"I only play StarCratft 2 because of SquadronTD and Blizzard doesn't support it, therefor StarCraft 2 is ****"
"I only play CounterStrike because of surf maps and Valve doesnt build surf maps, don't buy CounterStrike, it's ****"
"I only play Dota 2 because of Pudge Wars, Valve doesn't wan't to make it an official game mode and I need to install it from workshop. Everyone write negative reviews"
Do you really expect anyone to take this seriously? Compare player numbers of said games with ns2 and then think again, whats different about these games' and ns2s' server browser. Mod-seggregation may work when there's enough players like in Dota 2 (millions) but it does NOT work with low player numbers in the hundreds like ns2 has.
Also divert from making personal insults i.e. "paranoid dude". Not helping to prove your point.
So because one server's community doesn't get exactly what it wants all the others deserve to die as well?
Your better than putting words in my mouth. Act like it. If you can't to that do NS2 a favor and resign from your position you are embarassing.
Firstly, there is more than one ns2-community that has been deeply pissed off by the developers actions.
Secondly, if the amount of people pissed of is so high, that the feedback that happens to spill off into Steam reviews (remember, most people post on these forums first, others like me haven't even written a review yet) manages to give the game a mixed rating, then yes, the developer is killing the game with their changes, and they should take responsibility for their actions. Either they are going to apologize and amend or fix the bad changes, or they are going to keep them like a stubborn little child and be proud of sinking the ship. In the last case, the developer and the game deserves to die - the community did their best to make the developer aware of the negative impact of the changes.
But this is not the point. As I said earlier, changes should be done, but they should also be reverted if they suck. A big part of being human is the ability to learn from mistakes, even mistakes someone else did. UWE hasn't learned from other developers mistakes, but they still have the chance to learn from their own.
But this is not the point. As I said earlier, changes should be done, but they should also be reverted if they suck. A big part of being human is the ability to learn from mistakes, even mistakes someone else did. UWE hasn't learned from other developers mistakes, but they still have the chance to learn from their own.
And they should be expanded when they are good. The recent changes were good and some have been asked for for a long while. Actually it feels like UWE finally starts to listen to feedback again and consider ideas for implemention.
If UWE is not able to learn from the feedback that they received, I am sorry, then this game and it's company deserve to go out of business
So because one server's community doesn't get exactly what it wants all the others deserve to die as well?
Wow..
That's misguided and you know it.
Large servers are not killing small servers. No one is saying Large is the only way to play, no one is forcing anyone to play Large. People play where they want to play. If small servers are dying, it reflects on small server gameplay, does it not?
And the idea that you can 'force' people who enjoy large games to play on small servers is the height of ignorance. You can't control how people play the game -- it's up to them, not you. @2Onos1Gorge is right: either you make the game they want to play and prosper, or you don't and won't.
We have two communities: small and large. You know how to make this game grow? Promote both.
And they should be expanded when they are good. The recent changes were good and some have been asked for for a long while. Actually it feels like UWE finally starts to listen to feedback again and consider ideas for implemention.
If the changes are so good, how can such a significant number of bad reviews happen?
"I only play StarCratft 2 because of SquadronTD and Blizzard doesn't support it, therefor StarCraft 2 is ****"
"I only play CounterStrike because of surf maps and Valve doesnt build surf maps, don't buy CounterStrike, it's ****"
"I only play Dota 2 because of Pudge Wars, Valve doesn't wan't to make it an official game mode and I need to install it from workshop. Everyone write negative reviews"
Ridiculous right? Well that's what happens with NS2 currently. Also apparently one paranoid dude is asking his disciples to write them.
How low can you sink?
you cant compare those games with ns2 right now because those games have a ridiculous amount of players
also the server browsers arent the same
also those didnt change or atleast dramatically change the mods/map features or whatever
as for counterstrike you can still play as always surf maps the same way
as for starcraft 2 you can still play the same way the maps with its key features
also if they had the same amount of players the developers would have made different decisions therefore different mistakes different problems
you should just focus on this game unless you find features of other games that could be suggested to be added to the game made specifically to ns2
although this game is slowly getting outdated as time passes... we are in 2016 what will await us in the next years?
And they should be expanded when they are good. The recent changes were good and some have been asked for for a long while. Actually it feels like UWE finally starts to listen to feedback again and consider ideas for implemention.
If the changes are so good, how can such a significant number of bad reviews happen?
Because the one dude from a subcommunity is promoting it. If you look at the reviews its mostly from guys that barely played anything but on ns2Large.
Also divert from making personal insults i.e. "paranoid dude". Not helping to prove your point.
Conspiracy theories sound like picture book paranoia to me. He probably thinks that UWE wants to destroy his servers and seeks signs of this in every patch, conveniently ignoring updates that help his servers.
