People argue for spears. Again, that is #1 clearly a weapon, the only use of which is to kill
Spears are used for spear fishing. You can't catch a fish with your hands you know)
So you show an example where you use a spear to kill? I don't see how you're doing anything but prove the devs point. Its designed to kill things. Spearfishing is killing things. And you can absolutely catch fish with your bare hands. Have you ever heard of noodling?
It isn't killing in a way different than intended however and can be very useful. I always thought it was really weird that to survive you have to catch fish by hand. Spears would alleviate that. So would crabtrap type things. or fishing poles.
The most unfortunate thing about all this is that @flayra is quoted as having been affected by the sandy hook shooting hoax, citing that as a reason to not make another "violent" game. Literally playing right into the hands that would sway him.
Dont believe it's a hoax? Do an ounce of research. The children are all alive and well, seen at the super bowl following the "shooting."
I'm all for logical ways around problems with non-lethal weapons. But the reasons for this move are based on a humongous and elaborate lie, which to me is more far worse thing.
People argue for spears. Again, that is #1 clearly a weapon, the only use of which is to kill. And, frankly, #2 it is pretty boring in a sci fi game with tons of advanced equipment.
Your lack of real world experience with spears is showing. Next you'll be saying the only use for an axe is to cut someone's head off. A spear is a knife on a stick, in its simplest form. Its was (and still is) used as a farming tool in low tech cultures, because it allows you to harvest certain fruits and other plants that are out of reach (above or below you).
What we have given the player in it's place is a propulsion cannon. It does everything a spear can do, and it's way more fun.
Again, your lack of experience with real spears is showing. No, it cannot do everything a spear can do, and it definitely is not 'better' by any stretch of the imagination. It *is* different, and in fact it *is* a muzzle loading rifle. A gun, in a game where you keep saying you don't want any. You even call it a cannon, and apparently don't see the irony of offering it as a substitute for a spear.
The propulsion cannon takes a lot of advanced materials, energy and fabrication technology to make. It consumes batteries, which also take materials, energy, and fabrication technology to make. When the battery dies, it becomes useless weight in your hands or in your inventory. You cannot harvest Acid Mushrooms with it. It offers zero stand off capacity against aggressive wildlife (unless it is small, then I can *pull the deadly monster closer* to me, that's helpful) and is of no use at all against the larger ones. I absolutely would build a spear before a propulsion cannon, and be happier for it. I'd carry one everywhere, because it is so useful, and the propulsion cannon is nothing more than an expensive, rarely useful toy. In game terms, a rifle that can grab a man sized object *at range* and THEN fling it into the air or a solid wall, is *certainly* much more capable of 'massacre' than a knife on a stick, but please continue to tell me that you've made the universe safer by preventing us from making spears.
I won't bother explaining the humor in a statement that "having a spear would be boring in a sci-fi game", where you swim around and collect things to distill into water and scan blueprints to build things. Over, and over, and over again.
'Spear fishing' *shows a heap of images with attractive women who are likely to have no idea about fishing or weaponry (it's likely a photo shoot, that's why, I'm not sexist, I'm aware women can be amazing warriors as well)*
Yeah that sure strengthens your point and doesn't just make you look thirsty lmao.
No Weapons.
Oh and I also have some popcorn left, although I am contributing
'Spear fishing' *shows a heap of images with attractive women who are likely to have no idea about fishing or weaponry (it's likely a photo shoot, that's why, I'm not sexist, I'm aware women can be amazing warriors as well)*
I find photos of male fisherman unattractive
No Weapons.
Best reasoning in history.
Also it clearly shows that you have not read my post.
So you show an example where you use a spear to kill?
You do realize that in order to eat fish you need to kill it first?
Are you PETA?
I'm saying that a spear is designed mainly to kill. I know that as @scubamatt said that it can be used for other things, but as other things can be used a weapons, weapons can be used as other things. Also, this thread was NOT intended to so clearly and aggressively divide people as it has done. I just wanted to show something the devs put in the game that I thought would finally shut people up.
The message states that weapons blueprints were removed from basic survival kit, it does not states weapons were removed from the game on a permanent basis, once the story progresses that may change. Anyway, I once upgraded the seamoth with the shocking upgrade and was surprised to see the impressive amounts of fish it kills at 25% charge. 3 100% charges can kill a sea snake and other medium size predators like the sand shark. Anyway as soon as you get the stasis rifle catching fish gets easy enough so having a spear is in my opinion a waste of development time, since it would only be useful early in the game.
