Pub Stomping and cowardism
L!NCOLN
Join Date: 2009-07-26 Member: 68272Members
Join Date: 2009-07-26 Member: 68272Members
I'm not sure if this is the correct place for this discussion, I apologize if it is not, I'm sure it will be moved to the appropriate forum.
First let me introduce myself. My name is L!NCOLN (here it is Jaunt because I'm not sure how to change it). I have a medium range hour count of 1300 (500 hive).
Why am I bothering to post this? Three reasons in order of importance:
1) This kind of cowardly "pub stomping" behavior turns newer players off and prevents the game from gaining new players.
2) It's just not helpful in teaching newer players to play since the "stomper" just wants to increase the size of his e-peen.
3) it's just plain cowardly (this is the one that pisses me off the most personally).
This morning I was feeling bored and decided to join a less than 100 hours server in order to help some of the newer players and answer questions and command for them a little. Of course what happens next, a more experienced player (of course not compared to me, this is to edify that I'm not crying because I got "stomped") joined the server. He was playing under Naming and shaming is not permitted in these forums -Ironhorse also on the server and was helping the newer players a bit also (I think). I checked the hive hours of all the players on the server and indeed only 3 people (not including myself) exceeded the hour requirement. Naming and shaming is not permitted in these forums -Ironhorse(who felt he was bad anyway and he did seem to fit in skill wise).
Anyway I just found it particularly cowardly of Naming and shaming is not permitted in these forums -Ironhorse. Maybe these servers should be hour enforced. Unfortunately we live in a world of cowards and so we can't use the "honor" system since they have none apparently. This stinks for the more experienced players who want to help out but w/e, what can ya do?
The counter-argument presented by Naming and shaming is not permitted in these forums -Ironhorse is that there are no "rookie" servers anymore in NS2 and therefore it simply doesn't matter. I would argue that the hour count of the players on the server disproves this and that because something is one way doesn't make it right and doesn't give us the right to contribute to it.
Tl;dr : Stop bashing on newer players you people who know the game. "rookie friendly" and "rookie only less than 100 hrs" are very different things. Or come play on No Rookies and stop being a puss.
First let me introduce myself. My name is L!NCOLN (here it is Jaunt because I'm not sure how to change it). I have a medium range hour count of 1300 (500 hive).
Why am I bothering to post this? Three reasons in order of importance:
1) This kind of cowardly "pub stomping" behavior turns newer players off and prevents the game from gaining new players.
2) It's just not helpful in teaching newer players to play since the "stomper" just wants to increase the size of his e-peen.
3) it's just plain cowardly (this is the one that pisses me off the most personally).
This morning I was feeling bored and decided to join a less than 100 hours server in order to help some of the newer players and answer questions and command for them a little. Of course what happens next, a more experienced player (of course not compared to me, this is to edify that I'm not crying because I got "stomped") joined the server. He was playing under Naming and shaming is not permitted in these forums -Ironhorse also on the server and was helping the newer players a bit also (I think). I checked the hive hours of all the players on the server and indeed only 3 people (not including myself) exceeded the hour requirement. Naming and shaming is not permitted in these forums -Ironhorse(who felt he was bad anyway and he did seem to fit in skill wise).
Anyway I just found it particularly cowardly of Naming and shaming is not permitted in these forums -Ironhorse. Maybe these servers should be hour enforced. Unfortunately we live in a world of cowards and so we can't use the "honor" system since they have none apparently. This stinks for the more experienced players who want to help out but w/e, what can ya do?
The counter-argument presented by Naming and shaming is not permitted in these forums -Ironhorse is that there are no "rookie" servers anymore in NS2 and therefore it simply doesn't matter. I would argue that the hour count of the players on the server disproves this and that because something is one way doesn't make it right and doesn't give us the right to contribute to it.
Tl;dr : Stop bashing on newer players you people who know the game. "rookie friendly" and "rookie only less than 100 hrs" are very different things. Or come play on No Rookies and stop being a puss.
Comments
There was however 2 or 3 individuals who were... average players, hardly veterans - but were quite toxic towards these guys. Ejecting the rookies, calling them names, calling them stupid, ignorant etc. I tried my very best to explain to these guys that a new influx of rookies was expected due to the promotional event - but they did not seem to understand or care to understand. I tried directing them to youtube and the forum posts, but they would have non of it.
Unfortunately, we can't reach everybody. I think the best thing we can do, is to direct rookies to moderated servers with active admins, who have some real authority to correct this type of behavior. But trying to reach the "bullies", I think is a fools errand.
1. Contact the admin of any server you see such behavior on. Ask them if they want to allow such behavior. Explain to them that there is an influx of rookies because of the Polaris videos, and that they can help ns2 succeed by doing something about these players. I would hope they are more reasonable people than the players SantaClaws described. In fact, most ns2 server admins I have known are reasonable people. It would help your argument a long way if you could provide a video of the player being toxic. Also, if the admin is willing to at least temp ban, you can provide them with the player id by opening the console with ~ and typing "sv_status" without quotes.
2. Try and direct rookies to well moderated servers. This will provide them with a better experience in ns2. As difficult as it may be, a few rookies might listen and stick with the game.
TAW and TGNS are both heavily moderated servers. I know there are other good servers, but I don't know their policies on moderation and rookies.
@jaunt, if you ask nicely I think an admin is able to change your username.
TAW has a rookie friendly policy. If you see any bad behaviour on taw servers I would very much like to hear of it.
We have logs, so even if its after the event I can find out. It wont fix the damage caused, but it will fix future damage by shiny perm bans.
