So When Are We Going To See Non-spacestation Map?

SuperNintendoChalmersSuperNintendoChalmers Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 4414Members
It's starting to get really boring to play in these repetitive space-station maps. I appreciate their detail and fantastic lighting, but they're just getting boring. Everything seems so boxed in and repetitive.

I think people should be looking for new location ideas. Places like dark caverns, where the marines start near the surface and have to work their way down through winding passages to the hives. Try thinking of StarCraft locales, and how you could fit the aliens into a situation like the zerg. It's a big universe, and we're only playing in space ships.

<img src='http://www.penny-arcade.com/images/2001/20011128l.gif' border='0' alt='user posted image'>

Comments

  • ObliteraterObliterater Join Date: 2002-11-22 Member: 9652Members
    The reason every map is a space station or a reaserch thingy on some planet is because NS doesnt work with large locations. Imagine as a skulk trying to get close to a Marine when your in the middle of a desert. And about the dark cavrens, I think a whole bunch of cave type maps are being made right now.
  • Lord_RequiemLord_Requiem Join Date: 2002-11-20 Member: 9481Members
    ns_genesis starts marines in an outdoor forest type of area, they are in a firebase/fort, and they must invade the alien hives which are all underground in caves. It is in early production at this time, and I will post screenshots later this week.
  • InsaneInsane Anomaly Join Date: 2002-05-13 Member: 605Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Subnautica Developer, Pistachionauts, Future Perfect Developer
    The map fits in with the continutity as long as it is located in a human facility that has been overrun by Kahraa. I'm not noticing any monotony at all, I think they are all very different maps. Maybe Cory's new textures and some new maps will relieve the monotony you seem to be experiencing.
  • KungFuSquirrelKungFuSquirrel Basher of Muttons Join Date: 2002-01-26 Member: 103Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
    For the record, not that it probably matters, Hera and Eclipse are planetary facilities and Bast and Nancy are ships, not space station maps. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
  • InsaneInsane Anomaly Join Date: 2002-05-13 Member: 605Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Subnautica Developer, Pistachionauts, Future Perfect Developer
    Caged is also a ship I believe. In fact, Nothing is the only Space Station <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
  • SuperNintendoChalmersSuperNintendoChalmers Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 4414Members
    I've played europa, and eventhough it's setting is "underwater" it still feels like a space-ship. I like the sound of Genisis though. People need to think of ways of changing the scenery more then just the setting of the map. You could say it's underwater, on a planet, an asteroid or wherever the **** you want, but they're all still on facilities of somesort and if you don't read the storyline to the map it's possible to go forever without figuring out where the thing is.

    There need to be settings that haven't been overun with technology, the textures are just getting to repetitive. New locations like temples on deserted planets, or jungles (which can be hard to do with the Half-Life engine i know, but 3D-Mike has done some incredible things for CS with trees. Just check out cs_greenhouse or de_predator).

    Try to forget the storyline written by the NS team, and think of a map that would be fun to play. Then build the story around it. Don't dismiss ideas like open maps, because there are ways around problems like that and if your putting yourself in a trap of mirroring the maps allready in existence. Don't be afraid to make stupid little maps, because they get the creative juices flowing and may lead to great ideas.
  • KeksImperiumKeksImperium Join Date: 2002-11-19 Member: 9300Members
    i agree with him

    it like only dust stile maps for cs
    (postet this before)

    what all ns levels have alike is that they play in a marine struckture

    no natural maps
    none!
  • coilcoil Amateur pirate. Professional monkey. All pance. Join Date: 2002-04-12 Member: 424Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
    Origin is pretty nice, though still needs work (it's in b1 atm). There are several other really nice ones.
  • ImaTargetImaTarget Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 3415Members
    because, in a wood you dont have a nanogrid ergo no buildings. jea, lets just forget the storyline... <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> NOT. I kinda agree that there is just so much you can do with spacecraft and similar things. Alas i also agree that its better to stick to the official storyline then just cough up a map thats totally different but hasn?t anything to do with the NS theme. you can?t compare the current map situation with "only dust" its like there are only maps with "dust textures" wich is imho the one most limiting thing at the moment. try and find some decent SF type textures wich are not too quake or unreal like and are also public domain. as long as the maps are playing different i am very happy. After all, no one payed money for NS nor does anyone get money for creating conent for it.