We have two communities: small and large. You know how to make this game grow? Promote both.
Problem is that to some people anything that is good or could be good for small servers is by defintion bad for large servers.
Because the one dude from a subcommunity is promoting it. If you look at the reviews its mostly from guys that barely played anything but on ns2Large.
So should ns2Large ppl not be allowed to make reviews? As I mentioned in my first post which got censored, people like you that think they know what's better for other people.
If UWE supports this kind of opinion they should just shut down all mods immediately that aren't allowed to make reviews.
Also, what is wrong about promoting reviews? They are still unique, not fakable and not censorable. Noone can force people to make negative reviews, so it is a legit source of information. That's why Steam reviews have such an impact in the first place, some officials said sales are going to plummet.
Please decide once and for all what is true in your worldview and stick with that story: Either the reviews are very important and have a high enough credibility, which stems from not being able to be faked and censored, to affect sales, then they should be taken seriously. Or all those negative reviews are fake, but then again noone would give Steam reviews credibility if that were the fact and then we can stop talking about them in here as they wouldn't affect sales in that case.
We all know the first story is true. You are doing NS2 a disservice by trying to discredit the feedback, instead of encouraging the developer to act in response to it.
I've never said that reviews should not be allowed (which is a silly thought anyway). I just find it a little bit sad, that people do follow along making negativ reviews, simply because the leader of the ns2large community asks them to. Just so he gets his way and forces everyone else who is not part of his little world to abide.
That guys biggest gripe is that now his server is not at the top of the server list anymore, but one click away at specifically named tab (and only once, because the choice is saved). Something that could be even beneficial for other mods.
Note that what the other mods - like compmod - critizised is the update frequency, which does hardly affect ns2large.
Ok just for the sake of argument, lets say UWE puts NS2 large back into the NS2 list where it does not belong.
Now I hate NS2 large due to the horrible performance and cluster**** gameplay. It doesn't effect me because thankfully the vast majority of the community plays on smaller servers, but I hate the change all the same because now I have to sift through the large servers...
So I turn around and leave a review that goes something like this... "Don't buy this game! The developers are corrupt and don't support their community in any way shape or form. They have killed this game by forcing people to play a horribly broken game mod"
Clearly that is not an accurate review, yet that is exactly what these large players are doing.
UWE has supported NS2 large servers to an insane extent, FAR more than any other developer would that's for certain!
They did not shut them down
They worked on optimizing the game specifically for large servers
They removed the player count so the servers don't need to run a hacked .exe file
They marked large as it's own game mode
That's 3 things right there that were done specifically to support the large community, and 1 thing to support the entire community as a whole.
Yet we now see large players leaving reviews like "Don't buy this game. The developers are corrupt and don't support their community at all. The latest update has hidden the most popular game mode, screwing over everyone who plays their game."
Now this entire review is nothing but blatant lies. The developers are not corrupt and support this game (is any other game this old still receiving this much support?) The latest update did not hide hide anything, and large is far from being the most popular game mode. Not one person is screwed over either as they are easily able to happily continue playing the game on their favorite large servers.. Yet they leave a review like that and you people are saying it's ok?
Large players are acting like their NS2 large mod is "hidden" under sub menu after sub menu, where nobody could ever dream of finding them unless they came onto the forums first.. This is utter nonsense as they are right there in plain sight at the top of the server list..
For anyone to suggest that their NS2 large servers are "hidden" is exactly like saying "people can't filter out empty servers because the option is "hidden" UWE is screwing the community by forcing us to sift through empty servers!"
I've never said that reviews should not be allowed (which is a silly thought anyway). I just find it a little bit sad, that people do follow along making negativ reviews, simply because the leader of the ns2large community asks them to. Just so he gets his way and forces everyone else who is not part of his little world to abide.
I find it sad that the developer makes changes that piss several ns2-communities off. Now let's see what was there first - poorly executed changes, or the bad reviews?
Right.
No need to be sad about feedback - one should be glad about feedback.
That guys biggest gripe is that now his server is not at the top of the server list anymore, but one click away at specifically named tab (and only once, because the choice is saved). Something that could be even beneficial for other mods.
The server browser changes might have been beneficial in a already large and further growing environment. In the current circumstances of a receding playerbase they are out of place and just kill everything that is not vanilla ns2.
Note that what the other mods - like compmod - critizised is the update frequency, which does hardly affect ns2large.
This even more supports my point that the developers in the recent timeframe pushed changes that were poorly thought out, as they managed to accomplish to piss off two different communities with two different updates.
They worked on optimizing the game specifically for large servers
A lie that ignorarant haters using. There was a task for helping 24+ servers in performance with moving the load on other thread. Other servers profits the same way as "NS2Large". Populated community servers with 24 or less slots got an performance boost as well, ask any other Server OP.
