The reinforced suit should provide limited radiation protection anyway, since radiation protection is pretty much determined by how much matter is between the radiation source and whatever you're trying to protect. So assuming (as one logically would) that the armored suit is denser or thicker than the standard one, it should provide some protection.
Using the rad suit as a base material for the reinforced suit is a brilliant idea.
Of course all suits could be seen as upgrades and a suit could have 2 upgrade slots. With these possible combinations:
rad protection + water preservation
rad protection + reinforcement
reinforcement + water preservation
As the reinforcement suit includes thermal + physical protection, a diving suit with upgrade slots could include just the base effects:
rad protection (see radsuit)
water preservation (see stillsuit)
physical protection
thermal shielding
acid protection ? (see Lost River)
shock defense ? (or anti-grip or repellant - see Reaper's or Crabsnake's grip)
sonar defense ? (although sadly no game creature features a sonar attack)
The upgradable suit could be the artmodel of the reinforced suit, only that this suit wouldn't include the upgrades. The upgrades would have to be built at the mod upgrade station. It might be possible that the base model includes a physical protection with 2 upgrade slots. The papermodel could include the suit upgrade slots. The other suits will get outdated in favour of the upgradable suit.
The problem with that idea as I see it is your last sentence. One of the things I like about the "rad suit as material" thing is that it means the rad suit is no longer cluttering my storage (personal problem, I know). A modular suit would make every other suit into clutter.
I also like having to choose between the reinforced suit and the stillsuit.
The problem with that idea as I see it is your last sentence. One of the things I like about the "rad suit as material" thing is that it means the rad suit is no longer cluttering my storage (personal problem, I know). A modular suit would make every other suit into clutter.
I also like having to choose between the reinforced suit and the stillsuit.
Just saying this for perspective reasons: I like "clutter". It's what I find appealing about survival games, to collect stuff as you go along and create stuff to be prepared for whichever scenario might come up. I consider it good game design if items from early game don't lose their use later on because they have specific traits (not counting basis items with multiple upgrade directions).
At the moment, I kinda dislike the reinforced suit because its such an end game item. Between thermal and physical resistance, it's borderline pointless to even have (it in) the paperdoll unless you're really out of drink options. Obvs managing suits should not be a hassle, but some balancing towards making the rad suit (periodicially) useful throughout the game is something I favor over making it a one-note item.
I like zetachron's idea, in part because it'd allow thermal and physical resistance to be split. Never much of a fan of the lack of a helmet on the reinforced suit either - everything burns except my face?? I reckon helmet and glove upgrades would enjoy the same "freebie" status as fins currently do.
Just saying this for perspective reasons: I like "clutter". It's what I find appealing about survival games, to collect stuff as you go along and create stuff to be prepared for whichever scenario might come up. I consider it good game design if items from early game don't lose their use later on because they have specific traits (not counting basis items with multiple upgrade directions).
But... honestly speaking, I feel that's kind of the opposite purpose in a survival game; in cases where you're trying to survive, you typically don't want any such clutter because survival is about bare necessities and making do with what you have. What you're describing feels closer to an adventure game, not a survival game - in the former, you can afford to hoard and gather, but in the latter you tend to either make what you need or recycle what you don't need into something you do, because "clutter" is a luxury you simply don't have the space for and especially not if those resources can be put to better use as something else. If nothing else, that's my take on what good game design for a survival experience would be.
At the moment, I kinda dislike the reinforced suit because its such an end game item. Between thermal and physical resistance, it's borderline pointless to even have (it in) the paperdoll unless you're really out of drink options. Obvs managing suits should not be a hassle, but some balancing towards making the rad suit (periodicially) useful throughout the game is something I favor over making it a one-note item.
Not true; it's made working at the deeper depths and surviving creature encounters much easier, as well as establishing thermal generators near vents - it even helped me survive a Leviathan encounter once. It's hardly an endgame-spicific item - if anything, it's my go-to suit of choice after I no longer need the rad suit. Of course, that's just personal experience talking, but I've found I needed it for far more than just to go to the ILZ.
I like zetachron's idea, in part because it'd allow thermal and physical resistance to be split. Never much of a fan of the lack of a helmet on the reinforced suit either - everything burns except my face?? I reckon helmet and glove upgrades would enjoy the same "freebie" status as fins currently do.
In all fairness, the rebreather unit that you'd arguably need to breathe at those depths covers your whole face as well, so that wouldn't be so much of an issue. Hair, on the other hand, IDK about.
Just saying this for perspective reasons: I like "clutter". It's what I find appealing about survival games, to collect stuff as you go along and create stuff to be prepared for whichever scenario might come up. I consider it good game design if items from early game don't lose their use later on because they have specific traits (not counting basis items with multiple upgrade directions).
But... honestly speaking, I feel that's kind of the opposite purpose in a survival game; in cases where you're trying to survive, you typically don't want any such clutter because survival is about bare necessities and making do with what you have. What you're describing feels closer to an adventure game, not a survival game - in the former, you can afford to hoard and gather, but in the latter you tend to either make what you need or recycle what you don't need into something you do, because "clutter" is a luxury you simply don't have the space for and especially not if those resources can be put to better use as something else. If nothing else, that's my take on what good game design for a survival experience would be.