And the worse part is, NS2 is more susceptible to this than other games due to the team dependency of the gameplay, which is just an extra trigger for some to become douchy...
On the one had a teamplay based game like NS/NS2, tends to have a positive effect on people. Being nicer, because they are dependent on each other and kinda form a sort of brotherhood to a small extent... On the other hand, you do have those odd ones out that simply do not care and get balls the size of jupiter to spout bile against new or casual players.
In short... Admin power > all
While the guy shouldn't be on a rookie-only server regardless, neither should you. It is pretty hypocritical of you to repeatedly call someone cowardly for exhibiting exactly the same behavior. Unless, you were behaving somehow differently to the people in question - however not once in your post have you explained how your own behaviour differed, but instead threw around insults and name/shaming.
Was it okay that you were there because you were lesser-skilled compared to the people in question? Were you purposefully playing bad? Were you using pistols-only? Did you relegate yourself only to a commander or gorge role?
Personally, I don't think it matters. You shouldn't chew someone out for exceeding the hour requirement on a rookie server while you also are. It's clear that those people shouldn't be on the server, but neither should you.
to d0ped0g:
Your post is adversarial but I failed to locate a cohesive argument against my post other than I was "shaming" (which Ironhorse took care of and I acquiesced). I also made clear in my post that I joined with the intention of helping the newer players and did indeed religate myself to a commander / answering questions role. I spent one game killing the pubstomper and only the pubstomper (yes I flew around as lerk until I could see the name plate then attacked). So no I don't feel I was behaving cowardly, and infact I freely admit my hour count and give my name and identity; I have nothing to hide. Also I believe I mentioned in my post that one player exceeded the hour requirement but seemed on their level and I never called him a coward. I do question whether you even read my post at all.
The reason for being on the server has to do with helping the newer players learn, otherwise it can be "the blind leading the blind".
I welcome any cohesive argument to the contrary.
He also says he is going to update the mods, and he is looking into possibly enforcing players having >100 hours of play time.
His 3 servers have been dead for months, so he is really excited they have new found activity lately. It is probably from the polaris videos, which he did not know about yet. Hearing about them only made him more excited.
someone help out the server and maybe do spec-only for people over time,
them rookies certainly do need coaching... and god is it entertaining sometimes to watch.
Personally I don't feel they need any coaching. Give them enough time on their own with equally low skilled rookies and they will learn. I think the rookie tournament showed that.
Yes, to me that video made it apparent how important it is to give rookies a safe bubble to play in as they learn the mechanics before really stepping out onto the field. Pretty much any one of those youtubers would have been torn up by even an average player.
On it https://trello.com/c/dgoMjaoT/595-rookie-only-servers-should-be-supported-without-mods
On the other hand some rookies are under average IQ. Trying to help and teach is hard.
I'm advertising for helping new people. 1 or 2 added me as Steam Friend, none did ask anything since i do it. So they must know the game like the back of their hand right ?
I even saw a bunch of rookies stacking together. The 2K players were saying for 5 minutes "guys you really want to do this?", no answer -> bloodshed. I have no mercy when they ask so nicely to get spanked.
As long as there is :
- no isolation except using specific mod (as @2cough mentioned)
- no minimal tutorial enforced (more stimulating the brain than what we have)
- no game mode (like pregame) in which we can teach.
, there will be problems like that.The tutorial do not take them to make choices like saving IP vs RT or something else.
Pre-game is a game mode that is deactivated once enough players have joined. On a +18 slot server, the pregame sequence is more likely to be measured in seconds. What i'm suggesting is a game mode that is voted and then teachers do the job. Right now it's more a few sec as long as nobody is on the server and as long as some idiot don't jump in the CC.
Does not fall into a minimal tutorial in my opinion. I am not saying the current enforced tutorial is great either.
That's what you call experience.
The problem with most new players, beyond movement and aim, is that, even when they know what they should be reacting to, they don't know if they should be.
The majority of the time, there is someone closer that should be dealing with something, and your job is to make sure nothing flanks your team or the guy taking care of the biter.
Greens are like sheep, they flock.
That single line might be the best description of newbie behavior I've ever seen... We need Shepherds to... No in this case we'd need wolves to separate them from the herd...
Dammit, so close yet so far away from a solution
Is that what bothers you, not the green marine walking in front of your meatshot on a fade?
Just wait till those players learn that gorges can make walls. Sometimes I'll just see fade\onos traps. They're very effective.
Fun game to play... Troll or noob. Sometimes figuring it out is harder than it should be
I do think to myself "are these the players we truly need?".
This is what makes NS2 so enjoyable in its niche market but also is its downfall, we don't need anymore call of duty / battlefield players.
At the same time it can be so incredibly satisfying when you can reach multiple rookies. I remember games where I was the only veteran on the server, and I would command and lead my team to victory. While doing it I would describe what they should be doing better, and they would listen. We all had a great time and played many games together that night. When you get a bunch of rookies who listen it can be so incredible.
Now do any of them still play ns2? I doubt it. That is the sad part.
You allways have fun when you play with you're friend either side by side or by skype!
I highly recomend it!
Also i've protected him against THOSE assholes out there and making every game fun even if we loose having a good laughter allways helps!
Sorry for such a random comment... :P
Just don't get too good or you'll be committing the worst sin known to NS2 players
The beauty of taw. You play with and against each other twice a week, so I am less 'needy' to play with them on the same team in pub.
(yes id count them as friends as this point, we even have yearly RL meetups
I suggest for everyone to try playing against their friends now and then.