I didn't read all the responses. So, apologies in advance if I repeat what someone else said.
If the developers decided to allow the infection to kill you, then, IMO, they would need to do the following:
1. Add infection to the HUD so you could track its progress there like health, oxygen, food, water.
2. Provide some way to slow the infection.
Then, somewhere along in the plot, players would learn about the infection--at which point it would be added to the HUD. Before the infection started actually killing you, we would need a plot point telling you where to go or what to do to slow it down. For example, maybe all the "hero Peepers" hang out in some part of the ocean that you must travel to every 3-5 game days or something.
No. Only because sometimes it can be a struggle to get to the cure plus it can make people feel rushed and cause them to make mistakes. Perhaps having the disease could hinder your stats. Eg: Slower movement speed, oxygen depleting quicker underwater, food/water bar drain quicker. Stuff like that.
If the developers wanted to include the option to turn it on and off (like decompression sickness) at the players own will, then I could support it. It's just to much of a burden to make it a mandatory part of the game. Subnauitca is an adventure/survival game. If you don't let the player adventure on their own, all you do is create a pipeline to rush to the ending as fast as possible, and that isn't fun.
I can see the disease becoming a major nuisance later in the game if not treated, but it should not kill the player or put a time limit on the game.
One way I see things working would be to change the disease trigger to not be linked to the disease research facility, but rather based on game progress/long timer like the comm relay signals are.
Before that point, the player would not have any symptoms, but afterwards various debuffs would be applied to the player over time. The end stage should be serious enough that even though the disease doesn't outright kill the player, it will make things much more difficult until it is treated (reduced health/oxygen, slower movement, occasional blackouts for a few seconds, occasional coughing bouts that damage health, faster food/water use, vomiting that rapidly depletes food/water, etc). Technically the coughing bouts could kill the player if they literally do nothing to restore their health between bouts in the same way that not eating or drinking will eventually kill the player.
The infection can be put into remission by interacting with hero peepers. The remission time should be at least a few game days, long enough that the player can put the disease into remission and then have plenty of time to mount an expedition to the PCF provided most other preparations are in place. After the disease trigger, these would spawn and seek out the player occasionally in places where Peepers normally spawn like the Safe Shallows for players who dawdled there and never really progressed so they wouldn't be completely crippled by the disease. Of course they would always be present near the pipe exits whenever the player needs one.
For this last part, I have a few ideas and I'm not sure which one would work best. I'm kind of leaning towards #1 since the others would effectively make the disease a non-issue.
1. The player probably shouldn't be able to grab the Hero Peepers. Attempting to grab them will temporarily cure the player and the hero peeper will swim away. Otherwise players would just stockpile excessively large numbers of Hero Peepers by farming the pipe exits and filling aquariums, and the disease mechanic would lose its sense of urgency to find a cure.
2. The player can grab Hero Peepers and store them in aquariums/alien containment. Hero Peepers would breed normal peepers, and each hero peeper can only heal the player once. With enough aquariums, the player could stockpile a significant number of Hero Peepers for whenever a cure is needed.
3. Hero Peepers can be processed into a stackable cure item using the fabricator. Always carry a cure or two in your inventory at all times with more in lockers back at base.
I didn't read all the responses. So, apologies in advance if I repeat what someone else said.
If the developers decided to allow the infection to kill you, then, IMO, they would need to do the following:
1. Add infection to the HUD so you could track its progress there like health, oxygen, food, water.
2. Provide some way to slow the infection.
Then, somewhere along in the plot, players would learn about the infection--at which point it would be added to the HUD. Before the infection started actually killing you, we would need a plot point telling you where to go or what to do to slow it down. For example, maybe all the "hero Peepers" hang out in some part of the ocean that you must travel to every 3-5 game days or something.
This, exactly (though I voted yes with similar stipulations). It has the potential for interesting gameplay.
I voted "No" because you didn't give us an "Other" option. I think permadeath by Carar with a countdown would be neat to have as an option, but I would not want it forced on players.
No no no, putting a time limit on the game is a terrible idea. That kills any possibility of casually exploring and enjoying the scenery. Having to play fast because you're on a clock would ruin the game, IMO.