That'd be about right, as my love for (the concept of) survival games comes from adventure games (and goes through life simulation games). It's not a corner of the spectrum that's well-populated (certainly not by modern games), so it's in my interest that Subnautica -- as an exploration-survival game -- takes up residence. I understand that isn't a universal POV, hence why I prefaced with "for perspective reasons".
At the moment, I kinda dislike the reinforced suit because its such an end game item. Between thermal and physical resistance, it's borderline pointless to even have (it in) the paperdoll unless you're really out of drink options. Obvs managing suits should not be a hassle, but some balancing towards making the rad suit (periodicially) useful throughout the game is something I favor over making it a one-note item.
Not true; it's made working at the deeper depths and surviving creature encounters much easier, as well as establishing thermal generators near vents - it even helped me survive a Leviathan encounter once. It's hardly an endgame-specific item - if anything, it's my go-to suit of choice after I no longer need the rad suit. Of course, that's just personal experience talking, but I've found I needed it for far more than just to go to the ILZ.
We're talking about the same thing, just miscommunicating on terminology. What I mean with "end game item" is that once you've got it, that's what you'll use from then on. There's little to no reason to consider the other suits once the reinforced suit comes in. Compare to the vehicles where each of them has its pros and cons that doesn't make one better than the other (this is aside from whether any of them fit your personal play style or not). I would like to see more balance like that with the suits. If zetachron's suggestion wouldn't be feasible, the least that can be done is give the other two suits secondary benefits too, or even tertiary ones. The rad suit could incorporate acid protection and maybe the stillsuit could protect against warp balls.
(Of course, as I would love to see the sub-seafloor levels get the same complexity as the seafloor biomes, I'd like to have a biome that's naturally emits radiation and entering it would require the rad suit as much as the LZ requires the reinforced suit, but that'd be a lot more work than adding the extra benefits.)
Just a bunch of crazy talk saying Ion crystals generate radiation. They are about as real as the ZPM's in the Stargate SG1 TV franchise, and you never hear about anyone getting radiation injuries from handling that TV show's power modules.
To me that's like Charles McGill's EMH 'condition' in Better Call Saul. While it might really be a thing (modern science and medicine debunks it, and I personally don't think it's a thing) I can get behind it within the confines of the show - adding drama and tension, and sympathizing people taking the "victim's" word to heart as opposed to his brother Jimmy, what with his shady past. The thought of just being exposed to electromagnetic fields causing pain, discomfort, and possibly bodily harm I could comprehend and offer a pass.
However, even within that realm of belief, what I simply can't get behind is Chuck's delusion that a fully charged battery can cause him severe discomfort (which should be noted was finally disproved in S3E5 "Chicanery"!). Batteries just sitting on their own don't conduct electricity or generate electromagnetic fields - if that were a thing, then they would cause harm to other electronic devices that were nearby, or shorten their lifespan at least. Batteries store energy in an inert state, and I would imagine Ion Crystals would operate on the same principle: You can unleash their power if done properly, but just handling them normally won't cause radiation poisoning or EMH distress.
Except we already know for absolute certain that the ion crystals ARE emitting electromagnetic radiation at all times, because the GLOW. But, as I said before, the glow is just the visible radiation they are emitting. And, as I said before, higher energy things tend to emit higher spectra of radiation. So it is quite possible, indeed probable, that the ion crystals are emitting radiation on spectra that we can't see, and that can very much kill us.
Except of course that it's likely the precursors would be harmed by that radiation as well, and why would they design their batteries to emit lethal radiation? Plenty of reasons they might be designed to glow on purpose.
Except of course that it's likely the precursors would be harmed by that radiation as well, and why would they design their batteries to emit lethal radiation? Plenty of reasons they might be designed to glow on purpose.
You're assuming they had a biology vulnerable to that kind of radiation, though. Or that the crystals aren't just designed in such a way as to contain said lethal radiation - there's really no other reason why they'd glow, honestly, since you could just have a light or other utility for pretty much any conceivable reason you'd need illumination.
That'd be about right, as my love for (the concept of) survival games comes from adventure games (and goes through life simulation games). It's not a corner of the spectrum that's well-populated (certainly not by modern games), so it's in my interest that Subnautica -- as an exploration-survival game -- takes up residence. I understand that isn't a universal POV, hence why I prefaced with "for perspective reasons".
"Perspective reasons" isn't quite what I'd use to describe it, though, because it seems like you'd have to force Subnautica to fit into that niche since... well, honestly speaking, it's not really a survival game anymore. It's an adventure game with survival elements, not an actual open-world survival game - or again, at least not anymore. That's a route it's been going ever since Cory Strader started pushing to have the ILZ closed off everywhere but the Lost River to force players down there, rather than leaving it open for exploration and discovery (especially since putting a needed prison key in the lost river would ensure people have to go there anyway without actively shrinking their environments). It doesn't really feel like the spectrum you're talking about really fits it, since survival and adventure are really two separate genres - it's true they can mesh at times, but they're not inherent nor exclusive to one-another; adventure games are games you love for the story and progression, while survival is from the experience and real-world immersion. Those concepts don't always blend together perfectly, so it just doesn't feel right to me to judge how one should be exclusively off of experiences through the other.
