Silent Running 2.0
SansTheSkelebro
Italy Join Date: 2016-04-27 Member: 216071Members
Italy Join Date: 2016-04-27 Member: 216071Members
From UWE developer Klegran, on the Subnautica Reddit
Hey Ya'll!
Since the release of Silent Running we've been getting a ton of feedback on what players like and don't like about the state of the Cyclops. We are attempting to address these issues with another feature patch to the Cyclops. Here is the overall goal of the changes, followed by the changes themselves:
Players liked the concept of Silent Running (SR), but felt that in order to get the most out of it they had to keep the sub perpetually in silent running when near enemies. It essentially became a "get out of jail free card" by slotting into SR to remove agro from all enemies and then crawling past them at a snail's pace. This was not the intent of the feature; instead it was supposed to be used very seldomly to sneak past enemies. To address this, we are replacing the Silent Running speed setting with a SR ability that runs for 30 seconds followed by a 2 min cooldown. During Silent Running, no noise is created, but any of the sub's now 3 speeds can be used so no movement penalty is incurred.
This fixed the issue with Silent Running, but left us with the problem of the sub now always making noise. To fix this, we've added the ability to turn off the Cyclops' engine. When the engine is off, the sub cannot move and creates no noise whatsoever, but works as normal in every other sense (fabricators, lights, lockers can be used as expected). Powering back up the engine takes a small bit of time, so one must consider if they want to leave their sub idling for a quick getaway, or turn off the engine and potentially be stuck in a bad situation.
Flank Speed was intended to be an emergency speed only, not the speed players default their Cyclops to at all times when not in danger. To address this, we made the current flank speed the new standard speed. Flank is now even faster than before, but can create fires. The longer it is used the higher the chance it will overheat the engine and create a fire. This should provide some exciting moments using flank speed to escape danger, without sacrificing the boost of speed you have all come to expect.
Slow speed is intended to be used to navigate tight areas and will also produce far less noise than the other two speeds.
A large change has also been made to how creatures attack the Cyclops as well. Noise is now directly related to the range of agro the Cyclops gives off. Creatures inside the 'radius of noise' produced by the Cyclops will attack it. Those outside it will not. To help understand this concept we added a sphere on the sonar representing the noise range being given off. All creatures shown on the sonar will be yellow if they are not attacking, and will change to red when they are within agro range and may attack. This should help the player much more easily understand the relationship between noise and creature attacks.
Here's a direct list of features added:
Silent running is an ability, the icon is moved to the right hand side. Entering it will enter a state where no noise is generated for the limited amount of time, no matter how fast the player is driving. It runs for 30 seconds, with a 2 min cooldown. While active, all external and internal lights will be shut down for the duration of the ability but no other penalty will be incurred.
In the place of where the silent running button used to be, we now have a turn off engine button. Turning off the engine will reduce Cyclops noise to zero. The Cyclops can be used as normal while in this mode, but cannot move. Once powered down, the speed buttons will be replaced with a power up engine button. Pushing the power up button will start the engine, which will take a few seconds before it is again active and can be used. Leaving the Cyclops will automatically power it down.
Flank speed causes overheating and can creates fires. 20 seconds of use will overheat the engine. Once overheated, dice is rolled every 2 seconds to determine if a fire is created. The longer the player stays in flank speed the greater the chance of a fire per die roll. Heat is implemented as a hidden value that ramps up from 0 to 1 when applying throttle in flank speed. When not applying throttle, heat goes down and die rolls stop; no fires can be created if the player is not actively applying throttle. This is also the case if the player switches out of flank speed. Oral warnings have been added to communicate this concept.
Added a noise range indicator on creature sonar. The 'size' of the noise indicator directly correlates to the noise value of the Cyclops. Creatures within the range indicator get more aggressive over time, creatures outside of it get less aggressive. The aggression value is visually communicated through changing the creature's sonar blip color.
Shields repulse creatures and cause them to flee when they attack it so it is more powerful than before (almost identical to the Seamoth Perimeter Defense System now).
