No, ofcourse you are not exlpoiting... Flayra will fix hitboxes, im sure.. If not, i hope it won't be many loosers that whine about marines that walk inside vents.
Ok, speaking as one of the people on the other side of this, it's not cheating to kill skulks in vents. I even stated this in the game. You, RPTheHotRod, on the other hand are mis-representing yourself. You proclaimed that since no skulk could get near you, you weren't abusing any known bug. You never left that vent and just argued with eveyone all game. If I use the skin hack and run around the whole map but not kill anyone am I still cheating? If I install OGC and use wall hacks, am I still cheating even though there is Motion Tracking? You sir were quite lame in that game.
I could have easily kick/banned him but I didn't. <i>Technically</i>, he wasn't cheating, so I had no recourse. He was rather lame hiding in that vent all game, but sadly, lame isn't a crime. Lamers like him are few and far between. He just sat in that vent all game, fiercely defending his "not cheating". Hopefully he won't bother us on our sever anymore
<!--QuoteBegin--CForrester+Jan 13 2003, 09:42 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CForrester @ Jan 13 2003, 09:42 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--Y3ti+Jan 12 2003, 10:46 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Y3ti @ Jan 12 2003, 10:46 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I would actually say that you were exploiting, just for one reason, you keep goign in the vents.
Now given, that, yes they should of learned, but they didn't, you should try and keep out of vents becuase of this bug.. IMHO<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Ah, so now Marines are not allowed to go in vents and kill skulks on the other end? No, he is not exploiting. Sorry. I don't mind Marines in vents because if you hit low, they still get hurt.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Note, IMHO
Note, if you knwo a bug, you should try to advoid it.
Given, that yes. you may have to go through a vent to get to a area.
<!--QuoteBegin--Anime Tentacle Monster+Jan 12 2003, 02:23 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Anime Tentacle Monster @ Jan 12 2003, 02:23 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->noob, I hate that word now
its worse to call someone a noob than to say....well what can we say on this censored board?
the two worst by products of FPS gaming the word noob and the entier L33t speak language<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> AMEN! no j/k agree wholeheartedly
<!--QuoteBegin--MMZ>Torak+Jan 13 2003, 11:57 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MMZ>Torak @ Jan 13 2003, 11:57 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Ok, speaking as one of the people on the other side of this, it's not cheating to kill skulks in vents. I even stated this in the game. You, RPTheHotRod, on the other hand are mis-representing yourself. You proclaimed that since no skulk could get near you, you weren't abusing any known bug. You never left that vent and just argued with eveyone all game. If I use the skin hack and run around the whole map but not kill anyone am I still cheating? If I install OGC and use wall hacks, am I still cheating even though there is Motion Tracking? You sir were quite lame in that game.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Are you sure? He says he just got in when he saw an alien coming and unless you were watching from spec (which you said you weren't) then you really can't say he wasn't just guarding it when an alien came by unless his teammates told you he was. Even if he defended from that vent the whole game, it isn't "lame". It's a good position to stay in to defend that hive if you don't have any kind of support both to kill any skulk that normally would surprise you by coming out of that vent and also a good place to hide if some gorge decides to waddle in and try and put up defenses. In addition, there is another vent network on the other end of the engine hive long before any place he could be watching the left vent network from. Even without hitbox issues (which aren't *that* bad except for a couple vents), yes, he'd be hard to kill. You're going to get upset with him for trying to stay alive and defend a hive on his own in the best way possible by using a tactical area on the map?
Now if he was a jerk in addition to this, then yeah, he's a jerk. That doesn't excuse your team of the fact that no one had the brains to use at least a few different options to kill him. But guarding Engine from the vent isn't "lame", I'd have applauded him as commander if he'd held that hive on his own by doing that. He obviously was helping his team as well seeing as just he alone was able to keep you from taking that hive. You're examples are worthless. Both wall hacks and the skin bug are obviously not intended for the game, a marine in a vent obviously *is*. Do you have that "no siege the hive" rule as well?
I think any Marines in a vent are exploiting BUT!!!!! I also think until the hitbox issues are fixed we are just gonna have to live with it. What are ya gonna do? Make a "NO MARINES IN VENT" rule? Well that doesnt seem right. For now the Khaara are just gonna have to live with the borked Marine kneel hitboxes.
If a marine only chooses to engage skulks from a vent, a place he knows is not going to allow a skulk a fair fight due to the crouch bug, it is lame and pretty damn close to an exploit. He insisted that he was not cheating because (his words) <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I am using a ranged weapon and they can't get close to me so therefore I am not abusing an exploit.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I didn't call him a cheater, or a hacker, or an exploiter. I didn't kick him, ban him, admin_slap, or admin_slay him because I am not a sore loser or abusive admin. What I did do was tell him that his actions were lame. He did however (and by his own admission) run into the vent everytime a skulk came near him. If that isn't borderline bug exploit, than I'm not sure what is. Simply because the bug did not come into play because of the advantage that marines have with a ranged weapon, does not mean he wasn't abusing the hitbox issue. Should a skulk have gotten close enough to him, the likely hood of killing him was slim.
