Fragments should be predetermined based on what you need next
IronHorse
Developer, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributor Join Date: 2010-05-08 Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
Developer, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributor Join Date: 2010-05-08 Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
I have to point out something that's been a source of frustration:
Fragments are something you need to progress - and not knowing where to find one that you need is not only frustrating in such a giant world, but also because you more often than not are picking up fragments that you don't need yet or already have.
This is silly imo.
Why not have each fragment you find be the next type of fragment you need, to create a controlled progression and remove frustration?
This way :
To the potential counter argument of : "well if you know you'll find the next piece elsewhere, you won't look as hard in the current biome"
I say : "Sure, but currently there's enough fragments in the world to not negatively impact you missing one - you won't suddenly be fragment-less when you are looking for the very last fragment in the game, and there's enough reasons and benefits already to thoroughly search an area/biome."
To the potential counter argument of: "I don't like someone else determining what I need next"
I say : "I get that, but as someone who hasn't memorized WHERE the pieces are that you want next, it makes sense to direct it. It's not rewarding or fun picking up fragments that I cannot use yet, or already have, especially when I cannot find the next most useful fragment that I need to progress. Relying on the Wiki is not sufficient, you can't expect every player to depend on that."
Thoughts?
Edit: In the Trello board it mentions fragments being placed in wrecks / lifepods and intuitive areas in the world, which is a great for many reasons, but partially addresses one of the bullet point issues I mention here, as it can assist in determining whether you want to stop and pick it up from a distance.
Also the new map room might be able to completely justify removing any extras and knowing where to go, if its going to be what i suspect it will be.
Fragments are something you need to progress - and not knowing where to find one that you need is not only frustrating in such a giant world, but also because you more often than not are picking up fragments that you don't need yet or already have.
This is silly imo.
Why not have each fragment you find be the next type of fragment you need, to create a controlled progression and remove frustration?
This way :
-
* Fragments are ALWAYS valuable and worth picking up
* There's no useless extras laying around to fool you
* You won't receive fragments that you currently have no use for, or require another fragment first
* You never are forced to look up a Wiki online where to find the fragment you are looking for - you just keep exploring new areas.
* If you fail to investigate an area well enough, the next biome will still have that last fragment piece you are looking for.
* Players won't have to somehow innately know fragment dependencies, like that they need the Moonpool fragment first in order to use the Seamoth Modification Station etc.
To the potential counter argument of : "well if you know you'll find the next piece elsewhere, you won't look as hard in the current biome"
I say : "Sure, but currently there's enough fragments in the world to not negatively impact you missing one - you won't suddenly be fragment-less when you are looking for the very last fragment in the game, and there's enough reasons and benefits already to thoroughly search an area/biome."
To the potential counter argument of: "I don't like someone else determining what I need next"
I say : "I get that, but as someone who hasn't memorized WHERE the pieces are that you want next, it makes sense to direct it. It's not rewarding or fun picking up fragments that I cannot use yet, or already have, especially when I cannot find the next most useful fragment that I need to progress. Relying on the Wiki is not sufficient, you can't expect every player to depend on that."
Thoughts?
Edit: In the Trello board it mentions fragments being placed in wrecks / lifepods and intuitive areas in the world, which is a great for many reasons, but partially addresses one of the bullet point issues I mention here, as it can assist in determining whether you want to stop and pick it up from a distance.
Also the new map room might be able to completely justify removing any extras and knowing where to go, if its going to be what i suspect it will be.
Comments
Indeed fragments are needed for progressing the game. However, game has quite literally, little to offer aside from exploration and even less to motivate a person to explore the world... Not meeting specific requirement to tech up should force exploration on to a player while promoting feeling of insecurity and vulnerability to environment. More precisely, having a seamoth pretty much eliminates most kind of threat and at that point turns the game to building simulator. Having to work hard will yield a greater experience. Strapping on more than a few tanks and exposing yourself to danger up close and personal is crucial for exploration/survival imho. 1. Agreed They should be, to a lesser or greater extent. . How about improving one of stats for existing design? Ex. % speed/hull/depth for seamoth?
2. I think they are going for unique look for every fragment... Visual identification should for the most part eliminate mentioned concern.
3. Disagree. I feel that forcing linear progression will make the game predictable.
4. Well... Using wiki actually ruined me. 4 HC games, few hours in already had power to go anywhere, nothing to look forward to. Granted, game did a really bad job conveying knowledge and the it did not intuitively teach me anything about itself. Will blame EA for that because UWE games always convey tips how to get better and not naturally selected as stomping material... <.< >.>
5. If you fail to investigate an area well enough, the next biome will still may have that last fragment piece you are looking for. Voicing an opinion, not forcibly changing the sentence. Wording of statement is what i'm going after here
6. Valid argument, agreed. Again its up to game to teach us while the game is in progress. Just a thought: Maybe a bit of computer exposition voice that tells us calmly what is the state of the crashed ship. Player has to build that "assistant" and it informs something along the lines "Interaction between fauna in area are indicating predator-prey relationship in biome. Proceed with caution/recommend using exploration vessel" for biomes that players are ill equipped or PDA on first use activates itself and reveals some in game mechanics. Not too much exposition for better player-game interaction. Players could upon discovery of "abandoned bases" learn about technology they themselves can have: broken aquarium room, bulkheads in deeper bases workbench and so on.
Although I'd suggest a different approach:
1. Let it work like you suggest for early low tech around the initial lifepod until the primary needs are satisfied and you have a small base and some vehicle to explore more of the world.
2. For mid tech the player has more time to explore and should find tech at wrecks around the world based on random distribution. It allows higher replayability as you can't learn the discovery places. And the player isn't under pressure to find the next wanted tech.
3. For late to end game tech the best approch would be the treasure hunter logic trace. You discover some pda and learn of a location described of some lost tech. You need to think were that could be and search at that area. The tech is hidden too good to find it without clues. Like a crate buried in sand near a reaper cave and the pda mentioned of a new rebreather tech prototype that was lost when a reaper intercepted the seamoth. You search for reaper caves, find some seamoth wreck parts and dig around the wreck parts, finding some crate buried in sand.
It would be better to read about a sunken big sub that got lost directly beneath the floating isle, where a wrecked cyclops hull can be found. Another broken part can be found at an abononed base where it was docked ...
This will go a long way to ensuring some proper guidance of location and ensuring certain tech is *probably* found before others. (very similar to @zetachron 's idea)
It will be used sparingly supposedly, so the remainder of the fragments will still be something encouraging you to openly explore.
Sounds like a good middle ground, and hopefully will eliminate some of the need for certain redundant fragments being in the world.