I played and finished Alien Isolation, and even you could have several fire guns you always use them as a last resort, since the alien is completely immune to standard weapons. I only brought this up because this game, just like Alien Isolation is pretty much focused on using your cunning to overcome most obstacles, having powerful weapons in this game would be overkill in my opinion.
Still for those who wish to Pew Pew the Devs could place a Pulse Rifle (non build-able by any other means) somewhere in the wrecks that once retrieved it could be used against some medium size predators, only people really interested in having it could go and retrieve it.
The message states that weapons blueprints were removed from basic survival kit, it does not states weapons were removed from the game on a permanent basis, once the story progresses that may change. Anyway, I once upgraded the seamoth with the shocking upgrade and was surprised to see the impressive amounts of fish it kills at 25% charge. 3 100% charges can kill a sea snake and other medium size predators like the sand shark. Anyway as soon as you get the stasis rifle catching fish gets easy enough so having a spear is in my opinion a waste of development time, since it would only be useful early in the game.
I played and finished Alien Isolation, and even you could have several fire guns you always use them as a last resort, since the alien is completely immune to standard weapons. I only brought this up because this game, just like Alien Isolation is pretty much focused on using your cunning to overcome most obstacles, having powerful weapons in this game would be overkill in my opinion.
Still for those who wish to Pew Pew the Devs could place a Pulse Rifle (non build-able by any other means) somewhere in the wrecks that once retrieved it could be used against some medium size predators, only people really interested in having it could go and retrieve it.
a weapon might be useful late in the game when shoggoths start coming up from the depths and hiding in your base
coming home from a gathering mission to find your base power sabotaged and "things" lurking in the dark
A weapon that is only effective in air might be useful then
Fixing the aurora gives you more modification options as you can access the computer core such as modifying a laser cutter into a short range defense weapon or something
but fixing the aurora also brings "things" up from the deep to investigate you
Only folks realized this is all moot. The sheer amount of time jockeying to be "right". It's a game. There won't be weapons, and we all will still play/test this game.
Only folks realized this is all moot. The sheer amount of time jockeying to be "right". It's a game. There won't be weapons, and we all will still play/test this game.
The "tactical" survival shovel.
Ever read All Quiet on the Western Front? The platoon sergeant weaponized an entrenching tool because the new serrated-edge bayonets were considered cruel and unusual, and earned their owners summary executions at the hands of the enemy when discovered. The sharpened shovel was an expedient modification of a tool for survival purposes.
Any tool can be "weaponized" (as this thread readily proves), because all weapons are tools. As readily evidenced by the knife, cooking fish in the fabricator, bouncing biters off the rocks with the repulsion cannon, and flinging acid mushrooms at anything with the gravity gun.
The SeaMoth is a utility submersible, and I use it to quite gleefully plow through schools of bleeders and biters.
I'm absolutely fine with the dev's stance. Yes, if this were real life, the survivor would figure out basic tools/weapons, or be eaten. That's what humans are good at. We are tool makers. But in this game, it is nice to have to discover new uses for tools because we can't build a spear. It's called "emergent gameplay."
Until just a couple minutes ago reading this thread, I had NO IDEA you could charge up the SeaMoth defensive shock. I've always just used it as a single click discharge, perfectly happy with the short-duration deterrent it provides.
Now I'm going to go gleefully fry schools of bleeders and biters with a fully charged zapper.
Cheers to all of you posters, pundits, flamers, intellectuals, and tools. I love you all. Never change.
We are not "bringing" politics into the game. The game was conceived and designed from the very beginning to be about avoiding the use of lethal weapons as a way of solving problems. If that frustrates you, I'm sorry, but it's not going to change.
But you need to understand that we're not forcing an agenda or pushing politics into a place where it doesn't belong, because of course it belongs here. Every single creative work has a political component to its message, even if it's no more complex than "I am comfortable with the status quo and therefore have nothing I wish to say about it". We've chosen to make a game without lethal weapons because we are interested in exploring those ideas, and because some of us, myself included, weren't very keen on making another game focused on guns and combat.
