Bad idea to make Stab Worth It(TM)
meatmachine
South England Join Date: 2013-01-06 Member: 177858Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Supporter
South England Join Date: 2013-01-06 Member: 177858Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Supporter
Stab - Bio 7 (or whatever)
Upon landing 2 consecutive hits on a single marine within X amount of time (1sec which would be enough time for a fade to swipe twice at max speed, though could be longer to allow for blinking, though it might make the ability a little too powerful if fades can move evasively AND gain a damage bonus), the third hit within ~1 sec is Stab - Double swipe damage, no startup delay, however fade may not attack for 1.25 secs afterwards.
Heck, if that was too strong you could even make it so it only triggered after 3 consecutive hits without missing.
Even with the modifications made to stab, it's not really worth getting or using. Why not make it so fades are rewarded for decent accuracy (even if they're walkers) with an awesome looking 1-2-3 combo attack that does bonus damage, evening out the playing field against heavily armored marines. At bio 7 you'd expect marines to be at least A2, so this would make them a 3-hit kill, IF you land the swipes without missing, and fast.
Maybe a bad idea, but had to get it out here for peer review :P
Upon landing 2 consecutive hits on a single marine within X amount of time (1sec which would be enough time for a fade to swipe twice at max speed, though could be longer to allow for blinking, though it might make the ability a little too powerful if fades can move evasively AND gain a damage bonus), the third hit within ~1 sec is Stab - Double swipe damage, no startup delay, however fade may not attack for 1.25 secs afterwards.
Heck, if that was too strong you could even make it so it only triggered after 3 consecutive hits without missing.
Even with the modifications made to stab, it's not really worth getting or using. Why not make it so fades are rewarded for decent accuracy (even if they're walkers) with an awesome looking 1-2-3 combo attack that does bonus damage, evening out the playing field against heavily armored marines. At bio 7 you'd expect marines to be at least A2, so this would make them a 3-hit kill, IF you land the swipes without missing, and fast.
Maybe a bad idea, but had to get it out here for peer review :P
Comments
If swipe is your selected weapon, nothing changes, stab is never used.
BUT if you select stab as your weapon... it appears to be the same, until you land your 2nd consecutive swipe, then the next attack is the stab swing which does double damage but has a long cooldown afterwards.
Originally I was thinking no selection of stab necessary, passive upgrade to primary attack. However with the delay after stabbing (so it's not a flat DPS increase against structures or whatever- NOT that I'd be opposed to this since fades structure dmg is measly anyway) I guess choice is better.
Also bare in mind the cooldown after stabbing would just be for attacking - fades would still be able to blink or whatever.
And it's after 2 consecutive hits within a certain timeframe, not the second hit, else you'd be able to guaranteed (as in, medpacks wont save them) 2 shot lower armor marines which is bad.
Keep the cooldown separate like boneshield and don't slow the fade down like regular stab does and it would be a pretty nice upgrade.
What happens on the 4th consecutive hit, is that a stab as well? Can you turn in to a stabbing machine instagibbing armorless marines like dominos?
I purposely worded the original post such that this case is included and your question is answered there. tl;dr no, and no
Personally I think in a hypothetical cursory implementation it's not worth worrying about these use cases unless something is obviously wrong, but of course that's the wonder of modifications, they change stuff!
However, this ability would make focus obsolete. The time to kill A2/3 marines is 2.925s using focus (without stab) as opposed to 1.95s using stab (without focus):
A2:
Base: 100/70
Swipe: 66/31
Swipe: 16/0
Swipe: 0/0
TTK: 2.925s
A3:
Base: 100/90
Swipe: 66/51
Swipe: 32/12
Swipe: 0/0
TTK: 2.925s
Stab (No Focus):
A2:
Base: 100/70
Swipe: 78/44
Swipe: 56/18
Swipe: 0/0
TTK: 1.95s
A3:
Base: 100/90
Swipe: 78/64
Swipe: 56/38
Swipe: 0/0
TTK: 1.95s
There's no reason to get focus once stab is researched. Alternatively, with focus, you could lower the stab requirement to a single swipe. This lowers the time to kill to exactly 1.95s, but you'd be two-shotting marines regardless of armor level. Also, it would be frivolously easy to trigger stab if you only need to land one swipe. It would be a nightmare for exos.
Thanks for the numbers though man, I was a little vague about some of the proposed values in OP because I couldn't remember off the top of my head what the fade swipe speed is :P (and because of course, these are always open to discussion)
Let's say the stab combo is 'broken' after 0.9 seconds (that's less than the attack speed of focus swipes right? if not, adjust accordingly) - that'd mean focus actually doesn't allow the stab combo to activate, so you now have two options -
You have stab, and you dont get focus - You're now stronger than usual when being walker fade (come on, everybody does it a little bit!)
You have stab and you get focus - Hit and run strats make you still strong, you dont need to worry about stab because it doesn't apply to you.
It raises the skill floor a leeetle tiny bit for fades in the late game, devalues medpack spam for high armor marines, does something -useful- with an animation asset we rarely get to see, plus, it is inkeeping with the theme of fades receiving upgrades that cross over with other hive abilities *cough*metabolise*cough*advancedmetabolise*cough*
A simpler changes would fit the Fade's hit-n-run role better. eg:
-Reduce Stab wind up time (possibly introduce a 0.5 second no-blink period afterwards for balance).
-Change Stab animation to two rapid attacks, similar to the Axe. (Rather boring, but effective for assassinating unarmoured marines)
-Change stab activation mechanism to: tap attack to swipe once, hold attack button for 1 second to charge up a high damage Stab. If released too early, the attack will be a swipe.
e.g.
*player presses stab*
FADE waits a bit
FADE blinks forward
BAM and the FADE stabs!
Did the devs never consider acidrockets as 3rd weapon.. and if yes.. what are the reasons against it... even at high biomass and quite weak.. like spit...
the best fix for stab has already been proposed countless times by me, that is by holding down left mouse button a basic attack becomes a heavy attack, the more you hold, the more damage, and while doing this you cannot blink or jump so that it remain true to the original design just a little more practical.
I think it's an awesome idea, if they dont implement anything like acid rockets or the other ideas, even though there are often lot's of skullks left if the marines can still hold their ground. It's often like that because to many lifeforms died...
But then it would be incorrect to call it stab
I personally think stab should be replaced with some kind of cc ability.