not sandbox,nor building,nor a survival game
Deepo
lisbon portugal Join Date: 2014-12-20 Member: 200150Members
lisbon portugal Join Date: 2014-12-20 Member: 200150Members
i feel that subnautica strayed far from its innitial ideas.
the game designer charly cleveland once said :
"We're not making a sandbox game, nor a building game, nor a survival game, although at times we thought we were," he says.
"We're building a game where you feel like a scientist who has crash-landed on an aquatic alien world and is learning how it (and its strange inhabitants) work.
It's a game of exploration, discovery and theme."
thats why i bought this game in the first place. but it is now a survival-building game and the science part is reduced to automatic analyzers and bizarre headscratchers like cubic salt deposits in the water and such.
i still love the game for what it is - it´s fun but i´m kindof sad that Charly Clevelands ideas seem to be abandoned. hopefully i´m wrong. we will see
i think this could be a much better discussion than weapons yes or no. in the game charly cleveland envisioned it wouldnt be a big issue i think.
and that could have been a good basis for the story too.
make the player feel like a tiny scientist in an huge alien ocean. give him relatively simple tools to observe and study and make the alien ocean the main-character and make the player understand that he just serves science and discovery in front of a much bigger picture.
but it has been all designed to be a survival-building game with exploration like so many others so maybe its too late for that ...
Comments
Only time will tell if the final version of the game stays as it is currently or hews closer to that single quote. But the thing is, the survival part, the base building part, the basic exploration. Those are the easy things to do, so it does make sense that they'd be implemented first. They're also the bedrock on which the science and discovery and story has to rest on, so it also makes sense they'd be implemented first. We've seen inklings of a story being worked on and there's mention of using the pad to provide lore and research messages.
So, I don't say your comments should be dismissed or that you're wrong to feel this way. All I do say is be patient and just keep watching where the game goes. I'm not seeing anything that's convinced me the dev's have abandoned the game's initial core themes just to churn out a basic crafting/survival game that happens to be set in an alien ocean. What I am seeing is a software development team that's checking off the tick marks in their goal sheet that are easiest to implement and offer concrete results now, visible to the players and the developers themselves.
and to be honest salt does crystalize in "squarish" crystals under the right circumstances
and i´m not making this up - it was the game-designer himself that said it.
it seems to be of little interest on this forum. i posted the same on steam and there are some more people that agree with me.
there are others that want more of Charly Clevelands vision and less survival and building - i´m surprised about the reaction here honestly.
i´m not attacking the game- i love this game even like its heading now. but i bought this because of Mr. Clevelands words. i read that and went right away to buy it on steam. and now i´m waiting for Subnautica to live up to his vision.
hope it happens !
But who knows?!
"We're building a game where you feel like a scientist who has crash-landed on an aquatic alien world and is learning how it (and its strange inhabitants) work.
It's a game of exploration, discovery and theme." <- Charlie's cited quote
"make the player feel like a tiny scientist in an huge alien ocean. give him relatively simple tools to observe and study and make the alien ocean the main-character and make the player understand that he just serves science and discovery in front of a much bigger picture." <- Op quote
I don't see how your accusation stands, that the vision of the game which Charlie described has "been abandoned". In your quote above, you are layering things on which were never stated by Charlie. ( ie "relatively simple tools" and "just serves science and discovery". )
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the story setup doesn't even specify what role your character has on the ship... which had a mission of colonization, not specifically research and science. All I could ascertain was that I am the lone survivor and I better start making use of what I find whether I'm a scientist, engineer, explorer, janitor or now some crazy new amateur combination of all those.
I'm not trying to come off as angry or dismissive at all, I just think your argument is pre-mature at this point and misconstrues explanations about the general vision of the game to fit your claim of abandonment.
I like your excitement about making the alien ocean the main character and I basically agree with that sentiment, but isn't it already so (and has been for a good while) even in this stage of development? I mean if you read the reviews and comments across the forums, it's pretty safe to say that is already an impressive feature of the game with all the fear, wonder, and amazement it has invoked in their descriptions of play. There is also A LOT more to come which will enhance that aspect even more. Looking at the details of this next update you can see it's only going to be realized even better (again).
As was just noted and as others have pointed out, there is still a lot more to come, across many aspects of the game, which I feel pretty certain would include and address what it seems is an issue for you. Story is just now being introduced more via Tom Jubert. In base analyzers, as well as updates to PDA analyzer functionality, are coming. More creatures to study are coming. More environments to explore. More interaction mechanics. More ecosystem mechanics. Research and science is something you best incorporate fully AFTER these things are in place. Guessing here, but it's likely very much a cart before horse scenario in answer to your main assertion. It's all still very much early access.
It was also my understanding, from Charlie and the devs, that the process of development on this game would be fluid (pun intended).
i admit that my post is a little exaggerated on purpose in order to stirr discussion about this. I dont really want to accuse the devs of having abandoned mr. clevelands ideas - i just use the sensationalistic approach to get attention to this concept of the game. in hopes the devs see there are players that still remember this stuff and are waiting for it. in hopes not too much will be cut out in the end - in favor of decorative furniture,multiplayer,co-op etc.
and 2 cough is right- first the world needs to exist before any "sciency gameplay" can be implemented.
in the end i will for sure enjoy what they create - even if it turns out to be different to what i was hoping for. i also admit i´m not quite sure what exactly i was hoping for ... but i´m glad to see there are other players here that want exploration and "science" play a central part.
i trust that the developers will steer this in the right direction and i admit my sentence "i feel that subnautica strayed far from its innitial ideas." is a little over the top.
Honestly, I think the next few patches will include more of this. We will see flora incorporated and become more than decoration (as food) and we will see analyzation of species and their eggs. These are barely being touched on so far, and there is a lot of potential here. In fact, I worry that the potential (and the vision) are so big that it might not be achievable.
When I was reading about Subnautica for the first time, I imagined watching the different species, and basically having journal entries "unlock" when you observe a species doing something. "Stalkers like metal shiny things" "Stalkers prefer peepers but leave hoverfish alone" "Peepers always swim in groups of odd numbers, never even" and things like that (obviously with a bit more flair). Honestly, I think that is kinda the reason why the "Gallery" function is being added to the PDA (but for all I know, it is an in-game way to make screenshots. I'll be happy either way).
In short, I think that those systems are coming, and I hope they do. I have been absolutely loving Subnautica, and I love to see whatever progress is being made. I think the team is pursuing a very logical method of development, and it is shaping up beautifully. I doubt anything has been forgotten quite yet, although it may take some time to show up.
Either way, I'm excited for the future, impressed by the present, and think fondly on the past.