Back in the day, there was a game that had hard-and-fast timers. Don't accomplish these goals by these time limits, you die, game over, restart. The game was Fallout. And the players, well, the players pitched a fit. Here you have this enormous world but you don't get to appreciate it because you're constantly running from one fire to another while the timer ticks away. Got the water chip! Great, now you're on a new timer. Go destroy all those super mutants or your game's going to end. Destroyed the mutants! Great; game's over, no more playing for you.
It was...absurd. A game with tons of depth, lots to see and explore, and you blow through it at 102 miles per hour to beat the clock. You can't enjoy it.
So Interplay relented. Yes, the water chip is still a hard timed event. But the mutant thing...we're going to knock the timer off that. Explore to your heart's content. So you're on the clock for the first half - the part that revolves around the events that set the whole plot in motion - but the rest, you're at your liberty. And people loved it. I was one of them. Now we can explore and experience this vast and varied world!
Fast forward 20 years. Now we have Subnautica, a game set in a vast and varied world. One with game mechanics that give you the ability to enjoy the world as you like to, with options for base building and more that just boggle the mind. As game worlds go, it's one that just begs to be explored and experienced.
And just like Fallout, slapping an arbitrary timer on it, this countdown sword of Damocles, will wreck the game for a lot of players. Personally, I enjoy Subnautica as a relaxation game, and so do plenty of other folks. Grafting a timer onto it would be out of place and a serious imposition.
Implementing it as an enable/disable option is a poor solution; it'd be like an enable/disable option on the day cycle or warpers being able to warp you. Picking and choosing individual game features off a checklist is fine for hyper-complex games like Stellaris or Civilization, but it's out of place here. The only reasonable option would be adding into Hardcore, possibly even as a Hardcode+ mode accessible only after beating normal Hardcore. But grafting it into the game on the whole cuts against the grain.
If it was in its own mode sure. If it's the main game, no. I'm also going to disagree with all the sub symptoms like reducing oxygen etc. All these things are in the game already. We have to work ourselves up from having nothing. To having good gear. That accomplishment being screwed up by the disease wouldn't be fair. Second, there are aspects of the game that I have problems doing. I've played this game for a year. And I never figured my way around the Inactive Lava Zone and Active Lava Zone. I personally don't like using walkthroughs etc. These aspects are very annoying to me. I don't hate them. It's just apart of the game that I don't care for. Putting a clock or reducing my characters effectiveness will make it more annoying for me to go to these areas I don't even like going to.
I've never completed exploring down there. Due to some reason. Like, I hate the Cyclops and wish I could use the Seamoth down there. Unless they add the ability to make the ship go vertical. So you can fit down the small gaps to the Lava Zone. Or that the prawn suit didn't suck at movement. I know a lot of you will see me as complaining. But I rather have fun. The exploring and finding out about the virus and all the stuff above the the surface is great. Going into crappy dark caves, getting trick for 5 minutes that I'm in the void area of the map. Because the cave walls are the same textures. Other stuff that impedes the cyclopes will just be amplified and make me not want to bother to complete the game. I'll just than cheat, teleport to the key locations, get the required junk, not having fun, and finish the rocket stuff. Or not bother with the story and just leave the game in creative mode. I don't have a lot of time to play games. So I prefer relaxing fun times. A ticking clock was never fun when swimming though electrified seaweed in TMNT. It won't be here. Would Zelda Breath Of The Wild be playable if you had a time limit? It be more realistic. Zelda giving out and Gannon takes over. But I wouldn't bother with anything in the game.
If it was implemented in the game. Than other aspects must be better. First, the Cyclops has to be improved. Vertical option like I said before. Don't be like Star Trek and forget Space is 3D. Night-Vision mode (Sonar is a pretty useless addon), and any caves you traverse is mapped. Generating a HUD map. So you can see where you're going when you have to get out. This honestly should be in the game. The game has tech that can create all this equipment from a replicator. But we have no way to map everywhere we go?
No; he's actually half-right. It's just that there's a short-term remission provided for.