<!--QuoteBegin--MMZ>Torak+Jan 14 2003, 07:06 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MMZ>Torak @ Jan 14 2003, 07:06 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If a marine only chooses to engage skulks from a vent, a place he knows is not going to allow a skulk a fair fight due to the crouch bug...
...He did however (and by his own admission) run into the vent everytime a skulk came near him...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Crouch bug or not, the Skulk is still not going to have a fair fight, and that is the idea, the same as a skulk hiding above a doorway, not 'fair' for the marine that walks past. Following the same idea, a Skulk will usually hide when he hears a marine coming, I wouldn't class either tactic as lame, bug or not.
If all you people that whine about hitbox bugs would just figure it out, we would have no more "hitbox problem".
When you crouch as a marine, your hitboxes all move down, with your body. They shouldn't move down, they should just get smaller. But they move down anyway, you can't do a thing about it. Solution?
Move your head outta their face and put it at their legs. I chew through Marines in vents all the time like this, as long as I can make it to them.
There were a number of options you could have taken to kill him, why you didn't is beyond me. He was serving a highly important purpose to his team so if he used an area that made it hard to reach him, more power to him. Besides, I've killed people, been killed, and watched plenty of my marines die as comm in that particular vent at engine, it's a rather high vent so the hitbox bug isn't much of a problem. What is a problem is that it's long and narrow so skulks have a hard time *reaching* a marine and that seems to be what you're truly complaining about. What is "lame" is that you're bitching at some guy for using a valid tactic instead of using some counter to kill him. Here's a hint, there's another vent network on the other side of Engine and here's another hint, think "ranged".
Did you even read what I posted? I didn't say he was lame for picking an adventageous spot for himself. I did say he was lame for "hiding crouched in a vent were he knew it was exceedingly difficult for him to be killed by a skulk" and proclaiming that because no skulk could get near him he wasn't abusing the hit box bug. That is sophistry. This guy was a disturbance on the server with his constant message spam, and his continual affirmations of the aforementioned non-abuse of a known bug. Here's a hint, get all the facts. There were plenty of other people on the server that thought this guy was an ****. All I know is that should he pop up on our server again I will be sure to kick him, simply because I can and I don't like him.
<!--QuoteBegin--AznKnuckles+Jan 12 2003, 12:53 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AznKnuckles @ Jan 12 2003, 12:53 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->God i hate nubs who accuse people of cheating when thye just have like a year of experience omfg nubies <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> You have a year of NS experience? You must have got a REALLY early beta.
So are you saying that you're upset because he was a jerk and that was acting like a jerk because he started letting spamming about how well he was doing in the vent? If that's what you meant, then I agree with you. Him actually being in there should be irrelevent to how "lame" he is however.
I wasn't spamming...but 3 of the aliens were constantly spamming saying I was cheating
Second...
I never stayed in the vent. I was in the MIDDLE of the room watching the door and both vents with motion tracking. If I saw an alien heading towards a vent, I ran into the vent and shot him before he could get close.
Third...
I never EVER ran AWAY from an alien by running in a vent. That's an exploit...and exploits is what ruin games. I hate cheaters, and I'd never use an exploit like this. It's cheap, and wrong.
Fourth...
You say I was ALWAYS in the vent, yet...you weren't in spectator mode, and I was alone in that room for nearly the entire round. So, you run through the vent and there I am...killing you. yeah, I saw you on motion tracking so i beat you to the vent.
Fifth... I wasn't being a jerk. 3 of you kept complaining about me "cheating". I just kept saying I wasn't. If none of you ever said anything, I wouldn't have replied to anything
Sixth... I never bragged or said "how well I was doing in the vent" I never even "taunt" anyone after a kill. Again, they said I was cheating, I just kept replying (everytime they complained about it) that I wasn't. I have no idea why they kept going into the same vent over and over and over. It's their fault...not mine.
Seventh... I WAS killable in the vent anyway. Even if I WAS (which i wasn't) abusing an exploit, you could still kill me as easily as before...so what's the point of your argument?
Eight... Someone said that I was cheating because I was "unkillable" if they got too close. See number 7. Also, I said you couldn't get close enough to even try since I have a RANGED weapon. It wasn't bragging. It's just like saying "If I could teleport to you in real life and try to kick you in the nuts, but you're in a football uniform...I couldn't hurt you." Well, ahem, who cares, because you CAN'T magically teleport to me.