Energy values have been retooled so the Cyclops can't break the first law of thermodynamics and charge batteries faster than it uses them. To combat this nerf, energy useage overall has been scaled back so the Cyclops can now drive for twice as long on the same amount of power as before.
These changes will be hitting Experimental within the next day or so. Feedback always appreciated.
Hey Ya'll!
Since the release of Silent Running we've been getting a ton of feedback on what players like and don't like about the state of the Cyclops. We are attempting to address these issues with another feature patch to the Cyclops. Here is the overall goal of the changes, followed by the changes themselves:
Players liked the concept of Silent Running (SR), but felt that in order to get the most out of it they had to keep the sub perpetually in silent running when near enemies. It essentially became a "get out of jail free card" by slotting into SR to remove agro from all enemies and then crawling past them at a snail's pace. This was not the intent of the feature; instead it was supposed to be used very seldomly to sneak past enemies. To address this, we are replacing the Silent Running speed setting with a SR ability that runs for 30 seconds followed by a 2 min cooldown. During Silent Running, no noise is created, but any of the sub's now 3 speeds can be used so no movement penalty is incurred.
This fixed the issue with Silent Running, but left us with the problem of the sub now always making noise. To fix this, we've added the ability to turn off the Cyclops' engine. When the engine is off, the sub cannot move and creates no noise whatsoever, but works as normal in every other sense (fabricators, lights, lockers can be used as expected). Powering back up the engine takes a small bit of time, so one must consider if they want to leave their sub idling for a quick getaway, or turn off the engine and potentially be stuck in a bad situation.
Flank Speed was intended to be an emergency speed only, not the speed players default their Cyclops to at all times when not in danger. To address this, we made the current flank speed the new standard speed. Flank is now even faster than before, but can create fires. The longer it is used the higher the chance it will overheat the engine and create a fire. This should provide some exciting moments using flank speed to escape danger, without sacrificing the boost of speed you have all come to expect.
Slow speed is intended to be used to navigate tight areas and will also produce far less noise than the other two speeds.
A large change has also been made to how creatures attack the Cyclops as well. Noise is now directly related to the range of agro the Cyclops gives off. Creatures inside the 'radius of noise' produced by the Cyclops will attack it. Those outside it will not. To help understand this concept we added a sphere on the sonar representing the noise range being given off. All creatures shown on the sonar will be yellow if they are not attacking, and will change to red when they are within agro range and may attack. This should help the player much more easily understand the relationship between noise and creature attacks.
Here's a direct list of features added:
Silent running is an ability, the icon is moved to the right hand side. Entering it will enter a state where no noise is generated for the limited amount of time, no matter how fast the player is driving. It runs for 30 seconds, with a 2 min cooldown. While active, all external and internal lights will be shut down for the duration of the ability but no other penalty will be incurred.
In the place of where the silent running button used to be, we now have a turn off engine button. Turning off the engine will reduce Cyclops noise to zero. The Cyclops can be used as normal while in this mode, but cannot move. Once powered down, the speed buttons will be replaced with a power up engine button. Pushing the power up button will start the engine, which will take a few seconds before it is again active and can be used. Leaving the Cyclops will automatically power it down.
Flank speed causes overheating and can creates fires. 20 seconds of use will overheat the engine. Once overheated, dice is rolled every 2 seconds to determine if a fire is created. The longer the player stays in flank speed the greater the chance of a fire per die roll. Heat is implemented as a hidden value that ramps up from 0 to 1 when applying throttle in flank speed. When not applying throttle, heat goes down and die rolls stop; no fires can be created if the player is not actively applying throttle. This is also the case if the player switches out of flank speed. Oral warnings have been added to communicate this concept.
Added a noise range indicator on creature sonar. The 'size' of the noise indicator directly correlates to the noise value of the Cyclops. Creatures within the range indicator get more aggressive over time, creatures outside of it get less aggressive. The aggression value is visually communicated through changing the creature's sonar blip color.
Shields repulse creatures and cause them to flee when they attack it so it is more powerful than before (almost identical to the Seamoth Perimeter Defense System now).