This improvement should have been done anyway, we have just highlighted the problem.
This was done by a dev with a neutral opinion regarding 24+ servers.
This even more supports my point that the developers in the recent timeframe pushed changes that were poorly thought out, as they managed to accomplish to piss off two different communities with two different updates.
No, the changes itself were mostly good for the gameplay and / or long demanded features. Some have barely influence on gameplay (e.g. tutorials, sticky-shoes, skins), some are disputable and need more refinement (e.g. healthbar, power-surge, dissolve).
Compmod and NS2+ has / had a problem with weekly updates, because they have a harder time keeping up with potential mod breaking changes.
We are no game mode. We are Woozas. We are NS2.
You are a game mode. Your part of NS2 but only one part from many. The same as other modification are part of the whole of what makes NS2. Get down from your high horse.
Large players are acting like their NS2 large mod is "hidden" under sub menu after sub menu, where nobody could ever dream of finding them unless they came onto the forums first.. This is utter nonsense as they are right there in plain sight at the top of the server list..
We've been over this Mofo1, and funnily enough you didn't reply last time.
If this is the case then you won't mind if we swap them around, with large servers by default and small servers moved to a new tab.
If you agree, then lets do it.
If you disagree, then you've lost your own argument -- and can stop posting such nonsense.
Apparently you haven't learned. So here it is, again:
If it's no big deal, lets switch them.
Clearly pushing servers to a non-default tab doesn't mean anything. Therefore UWE should have no problem listing Large as default, and small under its own tab.
Ok just for the sake of argument, lets say UWE puts NS2 large back into the NS2 list where it does not belong.
Now I hate NS2 large due to the horrible performance and cluster**** gameplay. It doesn't effect me because thankfully the vast majority of the community plays on smaller servers, but I hate the change all the same because now I have to sift through the large servers...
Just add the option to filter by server size. So everyone can just type in the amount he prefers. No need to make a mandatory arbitrary hiding of servers over 24 players, just let everyone individually decide how he wants to filter the default all-including server list.
So I turn around and leave a review that goes something like this... "Don't buy this game! The developers are corrupt and don't support their community in any way shape or form. They have killed this game by forcing people to play a horribly broken game mod"
Clearly that is not an accurate review, yet that is exactly what these large players are doing.
This was the state for (as someone else mentioned) 983 days and reviews were fine.
UWE has supported NS2 large servers to an insane extent, FAR more than any other developer would that's for certain!
This is great and we appreciate that. But you don't collect "niceness" credits which you can then spend to be an ass once in a while. If you act like an ass expect to receive the adequate feedback. Apart from that iirc this game was advertised with huge mod support, and then there's the goodwill one could expect from a company that spawned from a mod itself.
They did not shut them down
They worked on optimizing the game specifically for large servers
They removed the player count so the servers don't need to run a hacked .exe file
They marked large as it's own game mode
That's 3 things right there that were done specifically to support the large community, and 1 thing to support the entire community as a whole.
Yet we now see large players leaving reviews like "Don't buy this game. The developers are corrupt and don't support their community at all. The latest update has hidden the most popular game mode, screwing over everyone who plays their game."
Now this entire review is nothing but blatant lies. The developers are not corrupt and support this game (is any other game this old still receiving this much support?) The latest update did not hide hide anything, and large is far from being the most popular game mode. Not one person is screwed over either as they are easily able to happily continue playing the game on their favorite large servers.. Yet they leave a review like that and you people are saying it's ok?
Large players are acting like their NS2 large mod is "hidden" under sub menu after sub menu, where nobody could ever dream of finding them unless they came onto the forums first.. This is utter nonsense as they are right there in plain sight at the top of the server list..
Picking apart a single review isn't going to change the fact that there if there is a significant amount of them, you better listen to the feedback or get rekt.
For anyone to suggest that their NS2 large servers are "hidden" is exactly like saying "people can't filter out empty servers because the option is "hidden" UWE is screwing the community by forcing us to sift through empty servers!"
People are bitching about it being ON by default, not about the general possibility of additional filters.
No, the changes itself were mostly good for the gameplay and / or long demanded features. Some have barely influence on gameplay (e.g. tutorials, sticky-shoes, skins), some are disputable and need more refinement (e.g. healthbar, power-surge, dissolve).
Compmod and NS2+ has / had a problem with weekly updates, because they have a harder time keeping up with potential mod breaking changes.
We are going around in circles. I'm going to ignore your future posts until you start using logic. If the changes were good, where do the unique, unfakable negative steam reviews come from?
If the changes are so good, how can such a significant number of bad reviews happen?
If your server is so hidden, why it is full most of time?