It's not politically neutral to make a game where your primary mode of interacting with the world is through a weapon; even less so in the case of games like Call of Duty which are largely about solving geopolitical issues through the use of weapons. I'm not saying you can't like that or support that, but I am saying that it's disingenuous to suggest we're forcing politics into a politics-free zone. We're just taking a stance you happen to disagree with, possibly even questioning something you took for granted.
Sorry mate, but there's plenty of weapons in game already! I can slowly rip apart the local fauna with the knife, or bash them to death with the repulsion/propulsion cannon. I can ram them with the seamoth or cyclops. I can shock them to death with the perimeter defense. There's plenty of lethal weapons, and they're all very cruel!
Also, this thread was NOT intended to so clearly and aggressively divide people as it has done. I just wanted to show something the devs put in the game that I thought would finally shut people up.
Your thread title is, and was, an insult to folks who asked for a simple spear in game. You deliberately lumped those folks in with the ones who are asking for automatic weapons, lasers, and other Call of Duty: Subnautica ideas. You know that a spear is not a weapon of mass destruction, you know that it is not a firearm, and you know that the folks who asked for a spear have also said they support a 'No GUNS' policy...but you went ahead and made the post anyway, along with a 'now shut up' comment. People were already divided over the issue, your post had zero chance of 'finally' settling anything at all.
Also, this thread was NOT intended to so clearly and aggressively divide people as it has done. I just wanted to show something the devs put in the game that I thought would finally shut people up.
Your thread title is, and was, an insult to folks who asked for a simple spear in game. You deliberately lumped those folks in with the ones who are asking for automatic weapons, lasers, and other Call of Duty: Subnautica ideas. You know that a spear is not a weapon of mass destruction, you know that it is not a firearm, and you know that the folks who asked for a spear have also said they support a 'No GUNS' policy...but you went ahead and made the post anyway, along with a 'now shut up' comment. People were already divided over the issue, your post had zero chance of 'finally' settling anything at all.
You were trolling, pure and simple.
The title was in no way an insult. It just stated that I believed this would put an end to the issue. The entire first post was simply "There's a new message in the game now." Everything else I've said has been in response to others. You are reading WAY too far into this.
You were 100% trolling. What reaction did you think you were going to get when you created a thread claiming "checkmate" to a substantial portion of the community?
You were 100% trolling. What reaction did you think you were going to get when you created a thread claiming "checkmate" to a substantial portion of the community?
Trolling implies I did this specifically to get a reaction. I didn't. I did this to share some pretty important info, and have clarified that multiple times. The title was a JOKE. I didn't realize I had to explain a two word title that is so blatantly satirical to you.
You were 100% trolling. What reaction did you think you were going to get when you created a thread claiming "checkmate" to a substantial portion of the community?
Trolling implies I did this specifically to get a reaction. I didn't. I did this to share some pretty important info, and have clarified that multiple times. The title was a JOKE. I didn't realize I had to explain a two word title that is so blatantly satirical to you.
Perhaps you should look up the definition of satire:
"the use of humor, irony, exaggeration, or ridicule to expose and criticize people's stupidity or vices, particularly in the context of contemporary politics and other topical issues."
Yeah, your post used humor ('it was a JOKE' you say), irony ('checkmate' - a term from the world's oldest war game), exaggeration ("I'm glad the devs finally killed the weapons argument") to criticize the folks who think a spear should be in a survival game.
That pretty much covers it...which is the irony part, and its not so much that we're reading way too much into it, its that you either can't see it, or won't admit it. Either way, it didn't end discussion (and you really thought it would? LOL)
You were 100% trolling. What reaction did you think you were going to get when you created a thread claiming "checkmate" to a substantial portion of the community?
Trolling implies I did this specifically to get a reaction. I didn't. I did this to share some pretty important info, and have clarified that multiple times. The title was a JOKE. I didn't realize I had to explain a two word title that is so blatantly satirical to you.
Perhaps you should look up the definition of satire:
"the use of humor, irony, exaggeration, or ridicule to expose and criticize people's stupidity or vices, particularly in the context of contemporary politics and other topical issues."
Yeah, your post used humor ('it was a JOKE' you say), irony ('checkmate' - a term from the world's oldest war game), exaggeration ("I'm glad the devs finally killed the weapons argument") to criticize the folks who think a spear should be in a survival game.