We're talking about the same thing, just miscommunicating on terminology. What I mean with "end game item" is that once you've got it, that's what you'll use from then on. There's little to no reason to consider the other suits once the reinforced suit comes in. Compare to the vehicles where each of them has its pros and cons that doesn't make one better than the other (this is aside from whether any of them fit your personal play style or not). I would like to see more balance like that with the suits. If zetachron's suggestion wouldn't be feasible, the least that can be done is give the other two suits secondary benefits too, or even tertiary ones. The rad suit could incorporate acid protection and maybe the stillsuit could protect against warp balls.
Actually, that's not quite the case; there's no miscommunication at all. My point is that I think it's a mistake to classify the reinforced dive suit as an "end game item" purely because it becomes your go-to - an end-game item is something you either get at the end of the game or absolutely must have to progress to the end-game. The Prawn is an end-game item; MK-III pressure compensators are end game items; the blue prison keys are end game items; the leviathan hatching enzymes are end game items; the rocket blueprints are end-game items. The reinforced diving suit, in my opinion at least, is not an end game item, because it's use can vary between players - some people prefer the Stillsuit so as to have an easier time keeping hydrated, for instance, and don't need to exit their vehicles in hot or dangerous zones for gathering as much as others do. We're really not talking about the same thing in that regard, because my talking about how useful I find the reinforced dive suit is already something relative to my own experiences, since I seem to have less luck dodging dangerous creatures than others like @zetachron apparently do.
(Of course, as I would love to see the sub-seafloor levels get the same complexity as the seafloor biomes, I'd like to have a biome that's naturally emits radiation and entering it would require the rad suit as much as the LZ requires the reinforced suit, but that'd be a lot more work than adding the extra benefits.)
I really can't think of any reason why anything in the game would naturally emit such high levels of radiation, though.
That'd be about right, as my love for (the concept of) survival games comes from adventure games (and goes through life simulation games). It's not a corner of the spectrum that's well-populated (certainly not by modern games), so it's in my interest that Subnautica -- as an exploration-survival game -- takes up residence. I understand that isn't a universal POV, hence why I prefaced with "for perspective reasons".
"Perspective reasons" isn't quite what I'd use to describe it, though, because it seems like you'd have to force Subnautica to fit into that niche since... well, honestly speaking, it's not really a survival game anymore. It's an adventure game with survival elements, not an actual open-world survival game - or again, at least not anymore. That's a route it's been going ever since Cory Strader started pushing to have the ILZ closed off everywhere but the Lost River to force players down there, rather than leaving it open for exploration and discovery (especially since putting a needed prison key in the lost river would ensure people have to go there anyway without actively shrinking their environments). It doesn't really feel like the spectrum you're talking about really fits it, since survival and adventure are really two separate genres - it's true they can mesh at times, but they're not inherent nor exclusive to one-another; adventure games are games you love for the story and progression, while survival is from the experience and real-world immersion. Those concepts don't always blend together perfectly, so it just doesn't feel right to me to judge how one should be exclusively off of experiences through the other.
Nicest way I can say this - and I honestly do not mean to offend, but I'm not dealing with genre purism. I find it detrimental and don't have encouraging experience entering discussion about it. Plus I'd have the difficulty here of balancing my argument for what Subnautica may be to satisfy demands from all angles (that are already on board) vs. what would create the best game experience for me. I only wrote my bit to show that there are conflicting wishes for the game and that's where I'll leave that at. I hope you understand.
We're talking about the same thing, just miscommunicating on terminology. What I mean with "end game item" is that once you've got it, that's what you'll use from then on. There's little to no reason to consider the other suits once the reinforced suit comes in. Compare to the vehicles where each of them has its pros and cons that doesn't make one better than the other (this is aside from whether any of them fit your personal play style or not). I would like to see more balance like that with the suits. If zetachron's suggestion wouldn't be feasible, the least that can be done is give the other two suits secondary benefits too, or even tertiary ones. The rad suit could incorporate acid protection and maybe the stillsuit could protect against warp balls.
Actually, that's not quite the case; there's no miscommunication at all. My point is that I think it's a mistake to classify the reinforced dive suit as an "end game item" purely because it becomes your go-to - an end-game item is something you either get at the end of the game or absolutely must have to progress to the end-game. The Prawn is an end-game item; MK-III pressure compensators are end game items; the blue prison keys are end game items; the leviathan hatching enzymes are end game items; the rocket blueprints are end-game items. The reinforced diving suit, in my opinion at least, is not an end game item, because it's use can vary between players - some people prefer the Stillsuit so as to have an easier time keeping hydrated, for instance, and don't need to exit their vehicles in hot or dangerous zones for gathering as much as others do. We're really not talking about the same thing in that regard, because my talking about how useful I find the reinforced dive suit is already something relative to my own experiences, since I seem to have less luck dodging dangerous creatures than others like @zetachron apparently do.
Also nicest way I can say this, this entire paragraph (and the other one too, come to think of it) has zero to do with what *I* wanted to talk about. You know that. The "actually"-ing is shaky and can be aimed right back, but that would do nothing but derail the point I know you're aiming to make, so why would I? Why would you? Whatever the answer, I'm not dealing.
(Of course, as I would love to see the sub-seafloor levels get the same complexity as the seafloor biomes, I'd like to have a biome that's naturally emits radiation and entering it would require the rad suit as much as the LZ requires the reinforced suit, but that'd be a lot more work than adding the extra benefits.)
I really can't think of any reason why anything in the game would naturally emit such high levels of radiation, though.
