A Few Suggestions
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Join Date: 2016-12-21 Member: 225275Members
Join Date: 2016-12-21 Member: 225275Members
Greetings,
In the hope that the developers read this forum from time to time, I'd like to offer a few observations and suggestions after (according to Steam) 45 hours of poking into things in Subnautica. First and foremost, though, my congratulations on creating a fascinating and beautiful game world! I've enjoyed simply Seamoth-ing around looking at things, enough so that resource-gathering, usually an enormous irritant, has occasionally been enjoyable. (That's meant as a compliment, btw. I have ADD and am easily bored, so usually I give up on things like resource-gathering fairly quickly.)
There are, as is inevitable in any game (especially one still under development), some areas I believe could be improved upon. I understand the desire to add challenges to a game, but this must be balanced with the need to provide a thoroughly enjoyable experience for the gamer, and to make the challenges reasonable, and not merely frustrating. And so, on to the suggestions:
Technology: This is the point of origin for all my suggestions and concerns. It often feels as if the technology of the game world has not been rendered consistently. This is a setting in which humans have technology so advanced that interstellar travel is not only possible, but a ho-hum everyday boring occurrence. There's even a datapad in-game on which someone expresses confusion over why anyone would bother with interstellar travel when they could just wait for the VR. And yet I have technology I lying about my home in the real world that greatly surpasses some of what I can make and use in-game (I'm looking at you, flashlight!). All of my suggestions are going to be in this vein: make the technology consistent, please and thank you.
Oxygen: This system could (and should) be functionally eliminated. As it stands, it makes no sense. You can hold your breath for 45 seconds, or scrounge materials to build an oxygen tank... which lasts 30 seconds? SCUBA tanks today last much, much longer. Not only that, but we're so close to being able to make artificial gills now, in the real world, that there has already been at least one company that scammed investors out of money by faking a working prototype. Artificial gills are a perfectly reasonable thing for a civilization with faster-than-light travel and magic construction wands to have, and would probably be attached to every child's swimming mask. Building them could be the first challenge, but after that, having all of one's explorations limited to 75 seconds or less is just annoying. I really feel quite strongly about this one. If the "oxygen" cheat didn't exist, I would have asked Steam for a refund. I simply cannot accept suffocation as a reasonable danger after I've had magic item creation demonstrated as a working technology.
Energy: This needs a serious reworking. Why does this highly technologically advanced society rely on batteries the size of my forearm that don't last as long as a modern-day D-cell when put in a flashlight? And yet they can power a magic building wand through so much matter transmutation that you can build a mansion? If a battery can power the building wand, then in light sources (and all applications less energy-intensive than matter transmutation) they should be effectively infinite. Einstein's famous mathematical formula, E=m*c^2, is real, you know. It gives you an idea of mass-energy equivalences. There is more energy involved in transmuting existing matter into energy, and then back into matter, to make one Seabase room, than has been produced by humanity in its entire existence to date. And yet a battery that can handle this much energy can't power a flashlight or a lightstick for more than a few minutes? That throws me right out of the game.
Material Strength: Again, consistent technology would be a good thing. Matter transmutation, interstellar travel... yet I can't build a seabase that can handle one meter of water? Having had a fair few physics classes in college, I do understand the problems of water pressure, but the application of pressure is so selective in this game as to be meaningless. My character can dive to the lowest depths and surface in a flash, without either having the life crushed out of him or dying of the bends. A seabase is built according to the same rules at 900 m depth and 0.1 m. This doesn't make sense. I would strongly suggest doing away with the pressure mechanic in seabase construction, and applying it to unprotected people and to vehicles only. Or, more reasonably, add in the pressure mechanic for seabases below a certain depth, like 600 or 900 meters. There is nothing gained by making people build ugly seabases, nothing lost by allowing people to build lovely, open structures with lots of whatever the ultra-glass is that this civilization uses. We can build things with windows underwater now. No reason to think it'll start to be impossible in 400 years or so.