You may see our main server (Wooza's Playground) is full from EU night time. This is true yes. Nonetheless the server are not as full as they used to be. The server also get emptied much faster and seeding takes mostly 2-3 hours till the server is full.
The other server, Wooza's Hamster Wheel remains mostly empty but was for over a year full every evening for at least 4Hours.
The regulars from Wooza's Hamster Wheel joining now Wooza's Playground so we have at least one full server. Before we had some people liking 21vs21 action, and others that liked 16vs16. To answer your observations
Large players are acting like their NS2 large mod is "hidden" under sub menu after sub menu, where nobody could ever dream of finding them unless they came onto the forums first.. This is utter nonsense as they are right there in plain sight at the top of the server list..
We've been over this Mofo1, and funnily enough you didn't reply last time.
If this is the case then you won't mind if we swap them around, with large servers by default and small servers moved to a new tab.
If you agree, then lets do it.
If you disagree, then you've lost your own argument -- and can stop posting such nonsense.
Apparently you haven't learned. So here it is, again:
If it's no big deal, lets switch them.
Clearly pushing servers to a non-default tab doesn't mean anything. Therefore UWE should have no problem listing Large as default, and small under its own tab.
I eagerly await the next patch with this change.
You're mixing up "hidden" vs. "being equally * promoted as is if it was (vanilla) NS2". If ns2large was hidden, noone could play it. You could also classify "being hard to access" as "hiding". This is not the case. It's certainly not impossible or hard joining a ns2large server.
Now that ns2Large is not "equally promoted as if it was (vanilla) NS2", you might get slightly less people playing. Exactly those that were unjustly siphoned off 12 - 24 servers.
* or even more promoted because it was at the top of the server list.
dePARAJoin Date: 2011-04-29Member: 96321Members, Squad Five Blue
So while the game is constantly losing players you make drama based on the fact that your 2nd server isnt full anymore?
Other communitys have to deal also with this problem.
An they have more problems to seed a smal size server in times of low playercounts with an 42 slot vacuumer.
In times of 600-700 players everyone has enough servers with different sizes to choose.
But the lower the playercount, the lesser the options.
And dont tell me "everyone has the free will to join or not to join'"
If someone wants to play and has only the ns2large option and a 24 slot server, he can choose to join or to quit the game.
Seeding is normal for every server and also that a server can lose players very quickly so you need to reseed them.
Cant count the hrs where i was doing it.
So please stop acting like you are somewhat special.
Looks like the last change did it right to bring your server to the same level compared to other communitys.
Now that ns2Large is not "equally promoted as if it was (vanilla) NS2", you might get slightly less people playing. Exactly those that were unjustly siphoned off 12 - 24 servers.
Again there's this weird perspective that NS2 players are mindless robots. That you can force them where you want them to go, rather than where they want to go.
This is not theory. This is not opinion. And since those posts the server stats bear it out even more -- 'siphoning' does not exist. Players have preference -- small, or large. Making large servers harder to find/access/etc does not magically fill small servers. Some may switch, lacking their preference -- meaning given the choice, they wouldn't -- but we lose much more. We're 1/6 of the player base down on average since 294.
This is simply fact.
Also fact: since Woozas returned, our overall active playerbase has increased. Also fact: Since 294 -- almost a month -- the single largest spike of active players was when there were three large servers active over the usual two.
So, enough. Round and round and round we go, the same silly arguments put forth -- but we actually have stats now to prove it. This is what we found:
Some people prefer small, some people prefer large
Some people will play both, some play only one or the other
The NS2 community is at its largest with large servers active
The NS2 community is at its smallest with large servers absent
There is only one -- honestly, just one -- action that has to be taken: promote both small and large equally. Attempting to reduce one to grow the other does not work. The experiment has failed. It's time to acknowledge this and fix the mistake.
This makes me hate you even more, YOU are not NS2, you never have, and you never will be.
What you are doing to this game is only damaging it even more, by getting your so called "community" to leave bad reviews on a game that they are still playing, and still enjoying, all over 1 little change.
To me its little, to you it is huge game breaking change, but making others leave bad reviews BASED ON YOUR OPINION is an utter joke, did you not say that your servers where down right at the time of this update due to ddosing? so any charts or players wont matter as the servers where not even up?
And even now they are full nearly all the time during peak hours.
I get that some of these reviews maybe justifed. But i have had 2 friends not buy this game based on those reviews. So good job. Well done.
So while the game is constantly losing players you make drama based on the fact that your 2nd server isnt full anymore?
Other communitys have to deal also with this problem.
The drama was started by the developers excluding servers from the default browser. Now them and the people supporting that are whining about the feedback they received for that.
There is clear aggressor here, and that are not the mod communities.
An they have more problems to seed a smal size server in times of low playercounts with an 42 slot vacuumer.
