Underwhelmed by PRAWN
harrzack
United States Join Date: 2016-09-11 Member: 222250Members
United States Join Date: 2016-09-11 Member: 222250Members
Guess this comment will bring lot of negatives, but after trying the PRAWN a bit, and after the amazing controlablity and flexibility of the Seamoth - I'm parking the PRAWN on a platform - maybe I can put a spotlight on it and give it some use...
Just MHO - but I'd much rather see advanced options for the Seamoth and have the PRAWN retired. Don't waste any more coding time on that dog!
With the 'moth and a Cyclops with good nav controls (button-controlled cams, instrument panel separate & independent from cams, etc) you have a killer combination that really needs nothing else.
Your mileage will certainly vary!
Just MHO - but I'd much rather see advanced options for the Seamoth and have the PRAWN retired. Don't waste any more coding time on that dog!
With the 'moth and a Cyclops with good nav controls (button-controlled cams, instrument panel separate & independent from cams, etc) you have a killer combination that really needs nothing else.
Your mileage will certainly vary!
Comments
So, I'd be of the opposite opinion: It needs stronger limitations added!
The gameplay transitions between Seamoth and PRAWN - you can use the Seamoth only so far and to progress in the future story, we're gonna use the PRAWN even more. If anything, the PRAWN is great for mining resources (silver!), which makes it useful enough by itself. I wouldn't call it "wasting coding time" at all.
The only downside to it is that if you don't have the grapple hook, and you fall down a trench/ hole/ off the side of the damn map, you're pretty much doomed and might as well go ahead and kill yourself, it's the only way out.
Once you reach later game and the objectives and target areas change, the PRAWN becomes the much more useful/convenient choice over a Seamoth, especially as a Cyclops addition.
Plus, the PRAWN gives a completely different viewpoint experience than the other vessels, which may not be necessarily useful but supports the exploration/observation side of the game.
Indeed.
Although one issue is the linear progression that appears in Subnautica...
It goes something like this:
- Airtanks
- Radiation suit
- Your first base (storage etc.)
- Seamoth
- Cyclops & Seamoth
- Cyclops & PRAWN
The need to build bases in different environments decreases once you have the cyclops
A lot of environments cease being hazardous once you have the cyclops.
A lot of deep environments open up once you have the PRAWN.
Gameplay difficulty decreases once you have an advanced seabase (free water filtration, fishtanks/farming, powercell chargers)
This renders a lot of the gameplay irrelevant during later stages of the game, giving it a linear & progressive feel.
My own instinct would be to try to make the cyclops and PRAWN weaker, and to make the advanced base equipment more expensive (e.g. requiring more power and resources to build), as well as potentially making bases damageable by environmental hazards (storms or critters).
They use the same depth upgrade module, you can easily pop the depth upgrade out of the Seamoth and put it in the PRAWN.
Don't worry, you're not the only one, but we're a huge minority. I actively avoid building the horrific abomination.
I have personal aesthetic reasons for not liking the PRAWN. I've never liked mechs or mech-like things; I don't really know what it is, but I suppose I find them lame. They're ugly, weird, and extremely unimpressive to me.
It might be an inherent prejudice in me; I can't stand Japanese anime culture and I strongly associate mechs with that. Oooh controversial.
...how the heck do you turn the PRAWN's lights out? Short of just popping out the power cells?
I just built mining and grappling arms, a storage expansion and a hull armor module for mine, and in at least five or six times as long as it would have taken me in my Seamoth, managed to blunder my way over from my base in the shallows over towards the general vicinity of the Aurora. On the way I mined one large cluster of silver ("Oh, so that's what that is"), two chunks of lead ("Oh, so that's what that is") that I didn't bother picking up because after building a radiation suit I have no further use for lead, one chunk of copper ("Oh, so that's what that is, I expected that to be gold"), and a bunch of quartz. By this time I was down to 60% power, so I turned around and started trying to head back, which was when the reaper showed up and in two separate attacks thrashed my suit down to 28%. The exosuit was too slow and unwieldy to evade it. I found a safe (I thought) corner between some rocks, got out, and had just finished welding up the exosuit when the reaper came back and showed that by clipping through the ground he could indeed get into that corner, stole my newly repaired suit, ran off with it and left it floating in mid-water about a hundred meters away. I swam about halfway to it before he came back again and destroyed it. Fortunately I was only in about 140 meters of water and the surface was within reach.