It's a game. We already have a list that goes on for days on things that are impossible, unreasonable, or mightily convenient. If it helps the fun of it, then let there be whatever that causes radiation.
Nicest way I can say this - and I honestly do not mean to offend, but I'm not dealing with genre purism. I find it detrimental and don't have encouraging experience entering discussion about it. Plus I'd have the difficulty here of balancing my argument for what Subnautica may be to satisfy demands from all angles (that are already on board) vs. what would create the best game experience for me. I only wrote my bit to show that there are conflicting wishes for the game and that's where I'll leave that at. I hope you understand.
That's just it, though; it's less "purism" and more precision of terminology - something that's imperative in deciding precisely what it is you want from a game. The overall experience you want is determined by what kind of genre you're most partial to vs what elements of other genres you wouldn't mind seeing or think best fit it. That kind of debate really isn't something you can just... avoid, I think. In fact, "detrimental" is the last word I'd use to describe it, since it's crucial for the dev's side of things in determining what people want most out of it as well as defining what players should or should not expect or what the devs should expect from said audience. It's only really a negative if debating with someone who's just looking to rail against a genre he hates, but that in and of itself isn't inherent to having those definitions - you don't need to be a "purist" to care about those kind of definitions.
It's not a matter of understanding or not; just that I don't agree with your feelings on it. I'm sorry in advance if that's not what you want to hear, but I think defining where it is that Subnautica really stands ATM is important to defining what would or wouldn't be best to see from it.
Also nicest way I can say this, this entire paragraph (and the other one too, come to think of it) has zero to do with what *I* wanted to talk about. You know that. The "actually"-ing is shaky and can be aimed right back, but that would do nothing but derail the point I know you're aiming to make, so why would I? Why would you? Whatever the answer, I'm not dealing.
But that... well, frankly speaking, not true in the slightest. You yourself said your discussion was about the reinforced dive suit being an "end game item" - I'm saying I disagree with your claim on that. And as it stands right now... you're not even actually saying what else you thought the debate was about, if not on the reinforced dive suit's relative usefulness as you yourself had brought up. The first paragraph addresses what you wanted to talk about because it's me expressing that Subnautica, if it was meant to be a survival game, probably shouldn't have the kind of "clutter" you said you liked to see in adventure games as it doesn't really reflect a proper survival experience; The second paragraph addresses what you wanted to talk about because it's me expressing that I don't agree with your claims on the reinforced dive suit being an "end game item" rather than something with relative usefulness depending on play-type.
To make a long story short... nothing was actually derailed. I'm just long-winded in explaining my side of things.
It's a game. We already have a list that goes on for days on things that are impossible, unreasonable, or mightily convenient. If it helps the fun of it, then let there be whatever that causes radiation.
"It's a game" doesn't automatically write a story or lore, though. Even throughout all the above, one agreed-upon aspect was that radiation generally has to have a source, as well as a reason for it being there - the Aurora's is that it's quantum dark-matter ion whatever core ruptured; what's the reason for a natural source of such radiation in contrast to the artificial, man-made source on the Aurora? I'm not even being judgemental (and if it sounds as such, I'm sorry in advance) - I'm just curious what the actual hook is meant to be with it.
That's just it, though; it's less "purism" and more precision of terminology - something that's imperative in deciding precisely what it is you want from a game.
Not arguing on long-windedness there. Like, what I want from a game is less pressing than what I want from you: to recognize boundaries. I've communicated I disapprove of these convo methods (and, I'll add, a seeming unknowing of the adventure genre's flexibility) and do not wish to be cajoled into treading paths you alone pick.
"It's a game" doesn't automatically write a story or lore, though. Even throughout all the above, one agreed-upon aspect was that radiation generally has to have a source, as well as a reason for it being there - the Aurora's is that it's quantum dark-matter ion whatever core ruptured; what's the reason for a natural source of such radiation in contrast to the artificial, man-made source on the Aurora? I'm not even being judgemental (and if it sounds as such, I'm sorry in advance) - I'm just curious what the actual hook is meant to be with it.
I'm a weakling to questions, so I will reply here. If you can keep this topic on this level of mutuality I won't mind continuing convo on it either (not "debate"; I'm not signing up for any "debate").
A setup could be large underground deposits of uranite past the walls of such a biome that are pulled to the surface by flora, which would have a biological composition that turns the uranite into a radiation source. Bottom feeders could have a similar interaction, or just fishies that eat the plants and create the rad that-a-way. (I think I'd be partial to snails in a biome like that; combine it with pooled acid and you get reasonable stagnation horror). The condition would serve the local life by keeping foreign ones out. A discovery point could be a half-finished excavation facility abandoned when thermal energy was settled on. Seems to me like a nice variation on the other facilities.
A similar but different scenario is if it would be populated by fishy hoarders in the same way the KF is. Their loot of choice would be uranite, which they'd be able to process and thereby use as a defense mechanism. A perk there'd be that stalker behavior and lava lizard behavior would get a third, creating a higher level of gameplay saturation on that angle. (Gameplay saturation is something I think SN could in general do better, hence why I want more use for the rad suit.)
Not arguing on long-windedness there. Like, what I want from a game is less pressing than what I want from you: to recognize boundaries. I've communicated I disapprove of these convo methods (and, I'll add, a seeming unknowing of the adventure genre's flexibility) and do not wish to be cajoled into treading paths you alone pick.