In times of 600-700 players everyone has enough servers with different sizes to choose.
But the lower the playercount, the lesser the options.
And dont tell me "everyone has the free will to join or not to join'"
If someone wants to play and has only the ns2large option and a 24 slot server, he can choose to join or to quit the game.
How about seeding then? If people aren't joining small servers despite them being in the default server tab, then I got some tough news for you: They don't like them.
So please stop acting like you are somewhat special.
Looks like the last change did it right to bring your server to the same level compared to other communitys.
The only correct change would be to include each and every server in the default tab in a random order and add some more filters for the players to use. Problem solved, let popularity decide which game modes are going to be played, not an arbitrary hiding of a couple of servers.
You should not be able to write anything here @MoFo1 . Not even Depara is that mean and spreading so much wrong information than you!
Yeah right, while you contradict yourself on a regular basis, spread misleading information and lies, and encourage your community to harm the game in a way that will ensure less players for ALL servers (including yours!)
I especially like how you went on for DAYS about UWE's change making your server empty, only to later admit that it was really empty because of a ddos'ing loser. Then to reverse that again and claim the ddos'ing loser was part of some conspiracy..
You claim to want NS2 to grow, yet you encouraged your community to lie in order to harm NS2 and prevent it from growing. I don't remember who posted it but I agree with whoever said you should be banned. You and your server are by far the most toxic aspect of this entire community.
If this is the case then you won't mind if we swap them around, with large servers by default and small servers moved to a new tab.
If you agree, then lets do it.
If you disagree, then you've lost your own argument -- and can stop posting such nonsense.
You know what Martigen.. if small games of NS2 were the "mod" and large was the "vanilla" game I would have no problem whatsoever with small games being excluded from the default list. If large was the vanilla game that would mean the game is designed to be played that way, and the small modded servers would be a different experience.
Unfortunately small games are vanilla NS2 and large is a mod that provides a drastically different experience. Thus if it were reversed like you suggest then any new players would be launched into a mod by default, and that is a HUGE problem.
Likewise if large wasn't in the "all" list, or you had to search through sub-menus or find some option somewhere to enable them, THEN they would be "hidden" and that would be a problem. However large (along with other mods) is blatantly visible at the top of the browser where all but the most oblivious of users can easily find it.
If I preferred large servers and hated small then I would have no problems whatsoever with this change.
If I preferred large servers and hated small then I would have no problems whatsoever with this change.
You absolutely would, I think You've said openly you prefer small and hate large, and have been campaigning against it because you believe that large servers take players away from small (though I've proven this not a concern, so you don't have to worry). If you preferred large, you'd be campaigning for large seeing what we see, that the server browser change making small the 'default' has detracted from large servers. Just an observation.
I also really don't believe you've posted what you've posted because you care what classifies a 'mod' or not. NS2 wouldn't have come to be without mods (NS1), and wouldn't exist as it does now without mods (NS2+, and all the changes NS2 now owes to NS2+). Suddenly drawing a line here at player count is illogical.
Two more things bear saying:
The server change was ostensibly to filter rookies into small servers.
However, I don't see any evidence (at least publicly) that rookies were asked what they want.
Indeed, in the recent threads, all the rookies who posted said they preferred Large. If we were genuinely making changes to encourage rookies, wouldn't we be shuffling to Large to encourage them to stay? Wouldn't we be delivering them the game they want to play, rather than what we think they should be playing?
Which kind of leads to...
Maybe it's time to consider that gaming habits have changed since NS2 launched, and large games -- on the whole -- are a more popular gameplay style than small.
We've hit a ceiling on traditional players. Perhaps the people we're attracting today, some at least, prefer large gameplay styles.
This means if we want to compete in today's environment and attract and keep players, we need to build a game they want to play. Yes, that might be a different NS2 than where the game started. But the choices are (more than likely) adapt and grow, or not and slowly die (which we are, at the moment, hence the heated debates).
Sadly I see a lot of people in here who would prefer NS2 to die than evolve. Which is... not consistent with the game's name. C'est la vie.
Comments
Do you really expect anyone to take this seriously? Compare player numbers of said games with ns2 and then think again, whats different about these games' and ns2s' server browser. Mod-seggregation may work when there's enough players like in Dota 2 (millions) but it does NOT work with low player numbers in the hundreds like ns2 has.
Also divert from making personal insults i.e. "paranoid dude". Not helping to prove your point.
377 players on saturday night , here we go .
Your better than putting words in my mouth. Act like it. If you can't to that do NS2 a favor and resign from your position you are embarassing.
Firstly, there is more than one ns2-community that has been deeply pissed off by the developers actions.