To explain; according to the in-game data recovered in the Disease Research Facility, the Carar does in fact kill within two weeks of gestating and maturing... if left untreated. Fortunately, enough Enzyme 42 gets around via Peepers to keep it at bay for the most part - even severe or terminal cases can last quite a long time... unless killed by infection-hunting Warpers, of course.
Simply put, the "Hero Peepers" aspect is the in-game justification for why you don't die, despite the disease's data profile saying it kills in two weeks after hitting the final stage. Granted, you can't leave the planet because of that, but at the very least you won't die from the infection itself.
I do thank everyone who participated in this poll (even though I wasn't clear in my description sry about that) from what I read i see only few options to make this happen
1-adding it to hardcore (or another mode hardcore+)
2-giving the player the ability to craft a temporary cure that will hault it progress
3-adding it as a custom option before starting a game
I'm sorry if I missed anyone's suggestion
But once again thank you guys for telling me what you think about
I agree, This is all based on probability and percentages. Survivability in certain biomes is set not by the players expectation's of outcomes but by how many resources are available in any given area. Seriously it took quite the expedition to even find the core. Let alone find the Blue pre-cursor key that allowed me into the Gateway network access itself. I did however manage to build a habitat that accessed what I called the Gates of Hades.
The pressure there was so great that as soon as the primary habitat structure was built pressure cracks in the hull began forming so I had to immediately start shipping lithium in from the surface stations to reinforce. 3 Trips to bring in enough lithium and titanium to reinforce to 150.
I agree, This is all based on probability and percentages. Survivability in certain biomes is set not by the players expectation's of outcomes but by how many resources are available in any given area. Seriously it took quite the expedition to even find the core. Let alone find the Blue pre-cursor key that allowed me into the Gateway network access itself. I did however manage to build a habitat that accessed what I called the Gates of Hades.
The pressure there was so great that as soon as the primary habitat structure was built pressure cracks in the hull began forming so I had to immediately start shipping lithium in from the surface stations to reinforce. 3 Trips to bring in enough lithium and titanium to reinforce to 150.
I think the point @Stillgard is making is that it takes a ton of time and effort just to build a base deep down enough to easily reach the Containment Facility, let alone find the stuff needed to get in - so much so that adding a timer from Carar lethality to all that might make it a lot more difficult to enjoy.
I think the point @Stillgard is making is that it takes a ton of time and effort just to build a base deep down enough to easily reach the Containment Facility, let alone find the stuff needed to get in - so much so that adding a timer from Carar lethality to all that might make it a lot more difficult to enjoy.
Ok now i get it but as I said before it doesn't have to be a thing in survival mode but only in hardcore mode beacause as of now hardcore isn't challenging at all it's just permadeath so adding it to hardcore should make things more challenging (also maybe changing it's name to realistic is better) but all in all I don't want it in survival beacause I know what people are doing in survival (especially youtubers) have you seen one of them assuming that they will get killed by the infection ?
Did you see how somtimes they die easily from things that really isn't an issue
but the point is some people get bored after knowing the creatures behaviors AI
And where to find this and that.
Making the infection kill you in hardcore should make people that likes challenges interested in playing this mode but that's just my opinion
Ok now i get it but as I said before it doesn't have to be a thing in survival mode but only in hardcore mode beacause as of now hardcore isn't challenging at all it's just permadeath so adding it to hardcore should make things more challenging (also maybe changing it's name to realistic is better) but all in all I don't want it in survival beacause I know what people are doing in survival (especially youtubers) have you seen one of them assuming that they will get killed by the infection ?
Did you see how somtimes they die easily from things that really isn't an issue
but the point is some people get bored after knowing the creatures behaviors AI
And where to find this and that.
Making the infection kill you in hardcore should make people that likes challenges interested in playing this mode but that's just my opinion
You're still missing his point - which is that, in regards to how many resources you can carry at any one time and the time needed to even get a sub with enough containers to cart it all down, it might be flat-out impossible to ever realistically beat that kind of timer. Based on the logistics alone, it could very well be impossible to do - and even if it isn't, you'd have to be so under-the-gun all the time that you wouldn't be liable to enjoy the game anymore.