But that's just it; my own argument was about recognizing the boundaries a game's genre defines said game with, and in turn how it translates into figuring out what features best benefit a game and what it's audience most expect from it. Furthermore, you're confusing the adventure genre's adaptability - how much it can or cannot mesh with other genres - as being stand-alone flexibility, and without counting how much setting and theme affect it either. Finally, your own initial argument was entirely about said "perspective reasons"; a path you alone picked to tread this down - why even say that if you weren't going to treat the view as subjective?
I'm a weakling to questions, so I will reply here. If you can keep this topic on this level of mutuality I won't mind continuing convo on it either (not "debate"; I'm not signing up for any "debate").
A setup could be large underground deposits of uranite past the walls of such a biome that are pulled to the surface by flora, which would have a biological composition that turns the uranite into a radiation source. Bottom feeders could have a similar interaction, or just fishies that eat the plants and create the rad that-a-way. (I think I'd be partial to snails in a biome like that; combine it with pooled acid and you get reasonable stagnation horror). The condition would serve the local life by keeping foreign ones out. A discovery point could be a half-finished excavation facility abandoned when thermal energy was settled on. Seems to me like a nice variation on the other facilities.
A similar but different scenario is if it would be populated by fishy hoarders in the same way the KF is. Their loot of choice would be uranite, which they'd be able to process and thereby use as a defense mechanism. A perk there'd be that stalker behavior and lava lizard behavior would get a third, creating a higher level of gameplay saturation on that angle. (Gameplay saturation is something I think SN could in general do better, hence why I want more use for the rad suit.)
A convo and debate are largely the same thing when it comes to discussing what works in a game, though; IDK if you can't very well avoid that on forums specifically made to provide subjective and/or objective feedback on something.
A big issue with that idea is that there's no guarantee that uranite's even an "active" isotope like uranium is (enough to irradiate, that is) - heck, as a natural part of it's decay, uranite contains oxides of lead, which is a natural radiation dampener; it typically has to be purified into uranium to get the intense enough concentrations you're talking about for real, harmful radiation. Whether or not same flora that pulls it up wouldn't be so resistant to it as to dampen any such radiation is also a factor.
Honestly speaking, it seems more economic in the long run just to have the radiation suit's rad-resistant materials be the basis of another suit like the reinforced dive suit. Heck, I'm all for new biomes, but building a whole new one purely to justify continued use of one spicific suit... I'm not sure if the devs would think it worth the effort.
I'm agreeing with @Herugrim that too much indulgence in representing radioactivity and radiation can really ruin the gameplay. But before seeing that off, some more on the real world.
Fission reactions let off a ton of harmful radiation, but fusion reactions let off none at all, despite letting off many orders of magnitude more energy. Harmful radiation from reactions is usually because of unstable molecules, which fusion reactions don't create.
What are you talking about? Fusion reactors don't let off any particle radiation, like alpha, beta, and neutron radiation. But the let off TONS of electromagnetic radiation, all up and down the spectrum, which, particularly in the X-ray and gamma wavelengths, is extremely harmful in any substantial dose.
Umm, you're both somewhat incorrect. First, @cdaragorn you said unstable molecules when I think you meant radioactive isotopes, those that will emit radiation. And both fission and fusion reactions produce radioactive isotopes and radiation like neutrons. In fact, most fusion reactions release most of their energy into free neutrons and only certain ones avoid this. And if you have a star that will intercept all the reactions deep inside, when it gets to the surface, it can be emitted as EM radiation throughout the spectrum. But that doesn't apply here.
Forgive me for not going into all the myriad of details about this. There's far more to this issue than is easily explained in any simple post or in very helpful wiki articles. Yes, any reaction is going to let off EM "radiation", that's just not what most scientists are talking about when they talk about radiation. The fact that it can harm you is irrelevant since anything can harm you in sufficient quantities. "Harmful" radiation is radiation that will cause significant harm in any quantity. Also EM radiation is produced from virtually any source of heat and is not unique to nuclear reactions.
An no, I meant what I said. Radioactive isotopes are letting off particles because they're unstable. No pure fusion reaction ever produces a radioactive isotope as a product. The neutrons you reference are purely a product of the massive amount of energy being released and are not isotopes of anything.
Yes, all nuclear reactions are harmful to be around .
Just a bunch of crazy talk saying Ion crystals generate radiation. They are about as real as the ZPM's in the Stargate SG1 TV franchise, and you never hear about anyone getting radiation injuries from handling that TV show's power modules.
Interesting quote as the ZERO POINT MODULE is commenting on a theory that there is an underlying level of energy everywhere and that it might be possible to tap this for almost infinite power, then they ballsed it up by talking about other synthetic dimensions inside the crystal and other things....
Back to ion crystals, it is said that they are stable. So straight of the bat they wont give off any radiation.
This can also be backed up by there colour, there green. Radiation once slowed down is a strong blue so real life reactor rods glow blue.
Taking this even further, the devs know this as the reactor rods are blue.
The topic of the radiation suit, uranium ore is not reactive enough to bother wearing a suit for. The same goes for unused rods as the chain reaction has not been started so they are mostly harmless. Though it would be entirely necessary to wear a radiation suit for spent rods by today's standards as they still output quite a lot of radiation and heat, that is why they are kept in water pools. But in subnautica you can handle them which would be impossible to do now; this makes it feasible for them to be completely spent by some future technology thus not requiring the suit.
