Build 310 is now live on Steam! - Natural Selection 2
System
Join Date: 2013-01-29 Member: 182599Members, Super Administrators, Reinforced - Diamond
Join Date: 2013-01-29 Member: 182599Members, Super Administrators, Reinforced - Diamond
Build 310 is now live on Steam! - Natural Selection 2
Today we have a treat for you. New first person animations have arrived for all the core pieces of a Marine’s basic kit: Rifle, Pistol, and Axe! Every single animation...
Comments
Is there anyway to switch to old pistol animations? the new bobbing makes me feel like my marine is slower then it actually is and doesn't match with the running speed.
Although the axe actually fires at the rate that it plays the animation, it's laggy. The marine pistol now sort of looks like female marine rifle in the way it draws, which is very strange.
has the grenade always instantly thrown before finishing the throw animations?
Everything else is all good.
like the yellow heart plug now :P
like the new pistol reload, that's spick.
also you've disabled black armor DLC? or is that just me where all my DLC doesn't show up in the main menu, strange neither does any of my icons/badges.
Most of the other new animations make me kinda glad that i'm a commander though:
(1) In the past many players, myself included, used the female marine model because the rifle didn't bounce all over the place with it. This made shooting feel less hectic, the ammo counter was easier to see (relevant while shooting pve for example) and just felt better/less headachy in general.
(2) The new Rifle reload seems a bit inefficient. While i like the first part of it, pulling the bolt back with the shooting hand is something only a super untrained shooter would do IMO (like the "i've never seen a gun in my life" kind of untrained actually). The marine HAS A HAND FREE with which he could easily do it, but insted he chooses to take his main hand off the grip, forcing him to somehow hold the gun in place with his off-hand. After that the rine also has to find the grip and the trigger again, adding further delay to his ability to shoot. The way in which this happens also feels like taking a big risk of letting the gun slip altogether. All-in-all marines now feel like the untrained milita of some backwater planet, and not like the highly trained elite force they felt like in past (especially with black armor/"ELITE" assault armor).
(3) Rifle deploy: The unfolding of the Rifle should start while pulling it out like in the past i think. Especially the riflebutt-halves feel like they are floating without support if it is started that late. Also the marine is realistically wasting time by not unfolding it while pulling it out; just like with the reload, it makes the marine seem untrained.
(4) Pistol position: While it always felt too big in the past, now it feels like its a miniature IMO (and i'm, using a 27" monitor already). Additionally the more centerd position makes me feel like it will shoot below the crosshair, but time will better that issue i guess.
(5) Pistol running: Its feels even smaller! Also pulling it up gave the old run animation that extra flair, but only that totally isn't important for small (kinda niche) games, right?
(6) Axing: If you ever chopped wood in your life, you should see that the old animation definately wasn't perfect, but still quite a bit more realistic. And i wouldn't think chopping a harvester would be too much different from chopping wood. Pushing the Axe straight out to the front without swinging it just won't produce enough force to achieve much.
Doesn't seem like Hive2.0 is working though.. Played multiple games and hive score didn't go up/down for anyone on the server. Which sucked cause there was an extremely high skilled smurf dominating every game and ruining balance with only 1200 hive on his smurf account... (and yes the server is whitelisted, I checked with the owner)
There's also a bug now during pre-game (thank god it's only pre-game!!) where the commanders can't see any of the other team's structures/units... Not a vital fix, but it does kind of suck when seeding a server.
How were you checking people's skills? The hive website is still showing the old system and won't be updated. I think the plan is to make the hive2 scores private and not have a leaderboard.
I personally think making the hive scores hidden is a mistake... Not only do they allow you to see who is way way way above everyone else (and prevent you from wasting time on that server if you don't want to play with 1 player that far above everyone) but they also let you see via sh_teamstats if the teams are actually even... The "average" shown means squat since a single low skill player can cause 2-3 of the top players in the server to all be grouped onto one team.
