality like this is quite common throughout the map and I dont think is very fun except in a few places.
Ventilation - fun room, would prefer slightly easier platforming over death drops for marines.. aliens can hide underneath everywhere and thats generally considered notgood
Room between ventilation - great hall - cool room!!! Vent hole on north side in the floor too small to fit anything though
Good to see the return of this map, get detailing some areas already!
Connection Suggestion - connection between mushroom-great hall route and top of throne room/ mausoleum
That is just the way how Sparks tells you that it loves you and that you should stick around for a few more hours and not minutes to do the same stuff as in other editors :P
That is just the way how Sparks tells you that it loves you and that you should stick around for a few more hours and not minutes to do the same stuff as in other editors :P
Bah! Not me! I've just been exporting pieces to Blender, working on them, and exporting back to spark. Cuts down the work by a factor of at least 10, assuming what you've done is even possible in Spark (eg booleans, tricky odd-angled miter joins, etc.)
BeigeAlertTexasJoin Date: 2013-08-08Member: 186657Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Pistachionauts
edited August 2015
Alright guys, finally putting out a new version of this. This isn't the big update I've been wanting, but it's more of a maintenance build, fixing some of the bigger problems people have been having. Overview looks more or less the same.
Changelog:
v0.7.1
-Fixed an occlusion bug in Tomb
-Removed the death-pit from Elevator. Replaced with some debris.
-Path in waterfall extends to the death trigger -- in other words, aliens can no longer get underneath the path.
-Renamed "base" to "control"... sorry 'bout that!
-Added a ladder to ventilation
-Added a control panel to the middle of ventilation, to add cover, and provide a vent entrance to the room for aliens.
ZavaroTucson, ArizonaJoin Date: 2005-02-14Member: 41174Members, Super Administrators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver, Subnautica Playtester, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
A couple things I noticed:
Aerodome has a lot of annoying junk on the floor that you can get stuck on.
That phase gate in the ship in Aerodome is really, really powerful.
The ramp in Garage (I think) was really irritating as there wasn't a way to bypass it's long line of sight as a skulk.
Aerodome has a lot of annoying junk on the floor that you can get stuck on.
That phase gate in the ship in Aerodome is really, really powerful.
The ramp in Garage (I think) was really irritating as there wasn't a way to bypass it's long line of sight as a skulk.
Haha, yes, I got quite the ass-kicking on TGNS a few hours later. In the hands of some crack shots on marines, there are some really brutal areas on this map, eg ventilation, the vent -> throne ramp, and the garage ramp, like you said. I'm thinking I should just scatter some crates around as a temporary measure, as I don't have a ton of time to work on the map (YET! ).
BeigeAlertTexasJoin Date: 2013-08-08Member: 186657Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Pistachionauts
edited September 2015
Slightly new version! Added some much-needed cover to some areas in the form of some silly cardboard boxes I made. Also changed out the vehicle in garage with the derelict APV. Doesn't look any different, but now it's not having to download the model anymore, as it's no longer a "custom" model.
Changelog:
v0.7.2
-Changed the APV in garage to use the derelict model, rather than a custom version of the same prop (mod size reduced).
-Added temporary view blockers to some areas to make them more alien friendly.
-Added collision geometry to some of the debris on the ground in aerodome, so it shouldn't be quite as annoying.
BeigeAlertTexasJoin Date: 2013-08-08Member: 186657Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Pistachionauts
A few tweaks made. More cover in Throne Room now.
Changelog:
v0.7.3
-Added some scaffolding and boxes to Throne Room to give aliens more cover.
-Added a vent from Mausoleum to Tomb.
-Added some debris to block one side of the Tomb <-> Mausoleum route. Should be less of a shooting gallery now.
IxianDenmarkJoin Date: 2014-03-16Member: 194783Members, Squad Five Blue
The times I have played the map, it has mostly revolved around mushroom - the tight toom and the nature of the battles made it feel very cramped and not very fun. Once the marines are inside it, the bottle necks makes it extreemely difficult to retake, not to mention the lack of cover. I would love to see what would happen if the room became larger and the walkway up and down became wider with more cover. Have you also considered forced spawns?
The times I have played the map, it has mostly revolved around mushroom - the tight toom and the nature of the battles made it feel very cramped and not very fun. Once the marines are inside it, the bottle necks makes it extreemely difficult to retake, not to mention the lack of cover. I would love to see what would happen if the room became larger and the walkway up and down became wider with more cover. Have you also considered forced spawns?
Yea mushroom's a perpetual thorn in my side... need to figure out what to do about that room. It's tricky because I have to constantly keep arc ranges in mind with such a condensed map layout.
As far as forced spawns are concerned. I've got it setup to where there shouldn't be any close spawns on the map (eg colony can't spawn next to worship, throne can't spawn next to aerodome, etc.)
My opinion is still:
Find a way to lower the ceiling in many rooms. There are too many rooms like that.