    Also lets not forget that the mod just got released. Have you any idea how long it took till there where decent custom CS maps? if my memory serves around beta 4 (i know it was the first release of dust that really got the ball rolling) or so the first started to appear and starting with 5 it became no problem at all to get good custom maps. I dont want to attack you i just want to give you something to think about. Don?t expect what you have in CS now for NS. CS and its mapping community had years to grow. Give it some time and you will have more custom maps for NS then you would ever need.
  • sySTEm1sySTEm1 Join Date: 2002-12-20 Member: 11222Members
    forthcoming map by.. me <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> intrepid is based on an asteroid (bit different) tis a mining type area, settings will be a mixture of rocky caverns / mines and futuristic areas similar to that of nothing and caged, industrial feeling mixed with rocky outcroppings and etc.
  • Lord_RequiemLord_Requiem Join Date: 2002-11-20 Member: 9481Members
    Don't forget the fact that NS as a mod is at least 3 times more difficult to map for than CS, and 5 times more difficult to map WELL.
  • RevenantRevenant Join Date: 2003-01-13 Member: 12249Members
    The only other thing not suggested that I can think of that has a very unlikely chance of working for an NS map is . . . . The storyline goes onwards to one of the following:

    a) The Kharaa reach Earth.
    b) TSA Find Kharaa Origin Planet

    May I say I do not advise these, but with my limited mind these are the only things I can think of.
  • BytorBytor Join Date: 2002-11-19 Member: 9323Members
    Seems to me it would be very difficult to make a "natural" looking alien and/or cave environment without quickly running into the engine limits. I dunno, just openly speculating here ...
  • KeksImperiumKeksImperium Join Date: 2002-11-19 Member: 9300Members
    well i will try it the next weeks <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->

    old mine shaft or a volcano......
  • Lord_RequiemLord_Requiem Join Date: 2002-11-20 Member: 9481Members
    Thats what makes it so much fun. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
  • DrownDrown Underwater Join Date: 2002-12-02 Member: 10392Members
    Its conceivable that for the story line, marines could set up portable offensive nano-relays, allowing nanotech to be used within a small area on a world (within the given map) -- a situational idea such as the actuall invasion of a native alien nest. Of course, alien info beyond hives is next to nil, other than they like to infest marine stuff..?

    What'd be cool is if mappers could play with victory conditions... ala team goal style.. allowing for lots of new types of map, such as the aliens have to complete 3 hives, and disable the marine interface (destroy 5 powergrid bypasses) -- and the marines start off in controll of them.

    etc ect.. map ideas abound with those..

    ns_goal
    ns_teamgoal

    anyhow, thats off topic.. just remember "portalble nano-relay station" deployable via phase! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->

    (maybe we should make a set of ns_prefabs for mappers to distribute.. you know .. effects of mass production)
  • BreadManBreadMan Join Date: 2002-12-15 Member: 10854Members, Retired Developer
    <!--QuoteBegin--^Requiem^+Jan 16 2003, 03:12 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (^Requiem^ @ Jan 16 2003, 03:12 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Don't forget the fact that NS as a mod is at least 3 times more difficult to map for than CS, and 5 times more difficult to map WELL.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    True dat <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->

    <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Seems to me it would be very difficult to make a "natural" looking alien and/or cave environment without quickly running into the engine limits. I dunno, just openly speculating here ... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Not necessarily <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> There are ways. I'll show you in a couple weeks or so, still working on getting a final layout that plays right, though I'm starting to add detail in places. And yes, I am one of the 3,000 people or so who is working on a map set in a mining facility.
  • SuperNintendoChalmersSuperNintendoChalmers Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 4414Members
    Even though NS is a young mod, there are still a ton of mappers out their that are experienced with working in the HL engine. CS took a while to accumulate custom maps, because not many people were mapping for that style of gameplay back then. Allmost every multiplayer game out there was pure deathmatch untill TFC. But now there are allot of mappers who are really experienced in creating team oriented maps, even though they may not be NS maps. It shouldn't take as long as CS did to get good custom maps.