There's a difference between having challenge and having tedious timers, and "Carar infection = death" feels like it'd just be the latter at worst, or enjoyment-killing at best.
Ok now i get it but as I said before it doesn't have to be a thing in survival mode but only in hardcore mode beacause as of now hardcore isn't challenging at all it's just permadeath so adding it to hardcore should make things more challenging (also maybe changing it's name to realistic is better) but all in all I don't want it in survival beacause I know what people are doing in survival (especially youtubers) have you seen one of them assuming that they will get killed by the infection ?
Did you see how somtimes they die easily from things that really isn't an issue
but the point is some people get bored after knowing the creatures behaviors AI
And where to find this and that.
Making the infection kill you in hardcore should make people that likes challenges interested in playing this mode but that's just my opinion
You're still missing his point - which is that, in regards to how many resources you can carry at any one time and the time needed to even get a sub with enough containers to cart it all down, it might be flat-out impossible to ever realistically beat that kind of timer. Based on the logistics alone, it could very well be impossible to do - and even if it isn't, you'd have to be so under-the-gun all the time that you wouldn't be liable to enjoy the game anymore.
There's a difference between having challenge and having tedious timers, and "Carar infection = death" feels like it'd just be the latter at worst, or enjoyment-killing at best.
Ok forget about death timer and stuff why not make the infection negatively affect the player as people have suggested before?
Btw it's still in early access so and still the devs said before that before the launch they'll do a full balance pass on everything so and also it's not like this is something coming to the game in 1.0
Ok forget about death timer and stuff why not make the infection negatively affect the player as people have suggested before?
Btw it's still in early access so and still the devs said before that before the launch they'll do a full balance pass on everything so and also it's not like this is something coming to the game in 1.0
You can try that, but I still wouldn't advise it as being mandated - make it an optional condition, maybe, but having it be an automatic aspect would probably tick people off. I will agree with you however that there's still a bit of balancing to be done, but the game's also due to launch within the next few months - IDK how much more different it would be from the current version aside from stability tweeks.
Ok forget about death timer and stuff why not make the infection negatively affect the player as people have suggested before?
Btw it's still in early access so and still the devs said before that before the launch they'll do a full balance pass on everything so and also it's not like this is something coming to the game in 1.0
You can try that, but I still wouldn't advise it as being mandated - make it an optional condition, maybe, but having it be an automatic aspect would probably tick people off. I will agree with you however that there's still a bit of balancing to be done, but the game's also due to launch within the next few months - IDK how much more different it would be from the current version aside from stability tweeks.
Don't worry these guys have always surprised us
I said earlier making it an option to customize your game (much like osiris new dawn) seems good or making it hardcore exclusive is the only possible way we can see this feature but we still haven't reached 1.0 yet so for now let's just wait for mr.Rocket to come and play with us
Comments
If the developers decided to allow the infection to kill you, then, IMO, they would need to do the following:
1. Add infection to the HUD so you could track its progress there like health, oxygen, food, water.
2. Provide some way to slow the infection.
Then, somewhere along in the plot, players would learn about the infection--at which point it would be added to the HUD. Before the infection started actually killing you, we would need a plot point telling you where to go or what to do to slow it down. For example, maybe all the "hero Peepers" hang out in some part of the ocean that you must travel to every 3-5 game days or something.
But then there would be more use for seaglide later in the game
The sea glide has plenty of use throughout the entire game. Quicker travel is always beneficial, especially when exploring wrecks
One way I see things working would be to change the disease trigger to not be linked to the disease research facility, but rather based on game progress/long timer like the comm relay signals are.
Before that point, the player would not have any symptoms, but afterwards various debuffs would be applied to the player over time. The end stage should be serious enough that even though the disease doesn't outright kill the player, it will make things much more difficult until it is treated (reduced health/oxygen, slower movement, occasional blackouts for a few seconds, occasional coughing bouts that damage health, faster food/water use, vomiting that rapidly depletes food/water, etc). Technically the coughing bouts could kill the player if they literally do nothing to restore their health between bouts in the same way that not eating or drinking will eventually kill the player.