As an example : Mineshaft/cave <- we know it's a pain when the marines know what they are doing.
Break some rocks, turn something upside down... whatever that can lower the ceiling.
I wished when the game was out that we could do the same kind of hive with big heights like NS1. It would have been artistically speaking interesting. But I'm afraid we can't do that and won't be able to.
IxianDenmarkJoin Date: 2014-03-16Member: 194783Members, Squad Five Blue
Now that I think about it, i recall throne room to be longer than the rendering distance of structures and players. And I recall getting a shell kill that way, despite it being shaded - it glimsed when i rendered allowing me to get information i should not have had.
My biggest problem with Docking is Bar and caffeteria. Its too far away from anything meaning 2 things: Rotations are impossible - you can't rotate to and fro it, without going an insane amount of distance. Which in turn means that the combat in caffeteria and bar means so much more, as there is noone to cover up for your lost engagement, other than respawners. In turn, this moves the focus away from teamwork, and focus to player skill and execution. This is why you often see a PG between Terminal and Caffeteria, despite the huge cost of the PG. That is, if you spawn terminal. On caffeteria spawn, bar still poses somewhat of the same problem, although a lesser one, as we are only talking about 1 RT now.
Now, i feel like its possible the same scenario might be happening in aerodome/garage and throne/mauseleum. Its very far away from anything, and any combat is goiing to be too important, as there is noone to cover for you other than respawners.
On a map like tram, where the rotatioons are very easy except for mezza/server/platform, lost fights can be reacted upon with rotations. The only reason I believe that mezza/server/platform actually works is because of it being 3 RTs, rather than 2. More on the line, -> you can have more people fighting for it. And as you no doubt know - many of the games are lost and won in mezzanine on tram, with either side spawning warehouse.
On the subject of Mushroom, i get the vibe of Jambi/Oxygenation from it. 1 RT spot between 2 tech spots, with no viable cysting around it. Where as the aliens on Jambi easily can find reason to fight for gravity, and thus preemptively protect Oxygenation, I can't really find any reason for the aliens to fight for Great Hall. It bottlenecks to everywhere, and doesn't really give you any additional backstabbing power over the lanes, as control over f.ex. crossroads on Summit (which argueable gives you too much backstabbing power).
Elevator is for me just bottleneck upon bottle neck upon bottle neck - I dont really have a problem with this, but it might be missing out on its potential. Whereas I dont like cheesy PGs, ballcourt on Docking does its job well [hint hint].
I really like the design of the area between mushroom and great hall, but due to great hall being uninteressting, it just sits there - i would love to fight there more often.
I must admit I dont understand the Throne/Tomb vent. It denies the marines every oppotunity to siege from mausoleum, which again puts pressure on mushroom. You simply cannot hold the line, with the vent being there - which might have been the reason for it in the first place?
Im sorry that I dont really have any ansvers to these problems, but I hope that these points might spark an idea
Comments
Looks like my game doesn't want to download Temple.. I subscribed to it on the workshop. Then in the mods section ingame it says subscribed and "downloading ... (0%)" and nothing happens. It doesn't appear in the maps rotation when launching a local listen server.
NVM, another download was slowing the fuck down my temple DL... I'm good now
EDIT : minimap's fucked up in waterfall
Whoops. Fixed. Forgot to switch part of the texture back. Since overview seems to ignore custom textures currently, I have to use a similar texture for the ground in waterfall, build the overview, then swap out the materials in the "output" version of the map.
Was definitely trying to make the map more compact like Tram. Made preventing cheesey arc spots kinda tricky though. (emphasis on "cheesey". I'm not out to make arcs obsolete, here, just don't want them to be OP.)
Waterfall - Runtime from colony to LOS of RT seems short. Also having the path above death drops means there are basically infinite places for aliens to hide and potentially ambush marines from a couple of feet away. Run time from great hall also very short.
Worship - Massive vertical difference between bottom and top of the room and spacious pillars give aliens lots of room to hide in a huge room. Ramps to get to good position to flush aliens out of cover leave you exposed to the rooms exit and hiding spots behind the TP. Overall didnt mind how it played but this is something to think about.
Elevator - skulks can hide all around the elevator, pretty OP. Also death drop OP
Base - Confusing name. Vent to ventilation makes it skylights-esq in how it plays (aliens can go there right at the very start and just camp the vent), kind of means marines NEED ventilation to cover that RT from constant harassment.
Tomb - large slope greatly favours whoever is holding this tech point. Huge verticality like this is quite common throughout the map and I dont think is very fun except in a few places.
Ventilation - fun room, would prefer slightly easier platforming over death drops for marines.. aliens can hide underneath everywhere and thats generally considered notgood
Room between ventilation - great hall - cool room!!! Vent hole on north side in the floor too small to fit anything though
Good to see the return of this map, get detailing some areas already!
Connection Suggestion - connection between mushroom-great hall route and top of throne room/ mausoleum
Yup yup and more yup.