    I think we should get a few mappers from the CS and DoD communities interested in NS. CS may be flooded with small dust-clones and fun maps, but there are some quality mappers out there, and allot of them cut back on details because they're worried about round-based play. In NS the maps have a little bit more flexibility, they can be bigger with more detail and the gameplay doesn't suffer as much. If you know a mapper that doesn't work on NS yet, maybe you could get them to do a little part-time help to see if they like mapping for NS.
  • BigDBigD [OldF] Join Date: 2002-10-25 Member: 1596Members
    Another thing is to give a FEEL where you are...
    You'd never know nancy was a spaceship if it weren't for the cockpit. Tanith is a hovering research station or something, but other than the area near the marine spawn (and that particular area gives the feel quite well if you ask me), you'd never know it though, the occaisonal groans creaks of the ships hull from time to time are good. What maps need are some WINDOWS. Don't be afraid to show off a skybox of stars, or terrain, or what-have-you. In fact, all the hives so far feel more like dungeons. Mind you, that's part of the NS feel, being in cramped location, but my map will have some areas where you can look outside. Although, I only feel Bast and Caged are the only really similar maps. Play Hera or Eclipse for a bit, then play Nothing. Very different feels to those two maps.

    So far, I have a design layout on paper, and a readyroom in worldcraft. It will be a research base on the edge of barren planets' ocean. Nice relaxing on the beach, while skulks feed you margaritas and gorge's dance in coconut bikinis! (Umm... no...)
  • SuperNintendoChalmersSuperNintendoChalmers Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 4414Members
    Hera's got a nice walkway by the Marine spawn that shows off the skybox, and you get some kind of idea of where you are fighting.
  • ParasiteParasite Join Date: 2002-04-13 Member: 431Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--Insane+Jan 16 2003, 02:28 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Insane @ Jan 16 2003, 02:28 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Caged is also a ship I believe. In fact, Nothing is the only Space Station <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    caged has a sewer....I cant say Ive ever been on a space "ship" before but I imagine thiers no sewer <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
  • AlignAlign Remain Calm Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 5216Forum Moderators, Constellation
    Why not? They cant flush toilet contents out into space, that could become a hazard... if not likely.
  • Capt_Blaskawitz4uCapt_Blaskawitz4u Join Date: 2002-11-13 Member: 8515Members
    I'm sorry but the whole theme of NS is based around the Kharaa infesting a space station or something. They can't exactly infest a forest can they. The idea of a cave a bit like that of Halo is a good idea though. I considered doing that myself but at the moment of do not have the time to work on such a big project.
  • KeksImperiumKeksImperium Join Date: 2002-11-19 Member: 9300Members
    no one wants a forrest <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->

    its impossible due to jetpack and lerk
  • SuperNintendoChalmersSuperNintendoChalmers Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 4414Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--Capt.Blaskawitz^4u+Jan 17 2003, 01:38 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Capt.Blaskawitz^4u @ Jan 17 2003, 01:38 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I'm sorry but the whole theme of NS is based around the Kharaa infesting a space station or something. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Would people drop the storyline for just once. I know it's important to the maps playability to have something that makes sense, but just because they give you spacestations doesn't mean you absolutely HAVE to build them. It's getting to be exactly like what that guy said about dust maps, people are getting stuck in a rut.

    As for forests. You could allways have branches up high to scout out on. If you were a lerk, Skulk or a Marine with a jetpack you could hide out. And that kind of thinking is exactly what i'm talking about. "Nobody wants a forest, it's impossible to jetpack...", what do you think you're doing with a freaking jetpack inside a facility. Yeah that makes allot more sense.
  • Carbon14Carbon14 Join Date: 2002-07-29 Member: 1025Members, Retired Developer
    I think the main thing wrong with the current maps is that in most of them you have no idea where you are supposed to be.

    Sorry Relic, but Bast has to be the worst offender, with absolutely no indication of where you are. It could be an underground facility, or a spacestation for all I know.

    Hera is the best for having a feel to where you are, mainly because of the outdoors view you get in one place and the rock cave type areas. Well done Merk, and I have to say, it seems to be a map that most people consider to be filled with atmosphere.

    I don't know how many of you have played USS Darkstar, but to me, that set of maps was very well done, and I felt as if I was on a spaceship all the time.

    All I can say is that before you start saying that people should avoid making spacestations/spaceships, I think you should consider that it most of the official maps don't really have an indication of where you are. Therefore maybe if the mapper put a lot of effort into creating an atmosphere, this style of map isn't so bad after all.
  • FieariFieari Join Date: 2002-10-22 Member: 1566Members, Constellation
    The coolest... okay, not the coolest, but one of the cooler things about NS is the very fact that everything, EVERYTHING right down to the health meter, fits the setting and the story perfectly. To that end, I've seen posts made in the forums offering bug reports, statistical analysis, or feature suggestions that were done entirely in an "In Character" format...

    This mod lends itself to a story FAR more than CS could ever hope, dream, or imagine.
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