Energy values have been retooled so the Cyclops can't break the first law of thermodynamics and charge batteries faster than it uses them. To combat this nerf, energy useage overall has been scaled back so the Cyclops can now drive for twice as long on the same amount of power as before.
These changes will be hitting Experimental within the next day or so. Feedback always appreciated.
Comments
Does turning your engine off make your cyclops less appealing to lava larvas by chance?
The words "Silent Running" implies a quiet operating mode that can be maintained, if not indefinitely, at least for a lengthy period of time and requires the sub to move more slowly. This new ability sounds like it will behave more like a temporary cloaking device. Maybe it should be renamed to avoid potential confusion.
I'm glad to hear that the devs want each of the Cyclops speeds to have its own niche, but the proposed changes don't provide one for Ahead Slow. They said they intend it to be used for navigating tight areas, but the problem in tight places isn't going too fast, it's that the Cyclops lacks the ability to strafe and turns very slowly. To address this, maybe Ahead Slow could divert energy to maneuvering thrusters that allow it to turn much more rapidly and also be able to strafe to more easily navigate tight spaces.
What good is Silent Running for 30s in 2m30s? Do we now have to waste 80% of the time to move the Cyclops? And sustained Ahead Flank causes the engines to catch fire?!? Who would design a submarine so?
Obviously the new Silent Running and Ahead Flank are mean to be used together for 30s to move away from some threat. Then followed by shutting down the engine to produce no noise and hope that means the player escaped.
Except in many places I don't think 30s will be long enough and Ahead Flank will be unusable except by those with excellent knowledge and luck to navigate places like the Lost River and the Lava Zones.
The devs want to control by what means and at what speed the player can move, as well as risking certain threats with certain tools to deal with that. I don't think they're going about this the right way. Maybe they're trying to control the gameplay too much.
To be sure, I'll have to test it out and see what I and others find out with all the changes coming and how they interact.
PDA: While you can overclock the engines for additional speed, this is inadvisable as the extra strain will cause-
*Fire*
PDA: Of course I suppose Mister Engineer knows exactly what he's doing.
All other things sound pretty good and well thought-out. I kinda hope the "new" slow setting will be almost like the old Silent Running. That would be great. Yeah you'd have to be more careful then in the old Silent Running mode but it should work good enough.
Looking forward to the noise circles and the aggro indicating colour change.
@gamer1000k I support your idea that a "better navigation"-speed should improve agility to better navigate and maybe even strafe with the Sub. Would make things easier. But I also think that the bigger problem is the field of view/the overall awareness of your surroundings in the Cyclops. I think we need a 3rd person camera view instead of the cameras that are fixed on the sub itself. Like in "Eve Online" for example. You could circle your ship with the (so called) camera drone, which itself is just the pov for the player that is anchored on your ship. You can freely move and zoom it around your ship. Click the Link for a short video explaining the camera controls. The first seconds of the video show what I mean. I dunno if that would be possible with the current game engine though.
Pro
Con
Biggest problem now is Cyclops turning abilities and speed. I'd say the devs should speed up turning and allow a bit strafing, as well as shorten the sub a bit. The Cyclops isn't really too big, it's too long and can't turn well. Alternatively flank speed could speed up turning time.
Silent running is now completely useless. I can approach the PCF ignoring any damage that isn't the Sea Dragon. It works with slow speed not attracting the Sea Dragon and powering down if he gets close. The cams can show me when he's away to power up and drive slowly again or just repair a bit. Besides silent running now being useless it's also unimmersive and overpowered by supporting flank speed.
The whole Cyclops danger centers around the Sea Dragon. But you can't outmaneuver him and turning and escaping is really too slow, even with flank speed and silent running for 30 secs, because turning eats up half the time. The only thing that works is bypassing a Sea Dragon for 30 seconds, which you don't need and looks overpowered anyways.
So what's the best real strategy if a Sea Dragon attacks?
Power down the Cyclops and repair inside damage, then outside damage while he's gone. Simple as that.
Does it feel immersive?
No, no and no!
Finally ...
Major suggestion 1:
A second precursor moonpool like the one at the big gun that can hold the Cyclops (funny, the gun moonpool is big enough but not needed). That way the Cyclops could only park there in safety and only there at the PCF.