Secondly, if the amount of people pissed of is so high, that the feedback that happens to spill off into Steam reviews (remember, most people post on these forums first, others like me haven't even written a review yet) manages to give the game a mixed rating, then yes, the developer is killing the game with their changes, and they should take responsibility for their actions. Either they are going to apologize and amend or fix the bad changes, or they are going to keep them like a stubborn little child and be proud of sinking the ship. In the last case, the developer and the game deserves to die - the community did their best to make the developer aware of the negative impact of the changes.
But this is not the point. As I said earlier, changes should be done, but they should also be reverted if they suck. A big part of being human is the ability to learn from mistakes, even mistakes someone else did. UWE hasn't learned from other developers mistakes, but they still have the chance to learn from their own.
Large servers are not killing small servers. No one is saying Large is the only way to play, no one is forcing anyone to play Large. People play where they want to play. If small servers are dying, it reflects on small server gameplay, does it not?
And the idea that you can 'force' people who enjoy large games to play on small servers is the height of ignorance. You can't control how people play the game -- it's up to them, not you. @2Onos1Gorge is right: either you make the game they want to play and prosper, or you don't and won't.
We have two communities: small and large. You know how to make this game grow? Promote both.
If the changes are so good, how can such a significant number of bad reviews happen?
you cant compare those games with ns2 right now because those games have a ridiculous amount of players
also the server browsers arent the same
also those didnt change or atleast dramatically change the mods/map features or whatever
as for counterstrike you can still play as always surf maps the same way
as for starcraft 2 you can still play the same way the maps with its key features
also if they had the same amount of players the developers would have made different decisions therefore different mistakes different problems
you should just focus on this game unless you find features of other games that could be suggested to be added to the game made specifically to ns2
although this game is slowly getting outdated as time passes... we are in 2016 what will await us in the next years?
Conspiracy theories sound like picture book paranoia to me. He probably thinks that UWE wants to destroy his servers and seeks signs of this in every patch, conveniently ignoring updates that help his servers.
Problem is that to some people anything that is good or could be good for small servers is by defintion bad for large servers.
So should ns2Large ppl not be allowed to make reviews? As I mentioned in my first post which got censored, people like you that think they know what's better for other people.
If UWE supports this kind of opinion they should just shut down all mods immediately that aren't allowed to make reviews.
Also, what is wrong about promoting reviews? They are still unique, not fakable and not censorable. Noone can force people to make negative reviews, so it is a legit source of information. That's why Steam reviews have such an impact in the first place, some officials said sales are going to plummet.
Please decide once and for all what is true in your worldview and stick with that story: Either the reviews are very important and have a high enough credibility, which stems from not being able to be faked and censored, to affect sales, then they should be taken seriously. Or all those negative reviews are fake, but then again noone would give Steam reviews credibility if that were the fact and then we can stop talking about them in here as they wouldn't affect sales in that case.
We all know the first story is true. You are doing NS2 a disservice by trying to discredit the feedback, instead of encouraging the developer to act in response to it.
That guys biggest gripe is that now his server is not at the top of the server list anymore, but one click away at specifically named tab (and only once, because the choice is saved). Something that could be even beneficial for other mods.
Note that what the other mods - like compmod - critizised is the update frequency, which does hardly affect ns2large.
Now I hate NS2 large due to the horrible performance and cluster**** gameplay. It doesn't effect me because thankfully the vast majority of the community plays on smaller servers, but I hate the change all the same because now I have to sift through the large servers...
So I turn around and leave a review that goes something like this... "Don't buy this game! The developers are corrupt and don't support their community in any way shape or form. They have killed this game by forcing people to play a horribly broken game mod"
Clearly that is not an accurate review, yet that is exactly what these large players are doing.
UWE has supported NS2 large servers to an insane extent, FAR more than any other developer would that's for certain!
They did not shut them down
They worked on optimizing the game specifically for large servers
They removed the player count so the servers don't need to run a hacked .exe file
They marked large as it's own game mode
That's 3 things right there that were done specifically to support the large community, and 1 thing to support the entire community as a whole.
Yet we now see large players leaving reviews like "Don't buy this game. The developers are corrupt and don't support their community at all. The latest update has hidden the most popular game mode, screwing over everyone who plays their game."
Now this entire review is nothing but blatant lies. The developers are not corrupt and support this game (is any other game this old still receiving this much support?) The latest update did not hide hide anything, and large is far from being the most popular game mode. Not one person is screwed over either as they are easily able to happily continue playing the game on their favorite large servers.. Yet they leave a review like that and you people are saying it's ok?
Large players are acting like their NS2 large mod is "hidden" under sub menu after sub menu, where nobody could ever dream of finding them unless they came onto the forums first.. This is utter nonsense as they are right there in plain sight at the top of the server list..