I wasn't very happy about this, having only got maybe a tenth of the materials with the suit that it cost to build it, and having gotten to punch a reaper in the face a few times with the mining arm wasn't much consolation. I could have put those same materials to better use elsewhere.
So, no, not very impressed with the exosuit. At its present state of usefulness and functionality, I can't say I'm very inclined right now to bother building another one. The only place I know about so far that it could presumably get into that I can't get into with a Seamoth is the vicinity of the lava fortress, and the drop-offs into that area are high enough that while I imagine I could get in, I don't see how I'd ever get out again.
(Which reminds me, is the exosuit supposed to be able to dock in the Cyclops? I couldn't get it to do so. Maybe I wasn't managing to get close enough. The bay doors would open, but I couldn't get the suit inside.)
How I'd make a start on fixing it:
I've been dutifully giving the PRAWN a go, and still find it quite a clunky vehicle. And still not really anxious to use it. After the swift and nimble Seamoth, all the gyrations one has to go through to use the PRAWN seems... duh?
This IS a software generated world - and anything is possible! SO - couldn't there be upgrades to the Seamoth to give it some of the capabilities of the PRAWN? There could be an "equipment rack" or panel that could be added to the front of the 'moth to support the drill and other cool goodies of the PRAWN. A MK4 depth addon can take us deeper - would we need a MK5?
The PRAWN seems like a tacked-on feature to give some variety to the vehicles of the game - and I'm not really seeing any utility in the concept itself. Given the power of the Cyclops/Seamoth combination and the ability to create add-on's (the Dev's ARE God, afterall...) to increase and manage capabilities, the PRAWN seems to bring little advantage to the table.
To wit: going from simple swimmng to Seaglide - def step forward. Then from Seaglide to Seamoth - huge step up/forward. Then bring in the Cyclops with its 'nest' for the Seamoth, and the mobile base concept springs to life! A logical progression... Then comes the PRAWN... ummm... - seems like evolution took a step backwards!
One of the things that grabbed me right away with Subnautica was the fluid (!) way one moves around even with just swimming and the Seaglide. Then when I got the Seamoth - YEOW
With the PRAWN, you take a step backwards in general mobility and nimbleness - for what? The Seamoth could be given all those capbilities without the need for a third vehicle to maintain and learn.
To gain the capabilities of an advanced Seamoth should take skill, work and time in the game. Not to be a "give-away" or make things too easy. I'd really like to see the PRAWN deprecated, and go the way of the Dodo - and it's capabilities blended in to a "Super-Seamoth"!
The basic claw arm can get a reaper to let you go relatively quickly, and the claw and drill combo does allow you to collect while mining.
The grappling hook greatly increases the mobility of the PRAWN, and going out to swap out arms isn't a huge hassle, and it does make sense to have to get outside to change them, you go between mobility mode and mining mode. (And spider manning around the Lost River and ILZ is super fun).
Where I agree with you is personal inventory access. That needs to be a thing in the seamoth and PRAWN.
And while it does break the immersion a bit, I definitely disagree that mapping needs to be a thing in vehicles. The compass tells you just enough to keep you from getting hopelessly lost, if you pay attention to it. A map would just be too much, take away too much of the challenge of the survival aspect.
Just my opinions. I know people will disagree.
Side note: I have had a lot more fun avoiding building a Cyclops in my latest game. Cyclops makes survival too easy. It houses plants and removes the need to build bases. I had much more fun with a small power station in the shallows, and a few larger bases out in various biomes. It meant one of my vehicles was parked at the power station which I always eventually made my way back to, to swap vehicles if I needed to go somewhere different, or have more carrying capacity (seamoth), or go mine something.
I think coordinates have a bad name as since they are NOT currently in the game the only way you can use them is to turn on the debug console. Since it isn't always on I think it may tend to get used only when somebody is going to coordinates they have acquired outside the game - which while not necessarily 'cheating' is a tad less than 'pure'... LOL!
BTW - do like your idea of skipping the Cyclops - but still think a 'Super-Seamoth' could be easily built that would have the capabilities of the PRAWN without the need for a 3rd vehicle. Just MHO!
Unless this recently changed, the Prawns lights don't use any of the power cells energy (similar to the Cyclops lights being energy free.)
I've left mine parked next to my sea base for days at a stretch between mining excursions and still had 100% power in the cells upon my return.
...If you have it equipped. You can't get out to swap arms in the middle of a reaper attack. Which brings us back squarely to the "You need more arms than there are arm slots" problem.