The infection can be put into remission by interacting with hero peepers. The remission time should be at least a few game days, long enough that the player can put the disease into remission and then have plenty of time to mount an expedition to the PCF provided most other preparations are in place. After the disease trigger, these would spawn and seek out the player occasionally in places where Peepers normally spawn like the Safe Shallows for players who dawdled there and never really progressed so they wouldn't be completely crippled by the disease. Of course they would always be present near the pipe exits whenever the player needs one.
For this last part, I have a few ideas and I'm not sure which one would work best. I'm kind of leaning towards #1 since the others would effectively make the disease a non-issue.
1. The player probably shouldn't be able to grab the Hero Peepers. Attempting to grab them will temporarily cure the player and the hero peeper will swim away. Otherwise players would just stockpile excessively large numbers of Hero Peepers by farming the pipe exits and filling aquariums, and the disease mechanic would lose its sense of urgency to find a cure.
2. The player can grab Hero Peepers and store them in aquariums/alien containment. Hero Peepers would breed normal peepers, and each hero peeper can only heal the player once. With enough aquariums, the player could stockpile a significant number of Hero Peepers for whenever a cure is needed.
3. Hero Peepers can be processed into a stackable cure item using the fabricator. Always carry a cure or two in your inventory at all times with more in lockers back at base.
This, exactly (though I voted yes with similar stipulations). It has the potential for interesting gameplay.
It was...absurd. A game with tons of depth, lots to see and explore, and you blow through it at 102 miles per hour to beat the clock. You can't enjoy it.
So Interplay relented. Yes, the water chip is still a hard timed event. But the mutant thing...we're going to knock the timer off that. Explore to your heart's content. So you're on the clock for the first half - the part that revolves around the events that set the whole plot in motion - but the rest, you're at your liberty. And people loved it. I was one of them. Now we can explore and experience this vast and varied world!
Fast forward 20 years. Now we have Subnautica, a game set in a vast and varied world. One with game mechanics that give you the ability to enjoy the world as you like to, with options for base building and more that just boggle the mind. As game worlds go, it's one that just begs to be explored and experienced.
And just like Fallout, slapping an arbitrary timer on it, this countdown sword of Damocles, will wreck the game for a lot of players. Personally, I enjoy Subnautica as a relaxation game, and so do plenty of other folks. Grafting a timer onto it would be out of place and a serious imposition.
Implementing it as an enable/disable option is a poor solution; it'd be like an enable/disable option on the day cycle or warpers being able to warp you. Picking and choosing individual game features off a checklist is fine for hyper-complex games like Stellaris or Civilization, but it's out of place here. The only reasonable option would be adding into Hardcore, possibly even as a Hardcode+ mode accessible only after beating normal Hardcore. But grafting it into the game on the whole cuts against the grain.
I...I dont think so.
Do you have any more info on this?
I think he's just suggesting that.
Wow I really shouldn't read these things late at night
My sincere apologies @TheStellarEngineer
I've never completed exploring down there. Due to some reason. Like, I hate the Cyclops and wish I could use the Seamoth down there. Unless they add the ability to make the ship go vertical. So you can fit down the small gaps to the Lava Zone. Or that the prawn suit didn't suck at movement. I know a lot of you will see me as complaining. But I rather have fun. The exploring and finding out about the virus and all the stuff above the the surface is great. Going into crappy dark caves, getting trick for 5 minutes that I'm in the void area of the map. Because the cave walls are the same textures. Other stuff that impedes the cyclopes will just be amplified and make me not want to bother to complete the game. I'll just than cheat, teleport to the key locations, get the required junk, not having fun, and finish the rocket stuff. Or not bother with the story and just leave the game in creative mode. I don't have a lot of time to play games. So I prefer relaxing fun times. A ticking clock was never fun when swimming though electrified seaweed in TMNT. It won't be here. Would Zelda Breath Of The Wild be playable if you had a time limit? It be more realistic. Zelda giving out and Gannon takes over. But I wouldn't bother with anything in the game.