That pretty much covers it...which is the irony part, and its not so much that we're reading way too much into it, its that you either can't see it, or won't admit it. Either way, it didn't end discussion (and you really thought it would? LOL)
And here come the semantics yet again. This is the last I'm saying on this issue, because frankly its getting ridiculous. I know the definition of satire, and it also means that something is not serious and meant to be humorous. So, you've basically proven my point by confirming that it is satire. So, if you really want new blueprints in the game, perhaps instead of a spear, you should go fabricate yourself a sense of humor.
Ever read All Quiet on the Western Front? The platoon sergeant weaponized an entrenching tool because the new serrated-edge bayonets were considered cruel and unusual, and earned their owners summary executions at the hands of the enemy when discovered. The sharpened shovel was an expedient modification of a tool for survival purposes.
The bayonets also had a tendency to get stuck inside of the enemy so needed more force and time to pull it out, which is really really bad for you when you're in an enemy's trench and you need it NOW.
Ever read All Quiet on the Western Front? The platoon sergeant weaponized an entrenching tool because the new serrated-edge bayonets were considered cruel and unusual, and earned their owners summary executions at the hands of the enemy when discovered. The sharpened shovel was an expedient modification of a tool for survival purposes.
The bayonets also had a tendency to get stuck inside of the enemy so needed more force and time to pull it out, which is really really bad for you when you're in an enemy's trench and you need it NOW.
Serrated blades in general are not much good in combat. They look scary, but the last thing you want is to have your knife stuck in someone while the other guy stabs you in the back.
Comments
So you show an example where you use a spear to kill? I don't see how you're doing anything but prove the devs point. Its designed to kill things. Spearfishing is killing things. And you can absolutely catch fish with your bare hands. Have you ever heard of noodling?
Are you PETA?
Dont believe it's a hoax? Do an ounce of research. The children are all alive and well, seen at the super bowl following the "shooting."
I'm all for logical ways around problems with non-lethal weapons. But the reasons for this move are based on a humongous and elaborate lie, which to me is more far worse thing.
Again, your lack of experience with real spears is showing. No, it cannot do everything a spear can do, and it definitely is not 'better' by any stretch of the imagination. It *is* different, and in fact it *is* a muzzle loading rifle. A gun, in a game where you keep saying you don't want any. You even call it a cannon, and apparently don't see the irony of offering it as a substitute for a spear.
The propulsion cannon takes a lot of advanced materials, energy and fabrication technology to make. It consumes batteries, which also take materials, energy, and fabrication technology to make. When the battery dies, it becomes useless weight in your hands or in your inventory. You cannot harvest Acid Mushrooms with it. It offers zero stand off capacity against aggressive wildlife (unless it is small, then I can *pull the deadly monster closer* to me, that's helpful) and is of no use at all against the larger ones. I absolutely would build a spear before a propulsion cannon, and be happier for it. I'd carry one everywhere, because it is so useful, and the propulsion cannon is nothing more than an expensive, rarely useful toy. In game terms, a rifle that can grab a man sized object *at range* and THEN fling it into the air or a solid wall, is *certainly* much more capable of 'massacre' than a knife on a stick, but please continue to tell me that you've made the universe safer by preventing us from making spears.
I won't bother explaining the humor in a statement that "having a spear would be boring in a sci-fi game", where you swim around and collect things to distill into water and scan blueprints to build things. Over, and over, and over again.
Yeah that sure strengthens your point and doesn't just make you look thirsty lmao.
No Weapons.
Oh and I also have some popcorn left, although I am contributing
Also it clearly shows that you have not read my post.
I better not show him any pictures of me!
I'm saying that a spear is designed mainly to kill. I know that as @scubamatt said that it can be used for other things, but as other things can be used a weapons, weapons can be used as other things. Also, this thread was NOT intended to so clearly and aggressively divide people as it has done. I just wanted to show something the devs put in the game that I thought would finally shut people up.
I played and finished Alien Isolation, and even you could have several fire guns you always use them as a last resort, since the alien is completely immune to standard weapons. I only brought this up because this game, just like Alien Isolation is pretty much focused on using your cunning to overcome most obstacles, having powerful weapons in this game would be overkill in my opinion.