It also conveniently hides whether or not the system is working. I knew hive 1.0 was flawed because my score fluctuated from 700 all the way up to 1900... If we can't see our scores how will we ever know if hive 2.0 is actually "better" or not...
I think in general, people are not capable of looking at one or two hive numbers and concluding how good the system is. Your personal score fluctuating a lot is certainly not desirable, but it doesn't tell you much about the system as a whole. Maybe yours is the only skill that does this. You may have a fun, even match, then look at the hive scores and notice they were well-balanced. But if you're not checking every round and writing it down, that data is not too useful. And even if you are, what fraction of the total rounds are the rounds you play?
Flaunting hive skills has social downsides. So I agree with the decision to keep Hive skill semi-hidden. I think they should go further and remove individual skill display from NS2+.
Hive skill is not your bank account. It should not matter to you personally if it goes up or down. The skill values being so visible leads people to think hive is something it is not. The argument that being able to see hive skills allows individual players to see if it is working, that is very flawed.
The narrow scope of view that the individual player has does not allow that player to see if hive is working well or not. There are players out there where hive has clearly seemed to get their skill wrong. They exist. They are also rare. Even though they are rare, they stick out because they are painful to play with. This leads to people thinking the system is worse than it actually is because they see one thing wrong.
Hive skill being shown creates a lot of social problems with in the game. It might be too late to hide hive skill values entirely, but I for one am glad they are moving in that direction.
I do agree that the in game link to the hive website needs to be removed.
You can disable viewmodels in NS2+ options.
only if admins enable it, in which case most of them do not because that is an unfair advantage.
How is that unfair when everyone is free to disable it?
Wanting to make your weapon/teeth invisible just so you can see better is a cheater's mentality to me.. Once you take that first step of making your weapon invisible, it becomes easier to justify a "mod" to let you see through walls, etc...
What's more, once one person can do it, then EVERYONE is forced to do it, otherwise those that do have an unfair advantage...
As far as hive goes.. what "social problems" does showing it introduce? People being able to see when 1 player is 2500 hive score above everyone else in the server and knowing beforehand that the game will be pure shit to play? Hiding it won't solve that, it will just make people suffer through those shit games, (instead of finding another server or making a better attempt to balance teams) which will probably lead to more people quitting.
Plus it just screams of a lazy way to cover things up if hive2.0 doesn't improve anything. Because nobody will ever know if it works if we can't see the scores. (especially in regards to shuffle working better)
Besides that we still need separate scores for Marine/Alien, and some addition to the shuffle algorithm that tries to place us on our preferred team. I hopped on to play tonight before coming on the forum, and 5 out of 6 games I was forced to Marine... Marine for the first 3, then Alien, then Marine 2 more times...
I know i'm just talking to a wall here.. but damn.
Have you heard about the slippery slope fallacy? I suggest you read that link and learn why your reasoning is wrong.
This information has practically no use to you, or any individual player. The stomp you are implying would happen anyways. You could leave but you will probably find another high skill player to complain about.
They are going to suffer through those games regardless. Showing them hive skill does not change this.
It may be hard to notice if hive 2.0 improved anything. This is not because it didn't improve anything, but because the improvements are subtle.
You want hive 2.0 to make more balanced games. It can only do so much. As I have tried to describe to you for at least a year now, the problem is the small playerbase and the wide skill gap. No skill system is going to solve that. I am sorry I am not able to communicate better in order to help you understand this. Looking to see if hive 2.0 improved things by looking at players hive skill will only make you think it failed, but really your expectations were too high.
Seeing other players hive skill has no value to you. Seeing other players hive skills is not what will inform you if hive 2.0 is working or not.
Over the coming weeks, because it will take time for data to come in, you should see less underated players. You don't need to see hive skill to notice this.
There are no longer rookies who started at 0 and some at 1000. Rookies will also find their hive skill much quicker. This will result in shuffles producing better quality games. It may be hard to notice this because we still have a small playerbase and a wide skill gap.
