About the Cyclops health update
prototype464
North Carolina, United States Join Date: 2017-03-16 Member: 228993Members
North Carolina, United States Join Date: 2017-03-16 Member: 228993Members
This video shows the cyclops health stuff, and I had a few thoughts and opinions about it.
1. The Cyclops caught fire too much.
2. Silent running needs some buffs.
3. The cyclops needs extra modules like a sprinkler system for fires or repair drones on the outside to repair damage.
What do you guys think?
Comments
I could be an attitude issue since up till now the cyclops was the invincible tank mother-ship and final boss beneath the waves of Planet 4546B. Perhaps we need to adjust our perception to seeing it as a delicate mobile base for the player's logistical supply train to consolidate territory he's comfy in but doesn't want to setup something permanent. One thing is certain, as is, the cyclops is not tip of the spear equipment, even the seamoth is a tank compared to the delicate flower the cyclops has become.
For balance I think allowing the shields to remain on indefinitely while continuously eating energy like an army of fat kids in a candy shop would be fair. It returns the cyclops to the front lines with a fight or flight capability but with an urgency since the old powercell chargers inside the sub trick can't keep up with that monstrous appetite. An armor upgrade wouldn't be complained about either. I'm not a fan of the 100 Ti pickup game, I've replayed though the game many times and that part is the worst, repeating that game inside the same play-through, that's an invitation to get more players antiquated with the debug console. A cocktail of exotic ingredients is far more fun to gather (if making player's lives hell is a core objective then include a healthy supply of silver in the required mix). Something I've harped on but I think fabricating exotic ingredients should cost more energy (as opposed to time which caused lots of debate and was ultimately nerfed into meaninglessness), as in starting at 150 per item, with some requiring 500 (showing up at a moonpool with a drained ion-cell is far nastier than being told you don't have enough energy yet). Crazy people can build huge solar farms while everyone else keeps a bank of nuclear reactors (a power source who's monumental capacity isn't justified alone by supporting the return of the once in a blue moon extended prawn/seamoth with ion-cell expedition).
If the devs want to be our super awesome bffs, include an upgrade that adds stasis-gun/propulsion-cannon turrets to the 3 camera positions, like an underwater B-17. With that I'd be completely fine with the fragileness of the cyclops while still classing it as a front line exploration vehicle.
Maybe couple the shield with the power cells but then make it last as long as you can power it? Make it not as effective that way but repell creatures that attack you while shielded? So you are not totally immune while shielded but take way less damage?
Would love it if the Cyclops would be more sturdy and had options to fight damage mabye half automated (Sprinkler/repair drones...). That way you don't have to panic at the sight of every single creature.
Silent running should indeed help a little more to make the Cyclops uninteresting again. I think that after one or two hits each creature should notice "Hey that is no prey and it tastes bad.". So why do they keep attacking if you take the noise and light stimuli away? I mean the Cyclops clearly does not look like a mating rival to any creature so a continued attack at least for me does not make that much sense.
Maybe add an option to repell attackers? A perimeter defense system for the Cyclops would be nice paired with an option to charge up its Power cells solar or thermal wise?
Your thoughts on my two cents for this health update?
They will most likely adjust the pace of the Cyclops' destruction based on player feedback at that time.
They have shown a tendency to make the game mechanics friendlier toward non-hardcore players, so I would imagine if the Cyclops is found by a large number of players to be difficult to maintain, They will adjust it accordingly.
I only have one suggestion; reduce attack frequency of the creatures and, if necessary, increase their damage to make up for it. Currently as soon as the player finishes repairing there's a good chance they're going to need to begin repairing again immediately. This is tedious and very not fun. Optimally you'd want enough time to react to and address a creature attack plus a little extra to allow the player some "free time" to do whatever they're trying to do(relieves stress built up over the attacks and allows the player to avoid further assault).
If the player ignores addressing the attack (repairing) the damage of the attack should determine how fragile the cyclops "feels". This is the part you can play with- 2 attacks to destroy the cyclops and it feels made of paper, 20+ attacks to destroy it and will feel unstoppable. Either way the player (optimally)has more than enough time to react to each one and prevent losing their cyclops so it never feels unfair. Of course, exceptions for leviathans would make sense.
I'd go with:
- Possibly reducing the frequency of attacks
- Reduce the frequency of fire, but make fire much more dangerous (i.e. more prone to spreading).
- A longer count down after the Cyclops has been critically damaged (to give the player more time to evacuate after it is clear that the sub can't be saved).
But honestly, self-repair or sprinkler systems would just take too much out of the gameplay.
P.S. Anyone think that one should be able to dynamite large deposits early in the game?
