Crazy about hive score... why?
MoFo1
United States Join Date: 2014-07-25 Member: 197612Members
United States Join Date: 2014-07-25 Member: 197612Members
Why are some people so crazy obsessed with their hive score?
Just came from a server where we started a 3v3 seeding game... Suddenly one guy starts flipping out because his team had an afk for 10 seconds (literally the person he was trying to kick typed he was there in time to prevent the vote from passing.. then they got mad at the "toxic community" and left) then as more people are joining the guy suddenly starts raging again because it ended up 5v7, and he was saying that only happened because people were stacking due to hive score.
You can't even join a team if they are up a player! Like the thing he was complaining about isn't even possible. (at least not on that server)
He F4'd and raged in the ready room that entire game about how it was unfair, how people stack for hive score, and on and on. (and his team almost won - if only he hadn't raged...)
Then in the next game the other team ends up being down 2 players for over 10 minutes... He didn't make a peep. Was all too happy to play that game out silently.
I just don't get it. Why do people like this care about the score SO MUCH? I mean freaking out over a 10 second afk in a 3v3 seeding game?? That's taking it pretty far. Borderline insanity.
Just came from a server where we started a 3v3 seeding game... Suddenly one guy starts flipping out because his team had an afk for 10 seconds (literally the person he was trying to kick typed he was there in time to prevent the vote from passing.. then they got mad at the "toxic community" and left) then as more people are joining the guy suddenly starts raging again because it ended up 5v7, and he was saying that only happened because people were stacking due to hive score.
You can't even join a team if they are up a player! Like the thing he was complaining about isn't even possible. (at least not on that server)
He F4'd and raged in the ready room that entire game about how it was unfair, how people stack for hive score, and on and on. (and his team almost won - if only he hadn't raged...)
Then in the next game the other team ends up being down 2 players for over 10 minutes... He didn't make a peep. Was all too happy to play that game out silently.
I just don't get it. Why do people like this care about the score SO MUCH? I mean freaking out over a 10 second afk in a 3v3 seeding game?? That's taking it pretty far. Borderline insanity.
Comments
I certainly don't care for my hive score, never have. Most regulars now know eachother and eachothers abilities, it's just the rookies or people who never really knew how the hive-skill worked to begin with who brag about hive skill.
Totally not what this thread is for. I genuinely wonder why some people care so much for hive score, and why it makes them treat every game like it's an nsl match or something...
I expected it to turn into a discussion about why some people get so obsessed and if there's any way to mitigate that without hiding the score altogether.
Especially since there was a new player in the game that left with a bad impression of this community. I could've just come here complaining about another toxic player, but instead I tried to be positive and create a thread where we can discuss it maturely.. and with any luck find a solution.
Just because you hate me is no reason for you to pointlessly attack me and attempt to make this thread negative.
Don't strive for high elo guys, it's not worth it
you obviously don't understand either since you can't explain it to them to diffuse the situation.
I wasn't even sure of this myself... I tried telling the guy "dude chill, it's a seeding game it doesn't count" but it all fell on deaf ears.
Maybe some text during games under 6v6 (obviously small and out of the way!!!!) to clearly inform players that games starting under 6v6 have hive score disabled for seeding.
That would've at least told him hive was disabled, which probably would've prevented him from raging at the new player?? I dunno just tossing ideas out there.
Bonus if there's an added little message along the lines of
"Please keep things fun and fair to discourage quitting and help fill the server!
-Try to avoid attacking their main base until 6v6
-Try to avoid Fade/Onos and JP/Exo until 6v6
Above all have fun!"
After all those are the basic seeding rules most people in this community seem to agree on. (at least from what I've witnessed)
Wait what? does having high elo make you get shuffled to Alien more often or something?
If so that would explain a helluva lot. lol
https://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/140604/remove-hide-elo/p1 shows this comment and more:
A relevant comment from this thread https://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/comment/2317540#Comment_2317540:
and.... my thoughts on the matter.
Nope. Your hive skill has no direct meaning on what team you will be put on. It does try to make teams even though and high skill players tend to prefer marines. If there are already high skill players on marines, it will try to move as few people as possible to the other team. The easiest way to do that is to take the highest skilled player. Santa is quite skilled.
People often complain about "stack since the beginning" when the stack was the other way around 2 minutes ago, or it happened just after the team lost the mapcontrol/most crucial fight and ppl left because they don't wait for others to concede and leave..
I do feel like displaying it is helpful in some cases. It's useful to be able to say "these teams feel imbalanced to me, are they?" and be able to check. And then be able to ask certain players to switch to even things out if necessary.
It might be worth representing the public face of the number as some sort of ranking:
2,200 to 2,399 = Silver, 1 Star
4,800 to 4,999 = Shadow, 4 Star
600 to 799 = Recruit, 3 Star
etc.
That way everyone will be obsessing over their "league" or "ranking" or whatever instead of their number. I don't think it would fundamentally change anything.
For example, these are the skill bracket. Open the image separately to zoom in enough to read it.