Part of the problem is people thinking hive skill is something it is not. Players take their hive skill much too personally.
For example: This quote I pulled from the forums shows a false perception about hive.
It does not matter what your skill value is. Your skill value is not your bank account. You should not feel bad when it goes down.
If your hive skill goes down you are not being punished. Hive does not reward or punish players. That is personifying it a mathematical formula. It is like saying your computer is mad at you.
People can complain that you can do awesome and still lose points. That is fine. You will get them back. It doesn't matter.
Read this. This is a easy to understand explanation of how hive works. Look at the graph shown. Notice how the skill goes up and down a lot in small intervals.
So not having giant view models that bob around and cover a 4th of the screen gives me a slightly better line of site you believe no one should be able to use it?
Do you also fail to realize that with no view models often its hard to tell which weapon you have equipped as well as how much ammo you have? There countless times ill run into a fight and all of a sudden instead of a rifle i have an axe or a flamethrower i didn't even buy out that i happened to just pick up.
If i recall correctly weren't you also mad that atmospheric lighting wasn't a player toggle instead but a server side one? So what if i like my game nice and clean with nice visibility? Removing viewmodels doesn't add any more visibility than you normally would have but simply removes the annoying bobbing of the gun as well as the animations.
Because you see it as a slippery slope i can't have a custom clean setup? Fuck me right?
Please make this a tiny/scaled item instead of a large monolith, it's distracting as fuck.
Server has had 19128398123901283 errors, spammed in console.
One player was floating around and not in the readyroom dead.
Viewmodels are the base part of the game, you remove that you might as well add in spiked models to make it easier to spot skulks/marines, hell why stop there, why not pink skulks to see easier in the dark? The best thing you could do is have a static weapon without view bobbing, removing it is giving yourself an advantage when most people on the server won't be using it because of a self explained issue above. Most people aren't smart enough to know which weapon they're using and or tell how much ammo they have, in my case i don't have this problem because i have played long enough to understand the mechanics. That and your arguments aren't even arguments because you can't even begin to explain any benefits other then personal ones.
edit:
I get a weapon switching bug where my pistol didn't want to fire, instead it played a rifle draw animation then switched, it had a delay?
edit2:grenades now jitter when thrown in the air and are somewhat laggy, could this be due to it being more dependent on server-side interp now?
edit3:I see you've re-added skulk sound effects when reaching max speed and jumping from walls, you've muffled the sound and added that glide effect the lerk has, how bloody annoying, we removed it for a reason.
edit4:i am not sure what is going on but when biting a res tower i can't hear jetpackers at times, almost always(could just be me)
edit5: can you add in allowing to move while using buy menu? can be rather frustrating when trying to run and egg at same time, or is that not allowed? multitasking suchs when it just gives you sound feedback.
edit6: i think i might be going crazy but has draw distance also been changed? it seems lower then before.
I can only urge you to do that even with sh_teamstats or when it's shown in the scoreboard.. otherwise you'll get another outcry once Hiveskill 2.0 is far different than 1.0 ... since everyone is checking the old values...
It seems to me you are doing another vital mistake because you don't think things through ... since you didn't think of it beforehand.. its just like the ratingwindow without a close button/esc function.. unbelievable
lol. How is it my fault when people won't use that feature. Forcing viewmodels on me because others want to use it is not really fair, is it?
Besides you can of course still see weapon and ammo without view models fyi.
I never said you couldn't see it, i was just saying people are too retarded to even use no view model because they get confused as to what weapon they're holding and how much ammo, read that other guys post, even he said he gets confused sometimes and surely he isn't new to the game right? way to make it harder for people.
also in response to your dribble,
How is my fault that we're forced to use a feature such as health bar esp with the 'choice' to get penalized for disabling it on a local client? what sort of dumbfuckery was that decision? it's backwards to how is should have been, enabled by admins only, exactly the same sort of argument for your view models being disabled. You clearly don't have a straight answer which leads you to circlejerk with some other toupe wearing troupe.