Aren't invalid triangles fun? But seriously, working hard to hopefully get a new version put out by tomorrow.
Seems that some people have fun while mapping.
Bah! Not me! I've just been exporting pieces to Blender, working on them, and exporting back to spark. Cuts down the work by a factor of at least 10, assuming what you've done is even possible in Spark (eg booleans, tricky odd-angled miter joins, etc.)
PS - No new build of Caged today yet either.
PPS - I'm fired.
Changelog:
-Fixed an occlusion bug in Tomb
-Removed the death-pit from Elevator. Replaced with some debris.
-Path in waterfall extends to the death trigger -- in other words, aliens can no longer get underneath the path.
-Renamed "base" to "control"... sorry 'bout that!
-Added a ladder to ventilation
-Added a control panel to the middle of ventilation, to add cover, and provide a vent entrance to the room for aliens.
Best fix in any map ever!
Aerodome has a lot of annoying junk on the floor that you can get stuck on.
That phase gate in the ship in Aerodome is really, really powerful.
The ramp in Garage (I think) was really irritating as there wasn't a way to bypass it's long line of sight as a skulk.
Haha, yes, I got quite the ass-kicking on TGNS a few hours later. In the hands of some crack shots on marines, there are some really brutal areas on this map, eg ventilation, the vent -> throne ramp, and the garage ramp, like you said. I'm thinking I should just scatter some crates around as a temporary measure, as I don't have a ton of time to work on the map (YET!
Changelog:
-Changed the APV in garage to use the derelict model, rather than a custom version of the same prop (mod size reduced).
-Added temporary view blockers to some areas to make them more alien friendly.
-Added collision geometry to some of the debris on the ground in aerodome, so it shouldn't be quite as annoying.
The blockers:
Changelog:
-Added some scaffolding and boxes to Throne Room to give aliens more cover.
-Added a vent from Mausoleum to Tomb.
-Added some debris to block one side of the Tomb <-> Mausoleum route. Should be less of a shooting gallery now.
Yea mushroom's a perpetual thorn in my side... need to figure out what to do about that room. It's tricky because I have to constantly keep arc ranges in mind with such a condensed map layout.
As far as forced spawns are concerned. I've got it setup to where there shouldn't be any close spawns on the map (eg colony can't spawn next to worship, throne can't spawn next to aerodome, etc.)
Find a way to lower the ceiling in many rooms. There are too many rooms like that.
As an example : Mineshaft/cave <- we know it's a pain when the marines know what they are doing.
Break some rocks, turn something upside down... whatever that can lower the ceiling.
I wished when the game was out that we could do the same kind of hive with big heights like NS1. It would have been artistically speaking interesting. But I'm afraid we can't do that and won't be able to.
My biggest problem with Docking is Bar and caffeteria. Its too far away from anything meaning 2 things: Rotations are impossible - you can't rotate to and fro it, without going an insane amount of distance. Which in turn means that the combat in caffeteria and bar means so much more, as there is noone to cover up for your lost engagement, other than respawners. In turn, this moves the focus away from teamwork, and focus to player skill and execution. This is why you often see a PG between Terminal and Caffeteria, despite the huge cost of the PG. That is, if you spawn terminal. On caffeteria spawn, bar still poses somewhat of the same problem, although a lesser one, as we are only talking about 1 RT now.
Now, i feel like its possible the same scenario might be happening in aerodome/garage and throne/mauseleum. Its very far away from anything, and any combat is goiing to be too important, as there is noone to cover for you other than respawners.
On a map like tram, where the rotatioons are very easy except for mezza/server/platform, lost fights can be reacted upon with rotations. The only reason I believe that mezza/server/platform actually works is because of it being 3 RTs, rather than 2. More on the line, -> you can have more people fighting for it. And as you no doubt know - many of the games are lost and won in mezzanine on tram, with either side spawning warehouse.
On the subject of Mushroom, i get the vibe of Jambi/Oxygenation from it. 1 RT spot between 2 tech spots, with no viable cysting around it. Where as the aliens on Jambi easily can find reason to fight for gravity, and thus preemptively protect Oxygenation, I can't really find any reason for the aliens to fight for Great Hall. It bottlenecks to everywhere, and doesn't really give you any additional backstabbing power over the lanes, as control over f.ex. crossroads on Summit (which argueable gives you too much backstabbing power).
Elevator is for me just bottleneck upon bottle neck upon bottle neck - I dont really have a problem with this, but it might be missing out on its potential. Whereas I dont like cheesy PGs, ballcourt on Docking does its job well [hint hint].
I really like the design of the area between mushroom and great hall, but due to great hall being uninteressting, it just sits there - i would love to fight there more often.
I must admit I dont understand the Throne/Tomb vent. It denies the marines every oppotunity to siege from mausoleum, which again puts pressure on mushroom. You simply cannot hold the line, with the vent being there - which might have been the reason for it in the first place?
Im sorry that I dont really have any ansvers to these problems, but I hope that these points might spark an idea