Why didn't the skulks just team up? one to distract you in the vents, another one to slap you wth 3-4 Parasites and then rush you while you were busy looking?
What he did was perfectly fair because a skulk can do a good bit of damage with parasite in the vents since P has perfect accuracy and the hitboxes are relatively low and easy to aim at with P.
Poor Skulks, they couldn't work together so of course your *exploiting*
Well... Not adding very much to the discussion but:
It's not too difficult to kill a marine in a vent, just aim low (I always do) and be sure to have him parasited. It makes them nervous <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> Also chuckle a few times and wait a bit just to make him know you're there and he gets all jumpy <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> If one skulk had just stayed there instead of trying to rush, then others could have taken engine easily. Just because a skulk is made for attack doesn't mean he should ALWAYS rush.
Sounds good to me <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
And I realized my summary wasn't what he meant anyway. Quote 1:
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I did say he was lame for "hiding crouched in a vent were he knew it was exceedingly difficult for him to be killed by a skulk"<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What you said was wrong and immature. It completely contradicts your previous sentence here:
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I didn't say he was lame for picking an adventageous spot for himself.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Picking an advantageous spot and picking a spot where it's very hard to kill him are the same thing and this is *without* the hitbox bug which is again, not noticable in that vent.
This quote killed any credibility you had by reminding us of your immature nature:
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->All I know is that should he pop up on our server again I will be sure to kick him, simply because I can and I don't like him. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What's the IP to your server? I'm curious what other rules your motd has.
Ok, so three different skulks were complaining the about how he was exploiting a bug... why not leave him alone, get ANOTHER hive, go fade and rocket him to death? OR since you knew where he was, go lerk and nail his ****?
Here's a good rule of thumb to stop an argument on a server. Either tell both people to shush or tell the instigators to stop whining. Getting angry at the guy defending himself just gives additional fuel to the whiners to continue not only in that game, but any other game where some marine is in a vent or using a siege cannon or a grenade launcher or a jetpack. Or an alien using umbra or acid rocket or tower walls or...you get the picture.
"I didn't call him a cheater, or a hacker, or an exploiter. I didn't kick him, ban him, admin_slap, or admin_slay him because I am not a sore loser or abusive admin."
and now he's going to kick me next time I join because he doesn't "like" me.
Pretty much, he gives wild accusations. I bring it to the forums, and pretty much, a 100% favor on my side (including witnesses on my team. I can have them speak if you wish). Instead of acknowledging he was wrong...he goes into "freak-out" mode and just says "I'm gonna just kick him next time, cuz I can...so THERE" type of attitude. I'd expect an admin like this in Counter-Strike, but not so soon in Natural Selection.
Sad, truly sad. People holding grudges about nothing are one of the things that ruin online gaming these days.
Comments
Flayra will fix hitboxes, im sure.. If not, i hope it won't be many loosers that whine about marines that walk inside vents.
Now given, that, yes they should of learned, but they didn't, you should try and keep out of vents becuase of this bug.. IMHO<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ah, so now Marines are not allowed to go in vents and kill skulks on the other end? No, he is not exploiting. Sorry. I don't mind Marines in vents because if you hit low, they still get hurt.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Note, IMHO
Note, if you knwo a bug, you should try to advoid it.
Given, that yes. you may have to go through a vent to get to a area.
the hitbox + "knife range vs bite range" kinda freaks me out.
its very hard to suck in that a marine can knife a skulk in the vents if he wants to, even if he has full ammo.
not a bug exploit, due to the way he played.
its worse to call someone a noob than to say....well what can we say on this censored board?
the two worst by products of FPS gaming the word noob and the entier L33t speak language<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
AMEN! no j/k agree wholeheartedly
Are you sure? He says he just got in when he saw an alien coming and unless you were watching from spec (which you said you weren't) then you really can't say he wasn't just guarding it when an alien came by unless his teammates told you he was. Even if he defended from that vent the whole game, it isn't "lame". It's a good position to stay in to defend that hive if you don't have any kind of support both to kill any skulk that normally would surprise you by coming out of that vent and also a good place to hide if some gorge decides to waddle in and try and put up defenses. In addition, there is another vent network on the other end of the engine hive long before any place he could be watching the left vent network from. Even without hitbox issues (which aren't *that* bad except for a couple vents), yes, he'd be hard to kill. You're going to get upset with him for trying to stay alive and defend a hive on his own in the best way possible by using a tactical area on the map?
Now if he was a jerk in addition to this, then yeah, he's a jerk. That doesn't excuse your team of the fact that no one had the brains to use at least a few different options to kill him. But guarding Engine from the vent isn't "lame", I'd have applauded him as commander if he'd held that hive on his own by doing that. He obviously was helping his team as well seeing as just he alone was able to keep you from taking that hive.