For anyone to suggest that their NS2 large servers are "hidden" is exactly like saying "people can't filter out empty servers because the option is "hidden" UWE is screwing the community by forcing us to sift through empty servers!"
I find it sad that the developer makes changes that piss several ns2-communities off. Now let's see what was there first - poorly executed changes, or the bad reviews?
Right.
No need to be sad about feedback - one should be glad about feedback.
The server browser changes might have been beneficial in a already large and further growing environment. In the current circumstances of a receding playerbase they are out of place and just kill everything that is not vanilla ns2.
This even more supports my point that the developers in the recent timeframe pushed changes that were poorly thought out, as they managed to accomplish to piss off two different communities with two different updates.
Or you could just stop discrediting unique, unfakable opinions, then noone would have a reason to call your behaviour out for what it is: fascist.
Other servers profits the same way as "NS2Large". Populated community servers with 24 or less slots got an performance boost as well, ask any other Server OP.
This improvement should have been done anyway, we have just highlighted the problem.
This was done by a dev with a neutral opinion regarding 24+ servers. That was mainly done for custom game modes so that those modders have no limit. It has nothing to do with NS2Large primary We are no game mode. We are Woozas. We are NS2.
You should not be able to write anything here @MoFo1 . Not even Depara is that mean and spreading so much wrong information than you!
Compmod and NS2+ has / had a problem with weekly updates, because they have a harder time keeping up with potential mod breaking changes.
You are a game mode. Your part of NS2 but only one part from many. The same as other modification are part of the whole of what makes NS2. Get down from your high horse.
If your server is so hidden, why it is full most of time?
Here it is again: Apparently you haven't learned. So here it is, again:
If it's no big deal, lets switch them.
Clearly pushing servers to a non-default tab doesn't mean anything. Therefore UWE should have no problem listing Large as default, and small under its own tab.
I eagerly await the next patch with this change.
Just add the option to filter by server size. So everyone can just type in the amount he prefers. No need to make a mandatory arbitrary hiding of servers over 24 players, just let everyone individually decide how he wants to filter the default all-including server list.
This was the state for (as someone else mentioned) 983 days and reviews were fine.
This is great and we appreciate that. But you don't collect "niceness" credits which you can then spend to be an ass once in a while. If you act like an ass expect to receive the adequate feedback. Apart from that iirc this game was advertised with huge mod support, and then there's the goodwill one could expect from a company that spawned from a mod itself.
Picking apart a single review isn't going to change the fact that there if there is a significant amount of them, you better listen to the feedback or get rekt.
People are bitching about it being ON by default, not about the general possibility of additional filters.
We are going around in circles. I'm going to ignore your future posts until you start using logic. If the changes were good, where do the unique, unfakable negative steam reviews come from?
You may see our main server (Wooza's Playground) is full from EU night time. This is true yes. Nonetheless the server are not as full as they used to be. The server also get emptied much faster and seeding takes mostly 2-3 hours till the server is full.
The other server, Wooza's Hamster Wheel remains mostly empty but was for over a year full every evening for at least 4Hours.
The regulars from Wooza's Hamster Wheel joining now Wooza's Playground so we have at least one full server. Before we had some people liking 21vs21 action, and others that liked 16vs16. To answer your observations
You're mixing up "hidden" vs. "being equally * promoted as is if it was (vanilla) NS2". If ns2large was hidden, noone could play it. You could also classify "being hard to access" as "hiding". This is not the case. It's certainly not impossible or hard joining a ns2large server.
Now that ns2Large is not "equally promoted as if it was (vanilla) NS2", you might get slightly less people playing. Exactly those that were unjustly siphoned off 12 - 24 servers.
* or even more promoted because it was at the top of the server list.
UWE might be getting a slight amount of negative reviews.
Other communitys have to deal also with this problem.
An they have more problems to seed a smal size server in times of low playercounts with an 42 slot vacuumer.
In times of 600-700 players everyone has enough servers with different sizes to choose.
But the lower the playercount, the lesser the options.
And dont tell me "everyone has the free will to join or not to join'"
If someone wants to play and has only the ns2large option and a 24 slot server, he can choose to join or to quit the game.
Seeding is normal for every server and also that a server can lose players very quickly so you need to reseed them.
Cant count the hrs where i was doing it.
So please stop acting like you are somewhat special.
Looks like the last change did it right to bring your server to the same level compared to other communitys.
It does not work that way.
And here we are again.
This is not theory. This is not opinion. And since those posts the server stats bear it out even more -- 'siphoning' does not exist. Players have preference -- small, or large. Making large servers harder to find/access/etc does not magically fill small servers. Some may switch, lacking their preference -- meaning given the choice, they wouldn't -- but we lose much more. We're 1/6 of the player base down on average since 294.