The Plot: Finally, technological consistency butts its head against the plot. I'm a bit lost on this one. I like the idea, I like the need to explore to find out what's going on, but I don't quite understand how any of this happened in the first place. Our PDAs can detect the alien energy signatures, but somehow the Aurora and Sunbeam couldn't? And the PDA can detect this energy when all systems are inactive, so it isn't that it's stealthed until used. It's rather disconcerting to have my PDA tell me, "There are alien devices here," and then translate their language from nothing, when no one can detect the same alien tech when it's about to destroy their starships. Also, given the fact that there's a massive alien outpost on one of the only two islands on this part of the planet, any superficial survey of the planet would have detected it. These aliens weren't trying to hide, after all: a quarantine is useless if no one knows about it. And technologically, they seem to have been on the same level as humans (they use personal teleporter gates, but datapads speak of starship teleporter gates, which are rather more impressive). I can think of a few ways to get around this problem, but right now, it's a biggish plot hole.
Final Thoughts: I really am enjoying this game, which is the only reason I've bothered with these suggestions. I do hope they're received in the spirit in which they are intended. I mean to be helpful, not destructive. I believe this could all be addressed with minimal tweaking of the game rules (and, in the case of the alien technology, a couple of datapad entries). And I believe it would be a stronger, more enjoyable game as a result.
Should this be noticed, thank you for your time. I hope it's helpful.
In the hope that the developers read this forum from time to time, I'd like to offer a few observations and suggestions after (according to Steam) 45 hours of poking into things in Subnautica. First and foremost, though, my congratulations on creating a fascinating and beautiful game world! I've enjoyed simply Seamoth-ing around looking at things, enough so that resource-gathering, usually an enormous irritant, has occasionally been enjoyable. (That's meant as a compliment, btw. I have ADD and am easily bored, so usually I give up on things like resource-gathering fairly quickly.)
There are, as is inevitable in any game (especially one still under development), some areas I believe could be improved upon. I understand the desire to add challenges to a game, but this must be balanced with the need to provide a thoroughly enjoyable experience for the gamer, and to make the challenges reasonable, and not merely frustrating. And so, on to the suggestions:
Technology: This is the point of origin for all my suggestions and concerns. It often feels as if the technology of the game world has not been rendered consistently. This is a setting in which humans have technology so advanced that interstellar travel is not only possible, but a ho-hum everyday boring occurrence. There's even a datapad in-game on which someone expresses confusion over why anyone would bother with interstellar travel when they could just wait for the VR. And yet I have technology I lying about my home in the real world that greatly surpasses some of what I can make and use in-game (I'm looking at you, flashlight!). All of my suggestions are going to be in this vein: make the technology consistent, please and thank you.
Oxygen: This system could (and should) be functionally eliminated. As it stands, it makes no sense. You can hold your breath for 45 seconds, or scrounge materials to build an oxygen tank... which lasts 30 seconds? SCUBA tanks today last much, much longer. Not only that, but we're so close to being able to make artificial gills now, in the real world, that there has already been at least one company that scammed investors out of money by faking a working prototype. Artificial gills are a perfectly reasonable thing for a civilization with faster-than-light travel and magic construction wands to have, and would probably be attached to every child's swimming mask. Building them could be the first challenge, but after that, having all of one's explorations limited to 75 seconds or less is just annoying. I really feel quite strongly about this one. If the "oxygen" cheat didn't exist, I would have asked Steam for a refund. I simply cannot accept suffocation as a reasonable danger after I've had magic item creation demonstrated as a working technology.
