No Gorging At Start
Kid-A
Join Date: 2002-12-17 Member: 10908Members
Join Date: 2002-12-17 Member: 10908Members
<div class="IPBDescription">More skulks</div> One idea Iv'e been toying with is NO gorges at the very start. Everyone goes skulk until someone has 33(maybe less you want to hit 33 as you get to the hive) res so that they then run to an empty hive.
They then use thier normal gorge strat. Which for me is cap two res (3 inc 1st hive). Then wait for hive.
You may get slightly less gorge res right away, but all the skulks should also be full quicker so you should rake in the res very quickly.
This also brings up the idea of a none dedicated gorge. A gorge secures a location goes back to another form then when a gorge is needed elsewhere the closet person gorges. Left over res goes into the pool so should really matter.
Discuss.
They then use thier normal gorge strat. Which for me is cap two res (3 inc 1st hive). Then wait for hive.
You may get slightly less gorge res right away, but all the skulks should also be full quicker so you should rake in the res very quickly.
This also brings up the idea of a none dedicated gorge. A gorge secures a location goes back to another form then when a gorge is needed elsewhere the closet person gorges. Left over res goes into the pool so should really matter.
Discuss.
Comments
Stroke the Gorge <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='pudgy.gif'><!--endemo-->
That would be bad in a pub as you would end up with 2 or 3 guys going gorge at once, when 1 full-time gorge>3 part time ones. Once those skulks get full, the res just flies in, where if you are constantly morphing back and forth between gorge and skulk, that time wouldn't come until possibly to late. I know I have gorge'd well when I get that res boost when I have about 60 res(when saving for hive #2), and 2 DC's up, along with 3 nodes total capped.(including the 1 you start with)
Stroke the Gorge <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='pudgy.gif'><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wrong.
One gorge is ALWAYS best.
Having people go from skulk->gorge->skulk again is just a waste of 17 resources, 13 if they kill themselves. If they just stayed at 33/33 resources, the gorge would get all the overflow anyway, and no resources would be wasted by people putting up RTs, when the full time gorge could do it himself, but not lose resources for the team.
Stroke the Gorge <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='pudgy.gif'><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wrong.
One gorge is ALWAYS best.
Having people go from skulk->gorge->skulk again is just a waste of 17 resources, 13 if they kill themselves. If they just stayed at 33/33 resources, the gorge would get all the overflow anyway, and no resources would be wasted by people putting up RTs, when the full time gorge could do it himself, but not lose resources for the team.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
no, see you are wrong. one gorge is not ALWAYS best. when ns first came out, we had 5 gorges, were happy, and won. all the damned time. now everybody is saying that there is a specific way to do things. like ONE GORGE only!!!1 or... DC->MC->SC!!!1 or many other things. you need to try out new things. like gorge rushing... it works! and also you say its a bad idea for a gorge to evolve, make a rc and then devolve. what, so we should wait for the gorge on the totally other side of the map to get to that resource point and build a resource chamber? bah <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='pudgy.gif'><!--endemo-->
1 dedicated gorge from the start <b>is</b> the best way to play, its his build order that is worth more discussion. Also where he decides to build his RT's can be a key point. For example, on eclipse the gorge could go and secure the horseshoe res point first. Now chances are the marines are going to find this res point and start attacking it, this is going to slow down the marines from expanding IF they do decide to attack it, and while they are skulks can always rush them from the nearby ceiling vent. On the other hand, if they decide to just leave it alone because its more trouble than its worth then you have that res point <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
A lot of gorges would rather build res points at "secure" places like hives but you have to consider that if the marines move to a hive (Which is a much more likely place for them to move than the horseshoe) then they WILL destroy that res point after getting up their phase etc.
4-5 RTs, THEN 2nd hive. then DT, and OT/DT BOTH hives
why? so that when the fade becomes an option, aliens can evolve QUICKLY to fade. requires excellent skulks.
also, the gorge will have a WHACK of rez to D up hives. and to properly defend against JP, sieges, it takes a SCHWACK or rez.
IMHO.
If a skulk goes gorge and caps a res on the far side of the map from the 'dedicated' gorge, then you will have gotten a NET PROFIT because the dedicated gorge would have taken 5 minutes just go get to that far-away res node in the first place. If the other skulk caps it, then he earns RPs for what would have been the transit time of the dedicated gorge. It's a NET PROFIT. You cannot argue with that. No single dedicated gorge can cap all the rest as fast.
What's worst is when you 'one gorge only' fanatics start trying to justify your ludicrous position with math. It doesn't add up.
No, one gorge <b>IS</b> best.
Gorge rush is a gimmick, which CAN work but it is not anything guaranteed versus decent marines.
If you have 33 res, and the dedicated gorge is saving for the hive, then you just waste 13 RUs, AND slow down the completion of the hive by going gorge, and building a RT. Sure if the gorge is stupid, and/or not very good, he will have large excesses of money which he does not spend. If he keeps his money down, there will be RTs all over the map. YOU DO NOT NEED EVERY SINGLE RT ON THE MAP FROM THE VERY START OF THE GAME! Wow, you see an un-occupied RT. Good for you. Now go do something useful by killing marines. The gorge will be by when he has resouces to build that RT.
gorge>>RT>>DC>>OC>>OC>>hive If your saving for hive get another gorg (7 player +) to build RT.
Defend that second hive asap. Its not a clan game so u cant rely on skulks to keep marines out of your hives.