Just a bunch of crazy talk saying Ion crystals generate radiation. They are about as real as the ZPM's in the Stargate SG1 TV franchise, and you never hear about anyone getting radiation injuries from handling that TV show's power modules.
Interesting quote as the ZERO POINT MODULE is commenting on a theory that there is an underlying level of energy everywhere and that it might be possible to tap this for almost infinite power, then they ballsed it up by talking about other synthetic dimensions inside the crystal and other things....
Back to ion crystals, it is said that they are stable. So straight of the bat they wont give off any radiation.
This can also be backed up by there colour, there green. Radiation once slowed down is a strong blue so real life reactor rods glow blue.
Taking this even further, the devs know this as the reactor rods are blue.
The topic of the radiation suit, uranium ore is not reactive enough to bother wearing a suit for. The same goes for unused rods as the chain reaction has not been started so they are mostly harmless. Though it would be entirely necessary to wear a radiation suit for spent rods by today's standards as they still output quite a lot of radiation and heat, that is why they are kept in water pools. But in subnautica you can handle them which would be impossible to do now; this makes it feasible for them to be completely spent by some future technology thus not requiring the suit.
There's already tech in the works to use spent rods as an energy source as well. I'd imagine in the future they would have it implemented in a 2 phase fusion reactor (gameplay, not as a single unit for real imo). Include "pyroprocessing" in your search terms if you want to read about it.
Comments
Of course all suits could be seen as upgrades and a suit could have 2 upgrade slots. With these possible combinations:
As the reinforcement suit includes thermal + physical protection, a diving suit with upgrade slots could include just the base effects:
The upgradable suit could be the artmodel of the reinforced suit, only that this suit wouldn't include the upgrades. The upgrades would have to be built at the mod upgrade station. It might be possible that the base model includes a physical protection with 2 upgrade slots. The papermodel could include the suit upgrade slots. The other suits will get outdated in favour of the upgradable suit.
I also like having to choose between the reinforced suit and the stillsuit.
Just saying this for perspective reasons: I like "clutter". It's what I find appealing about survival games, to collect stuff as you go along and create stuff to be prepared for whichever scenario might come up. I consider it good game design if items from early game don't lose their use later on because they have specific traits (not counting basis items with multiple upgrade directions).
At the moment, I kinda dislike the reinforced suit because its such an end game item. Between thermal and physical resistance, it's borderline pointless to even have (it in) the paperdoll unless you're really out of drink options. Obvs managing suits should not be a hassle, but some balancing towards making the rad suit (periodicially) useful throughout the game is something I favor over making it a one-note item.
I like zetachron's idea, in part because it'd allow thermal and physical resistance to be split. Never much of a fan of the lack of a helmet on the reinforced suit either - everything burns except my face?? I reckon helmet and glove upgrades would enjoy the same "freebie" status as fins currently do.
But... honestly speaking, I feel that's kind of the opposite purpose in a survival game; in cases where you're trying to survive, you typically don't want any such clutter because survival is about bare necessities and making do with what you have. What you're describing feels closer to an adventure game, not a survival game - in the former, you can afford to hoard and gather, but in the latter you tend to either make what you need or recycle what you don't need into something you do, because "clutter" is a luxury you simply don't have the space for and especially not if those resources can be put to better use as something else. If nothing else, that's my take on what good game design for a survival experience would be.
Not true; it's made working at the deeper depths and surviving creature encounters much easier, as well as establishing thermal generators near vents - it even helped me survive a Leviathan encounter once. It's hardly an endgame-spicific item - if anything, it's my go-to suit of choice after I no longer need the rad suit. Of course, that's just personal experience talking, but I've found I needed it for far more than just to go to the ILZ.
In all fairness, the rebreather unit that you'd arguably need to breathe at those depths covers your whole face as well, so that wouldn't be so much of an issue. Hair, on the other hand, IDK about.
That'd be about right, as my love for (the concept of) survival games comes from adventure games (and goes through life simulation games). It's not a corner of the spectrum that's well-populated (certainly not by modern games), so it's in my interest that Subnautica -- as an exploration-survival game -- takes up residence. I understand that isn't a universal POV, hence why I prefaced with "for perspective reasons".
We're talking about the same thing, just miscommunicating on terminology. What I mean with "end game item" is that once you've got it, that's what you'll use from then on. There's little to no reason to consider the other suits once the reinforced suit comes in. Compare to the vehicles where each of them has its pros and cons that doesn't make one better than the other (this is aside from whether any of them fit your personal play style or not). I would like to see more balance like that with the suits. If zetachron's suggestion wouldn't be feasible, the least that can be done is give the other two suits secondary benefits too, or even tertiary ones. The rad suit could incorporate acid protection and maybe the stillsuit could protect against warp balls.
(Of course, as I would love to see the sub-seafloor levels get the same complexity as the seafloor biomes, I'd like to have a biome that's naturally emits radiation and entering it would require the rad suit as much as the LZ requires the reinforced suit, but that'd be a lot more work than adding the extra benefits.)