This is simply fact.
Also fact: since Woozas returned, our overall active playerbase has increased.
Also fact: Since 294 -- almost a month -- the single largest spike of active players was when there were three large servers active over the usual two.
So, enough. Round and round and round we go, the same silly arguments put forth -- but we actually have stats now to prove it. This is what we found:
There is only one -- honestly, just one -- action that has to be taken: promote both small and large equally. Attempting to reduce one to grow the other does not work. The experiment has failed. It's time to acknowledge this and fix the mistake.
@Flayra, it's time. Enough is enough.
@dePARA
The impact of the server browser change, demonstrated on "Woozas Hamster Wheel".
Edit: Picture taken on the 9th of May 2016
Source:
http://www.gametracker.com/server_info/apheriox.dyndns.org:27017/
This makes me hate you even more, YOU are not NS2, you never have, and you never will be.
What you are doing to this game is only damaging it even more, by getting your so called "community" to leave bad reviews on a game that they are still playing, and still enjoying, all over 1 little change.
To me its little, to you it is huge game breaking change, but making others leave bad reviews BASED ON YOUR OPINION is an utter joke, did you not say that your servers where down right at the time of this update due to ddosing? so any charts or players wont matter as the servers where not even up?
And even now they are full nearly all the time during peak hours.
I get that some of these reviews maybe justifed. But i have had 2 friends not buy this game based on those reviews. So good job. Well done.
The drama was started by the developers excluding servers from the default browser. Now them and the people supporting that are whining about the feedback they received for that.
There is clear aggressor here, and that are not the mod communities.
How about seeding then? If people aren't joining small servers despite them being in the default server tab, then I got some tough news for you: They don't like them.
The only correct change would be to include each and every server in the default tab in a random order and add some more filters for the players to use. Problem solved, let popularity decide which game modes are going to be played, not an arbitrary hiding of a couple of servers.
They must have agreed with us. Say them thank you for reading the reviews.
Yeah right, while you contradict yourself on a regular basis, spread misleading information and lies, and encourage your community to harm the game in a way that will ensure less players for ALL servers (including yours!)
I especially like how you went on for DAYS about UWE's change making your server empty, only to later admit that it was really empty because of a ddos'ing loser. Then to reverse that again and claim the ddos'ing loser was part of some conspiracy..
You claim to want NS2 to grow, yet you encouraged your community to lie in order to harm NS2 and prevent it from growing. I don't remember who posted it but I agree with whoever said you should be banned. You and your server are by far the most toxic aspect of this entire community.
You know what Martigen.. if small games of NS2 were the "mod" and large was the "vanilla" game I would have no problem whatsoever with small games being excluded from the default list. If large was the vanilla game that would mean the game is designed to be played that way, and the small modded servers would be a different experience.
Unfortunately small games are vanilla NS2 and large is a mod that provides a drastically different experience. Thus if it were reversed like you suggest then any new players would be launched into a mod by default, and that is a HUGE problem.
Likewise if large wasn't in the "all" list, or you had to search through sub-menus or find some option somewhere to enable them, THEN they would be "hidden" and that would be a problem. However large (along with other mods) is blatantly visible at the top of the browser where all but the most oblivious of users can easily find it.
If I preferred large servers and hated small then I would have no problems whatsoever with this change.
The free market working as intended.
Developer poorly executes changes -> internal feedback gets censored and closed -> feedback spills into external high credibility environment -> company loses money
The chain of cause and effect is pretty simple and absolutely working as it should.
I just hope a moderator will remove all the naming and shaming from certain peoples.
At least @_INTER_ did not mention any names, ty for respecting the forum rules
I also really don't believe you've posted what you've posted because you care what classifies a 'mod' or not. NS2 wouldn't have come to be without mods (NS1), and wouldn't exist as it does now without mods (NS2+, and all the changes NS2 now owes to NS2+). Suddenly drawing a line here at player count is illogical.
Two more things bear saying:
However, I don't see any evidence (at least publicly) that rookies were asked what they want.
Indeed, in the recent threads, all the rookies who posted said they preferred Large. If we were genuinely making changes to encourage rookies, wouldn't we be shuffling to Large to encourage them to stay? Wouldn't we be delivering them the game they want to play, rather than what we think they should be playing?
Which kind of leads to...
We've hit a ceiling on traditional players. Perhaps the people we're attracting today, some at least, prefer large gameplay styles.
This means if we want to compete in today's environment and attract and keep players, we need to build a game they want to play. Yes, that might be a different NS2 than where the game started. But the choices are (more than likely) adapt and grow, or not and slowly die (which we are, at the moment, hence the heated debates).
Sadly I see a lot of people in here who would prefer NS2 to die than evolve. Which is... not consistent with the game's name. C'est la vie.