SERIOUSLY all the weapons we have is a vortex and gas torpedo and a hot knife as weapons
The devs decided they didn't want their game to be another shoot-em-up so part of the flavor is an absence of weapons. The unintended side effect is that it pushed the game into the horror genre, which imho was a good thing. There are other methods of damaging stuff (prawn suit punching and seamoth electro-discharge are murderous), you just have to be creative.
After more playtesting I found my first dead cyclops was mostly caused by bugs affecting the sea level near the precursor gun. Reapers on their own aren't an overwhelming threat. Mostly it's the oddness of bonesharks being a pain when an armored seamoth can plow through effortlessly (armored seamoth can also ram a cyclops to death). Bigger problem is that prawn suit docking has always been tricky, lost of stuff that does zero damage to the suit like landing on top of the cyclops will quickly send the cyclops to the bottom. One bump and there's a fire, kind of excessive. I haven't taken a new cyclops through the DGR yet but given my past experience maneuvering
there it will be a no go zone unless you have a shield and are really patient.
Because the Dev's decided early on in the development stage, that this game would not be about the "Killer Instinct" inherent in the human psyche.
Therefore, They concluded that weapons would be a minimal part of the overall game play.
1 Either only big creatures can hurt the cyclops, so Ampeels, the Leviathans, crabsquids, lava lizards and I guess any roaming crabsnakes but that is it no other damage can be done from any other creature. No it shouldn't be a fortress. But since seamoths and prawn suits can survive damage from most things other than leviathan creatures, The cyclops should really be more durable.
Or an upgrade can be made much like the pressure modules for the seamoth/prawn suit. When you first make the cyclops, it is extremely fragile. Then you can upgrade hull integrity MK 1, MK 2, MK 3 MK 4, think 4 would be enough and would be interesting too.
Hull integrity MK 1, basically removes all damage from collisions unless at full speed, removes damage done by small creatures, including all small herbivores, biters, cave crawlers, stalkers and sandsharks. But everything else can still damage it. Starts off small to make maybe 4 plasteel ingots, 2 aluminum oxides and lubricant
Hull integrity MK 2, any collision damage is negated, completely protects against the previous creatures but also includes bonesharks, river prowlers and warpers. 4 plasteel ingots, 3 aluminum oxides, 5 uranium crystals (uranium needs more purpose), or maybe 10 mercury ore or something making mercury useful.
Hull integrity MK 3, All the above, but also negates against attacks from crabsquids, ampeels and lava lizards. 10 plasteel ingots, 10 aluminum oxide crystals, 10 lubricants, 10 something else?
Hull integrity MK 4, Negates any damage done by any creature other than those classed as leviathan in nature. But does manage to negate up to 70% of damage depending upon the leviathan class. Sea dragons do 20% damage on their biggest attack, reaper leviathans do 10% damage. But MK 4 requires something like 12 plasteel ingots, 13 sulphur, 10 kyanite, 10 mercury, 15 nickel (ok these are random numbers), they can figure out the costs. But I think sulphur and kyanite are needed to protect against the sea dragon
2 No fires. The fires make little to no sense in my opinion. I understand outside damage, but the fires are virtually pointless. And more serve as another pointless thing to manage.
Basically in survival and hardcore you have to deal with, hunger, oxygen and water. With the cyclops added, you need to manage, energy, storage, external and internal damage. Internal damage by fire doesn't make such sense to me. I feel like it is a feature which took a lot of coding like with the added smoke effects and fires ect. But it isn't neccessary.
3 The shield should be changed, not to negate against all damage by should be used to get rid of the lava larva. They are really annoying and actually just them themselves gave me a lot of travel in the lava zone because there were so many of them and they drain power way to quickly.
If one has a progression where one is able to eventually 'level up' to the point of invulnerability - then the gameplay just ends near the end of the game.
This was the issue I had with farming (given the lack of blights) and with the solar cells for the seamoth etc. - by mid-late game you've overcome most of the obstacles that make for 'gameplay'.
- Please don't forget that Cyclops is made of plasteel, which is more durable than regular titanium. So Cyclops HAVE to be more sturdy than Seamoth/Prawn.
- Ability to withstand any collision when at slow/silent running speed (maybe when above sub-critical depth), maybe even regular speed.
- Increase overall Cyclops HP, so that bonesharks and spine eels are no more than minor disturbance, unless you ar are low health already.
- Ability to use shield to ward off/detach lava larvae. For now it is only removing all power cells or swimming around with knife/propulsion, as the sh**y things are spawning around like rabbits in spring.