To me that's like Charles McGill's EMH 'condition' in Better Call Saul. While it might really be a thing (modern science and medicine debunks it, and I personally don't think it's a thing) I can get behind it within the confines of the show - adding drama and tension, and sympathizing people taking the "victim's" word to heart as opposed to his brother Jimmy, what with his shady past. The thought of just being exposed to electromagnetic fields causing pain, discomfort, and possibly bodily harm I could comprehend and offer a pass.
However, even within that realm of belief, what I simply can't get behind is Chuck's delusion that a fully charged battery can cause him severe discomfort (which should be noted was finally disproved in S3E5 "Chicanery"!). Batteries just sitting on their own don't conduct electricity or generate electromagnetic fields - if that were a thing, then they would cause harm to other electronic devices that were nearby, or shorten their lifespan at least. Batteries store energy in an inert state, and I would imagine Ion Crystals would operate on the same principle: You can unleash their power if done properly, but just handling them normally won't cause radiation poisoning or EMH distress.
You're assuming they had a biology vulnerable to that kind of radiation, though. Or that the crystals aren't just designed in such a way as to contain said lethal radiation - there's really no other reason why they'd glow, honestly, since you could just have a light or other utility for pretty much any conceivable reason you'd need illumination.
"Perspective reasons" isn't quite what I'd use to describe it, though, because it seems like you'd have to force Subnautica to fit into that niche since... well, honestly speaking, it's not really a survival game anymore. It's an adventure game with survival elements, not an actual open-world survival game - or again, at least not anymore. That's a route it's been going ever since Cory Strader started pushing to have the ILZ closed off everywhere but the Lost River to force players down there, rather than leaving it open for exploration and discovery (especially since putting a needed prison key in the lost river would ensure people have to go there anyway without actively shrinking their environments). It doesn't really feel like the spectrum you're talking about really fits it, since survival and adventure are really two separate genres - it's true they can mesh at times, but they're not inherent nor exclusive to one-another; adventure games are games you love for the story and progression, while survival is from the experience and real-world immersion. Those concepts don't always blend together perfectly, so it just doesn't feel right to me to judge how one should be exclusively off of experiences through the other.
Actually, that's not quite the case; there's no miscommunication at all. My point is that I think it's a mistake to classify the reinforced dive suit as an "end game item" purely because it becomes your go-to - an end-game item is something you either get at the end of the game or absolutely must have to progress to the end-game. The Prawn is an end-game item; MK-III pressure compensators are end game items; the blue prison keys are end game items; the leviathan hatching enzymes are end game items; the rocket blueprints are end-game items. The reinforced diving suit, in my opinion at least, is not an end game item, because it's use can vary between players - some people prefer the Stillsuit so as to have an easier time keeping hydrated, for instance, and don't need to exit their vehicles in hot or dangerous zones for gathering as much as others do. We're really not talking about the same thing in that regard, because my talking about how useful I find the reinforced dive suit is already something relative to my own experiences, since I seem to have less luck dodging dangerous creatures than others like @zetachron apparently do.
I really can't think of any reason why anything in the game would naturally emit such high levels of radiation, though.
Nicest way I can say this - and I honestly do not mean to offend, but I'm not dealing with genre purism. I find it detrimental and don't have encouraging experience entering discussion about it. Plus I'd have the difficulty here of balancing my argument for what Subnautica may be to satisfy demands from all angles (that are already on board) vs. what would create the best game experience for me. I only wrote my bit to show that there are conflicting wishes for the game and that's where I'll leave that at. I hope you understand.
Also nicest way I can say this, this entire paragraph (and the other one too, come to think of it) has zero to do with what *I* wanted to talk about. You know that. The "actually"-ing is shaky and can be aimed right back, but that would do nothing but derail the point I know you're aiming to make, so why would I? Why would you? Whatever the answer, I'm not dealing.
It's a game. We already have a list that goes on for days on things that are impossible, unreasonable, or mightily convenient. If it helps the fun of it, then let there be whatever that causes radiation.
That's just it, though; it's less "purism" and more precision of terminology - something that's imperative in deciding precisely what it is you want from a game. The overall experience you want is determined by what kind of genre you're most partial to vs what elements of other genres you wouldn't mind seeing or think best fit it. That kind of debate really isn't something you can just... avoid, I think. In fact, "detrimental" is the last word I'd use to describe it, since it's crucial for the dev's side of things in determining what people want most out of it as well as defining what players should or should not expect or what the devs should expect from said audience. It's only really a negative if debating with someone who's just looking to rail against a genre he hates, but that in and of itself isn't inherent to having those definitions - you don't need to be a "purist" to care about those kind of definitions.
It's not a matter of understanding or not; just that I don't agree with your feelings on it. I'm sorry in advance if that's not what you want to hear, but I think defining where it is that Subnautica really stands ATM is important to defining what would or wouldn't be best to see from it.
But that... well, frankly speaking, not true in the slightest. You yourself said your discussion was about the reinforced dive suit being an "end game item" - I'm saying I disagree with your claim on that. And as it stands right now... you're not even actually saying what else you thought the debate was about, if not on the reinforced dive suit's relative usefulness as you yourself had brought up. The first paragraph addresses what you wanted to talk about because it's me expressing that Subnautica, if it was meant to be a survival game, probably shouldn't have the kind of "clutter" you said you liked to see in adventure games as it doesn't really reflect a proper survival experience; The second paragraph addresses what you wanted to talk about because it's me expressing that I don't agree with your claims on the reinforced dive suit being an "end game item" rather than something with relative usefulness depending on play-type.