You've still got to explore and chart it all in the first place. I completely disagree that it breaks immersion in any way. If the captain of ANY existing marine vessel put to sea without charts he'd be drawn up on charges for gross negligence and probably lose his master's ticket.
There clearly is some kind of mapping/coordinate system already assumed in the game technology. One word: Signals. When you can get a "signal" to a heat signature or a "large organic mass" and be able to track in your HUD not only the exact bearing to it but the exact distance to it down to the meter, something in your equipment clearly knows not only exactly where the signal is originating from, but where you are. What breaks immersion for me is being UNABLE to access that obviously-must-already-exist information in the form of a chart of some kind. As I've said before, it is simply not plausible that a star-faring civilization has not mastered, at a basic-commodity-device level, the art of building a map as you go.
Lest there be any confusion, I am absolutely not arguing that you should start out with a completed or even partly-filled map. Or that there should be an always-on minimap in your HUD. In fact, I would argue in favor of removing the mini-chartlet from the Seaglide. It doesn't belong there. The Seaglide isn't even a vehicle, it's a dumb hand-held electric thruster with a built-in floodlight. It's got no business displaying even a local short-range chart. But if even something as crude and rock-dumb as the Seaglide can dynamically chart as it goes, even if it can't store the resulting charts, then it just totally breaks suspension of disbelief that the Seamoth is unable to do so — let alone the Cyclops.
A map/chart should be available only in vehicles, and should be blank until you've explored an area in a vehicle. Your chart should show only what you have actually seen and explored first-hand, with the exception of detected signals (which should show only as a point signal source until you go and explore that area yourself). Remote mapping drones could be an eventual option, though. Perhaps a mapping-drone torpedo for the Seamoth's torpedo bay.
(Speaking of which, the Seamoth torpedo bay upgrade really needs some way to select what type of torpedo you want to fire when carrying a mixed load. Otherwise, the more types of torpedo there are, the more likely is is that the type ready to fire will not be the type you need right then. And you've very unlikely to have time to jump out of your Seamoth and reload the torpedo bay.)
Relatedly, the scanner room really doesn't work for me as a game mechanism. It's too limited in range, too little, too late. It just doesn't do enough compared to what it should be able to do. Without any upgrades installed, I can almost see more, quicker and more easily, just by looking out a window. And by the time you've built a base anywhere with a scanner room attached, you've probably already harvested all significant deposits of anything useful within the range of the scanner room anyway.
I too would love to see some kind of in game map that you would need to chart yourself, especially with the ability make annotations to the map to mark wrecks you've already salvaged, wrecks you need to revisist with a cutting torch, etc.
While you can mark them with beacons, it makes the world a cluttered mess with dozens of buoys giving out signals all the time virtually everywhere you look.
Even if we lacked any sort of normal navigational capability, just setting up two or three beacons at marked locations (say the aurora, the southern island and the northern one) would allow you to easily triangulate your position between the three signals and therefore accurately navigate on a map of some kind.
Which is why I said not having any map in vehicles breaks immersion. Sorry for the confusion.
Coordinates are even more powerful than a map. They tell you exactly where you are, exactly how far away something is, and exactly what direction. If a place is important enough that you need to know exactly where it is, place a beacon.
(I do agree that beacons can get cluttered though, and an on/off switch for showing them would be nice).
Yeah but if you don't have the claw arm equipped, and you don't have the mining arm equipped (which will also get the reaper to let you go, just not quite as fast), then you've got some combination of a torpedo arm, a grappling arm, and a propulsion arm. The worst case is grappling plus propulsion or dual grappling (I can't imagine you're using dual propulsion for anything). You then have no offense while being carried, but you can get away quickly with the grappling arm as soon as it lets you go.
I honestly never use propulsion or torpedo arms. The basic claw is too useful, offense and picking things up. So the question I have for you I guess is... What combination are you hanging around in reaper areas with, that you can't beat on them while they carry you, and also can't get away immediately after the first attack?
I interpret the prawn suit as your end game solution for mobility (small size, maneuverability, dual grappling arm) safety (hull strength superior to sea moth, offensive abilities superior to sea moth), scavenging (extra inventory available, drill arms) and cave/deep exploration (lights, furthest depth limit, grappling arms and walking/jumping movement suitable for cave environments, ability to restore power through heat vents)
This vehicle is likely going to be the most difficult to implement my suggestions for. I will add more later.