If the Cyclops gets caught before it reaches the moonpool, it has to escape and try another time or get destroyed with the player escaping in the Prawn while the Sea Dragon is busy finishing off the Cyclops wreck (he should at least focus for 30 secs around the wreck before looking for other prey).
The player could escape to the PCF with his Prawn and maybe it's an interesting story element to make it impossible to reach the PCF with the Cyclops without loosing it, as the PCF offers the Prawn to return to surface. So a player doesn't really need a Cyclops to drive back. And the shock would be greater if you had to loose your sub to advance in story.
Major suggestion 2:
2 concepts for escaping a Sea Dragon have to work - sneaking around him and escaping him in panic.
Silence should only work until close range for a leviathan as all leviathans consider a big sub as a rival and should be able to see it. Then at 10m distance when the leviathan can see the sub, it can only escape.
The shields and flank speed should help escape while under target from a leviathan and last for 30 secs both. Flank speed should also allow emergency turns in 5-10 secs instead full 15 secs, thus allowing to retreat in 20secs left. But it would be best to combine shield and flank speed, as they both probably serve the same purpose of emergency escape.
Finally if the Cyclop blows up and the player escapes with the Prawn, the Cyclops should lock all nearby creatures into a "target the dying sub" mode to allow the Prawn to not be the immediate next target. Or a dying sub could autoeject a decoy to do that job.
Just lol.
https://www.reddit.com/r/subnautica/comments/6g4bp7/official_silent_running_20_feature_list/dio8hy2/
This is a fantastic comment. I linked it on the reddit topic on Silent Running 2.0 here.
https://www.reddit.com/r/subnautica/comments/6g4bp7/official_silent_running_20_feature_list/dioacrx/
The idea of sea life attacking because of noise should be based upon what that noise sounds like. Does the Cyclops sound like food, or do the predators attack anything that makes a lot of noise? If the latter, we should be seeing piles of dead sharks around the openings of geothermal vents, because those things are thunderously loud, and are hot enough to bake anything that enters the crater.
I love this game, but the updates should make some sense instead of just introducing a level of difficulty to the game. Keep up the good work!
Because the behaviour AI of the game isn't really there. The devs have always mentioned they are a small indie company and no AAA staff. They simply can't do advanced creature behaviour. We shouldn't expect that much from the devs.
The reason why the Cyclops is vulnerable to smaller creatures is a simple one and has nothing to do with real life subs material strength. The game simply can't move leviathans through the map. The leviathans are all statically placed and don't roam more than in a predefined range. It's already difficult enough for the devs to get the leviathans from going through clippings and animating them to make it look good. The devs have no pathfinding AI to let them roam through the map to seek prey in the open sea and the caves and thus be the main danger for the Cyclops everywhere.
So the other creatures have to act as a replacement for being a threat to the Cyclops.
I still consider this wrong as the Cyclops is made later in the game and doesn't need a fear concept for lesser dangers. There are also other good creatures capable of damaging the Cyclops who are dangerous enough, like the Crabsquid's EMP and the Warper's warpshot, which both are already present at middle depth like the Reaper leviathan. There is simply no need to let every aggressive shark of the game attack the big Cyclops. There needs to be a far better cut of what creatures can and will attack the Cyclops and what creatures only attack the smaller vehicles.
The only good thing so far is the minimal damage of the creatures so far. It's so small that if the Cyclops keeps driving it can ignore the damage alltogether.
Pernicious little bastards that I love to hate, I guess.
Once I am reinforced and ultrafast I don't evem fear them diving. There bite is so ineffective now that I can scan them risking a few bites and never need my stasis rifle. With the Seamoth and Prawn it gets even less frightening.
But in my sitting duck called "Cyclops" they make me mad with all their alarms and knocking at the Cyclops. Is it really needed for the Cyclops?
The new silent running 2.0 now means that the Cyclops is either moving or having its engines shut off. Sadly even when there are no real leviathan dangers there.
I love the sharks when they try to chase me diving or the small vehicles, but I hate them knocking at my big sub.