To make a long story short... nothing was actually derailed. I'm just long-winded in explaining my side of things.
"It's a game" doesn't automatically write a story or lore, though. Even throughout all the above, one agreed-upon aspect was that radiation generally has to have a source, as well as a reason for it being there - the Aurora's is that it's quantum dark-matter ion whatever core ruptured; what's the reason for a natural source of such radiation in contrast to the artificial, man-made source on the Aurora? I'm not even being judgemental (and if it sounds as such, I'm sorry in advance) - I'm just curious what the actual hook is meant to be with it.
Not arguing on long-windedness there. Like, what I want from a game is less pressing than what I want from you: to recognize boundaries. I've communicated I disapprove of these convo methods (and, I'll add, a seeming unknowing of the adventure genre's flexibility) and do not wish to be cajoled into treading paths you alone pick.
I'm a weakling to questions, so I will reply here. If you can keep this topic on this level of mutuality I won't mind continuing convo on it either (not "debate"; I'm not signing up for any "debate").
A setup could be large underground deposits of uranite past the walls of such a biome that are pulled to the surface by flora, which would have a biological composition that turns the uranite into a radiation source. Bottom feeders could have a similar interaction, or just fishies that eat the plants and create the rad that-a-way. (I think I'd be partial to snails in a biome like that; combine it with pooled acid and you get reasonable stagnation horror). The condition would serve the local life by keeping foreign ones out. A discovery point could be a half-finished excavation facility abandoned when thermal energy was settled on. Seems to me like a nice variation on the other facilities.
A similar but different scenario is if it would be populated by fishy hoarders in the same way the KF is. Their loot of choice would be uranite, which they'd be able to process and thereby use as a defense mechanism. A perk there'd be that stalker behavior and lava lizard behavior would get a third, creating a higher level of gameplay saturation on that angle. (Gameplay saturation is something I think SN could in general do better, hence why I want more use for the rad suit.)
But that's just it; my own argument was about recognizing the boundaries a game's genre defines said game with, and in turn how it translates into figuring out what features best benefit a game and what it's audience most expect from it. Furthermore, you're confusing the adventure genre's adaptability - how much it can or cannot mesh with other genres - as being stand-alone flexibility, and without counting how much setting and theme affect it either. Finally, your own initial argument was entirely about said "perspective reasons"; a path you alone picked to tread this down - why even say that if you weren't going to treat the view as subjective?
A convo and debate are largely the same thing when it comes to discussing what works in a game, though; IDK if you can't very well avoid that on forums specifically made to provide subjective and/or objective feedback on something.
A big issue with that idea is that there's no guarantee that uranite's even an "active" isotope like uranium is (enough to irradiate, that is) - heck, as a natural part of it's decay, uranite contains oxides of lead, which is a natural radiation dampener; it typically has to be purified into uranium to get the intense enough concentrations you're talking about for real, harmful radiation. Whether or not same flora that pulls it up wouldn't be so resistant to it as to dampen any such radiation is also a factor.
Honestly speaking, it seems more economic in the long run just to have the radiation suit's rad-resistant materials be the basis of another suit like the reinforced dive suit. Heck, I'm all for new biomes, but building a whole new one purely to justify continued use of one spicific suit... I'm not sure if the devs would think it worth the effort.
Forgive me for not going into all the myriad of details about this. There's far more to this issue than is easily explained in any simple post or in very helpful wiki articles. Yes, any reaction is going to let off EM "radiation", that's just not what most scientists are talking about when they talk about radiation. The fact that it can harm you is irrelevant since anything can harm you in sufficient quantities. "Harmful" radiation is radiation that will cause significant harm in any quantity. Also EM radiation is produced from virtually any source of heat and is not unique to nuclear reactions.
An no, I meant what I said. Radioactive isotopes are letting off particles because they're unstable. No pure fusion reaction ever produces a radioactive isotope as a product. The neutrons you reference are purely a product of the massive amount of energy being released and are not isotopes of anything.
Yes, all nuclear reactions are harmful to be around
Interesting quote as the ZERO POINT MODULE is commenting on a theory that there is an underlying level of energy everywhere and that it might be possible to tap this for almost infinite power, then they ballsed it up by talking about other synthetic dimensions inside the crystal and other things....
Back to ion crystals, it is said that they are stable. So straight of the bat they wont give off any radiation.
This can also be backed up by there colour, there green. Radiation once slowed down is a strong blue so real life reactor rods glow blue.
Taking this even further, the devs know this as the reactor rods are blue.
The topic of the radiation suit, uranium ore is not reactive enough to bother wearing a suit for. The same goes for unused rods as the chain reaction has not been started so they are mostly harmless. Though it would be entirely necessary to wear a radiation suit for spent rods by today's standards as they still output quite a lot of radiation and heat, that is why they are kept in water pools. But in subnautica you can handle them which would be impossible to do now; this makes it feasible for them to be completely spent by some future technology thus not requiring the suit.
There's already tech in the works to use spent rods as an energy source as well. I'd imagine in the future they would have it implemented in a 2 phase fusion reactor (gameplay, not as a single unit for real imo). Include "pyroprocessing" in your search terms if you want to read about it.