You're examples are worthless. Both wall hacks and the skin bug are obviously not intended for the game, a marine in a vent obviously *is*. Do you have that "no siege the hive" rule as well?
...He did however (and by his own admission) run into the vent everytime a skulk came near him...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Crouch bug or not, the Skulk is still not going to have a fair fight, and that is the idea, the same as a skulk hiding above a doorway, not 'fair' for the marine that walks past. Following the same idea, a Skulk will usually hide when he hears a marine coming, I wouldn't class either tactic as lame, bug or not.
When you crouch as a marine, your hitboxes all move down, with your body. They shouldn't move down, they should just get smaller. But they move down anyway, you can't do a thing about it. Solution?
Move your head outta their face and put it at their legs. I chew through Marines in vents all the time like this, as long as I can make it to them.
You have a year of NS experience? You must have got a REALLY early beta.
First...
I wasn't spamming...but 3 of the aliens were constantly spamming saying I was cheating
Second...
I never stayed in the vent. I was in the MIDDLE of the room watching the door and both vents with motion tracking. If I saw an alien heading towards a vent, I ran into the vent and shot him before he could get close.
Third...
I never EVER ran AWAY from an alien by running in a vent. That's an exploit...and exploits is what ruin games. I hate cheaters, and I'd never use an exploit like this. It's cheap, and wrong.
Fourth...
You say I was ALWAYS in the vent, yet...you weren't in spectator mode, and I was alone in that room for nearly the entire round. So, you run through the vent and there I am...killing you. yeah, I saw you on motion tracking so i beat you to the vent.
Fifth...
I wasn't being a jerk. 3 of you kept complaining about me "cheating". I just kept saying I wasn't. If none of you ever said anything, I wouldn't have replied to anything
Sixth...
I never bragged or said "how well I was doing in the vent" I never even "taunt" anyone after a kill. Again, they said I was cheating, I just kept replying (everytime they complained about it) that I wasn't. I have no idea why they kept going into the same vent over and over and over. It's their fault...not mine.
Seventh...
I WAS killable in the vent anyway. Even if I WAS (which i wasn't) abusing an exploit, you could still kill me as easily as before...so what's the point of your argument?
Eight...
Someone said that I was cheating because I was "unkillable" if they got too close. See number 7. Also, I said you couldn't get close enough to even try since I have a RANGED weapon. It wasn't bragging. It's just like saying "If I could teleport to you in real life and try to kick you in the nuts, but you're in a football uniform...I couldn't hurt you." Well, ahem, who cares, because you CAN'T magically teleport to me.
There you have it folks.
What he did was perfectly fair because a skulk can do a good bit of damage with parasite in the vents since P has perfect accuracy and the hitboxes are relatively low and easy to aim at with P.
Poor Skulks, they couldn't work together so of course your *exploiting*
It's not too difficult to kill a marine in a vent, just aim low (I always do) and be sure to have him parasited. It makes them nervous <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> Also chuckle a few times and wait a bit just to make him know you're there and he gets all jumpy <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> If one skulk had just stayed there instead of trying to rush, then others could have taken engine easily. Just because a skulk is made for attack doesn't mean he should ALWAYS rush.
and uhh, he wasn't exploiting, he was kicking some royal alien arse
And I realized my summary wasn't what he meant anyway. Quote 1:
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I did say he was lame for "hiding crouched in a vent were he knew it was exceedingly difficult for him to be killed by a skulk"<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What you said was wrong and immature. It completely contradicts your previous sentence here:
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I didn't say he was lame for picking an adventageous spot for himself.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Picking an advantageous spot and picking a spot where it's very hard to kill him are the same thing and this is *without* the hitbox bug which is again, not noticable in that vent.
This quote killed any credibility you had by reminding us of your immature nature:
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->All I know is that should he pop up on our server again I will be sure to kick him, simply because I can and I don't like him. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What's the IP to your server? I'm curious what other rules your motd has.
"I didn't call him a cheater, or a hacker, or an exploiter. I didn't kick him, ban him, admin_slap, or admin_slay him because I am not a sore loser or abusive admin."
and now he's going to kick me next time I join because he doesn't "like" me.
Pretty much, he gives wild accusations. I bring it to the forums, and pretty much, a 100% favor on my side (including witnesses on my team. I can have them speak if you wish). Instead of acknowledging he was wrong...he goes into "freak-out" mode and just says "I'm gonna just kick him next time, cuz I can...so THERE" type of attitude. I'd expect an admin like this in Counter-Strike, but not so soon in Natural Selection.
Sad, truly sad. People holding grudges about nothing are one of the things that ruin online gaming these days.