Energy: This needs a serious reworking. Why does this highly technologically advanced society rely on batteries the size of my forearm that don't last as long as a modern-day D-cell when put in a flashlight? And yet they can power a magic building wand through so much matter transmutation that you can build a mansion? If a battery can power the building wand, then in light sources (and all applications less energy-intensive than matter transmutation) they should be effectively infinite. Einstein's famous mathematical formula, E=m*c^2, is real, you know. It gives you an idea of mass-energy equivalences. There is more energy involved in transmuting existing matter into energy, and then back into matter, to make one Seabase room, than has been produced by humanity in its entire existence to date. And yet a battery that can handle this much energy can't power a flashlight or a lightstick for more than a few minutes? That throws me right out of the game.
Material Strength: Again, consistent technology would be a good thing. Matter transmutation, interstellar travel... yet I can't build a seabase that can handle one meter of water? Having had a fair few physics classes in college, I do understand the problems of water pressure, but the application of pressure is so selective in this game as to be meaningless. My character can dive to the lowest depths and surface in a flash, without either having the life crushed out of him or dying of the bends. A seabase is built according to the same rules at 900 m depth and 0.1 m. This doesn't make sense. I would strongly suggest doing away with the pressure mechanic in seabase construction, and applying it to unprotected people and to vehicles only. Or, more reasonably, add in the pressure mechanic for seabases below a certain depth, like 600 or 900 meters. There is nothing gained by making people build ugly seabases, nothing lost by allowing people to build lovely, open structures with lots of whatever the ultra-glass is that this civilization uses. We can build things with windows underwater now. No reason to think it'll start to be impossible in 400 years or so.
The Plot: Finally, technological consistency butts its head against the plot. I'm a bit lost on this one. I like the idea, I like the need to explore to find out what's going on, but I don't quite understand how any of this happened in the first place. Our PDAs can detect the alien energy signatures, but somehow the Aurora and Sunbeam couldn't? And the PDA can detect this energy when all systems are inactive, so it isn't that it's stealthed until used. It's rather disconcerting to have my PDA tell me, "There are alien devices here," and then translate their language from nothing, when no one can detect the same alien tech when it's about to destroy their starships. Also, given the fact that there's a massive alien outpost on one of the only two islands on this part of the planet, any superficial survey of the planet would have detected it. These aliens weren't trying to hide, after all: a quarantine is useless if no one knows about it. And technologically, they seem to have been on the same level as humans (they use personal teleporter gates, but datapads speak of starship teleporter gates, which are rather more impressive). I can think of a few ways to get around this problem, but right now, it's a biggish plot hole.
Final Thoughts: I really am enjoying this game, which is the only reason I've bothered with these suggestions. I do hope they're received in the spirit in which they are intended. I mean to be helpful, not destructive. I believe this could all be addressed with minimal tweaking of the game rules (and, in the case of the alien technology, a couple of datapad entries). And I believe it would be a stronger, more enjoyable game as a result.
Should this be noticed, thank you for your time. I hope it's helpful.
Comments
Oxygen is this game's signature parameter, so no way it's going to be removed or should be removed (other than an easy mode/exploration mode/game option). The oxygen contents may not be all that realistic, but hey, so's being able to recover from no matter what injury instantly with a first aid kit. And... could it be that you don't know air tanks stack?
Same for energy and hull strength. At least for hull strength goes that the current system isn't refined and might be after V1.0. I rather don't get you'd consider the removal of one of the only two parameters that make base building not a purely creative matter gameplay improvement. I am a huge fan of basebuilding and that's why I want there to be more restrictions/considerations - I like the feel of having to outsmart the environment too, even if only slightly so. Makes the bases more in tune with the location, so to say.
It's not that the Sunbeam, or even the Aurora, didn't pick up the gun. They just didn't recognize it as a weapon. If you're playing the current stable build that might seem preposterous, but it's pretty well disguised in experimental.
I do know air tanks stack, but each one takes up more drastically limited inventory space and only gives another 30 seconds. So, /oxygen.
