[Request] Please give Cyclops sonar and a way to see whats directly below the keel

SpacedInvaderSpacedInvader Join Date: 2016-01-08 Member: 211083Members
edited January 2016 in Ideas and Suggestions
After seeing the cyclops chipped upgrades card move into the doing category on the Trello I decided I had to bring this up just one more time in the hopes that it catches the Devs' attention... I apologize if this is kicking a dead horse...

As it stands, I believe the two most significant shortcomings of the Cyclops are its power consumption and the difficulty in navigating it into the depths. As I believe the former is guaranteed to be fixed in some way, my focus remains on the latter since there has been no mention of it by the Devs that I've been able to find. Due to its length, turning radius, and limited field of view, attempting to dive with the Cyclops into anything other than open water will often result in some part of the sub far behind or below your field of view contacting the ground, even if the area in front of your viewing bubble appears to be clear of any obstacles. This problem only gets worse as you descend deeper thanks to the ever darker environment and often very steep terrain. Considering that the Cyclops is apparently the vehicle intended to travel into the lava zone once its complete (referencing the concept art here and here, as well as the advanced hull upgrades in the works specifically for the Cyclops), I can only imagine how much of a pain it will be to attempt to navigate into, and then through, the complex caverns leading to that zone without some way to see whats around the sub beyond the limited view granted by the lights.

The most basic, and probably easiest, solution to this problem would be to grant the Cyclops the same form of sonar upgrade that the SeaMoth already has. Though this would not do much to inform the driver of what is directly below the sub, it would at least give them a much clearer picture of what is ahead within their field of view. An alternative, or possibly additional, option would be to give the user a 3D holographic map projected from the control column, similar to that offered by the SeaGlide. This would give the user a better picture of the terrain all around the sub, though it would be of limited use in navigating a cavern without some modifications to indicate the shape of the cavern and not simply the terrain above the cavern, as the SeaGlide's map currently displays. A third solution, which would probably best be used in conjunction with the sonar upgrade previously mentioned, would be a depth below keel indication in addition to the standard depth gauge. This would give a readout to the driver of the closest distance to terrain below any part of the keel (as opposed to just the center or lowest parts) so that they could be aware of a potential contact with terrain behind their field of view before it happens. While there are other possible solutions (e.g. true 3D mapping of the environment), I would hesitate to present these here as they would be complex additions to the game and, as such, represent a lot of coding work by the Devs that they may not be able to do, given timetable constraints.

Again I apologize if this has been repetition of previous discussions, but I truly believe that the Cyclops will not make significant gains in its overall usefulness without a way to properly navigate it into the depths without developing a clear picture of the surrounding environment or smashing its tail into terrain that you didn't even know was there.

Comments

  • DinkelsenDinkelsen Graz Join Date: 2015-10-05 Member: 208309Members
    They could begin by reworking the steering wheel. It is blocking the most sensitive portion of the viewport most of the time: in front and below the sub. That's where the terrain is that I try not to collide with. Removing the blue glowing parts and reworking it into a more framelike structure would totally suffice.
  • SpacedInvaderSpacedInvader Join Date: 2016-01-08 Member: 211083Members
    Dinkelsen wrote: »
    They could begin by reworking the steering wheel. It is blocking the most sensitive portion of the viewport most of the time: in front and below the sub. That's where the terrain is that I try not to collide with. Removing the blue glowing parts and reworking it into a more framelike structure would totally suffice.

    Honestly, I hadn't even thought of that, but its very true. I have adopted a side to side wiggle when piloting the cyclops, similar to the way a tail-dragger airplane taxis because they can't see whats directly in front of them.
  • zetachronzetachron Germany Join Date: 2014-11-14 Member: 199655Members
    In my opinion they should allow the cyclops to get an axial tilt, so a goal can be focused directly. This would allow to play around or target at leviathans or other goals. The movement difficulty of the cyclops should rather be the inertia than the inability to tilt.

    Then the vision should include a sonar. I don't see why the cyclops tech should be inferior to the seamoth. It's rather vice versa and the seamoth should have no sonar instead the cyclops. To make travels difficult, obstacles of organic type and currents will make the life of navigating the cyclops difficult to get them through deep and dangerous zones. Maybe currents will only appear in the lava depths.

    Same for solar recharge of cyclops. Necessary if not nuclear powered. But overpowered for the seamoth. The seamoth should need the moonpool to recharge. The cyclops might not need recharging if solar or nuclear powered, but surely if only working with power cells.