Still for those who wish to Pew Pew the Devs could place a Pulse Rifle (non build-able by any other means) somewhere in the wrecks that once retrieved it could be used against some medium size predators, only people really interested in having it could go and retrieve it.
a weapon might be useful late in the game when shoggoths start coming up from the depths and hiding in your base
coming home from a gathering mission to find your base power sabotaged and "things" lurking in the dark
A weapon that is only effective in air might be useful then
Fixing the aurora gives you more modification options as you can access the computer core such as modifying a laser cutter into a short range defense weapon or something
but fixing the aurora also brings "things" up from the deep to investigate you
We'll also need this for the language barrier:
Only folks realized this is all moot. The sheer amount of time jockeying to be "right". It's a game. There won't be weapons, and we all will still play/test this game.
Thank. You.
I'd love to see the popcorn sales if someone requested an entrenching tool be added to the game.
The "tactical" survival shovel.
Ever read All Quiet on the Western Front? The platoon sergeant weaponized an entrenching tool because the new serrated-edge bayonets were considered cruel and unusual, and earned their owners summary executions at the hands of the enemy when discovered. The sharpened shovel was an expedient modification of a tool for survival purposes.
Any tool can be "weaponized" (as this thread readily proves), because all weapons are tools. As readily evidenced by the knife, cooking fish in the fabricator, bouncing biters off the rocks with the repulsion cannon, and flinging acid mushrooms at anything with the gravity gun.
The SeaMoth is a utility submersible, and I use it to quite gleefully plow through schools of bleeders and biters.
I'm absolutely fine with the dev's stance. Yes, if this were real life, the survivor would figure out basic tools/weapons, or be eaten. That's what humans are good at. We are tool makers. But in this game, it is nice to have to discover new uses for tools because we can't build a spear. It's called "emergent gameplay."
Until just a couple minutes ago reading this thread, I had NO IDEA you could charge up the SeaMoth defensive shock. I've always just used it as a single click discharge, perfectly happy with the short-duration deterrent it provides.
Now I'm going to go gleefully fry schools of bleeders and biters with a fully charged zapper.
Cheers to all of you posters, pundits, flamers, intellectuals, and tools. I love you all. Never change.
J
Sorry mate, but there's plenty of weapons in game already! I can slowly rip apart the local fauna with the knife, or bash them to death with the repulsion/propulsion cannon. I can ram them with the seamoth or cyclops. I can shock them to death with the perimeter defense. There's plenty of lethal weapons, and they're all very cruel!
Your thread title is, and was, an insult to folks who asked for a simple spear in game. You deliberately lumped those folks in with the ones who are asking for automatic weapons, lasers, and other Call of Duty: Subnautica ideas. You know that a spear is not a weapon of mass destruction, you know that it is not a firearm, and you know that the folks who asked for a spear have also said they support a 'No GUNS' policy...but you went ahead and made the post anyway, along with a 'now shut up' comment. People were already divided over the issue, your post had zero chance of 'finally' settling anything at all.
You were trolling, pure and simple.
The title was in no way an insult. It just stated that I believed this would put an end to the issue. The entire first post was simply "There's a new message in the game now." Everything else I've said has been in response to others. You are reading WAY too far into this.
Trolling implies I did this specifically to get a reaction. I didn't. I did this to share some pretty important info, and have clarified that multiple times. The title was a JOKE. I didn't realize I had to explain a two word title that is so blatantly satirical to you.
Perhaps you should look up the definition of satire:
"the use of humor, irony, exaggeration, or ridicule to expose and criticize people's stupidity or vices, particularly in the context of contemporary politics and other topical issues."
Yeah, your post used humor ('it was a JOKE' you say), irony ('checkmate' - a term from the world's oldest war game), exaggeration ("I'm glad the devs finally killed the weapons argument") to criticize the folks who think a spear should be in a survival game.
That pretty much covers it...which is the irony part, and its not so much that we're reading way too much into it, its that you either can't see it, or won't admit it. Either way, it didn't end discussion (and you really thought it would? LOL)
And here come the semantics yet again. This is the last I'm saying on this issue, because frankly its getting ridiculous. I know the definition of satire, and it also means that something is not serious and meant to be humorous. So, you've basically proven my point by confirming that it is satire. So, if you really want new blueprints in the game, perhaps instead of a spear, you should go fabricate yourself a sense of humor.
The bayonets also had a tendency to get stuck inside of the enemy so needed more force and time to pull it out, which is really really bad for you when you're in an enemy's trench and you need it NOW.
Serrated blades in general are not much good in combat. They look scary, but the last thing you want is to have your knife stuck in someone while the other guy stabs you in the back.