Creature population needs culling
Lulzes
Join Date: 2017-07-25 Member: 232050Members
Join Date: 2017-07-25 Member: 232050Members
I've been drawing out my run on the Stable build waiting until the endgame is added, but I've noticed that playing for so long the predators are starting to migrate. Ampeels and Bonesharks in particular have started migrating from the Bulb Zone into the nearby Mushroom Forest, and they just keep laying eggs and expanding.
I read somewhere that the devs aren't keen on giving creatures too much AI, which is a shame as I think it would really improve the game. Weren't there plans for different classes of creature, i.e. Alphas, Breeders etc.?
Predators need to attack certain other species, e.g. Ampeels attack Bonesharks, while Bonesharks hunt Mesmers. The Reapers in particular need to be able to kill rather than just injure the smaller predators (as some people have noted, they hardly do any damage to them), so they cull them and keep them from spreading. I'm not sure if Warpers already cull infected creatures, but in some areas they are the only other predators so having them be the top predator would keep the others in check, as Warpers don't breed.
Some more interaction between predators and prey fish would also be good, to encourage predators to move from their safe zones into contact with their own hunters. So for example Hoopfish might not be eaten by Ampeels, so they would hang out with them, so the Bonesharks that eat them would be forced to interact with the Ampeels to feed. The rays for example are poisonous, but some predators should be indiscriminate and munch on the occaisional venom dinner. Interaction with flora too would add more depth - each species having its own diet.
It's also a bit immersion-breaking that you can't do much with the corpses of larger creatures except put them in a Bioreactor - I guess for gameplay reasons you can't hunt them for food, that would be too easy. I've noticed that Biters attack the corpses of dead fish, even their own species, and I'd love to see that mechanic extended to other carrion eaters. They should migrate to wherever a corpse is, but again they should have their own predators to keep them in check.
I know AI is a slippery slope... I mean, you could have some predators hunting in packs, like Bonesharks, and going for larger prey like baby Reefbacks or even Reapers (they already seem to attack the Cyclops in packs!) The emergent gameplay you could get from breeding and seeding species to see the interactions...
I read somewhere that the devs aren't keen on giving creatures too much AI, which is a shame as I think it would really improve the game. Weren't there plans for different classes of creature, i.e. Alphas, Breeders etc.?
Predators need to attack certain other species, e.g. Ampeels attack Bonesharks, while Bonesharks hunt Mesmers. The Reapers in particular need to be able to kill rather than just injure the smaller predators (as some people have noted, they hardly do any damage to them), so they cull them and keep them from spreading. I'm not sure if Warpers already cull infected creatures, but in some areas they are the only other predators so having them be the top predator would keep the others in check, as Warpers don't breed.
Some more interaction between predators and prey fish would also be good, to encourage predators to move from their safe zones into contact with their own hunters. So for example Hoopfish might not be eaten by Ampeels, so they would hang out with them, so the Bonesharks that eat them would be forced to interact with the Ampeels to feed. The rays for example are poisonous, but some predators should be indiscriminate and munch on the occaisional venom dinner. Interaction with flora too would add more depth - each species having its own diet.
It's also a bit immersion-breaking that you can't do much with the corpses of larger creatures except put them in a Bioreactor - I guess for gameplay reasons you can't hunt them for food, that would be too easy. I've noticed that Biters attack the corpses of dead fish, even their own species, and I'd love to see that mechanic extended to other carrion eaters. They should migrate to wherever a corpse is, but again they should have their own predators to keep them in check.
I know AI is a slippery slope... I mean, you could have some predators hunting in packs, like Bonesharks, and going for larger prey like baby Reefbacks or even Reapers (they already seem to attack the Cyclops in packs!) The emergent gameplay you could get from breeding and seeding species to see the interactions...
Comments
Bleeders will speed over to one of their own that has been killed and chomp it en masse in Experimental (don't know if that's the case in Stable).
Your not supposed to kill stuff. The devs didn't include real weapons because they didn't want this to be a violent game. Giving corpses a use would be pretty contradictory.
I don't think the devs chose not to include weapons because they didn't want any killing, I think they just wanted it to be more of a challenge. Shooting a Stalker wouldn't be fun (plus underwater physics, etc.) but freezing it with the Stasis rifle and then knifing it to death, well that's a bit more hands-on isn't it? It's impossible not to kill stuff - speed around for a bit in your Seamoth and you'll splat a few small fish on your windscreen. It's not like the devs want a pacifist game.
I remember the devs saying they wanted an alternative way to beat the game, rather than killing everything that moves. Of course in killing everything that moves you end up taking the fun out of the game and it makes the game a lot more cliche
http://kotaku.com/revulsion-with-real-guns-inspired-developer-to-make-a-g-1768960503
Fair point
The revulsion is misplaced. It's (some) humans that are the problem, not the tools they use. Hence almost every shooting happens in an area where law abiding citizens can't defend themselves (murder is disgusting enough, murder vs someone who couldn't possibly begin to mount an effective defense, a slaughter, is just beyond the pale). Something's really really twisted in someone's head for them to do that. Either demented sick pleasure in killing, with no empathy, or blinding rage fueled by pain, or both.