The real solution is to hide the hive skill values and implement a real progression system. This won't happen though because people would throw a fit if they couldn't see their hive skills anymore, and UWE is years away from beginning to work on their progression system
It doesn't help that there's a nebulous "Level" system that literally doesn't do anything except increase numbers.
Possibly, but I think if people didn't see it changing every game maybe they wouldn't obsess about the outcome of every game.
On the other hand, plenty of people will stop playing if their games happen in a vacuum.
Basically, you can't win.
Its just amazing that we have to say "press m and vote shuffle" before EVERY roundstart like an mantra for 5 years now.
This would also fix these boring endless shuffle votes each rounds, cause some people dont wanna play one side.
Or autoshuffle if the skill difference is over 200.
Only hiding the hive score wont solve anything and will end in one sided rofl-stomps.
- @MoFo1, 2018
People come with varying degrees of competitive edge, I think it's simple as that. Some MUST WIN, even when there is absolutely nothing of value at stake - going to embarrassing lengths to do so. These people won't be upset over having an advantage, as they tie their ego and reputation to whether they win or lose. Egos, even behind the veil of anonymity, are sensitive. Thus, their only course of action to preserve their ego is to win at all costs. You can't change the thought processes and values that reside in these people's heads.
What you can do is recognize that it's fucking video game and move on. There are far more important things to spend your energy worrying about in this world.
I think that would solve a lot of problems. Individual hive scores aren’t shown for very long, why should the average still be shown?
Often times when someone joins the server there’s only a playable slot available on a single team. Does this sometimes shift the balance? Of course. Does this sometimes increase or decrease the hive score average between teams? Yes.
But I would argue that the majority of the time when leavers and joiners create an imbalanced hive score and the higher scored team wins the game was usually already lost for the lower skilled team by the time the higher skilled players joined the opposing team. And again, usually they have no choice. It’s not fair to tell them to leave, sit it out, or wait.
I can’t be the only one tired of seeing every loss blamed on what the hive scores were at the end of the game. They’re useful to sort the teams. They’re useful for knowing when to reshuffle. Outside of that... well you see my point.
I’m also equally as frustrated with people blaming hive score when truth be told it’s their own team’s lack of communication and teamwork, especially when they usually don’t speak up at all. But that’s beside the point.
I'm also tired of people always blaming hive for every loss, but having the average shown can sometimes be useful late game. For instance say Aliens get pushed back to one hive and one res node, and the teams look like this
Marines - Avg 2700
Aliens - Avg 1100
Plenty of reason to justify conceding that game to start a new one. Better to start a new game with even teams than continue with such lopsided teams. After all that would just result in Aliens being kill farmed until Marines finally decide to end it (and then people leave when the game ends and the server dies)
On the other hand if the teams look like this
Marines - Avg 2200
Aliens - Avg 2400
There's an argument to not concede and try to mount a comeback...
Wouldn't it be better to do as @Handschuh suggested and show what the hive scores were throughout the game at the end stat screen? It would make for a nice 3rd graph alongside the res and kill graphs. (and I also agree we should have stats tracking welding time, among many other things lol)
Then hive scores could only be blamed when they were actually a prime factor in the outcome. If we had stats and people started blaming hive you could point to the stats to shut them up. Additionally just being able to see when the hive score changed would likely minimize how often people blame hive. (since they could see for themselves when it would or wouldn't have mattered)
It should be possible to make associations.. because I see ppl actually calling that out ( lost rt's) who are new to the game - and that is good..
but about weldingtime it would be important to distinguish between welding marines and buildings.
(Like accuracy between onos or without it - since welding every rt to 100% isn't as important than laning)
I posted this back in 2016
https://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/145653/build-310-is-now-live-on-steam-natural-selection-2/p4
LOL @ MOFOLOLOL
sdsdfd
@moultano
Someone did respond in that thread but it was not a very good reasoning as to why i should even start to be happy with it "we already record some of these stats" lol...
I mean % of time welded can be abused very easily in regards to that, rookies spend alot of time welding structures in main base but when they leave the base they never pull them out to weld other players or res towers, you should be getting hive skill points simply for defending resource towers, somehow you need a metric for player moved towards the vicinity of a resource tower being attacked and defended it, sort of like the steam achievement for protecting a resource tower, but in this case it's your hive skill going up by defending.
btw the code exists for tracking entity/model/player statistics and now that we have 64 bit perhaps we could get an upgrade in the stats department including maybe an upgraded demo system since they tie into the same system
I remember when UWE was going to de-emphasize hive skill. (I'm going to hope and assume there's some mention of that in those threads; I'm too lazy to look in there.)
UWE has plans in their road map for a player progression system, more stat collection, and a competitive ranking. Who knows when or if they will get to those. UWE said they would do a new hive website too, since the old hive website was not compatible with the new database.
They may be old threads but we repeat the same conversations here year after year.
I'm more keen on getting the server browser ping display "fixed" for higher latency players rather than seeing eveyrthing as red. I guess the equivalent would be entering a rookie server only to see that everyone has 1 bronze star because everyone is under a set hive score value.
I actually made a mod that did that but because of UI changes and incompatability I'm too lazy to fix it.
By all means volunteer if you want:
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=858827330