Also, I do think that making seabase construction primarily creative would be an improvement. Perhaps the pressure component could be added below a certain depth. But it's not only unlovely, it's unrealistic that I should have to clap reinforcement struts all over my seabase when the depth isn't enough to crush a plastic water bottle. I'm willing to buy a heavily reinforced, closed-off, claustrophobic structure at the bottom of this planet's equivalent to the Marianas Trench. But in the shallows? Or under so little water that it wouldn't impede a snorkeler? That's adding challenge for the sake of making the player work around something, not because it fits the setting. It isn't even internally consistent. How does a foundation prevent spontaneous leaks? How does reinforcement on one building prevent leaks on another?
My point isn't that pressure doesn't exist. It's that we can build underwater constructs with lots of windows now, in the real world. To suggest that it will become impossible after our technology advances for another few centuries doesn't make sense. Likewise that a flashlight -- I currently have a Maglite that I can reasonably expect to operate for a day or more of constant use on four D-cell batteries, and they have LED lights now certified for 153 hours -- would drain power faster than a matter transmuter. It breaks the immersion (pun noted, but difficult to avoid). Power management is a good thing. Unrealistic power management is annoying.
Hopefully, if nothing else, the console will still work in the published game. That way I can at least pretend to have access to technology fitting the setting. But I would much, much rather have reasonable constraints than use a cheat to eliminate them.
Future (In Subnautica): Short Lasting Tanks And No Way For Artificial Gills
Thats What Is In The Game.
It would be interesting to see how a Titanium wall created through current methods compares to a Titanium wall created through Fabricator technology. Maybe we are dealing with the Crew version of the Fabricator that leaves in various impurities instead of the Officer version that removes all the impurities in the Titanium.
You did enjoy the ride so far... NMS survival mode would have you spend about 80% of your planetside time just waiting... the other 20% gathering crap to restore those meters you keep waiting on. You get 0 time to actually look around and do what you want... I could go on forever as how that mode wasn't thought through even for a moment and how bad the invetory system is and how you are required to gather enough materials to build a skyscaper to make a tinsy thing going into your hand held gun... Survival games are by their nature are either slow paced and grindy or fast paced hunt/kill deal. We have slow and steady version that didn't **** up any aspect enough for it to be a mindless exercise in boredom and watching paint dry, this isn't Osiris where you need more resources to build one room then you could fit in all the storage you can build. The name of the game is finding a sweet spot for the world devs are trying to create, where it is fun but you aren't just quite entirely uninhibited by anything it would be a movie then rather then a game.
Subnautica had and still sort of has the entire "decompression" mechanic... devs and people did not find it fun and they threw it away and said so "it was NOT fun".
Games in general have "roadblocks" or some means of slowing you down to one degree or another you don't directly go from just starting a game and then seeing the credits. Oxygen is there to slow you down and give you a pause to see the handcrafted world... so is speed to a lesser and more obnoxious degree but it is what it is. You are not wrong but try looking it from another side, who knows maybe you will start to appreciate things that you didn't like before.
And the story has completely lost me. Since all this precursor stuff has been added, I've lost interest, fast. If I could get a refund, I would, because I hate where this "story" has been, and where it's obviously going.
The precursor "gun" is particularly ridiculous and off-putting.
I agree, I would much rather prefer the plot of the game to be "survive on an alien world and explore."
I have to say, though, I don't mind where the plot's been going recently. It definitely adds a bit of intrigue to the world.
You're assuming that a day on this planet (is the planet called Subnautica, or is it just nameless?) lasts 24 hours. But I have no idea how long it's meant to last. And speaking of astronomical things, I don't get the apparently very large moon that roars around in what appears to be a very close, very fast orbit, yet doesn't create mega-tides. (I'm guessing the stars being visible through it is just a glitch, not a hint that it's some sort of holo-moon.)
In any case, given the time scale, yes, that's a pretty impressive length of time to hold one's breath.
Why don't games need to make sense? Every entertainment needs to be internally consistent, to make sense.
I do understand how games work, and alluded to it in my original post. I've been playing video games since 1978, so I've encountered one or two of the basic traits of the genre.