1 - [cumulative storage inventory, storage access inside vehicle]
2 - [PDA access inside vehicle, alluded to in suggestion 1]
3 - [an extra upgrade slot specifically for pressure compensator]
4 - [all arms available]
5 - [default claws: allow the to interact with things, IF Tools suggestion 1 is implemented; give welding ability]
IF Tool suggestion 1 is implemented please give the default claws the ability to weld. I envision the animation for this as the 3 claw tips converging at a point from which the welding light appears. The default keybinding for this could be q (yes having 2 arms equipped will double the speed). It may be worth considering adding this regardless of Tool suggestion 1 as it could enable the addition of extreme depth alien structures that act as a continuation of the wrecks game play mechanic into the end game. Also, this could just be added to the current game as a means of progressing the players capabilities beyond the starting tools (faster repairs, larger energy pool, recharging more streamline than seeking out / building a battery charger).
6 - [propulsion cannon arm: IF Tools suggestion 1 is implemented; give base building ability]
7 - [grappling arm: increase speed and distance of grapple, reduce cool down, IF tools suggestion 1 is implemented; give lazer cutter ability]
IF Tools suggestion 1 is implemented, please give the grappling arm the ability the lazer cutter has. I envision the animation for this being the grapple getting shot towards the surface that is to be removed, puncturing the surface, sending some kind of energy pulse up through the grapple wire and across the surface to weaken it etc (this could possibly be timed, to allow 2 grapple arms to be faster and energy to be consumed much like normal laser cutting), then retracting back pulling the surface away with it (ie, ripping a door off its hinges). The default keybinding for this function could be q. I suggest a specific button rather than tearing down appropriate surfaces the grapple makes contact with by normal grapple activation, just in case the player actually wanted to use the surface to move with. For instance, maybe in the active lava zone the player can try to pull down parts of the ceiling onto the sea dragon to damage it like the fight against gohma in zelda: wind waker; this would require them to be able to differentiate between when they want to use the cieling to move and when they want to bring it down. It may be worth considering adding this regardless of Tool suggestion 1 as it could enable the addition of extreme depth alien structures that act as a continuation of the wrecks game play mechanic into the end game. Also, this could just be added to the current game as a means of progressing the players capabilities beyond the starting tools (faster / bigger door detachments, larger energy pool, recharging more streamline than seeking out / building a battery charger).
8 - [drill arm: capable of getting the suit unstuck]
9 - [Torpedo arm: increase torpedo storage, IF P.R.A.W.N suit suggestion 4 is implemented; storage of torpedoes separate to arm, IF Tools suggestion 1 is implemented; ability to launch scanner probes]
IF P.R.A.W.N suit suggestion 4 is implemented, please consider adding another compartment to the prawn suit in which torpedoes are stored. Having the ability to swap out arms would mean getting into the suit to swap to the right arm to then be able to access the torpedo storage. This would likely be a pain if the player just has it docked in a moon pool and decides to reload the torpedoes but the suit doesn't have a torpedo arm currently active. Also it would hopefully prevent issues of torpedoes disappearing and such when the player is swapping arms around effecting the accumulative torpedo storage.
IF Tools suggestion 1 is implemented, please give the torpedo arm the ability to launch scanner probes something like the ones from this scene of prometheus. I don't really expect them to move around, in fact they probably shouldn't. By holding q for different lengths of time before releasing, the player will determine how far the drone will be shot. They should, when launched, move off to where they were shot but continue to slow down until they stop and then stay still. They would provide 2 functions, the first is essentially the same as the sea moth sonar, but probably with a larger range considering they won't be moving with the suit. While inside the suit the terrain will be highlighted within the range of the drone/s, allowing the player to more easily navigate the cave networks both due to being more easily able to spot tunnels and openings, but more precisely being able to locate walls, roofs and other terrain features to grapple onto while doing the spider man thing. The drone's second function would be to act as the prawn suit's version of a scanner. If upon stopping, the drone is within a small range of a fragment, as well as the piloted prawn suit, it will begin to scan the fragment. I think a maximum of 15 - 20 being active at any time should be appropriate. If more are spawned the oldest one disappears. It may be worth considering adding this regardless of Tool suggestion 1 as it could enable the addition of extreme depth alien structures that act as a continuation of the wrecks game play mechanic into the end game. Also, this could just be added to the current game as a means of progressing the players capabilities beyond the starting tools (faster scanning, larger energy pool, recharging more streamline than seeking out / building a battery charger).
10 - [fold up legs]
11 - [allow crouching and then perhaps navigation on wheels or slow speed sea moth like movement]
12 - [no clip with small objects]