If it was implemented in the game. Than other aspects must be better. First, the Cyclops has to be improved. Vertical option like I said before. Don't be like Star Trek and forget Space is 3D. Night-Vision mode (Sonar is a pretty useless addon), and any caves you traverse is mapped. Generating a HUD map. So you can see where you're going when you have to get out. This honestly should be in the game. The game has tech that can create all this equipment from a replicator. But we have no way to map everywhere we go?
No; he's actually half-right. It's just that there's a short-term remission provided for.
To explain; according to the in-game data recovered in the Disease Research Facility, the Carar does in fact kill within two weeks of gestating and maturing... if left untreated. Fortunately, enough Enzyme 42 gets around via Peepers to keep it at bay for the most part - even severe or terminal cases can last quite a long time... unless killed by infection-hunting Warpers, of course.
Simply put, the "Hero Peepers" aspect is the in-game justification for why you don't die, despite the disease's data profile saying it kills in two weeks after hitting the final stage. Granted, you can't leave the planet because of that, but at the very least you won't die from the infection itself.
1-adding it to hardcore (or another mode hardcore+)
2-giving the player the ability to craft a temporary cure that will hault it progress
3-adding it as a custom option before starting a game
I'm sorry if I missed anyone's suggestion
But once again thank you guys for telling me what you think about
I agree, This is all based on probability and percentages. Survivability in certain biomes is set not by the players expectation's of outcomes but by how many resources are available in any given area. Seriously it took quite the expedition to even find the core. Let alone find the Blue pre-cursor key that allowed me into the Gateway network access itself. I did however manage to build a habitat that accessed what I called the Gates of Hades.
The pressure there was so great that as soon as the primary habitat structure was built pressure cracks in the hull began forming so I had to immediately start shipping lithium in from the surface stations to reinforce. 3 Trips to bring in enough lithium and titanium to reinforce to 150.
?
I think the point @Stillgard is making is that it takes a ton of time and effort just to build a base deep down enough to easily reach the Containment Facility, let alone find the stuff needed to get in - so much so that adding a timer from Carar lethality to all that might make it a lot more difficult to enjoy.
Ok now i get it but as I said before it doesn't have to be a thing in survival mode but only in hardcore mode beacause as of now hardcore isn't challenging at all it's just permadeath so adding it to hardcore should make things more challenging (also maybe changing it's name to realistic is better) but all in all I don't want it in survival beacause I know what people are doing in survival (especially youtubers) have you seen one of them assuming that they will get killed by the infection ?
Did you see how somtimes they die easily from things that really isn't an issue
but the point is some people get bored after knowing the creatures behaviors AI
And where to find this and that.
Making the infection kill you in hardcore should make people that likes challenges interested in playing this mode but that's just my opinion
You're still missing his point - which is that, in regards to how many resources you can carry at any one time and the time needed to even get a sub with enough containers to cart it all down, it might be flat-out impossible to ever realistically beat that kind of timer. Based on the logistics alone, it could very well be impossible to do - and even if it isn't, you'd have to be so under-the-gun all the time that you wouldn't be liable to enjoy the game anymore.
There's a difference between having challenge and having tedious timers, and "Carar infection = death" feels like it'd just be the latter at worst, or enjoyment-killing at best.
Ok forget about death timer and stuff why not make the infection negatively affect the player as people have suggested before?
Btw it's still in early access so and still the devs said before that before the launch they'll do a full balance pass on everything so and also it's not like this is something coming to the game in 1.0
You can try that, but I still wouldn't advise it as being mandated - make it an optional condition, maybe, but having it be an automatic aspect would probably tick people off. I will agree with you however that there's still a bit of balancing to be done, but the game's also due to launch within the next few months - IDK how much more different it would be from the current version aside from stability tweeks.
Don't worry these guys have always surprised us
I said earlier making it an option to customize your game (much like osiris new dawn) seems good or making it hardcore exclusive is the only possible way we can see this feature but we still haven't reached 1.0 yet so for now let's just wait for mr.Rocket to come and play with us