- Fire does make sense. We have our first fire in the pod at the beginning, we have some fires on Aurora when exploring, so why don't have them onboard of Cyclops too? Still, it's better to reduce the chance of fire in order not to turn the game in "crazy fireman on board of sinking cub" stuff
- Maybe increase stealth when in silent running mode? Like, if sub is in SR and not moving completely, it is unnoticeable for any creature, for them it's just like a piece of rock
- I've never noticed bonesharks or prowlers attacking big creatures like reefbacks or Leviathans, so why would they attack Cyclops, which is about same size? Also, it would be great to use sub horn to scare away some small predators (but attract bigger ones)
- I think only one Cyclops hull upgrade would be enough, like chassis upgrade for Seamoth, but an expensive one. That one will completely remove any damage from predators but biggest ones, like leviathans. Electric shock of spine eel or EMP blast of crabsquid will still affect you.
https://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/comment/2341064/#Comment_2341064
(second part, where I bolded the text)
Pressure at such depth is about 15 MPa. (depends on gravity and the exact water density) That is 1500 tons per a single square meter!
And while our sub is capable of resisting such an extreme pressure, it will sink because of some tiny sharks...
So here go some suggestions:
Non-lethal methods need to be more convenient and effective than just plowing everything under or killing everything will be the go-to method of approaching the game.
I was more meaning for gameplay value and regards what is happening is the issue. When being attacked from the outside, what is being damaged? The hull integrity on the outside of the ship. As such I understand why the hull get's breached, however, fires wouldn't start at the frequency that they do right now. Once they have fixed everything damage related wise then fires could be added in, maybe once the cyclops gets very low health wise. But not after every other hit.
Right now I keep nodamage on whilst using the cyclops. Whilst I like a challenge, I don't see the fires doing anything other than being annoying. And whilst yes it is probably more realistic to have them in the game. Right now it's realism vs gameplay. And since we cannot have any weapons to protect ourselves, which is fine I've always liked that about this game, but I do think that if this is the case, then the cyclops has to be more durable than it already is.
2. Creatures seem to still be attacking the sub for too long after silent running is initiated. Creatures shouldn't stop attacking the instant the button is clicked, but it does seem like they are continuing to attack longer then they should, which we are looking into.
3. We are adding some sort of "sprinkler" system as an upgrade, but it will likely be more like a ventilation system that temporarily turns off the air in the sub to starve the fires of oxygen.
It doesn't make sense for only Leviathans to attack the Cyclops, as there aren't that many areas in the game with Reapers and Sea Dragons. Therefore, this whole mechanic would be pretty wasted, as you'd almost never need to think about your sub taking damage, which would just essentially put it back to what it was before. That said, there aren't that many smaller creatures which can attack and do damage right now. The list is:
Reapers
Sea Dragons
Crabsquids
Crabsnakes (I think)
Bonesharks
River Prowlers
Lava Lizards
It is sturdier. The Seamoth only has 300 hitpoints, the Prawn 600. The Cyclops now has 1200 This may be how it's working already. Generally speed effects collision damage, so if you are moving slow enough it SHOULD not cause damage. But the collision system is a bit complicated and speed, mass, and even angle you hit something all have an effect. Yes, this is on the list, for the shield to detach lava larva. It pretty much is this already. If you are in silent running mode, it is unlikely you are giving off enough noise to attract any creatures. Sandsharks do not attack the Cyclops. If you run into them they might do a very slight amount of collision damage based on how the current collision system works for all vehicles, but generally any creature smaller then that will not cause damage.
Well, I think "unlikely" it is when sub is *moving* in SR mode. I mean, if you are standing still in "silent running" mode, you should make no sound at all, isn't that what *silent* meant to be? Putting out anything that could make any noise? I might be mistaking, but I've just seen on youtube prowlers attacking Cyclops even when standing perfectly still in SR mode. Or is it just a bug?
By the way, will the animals attack sub when player is out? Meaning will we be able to leave Cyclops unattended without fear it will be chewed away by a some hungry crabsquid?
I agree with you, to a certain point. Even tho in complete still you make no noise the fauna around you can still see you and attack. I understand that fish arent very bright but im pretty sure they can make the difference between a rock and a humongeous ''thing'' they never saw before
That explosion animation is terrifying, but I feel like the Cyclops exploded when it shouldn't have.
What was wrong with the old way the Cyclops sank? It could only be done by going below max depth, but it was a far more interesting mechanic. Cracks would start to appear and water would come flooding in, and as it got more damaged new cracks would appear almost as fast as you could repair them. As it filled the Cyclops would lose its balance and start listing, eventually completely filling and dropping to the ocean floor.
Now, suddenly we have fires and a large dramatic explosion in an electric powered submarine, and no sign of any water. It doesn't make any sense.
I much prefer the old method, with a few improvements. Taking damage from creatures obviously, making the bulkheads functional, and the ability to recover the Cyclops later after it has sunk by repairing everything (possibly requiring specialist equipment you have to go and fetch) and letting the auto-drain systems empty it.
(Not my video, posted for clarity)