Wat exactly do u think those marines are doing while u build 5 RT? There bloody well securing 2 hives asap, build DC asap to give your skulks a chance and get OC up for deterence and second line def.
1: A gorg dieing is a huge blow, res loss + res not gained loss + time lost + gorg evolve res = ouch.
2: a cara gorg next to a DC is bloody hard for 2 lmg + no upgrades to kill
3: OC are very good at close range, hug them and the marines will die.
Please dont play pub gorg the same way u play in a clan match.
Oh and if u gorg use voice please.
optional: gorge #2 after the 3rd dc has been built, fortify.
my brother insists on 3 dc before anything else to give the skulks in early advantage, but by the time he get the third dc, it's equivelent to the time it took for me to do the things i mentioned above.
i play with speed and fire power in mind.
-More skulks in initial rush
-Faster Movement more versitile for the 'gorge to be'
-Less chance of losing gorge at start (the gorge is alive a shorter time therefore marines have less opportunity to kill it.
Cons
-No securing of initial hive or upgrade chambers
-Possibly a slightly slower income
Now for me I don't build chambers until the hive is building just RT's so there's virtually only Pro's as far as I can see. You may have a different view tho. Obvioulsy doesn't work on Pubs as no gorge will usually = n00b gorge who takes the place.
I suspect the people who are saying > 1 gorge is good are people who havent actually played NS in a clan situation.
I suspect the people who are saying > 1 gorge is good are people who havent actually played NS in a clan situation.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Exactly. Have you EVER seen a good clan play by having skulks go gorge, then building a RT, and morphing back to skulk? NO.
On public servers, it is possible to get 1-2 RTs before you need to get a DC or two, but in clan games, the DC goes in first most of the time, otherwise the skulks just get creamed.
Ok, multiple gorges is not THAT bad, its just another skulk off the line, eating up half the teams resources, when one gorge could do the exact same thing in the same amount of time...
The thing that is really completely and utterly bad is the skulk->gorge->RT->skulk bullsh*t. That is a minimum of 13 RUs <b><i><u>WASTED</u></i></b>, when you could just let your gorge do it from the overflow.
Say the skulks did it 4 times.
Best case scenario:
All four skulks are without carapace, and kill themselves once their RT is up.
-52 alien resources. That is ALMOST enough for a hive, or the ONE gorge could put up 2.5 extra RTs with that cash.
Worst case scenario:
All four skulks have carapace starting out, go gorge, build the RT, and then morph skulk again.
-52 for the RTs
-16 for the morph back to skulk
Total of 68 RUs. <--<b><i><u>HUGE</u></i></b> waste of alien money.
- at the begining, all the skulk attack (except gorge), if they die the ressource goes to the gorge.
- one gorge have faster ressource than a method of 0 or 2,3 etc... to build the FIRST ressource node (it's mathematic)
- have a lot of skulk always attacking keep pressure on the marines and slow them to evolve and to progress on the map.
So a method of 0 gorge can be fun and very effective, but you need a really good team of skulk <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
which is good to be confident in yourself and your strats ;0
BUT I do believe and im quite sure the best way is to have 1 gorge, and get d tower first. Then depending at the rate ur skulks are killing the marines or losing to the marines, you either go for the next rt or for the second d tower, and you move from there. You should cap at LEAST 3 rt's before saving for the hive, and you should never save for the second hive, without having 3D towers up. of course in my opinion ;0
1. Go gorge.
2. Build an OC
3. Build an RT
4. Go skulk
5. Camp until the main gorge can get there
Yes, I suppose I'm "wasting" 17 rp here. But the RT makes them back for the team. And, let's keep in mind people, the goal is to <b>win the game</b>, not save up more rp than the humans.
If youre under a little pressure: 2dc/rt/dc/rt/*
If youre under heavy pressure: 3dc/rt/*
If your skulks are containing them: rt/3dc/rt/*
I agree wholeheartedly with monkey about the gorge thing. You say you get 13 res back in a minute, but everyone forget's to figure in the time until full. If you went gorge when you were "full" you have to equate the time to when that occurs again, as that is when that 1 full-time gorge really gets res flowing in, and can make typically a lot of things quick. I know on a 14 player server, if I am the only player who went gorge I can have some decently defenses at hive #2, and be doing the same with hive #1, while still having res to get up that 2nd upgrade when the hive completes. In my opinion, that is much more important then capping another rt...
As to starting without a gorge ... eh, no. You want to double your income (ie get the first res tower up) as soon as possible. Waiting till everyone has 33 res on just the starting tower will take about 6 minutes.
I've got a <a href='http://www.dtek.chalmers.se/~matso/resmdl.xls' target='_blank'>spreadsheet</a> that shows some timings and incomes for various common builds and team sizes.
If you want to fear something, take a look at max tech speed for a 16 player marine team. After 3 minutes, MT/HMG/GL/HA/WU1/AU1 is paid for.
If you have 2 hives and enough res to go fade then you have already won.
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O towers ? LOL. The BEST gorge build orders:
If youre under a little pressure: 2dc/rt/dc/rt/*
If youre under heavy pressure: 3dc/rt/*
If your skulks are containing them: rt/3dc/rt/*
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Agreed completely, DC's before RT's all the way.
For those who disagree, try playing eclipse without carapace until the first RT is up. You die... lots...
I don't understand the advantages of going no gorge until everyone's got 33 res. Isn't the point to have gorges going and capping RTs, building, etc, as soon as possible? My RTS instincts tell me that you should be building all the time, no matter what...