    Final judgement: While it's possible to navigate the cyclops through the deep reef and inactive lava zone, it's not even fun to drive it anywhere in the game right now. The cyclops needs controls that makes it fun to navigate it. If not, at least vision should be upgraded like the OP describes above. It looks like energy improvements are on its way.
  • coldsnapcoldsnap Join Date: 2015-12-26 Member: 210395Members
    I thought it would be fun if the Cyclops had functional displays, like a 2D or 3D map, depth meter displaying the actual depth below keel, maybe a display showing a downwards-facing camera (similar to how rear-view mirrors are done in racing games) etc. It would be quite awesome in VR mode.
  • ExentenzedExentenzed Norway Join Date: 2016-01-26 Member: 212122Members
    edited January 2016
    There are 4 things that keep me from using and enjoying the cyclops:

    The horrendus Field of view from the bridge.
    The power requirments and the tediousness of recharging it.
    General uselessness due to Seamoth range.
    The annoying controls
  • SpacedInvaderSpacedInvader Join Date: 2016-01-08 Member: 211083Members
    @zetachron, I can understand the logic behind giving the seamoth sonar and solar charging, though still not above the cyclops. Because of its size and maneuverability, the seamoth will often find itself in caves and other tight spaces, as such, its very important that it be given sonar so that it can see where its going in the dark. It has the solar charger, I believe, because it is intended to be configured like a shuttle, with the ability to scoot out on short errands without needing to carry extra power cells. Though it seems op, the solar charger is going to become less useful for end-game content as much of it will be deep below the reach of the sun.
    Exentenzed wrote: »
    There are 4 things that keep me from using and enjoying the cyclops:

    The horrendus Field of view from the bridge.
    The power requirments and the tediousness of recharging it.
    General uselessness due to Seamoth range.
    The annoying controls

    I agree with all of these except the assessment that the seamoth makes the cyclops useless. I treat my cyclops like a mobile temporary base, installing several lockers and a fabricator on board. Normally, I drive it out to a location where I'm going to be collecting materials or exploring extensively, dive it into a central location and then do short excursions with my seamoth. This saves me lots of travel time, as I'm able to take food and water with me, and then fill up the lockers of the cyclops with raw materials before heading home. If I were to just take a seamoth, I'd have a much more limited time on location due to lack of food, and I'd fill up my inventory very quickly, causing me to have to make multiple runs back to base. So yeah, I want the cyclops to be better, but it is far from useless.
  • ExentenzedExentenzed Norway Join Date: 2016-01-26 Member: 212122Members
    edited January 2016
    I agree with all of these except the assessment that the seamoth makes the cyclops useless. I treat my cyclops like a mobile temporary base, installing several lockers and a fabricator on board. Normally, I drive it out to a location where I'm going to be collecting materials or exploring extensively, dive it into a central location and then do short excursions with my seamoth. This saves me lots of travel time, as I'm able to take food and water with me, and then fill up the lockers of the cyclops with raw materials before heading home. If I were to just take a seamoth, I'd have a much more limited time on location due to lack of food, and I'd fill up my inventory very quickly, causing me to have to make multiple runs back to base. So yeah, I want the cyclops to be better, but it is far from useless.

    Yea, you know, its probably just me and my refusal to visit biomes that doesnt have things i actually want/isnt finished yet.

    Also, thanks to cured food i bring the food i need with me, water doesnt spoil, and with my preferred seamoth configuration of: 1x perimeter defense x1 sonar/depth module x2 cargo room, i have all the room i need really.

    also i plan out how long i will be gone based on what i need or are stocking up on, so i usually end up eating the last piece of food and water when i need the last 2 slots for inventory (If i even fill it up which is rare).

    Now sure, the cyclops would make things a bit easier, but due to its power requirements i find it not to be worth it.

    It should also be mentioned that before the water filtration and large aquarium got put in, i didnt play survival.
    And with the fact that the other resources will eventually deplete, i almost never use "consumables". additional power cells and batteries i only craft in emergencies. (still havent needed one to recharge a tool/vehicle since i started my last game)

    So in hindsight let me rephrase; the cyclops isnt useless, but it just isnt worth using it for me due to my playstyle.

    Also, incase you where curious, the only biomes i visit:

    Shallows (duh)
    Kelp forest
    Grassy plateus
    Grand reef (just long enough to get the moon pool)
    Mushroom forest
    Wreck