One thing I don't understand about your response is how oxygen makes you appreciate the game world more. The problem with the oxygen mechanic is that I can't slow down and appreciate the game world. I'm forever rushing back to wherever my oxygen is coming from. I have to spend too much time rushing back and forth, and have to do any out-of-sub exploring in a very hurried fashion, never really looking at anything.
Then I type /oxygen, and can actually sit back and look at things, and enjoy the beautiful game setting. I can poke into corners, look under things, explore. It's so much more fun than making every moment a mad scramble from Seamoth to wreck to Seamoth, hoping I don't drown.
I can't even imagine trying to build a base while worrying about oxygen! I just thought of that, and egad. I'd drown every time I tried to place anything.
I think there are ways to salvage this with just a few datapad entries and the like. The exposition is easy to change, and could alter my view of the precursor plot. But I'm definitely disappointed that "winning" means escaping the planet, rather than successfully colonizing and exploring it.
This is a problem likely not unique to you, but also not commonly shared. Only during the short pre-air tank/fins portion of the game do I feel rushed; thereafter I can manage oxygen/exploration without a single conscious thought except for tunnel-heavy wrecks and deciding the exact location of the first module of a new base.
It probs would've been better if you'd asked for an option or mode rather than outright go "This system could (and should) be functionally eliminated.".
Could be 6 hours or it could be 72 hours for each day, but until we get some lore that indicates how long it is, then 24 hours is a decent enough example to show that ingame time is not real time. If a day/night cycle equals 40 minutes, then the world would be wrecked without extremely advanced technology. The Aurora would not get close enough to the planet to do a gravitational slingshot due to how fast everything is moving too fast. So it is safe to assume that like the vast majority of games, ingame time is not real time.
One air tank equals about 50 minutes (75 seconds), assuming they aren't holding their breath for 30 minutes, which sounds about right for recreational diving equipment and the amount of exertion in carrying all your equipment and other strenuous activities like swimming for your life. However, it only works with one tank of air since you are holding your breath for 30 minutes or each tank carries about 20 to 40 minutes of air which is extremely pathetic for an air tank.
This looks like another clash of the explorers vs survivalists thread to a degree. Personally, I've never really had to worry about oxygen outside of large wrecks and caves systems. With two tanks it's more than enough, even without the upgrade for them, to look around and appreciate the scenery. Why can't you look around while in the Seamoth if the air mechanic bothers you?
Eh, there's already the oxygen cheat, and presumably the game will be moddable after release even if they strip out all the cheat codes. No need to ask for what I already have. I provided my reasoning along with my opinion, and I stand by both. No reason not to -- it's my opinion, after all, not universal law which the devs must follow.
Well, firstly, the Aurora would probably have had issues with the tidal forces created by that huge, close, incredibly fast moon. As would anyone living in that ocean, as the tides would probably be half a mile high (and yes there are tides even when there's no shoreline). So I think astronomical realism went out the window first thing. Also, I wasn't assuming the game happened in real time.
But the time is a problem. Your calculations make sense, but they reveal the underlying flaw in sped-up time scales: the player is moving at our real-world speed while the rest of the universe is moving (if you're correct) 36 times as fast. So the oxygen tank plus holding one's breath gives 45 minutes underwater... but in that 45 minutes of game time you can't move as far as a real diver could in 45 minutes of real time.
The former physics student in me wants to start calculating an appropriate time scale based on game distance relative to real distance, time of travel, time spent in various activities, etc. so that a realistic model for metabolism of oxygen, food, water, and everything else can be devised. But the rest of me says forget it and just use the oxygen cheat (or hope the devs read this and implement more consistent future-tech).
Haven't timed it and it is based on a post I found that said 20 minutes of daylight and 15 minutes of night. So a day is 35 minutes long or about 40 minutes.
Would make them more important and make tank upgrades require more thought and planning.