I just want to enjoy the game without having miscellaneous features being added without it having being documented openly and rushed out the door to meet some third rate targets.
edit:How is my fault that people don't learn to have game awareness, or learn to bunnyhop or dodge? same sort of people complain about people tormenting them, "stacking" or ruining games because they're being beaten in game and don't take the time to learn how to play, if you seriously need no viewmodel to gain skill points then you might as well well just download some hacks because you've already given up trying to play it as it was intended to be played. In regards to this animation update it's not how it was originally intended to be played, just a mucked up animation cycle for no one knows what ever waste of a budget and time it was. Could have been used to improve actual performance so we can increase performance of moverate on servers (it's needed) or actually create some new weapons / models that can be released in future updates in preparation for F2P or the more sooner DLC for structures to come.
Hive skill-
The difference between a 1560 and a 1600 is negligible...as with a single round the 1600 could lose 20 and the 1560 could gain 20... why are we showing non-significant digits? Sure they make sense for optimization of the math but displaying it implys relevance to the player.
Need a more user friendly less specific visible skill indicator. I don't care if it's a 1-10 range where a +3k player is a 10 and a 0020 player is a 1. Or maybe a-f, Or military rank Emblems, Or lots of little stars...
The degree of "uncertainty" of a system with fewer discrete rankings would go a long way. Seeing the other team has a level 10 player would seem less daunting then "oh
Models-
- axe model, WTH! I hope this is like 1/2 the animation. It is like the most noncommittal half ass swing ever. I hope this is supposed to be the binational if you hit something, and that a different animation will be added if you whiff...
- Rifle butt, OOps! How did my hand get there? Why am I running around holding the rifle by the stock...
No.. I was mad that it was being removed because it was so great. Making it a player toggle would've just put anyone using it at a disadvantage..
No of course not.. Being able to see through your weapon/teeth where you couldn't before isn't giving you ANY more visibility at all...
I've heard the exact same argument used to justify using everything from "mods" that make all the other players bright neon pink/green, to wallhacks and aimbots...
Edit: You know what.. It doesn't matter anymore. I'm fed up with this extremely toxic community of elitist snobs. Have fun with your shit one sided games and your 3k pro's dominating entire teams of 1k skill casuals.. Have fun insulting and taunting anyone who isn't as pro as you are. I hope all you elitist dicks burn in hell. This community was so great when I first started playing, it's sad to see the cesspool of shit it's become.
RIP NS2.. I'm out.. Rejoice Assholes. (mods you can just delete my forum account)
I only have a problem with the pistol running animation. Before, the marine would bend the arm and hold the pistol up, letting me easily know whether I'm sprinting or not. I relied on that visual to let me know if I have to tap sprint because it's easy to get stuck on something and automatically stop sprinting. The way it is now, I need to stare at the pistol whenever I get possibly stuck and my brain spends more time processing that bobbing animation to verify that, yes, I am indeed sprinting. It was so easy to verify in the past and the new animation seems like a step backward to me. You could say that I could rely on the sprinting sound instead, but it's slower and less reliable for me than verifying visually.
Also, that Soldier: 76 rifle butt.
elitist snobs? i was in the game where everyone was flaming you. They told you a million times to ignore the gorge in the vent and push out, but you spent the whole fucking game in the vent trying to kill the gorge and rebutted with some fucking egocentric reply like 'i want to play the game how i want to play it, not how others want me to play it'.
Yeah im glad people like you leave ns2, makes it easier to teach the rookies when there's one less retard spending 20mins crouching in 1 spot trying to kill a hydra'd,clogged up gorge in a vent.
(2) Yea it messes with my head every time the rifle reloads because not only is he using the wrong hand but that side of the gun does not even have the part he is pulling back because it is only on the left side of the model.
(5) The current animation makes it hard to tell if you are currently running or not
(6) The animation makes me feel like I am not really hitting anything hard.
-Obby