    At this point those biomes have everything i need/want for my playstyle, and i try to refrain from exploring biomes as much as i can until a more finished version of the game is out. :)
    And most of those i do visit arent far enough away to warrant useage of the cyclops. :)
  • RadavvadraRadavvadra South Africa Join Date: 2015-08-15 Member: 207189Members
    I actually had fun with the cyclops in freedom mode but ever since I started playing survival the difficulty of recharging it has made it of very limited use. I agree that it does need a better field of view and sonar. I also think I should be able to pitch this isn't just a practical concern it's also a potential immersion problem since a submarine would need some kind of pitch adjustment mechanism in order to stay level underwater and one would expect that system to be controllable from the helm, to prevent issues with the sub being at the wrong angle it could just autolevel like it already does when uncontrolled.
  • Racer1Racer1 Join Date: 2002-11-22 Member: 9615Members
    Rad: Just attach 5-10 solar panels to the top/outside. You will never worry again. (Note: UWE is in the process of removing this, but will replace it with "official" solar panels/other power at the same time).
  • SpacedInvaderSpacedInvader Join Date: 2016-01-08 Member: 211083Members
    Racer1 wrote: »
    Rad: Just attach 5-10 solar panels to the top/outside. You will never worry again. (Note: UWE is in the process of removing this, but will replace it with "official" solar panels/other power at the same time).

    In the experimental build, this is already done. I haven't been able to add anything to the top of the Cyclops for about a week.
  • JaggSauceJaggSauce Denmark Join Date: 2016-01-30 Member: 212349Members
    Racer1 wrote: »
    Rad: Just attach 5-10 solar panels to the top/outside. You will never worry again. (Note: UWE is in the process of removing this, but will replace it with "official" solar panels/other power at the same time).

    it certainly did NOT happen at the same time... can't put ANYTHING on my cyclops now, and there is no special cyclops-only solar panels.. so at this point i am like "fuck it!" **spawns 30 powercells and stuffs a locker on the Cyclops with them**

    Problem solved.
  • SpacedInvaderSpacedInvader Join Date: 2016-01-08 Member: 211083Members
    My solution is just to hold off on playing for a little while until the battery charger is put into the experimental build. I'm guessing I won't be waiting long.
  • DumaDuma Oklahoma Join Date: 2016-02-02 Member: 212475Members
    One could almost live with the limited field of view. If the lights were more powerful ahead, and to the sides. It drives like what it is. A submarine. No issues there. Inability to place a nuclear reactor in it, and limited utility means it sits beside my main base looking pretty.

  • Racer1Racer1 Join Date: 2002-11-22 Member: 9615Members
    If you are playing on experimental, all bets are off. You can be fairly certain this will be addressed on stable release.
  • rhys_elcinsrhys_elcins UK Join Date: 2016-01-26 Member: 212148Members
    I just want a couple of cameras to provide extra fields of view - like the parking cameras that some cars and buses have......
    The cyclops is exceedingly useful in vaguely open water, but horrific in tight spaces...... I can't even dock the thing properly in my base (house rules)!
  • BugzapperBugzapper Australia Join Date: 2015-03-06 Member: 201744Members
    If and when the Cyclops sonar capability is being developed, it might also be a good idea to rework the helm pedestal at the same time. Remove the central control yoke graphic and replace it with animated port and starboard joysticks mounted on the arms of the pilot's seat.

    Result: Instant increase in viewing field and the sonar display can then be projected over the observation dome. A navigational map overlay that updates the terrain details of each area as it is explored could be included in the sonar systems upgrade.
  • SpacedInvaderSpacedInvader Join Date: 2016-01-08 Member: 211083Members
    I agree... the more I drive the cyclops around lately, the more I'm wanting to be able to see whats in the space exactly behind the steering column. I'm thinking that the cyclops really needs a control layout like this:
    Taken from Mechwarrior Online
    FwiaW5x.jpg

    Sitting instead of standing, with a stick on one side, throttle on the other, and pedals for direction, you'd have nearly your whole forward field of view available, which would save a lot of needless turning to see what is directly in front and below you.
  • Duff_yDuff_y Join Date: 2016-02-22 Member: 213329Members
    I registered just to emphasize the need of a better view in the Cyclops cockpit.
  • zetachronzetachron Germany Join Date: 2014-11-14 Member: 199655Members
    I'd say it all depends on what the player or devs intend the cyclops to use for:

    1) Explore the world and act as a mobile base for seamoth and exosuit
    I have no problems with that behaviour.
    Even managed to get the cyclops near that lava castle through the deep reef maze and the inactive lava zone.
    And there is only deep reef, lava zone and lost river that need cyclops entering these cave systems.

    2) Use the cyclops as a deep sea explorer and evading leviathan creatures
    Sonar is good for finding your way through deep reef, lava zone and probably lost river, although luxury.
    But without advanced controls like the seamoth has, this sub is a sitting duck against any mobile dangers.
    It simply can't evade or target anything underwater or see anything in pitch black.

    But in the end even the slightest vision upgrade would make me happier. Better than nothing.
    If you ask me what I want I'd say let the cyclops allow to turn its head wherever it wants. And that includes facing downwards.
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