If you've reached a point where someone will start a massacre, there are no rules that will help you defend against that, unless you have a police state where everyone is practically in their own padded cell. See: any of the recent vehicle attacks. Honestly, it's a good thing crazies like that aren't the brightest, as, if they were, they would be a lot harder to stop.
See here:
..and many more.
less likely to acquire, but still possible (note the weapons weren't even used):
With that mindset anything could be a weapon but I don't see the devs taking everything out of the game
You summarized that quite nicely: indeed, everything is a weapon in the "right" (wrong?) frame of mind. Even your bare hands.
Not saying anything about guns and their debate, (I actually agree with you entirely about guns users being the problem) I'm just passing along the devs message. I personally feel no guns in Subnuatica is a great disicion. It fits the idea of Alterra being a corporate dictator that wants it's citizens unarmed to avoid resistance, and forces you to think of other ways to deal with the problems of the game. Find a way to avoid the stalker, don't pump it full of titanium/lead alloy bullets! It also makes subnuatica a unique game compared to all the shooters out their
Totally agree. It adds a touch of emergence to the game - I imagine people will come up with novel ways of dealing with the dangers in the game, the devs have given us a few interesting tools. Maybe a few more as the game grows, and a few interesting interactions will emerge. What happens if you shoot a vortex torpedo into a gas cloud? Do they interupt a Warper warping? Maybe more of that sort of stuff needs to be in the game to compensate for not just straight up being able to kill stuff.
I'm actually suprised that they added poison gas torpedos in a game supposedly containing no weapons. Seems a bit like a weapon to me...
Consider it a form of repellent, similar to tear gas or mosquito spray, rather than a leathal weapon.
As to the OP, I agree that critters need to be more developed. I've never actually seen a reaper attack anything other than me or my wife. I see stalkers eat things all the time. But it would add a level of strategy to the game if you knew that reapers were strictly nocturnal or bone sharks never dropped below 600m or just anything about the creatures that would let you plan ways around them or suffer consequences for failing to plan for their behavior.
I'm sure it was entirely justified...
He did look at me funny.
The Devs never wanted a game against killing but rather against getting the easy way out and butchering a stalker with titanium alloy bullets
It might be considered hypocritical, but it's been done before and on far grander scale. The oft-touted (for reasons I've never understood) Mirror's Edge took the same approach. You have a player character with the self-defense abilities of a yam versus SWAT guys and soldiers with heavy weapons. It forces the player into a nearly completely nonviolent play style - in part because Faith clearly doesn't know how to use a gun, in part because getting her to complete a hand-to-hand maneuver requires Vulcan Neck Pinching the controller - even though the game world is trying to kill you either passively (maneuvering failure) or actively (getting shot).
Where Subnautica fixed the Mirror's Edge problem, though, was in placing the game in an open world setting. ME became so infuriating in part due to its constrained design: trapped in a linear level, it's less strategy and tactics and more puzzle - which way did the developers decide I should go to escape? Telepathy isn't a viable gameplay design. SN, however, gives us options on evading death and/or dismemberment - run, hide, employ a deterrent device, use a decoy - and gives the player space in which to enact that plan.
I enjoy shooting as a sport and guns as examples of incredible engineering. Shooting is something that requires focus, discipline, and dexterity - zen meditation with loud noises. When you look at the engineering of almost any firearm, seeing how the various problems are solved is fascinating (especially when you discover that the same solution for a few problems has been employed almost everywhere with little variation). That said, I find Subnautica a refreshing challenge, just as I found Deus Ex refreshing.
Perhaps the best context I can put it in is to say how much I loved Ocean's Eleven and Thirteen. (Twelve stunk.) Any fool can accomplish a goal with enough firepower: accomplishing a goal through finesse and guile, though...far more impressive.
Never excessive. Crabsquid = scary underwater spider thing with bad attitude. If that's not a paddlin', I don't know what is.
Same goes for cave crawlers.
I couldn't agree more, @SouthernGorilla. Good game design nearly always revolves around forcing the player to plan ahead. Any of the modifications you've mentioned would make the game far, far better - and all of them together would be exceptional. "Know thy enemy" and all that Sun Tzu folderol. A game that employs strategy over blind luck is always better for it.
Nay sayers can say it's imbalanced to kill a zone, but how hard is it really to just scoot through most areas? If I want to invest several hours into my playthrough to farm and breed a critter, while an area takes 60 seconds to scoot through and another 10 seconds to repair on the other side, then why not?